Why so much change?

captclazorus · February 2014

It began with the Klingons and the Romulans. TNG and the movies revamped their foreheads and they wrote it into the storyline. In Enterprise they redid the Andorians and the Tellarites. In the reboot, they changed the Caitians and they created fifty new species.
Actually... they didn't necessarily revamp the Caitians. Recall a certain seen from the Final Frontier a certain less hairy cattish woman was dancing on a table. She later fell into a tank of water I believe. So technically if you connect the two then they didn't change up the Caitians. Perhaps they simply have a hairless breed!
But anyway the point still stands. If they want a cool looking new species, they should create it instead of revamping an old one. Or create a convincing story like they did with the Klingons.
Just thinking out loud.

stormstryke · February 2014

Klingons and Romulans really had to do with budget of TOS. But they had such a history in the lore that the writers wanted them to still be relevant in TNG-era and they didn't have the budget problems of TOS. Also the TOS movies didn't have the TV show budget issues.

I get what you're saying but we can't just throw the Klingons and Romulans away. And the TOS versions were kind of not as alien looking.

And a Caitan was an Admiral in a movie.

catstarsto · February 2014

stormstryke2 wrote: »

Klingons and Romulans really had to do with budget of TOS. But they had such a history in the lore that the writers wanted them to still be relevant in TNG-era and they didn't have the budget problems of TOS. Also the TOS movies didn't have the TV show budget issues.

I get what you're saying but we can't just throw the Klingons and Romulans away. And the TOS versions were kind of not as alien looking.

And a Caitan was an Admiral in a movie.

Cat Trek 3: The Search for Spot =^.^=

I think they should add in the species from my cat universe, cats that have evolved (evolution is real in the franchise!) picture house cats that walk upright and wear the TOS shirt. Their paws wrap around the tools and weapons they use

http://catstarsto.deviantart.com/art/NOMulans-join-United-Federation-of-Cats-431438080
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6xoH967aC00/S_BxkL_B-8I/AAAAAAAAYMw/v6H-CImUzPw/s1600/cat062.jpg

...picture it, an entire universe of cats no matter the faction. NOMulans, Vulcats, Nyandorians, etc. They all eventually join the United Federation of Cats, young cats from earth (Mewmans) can join Cat Fleet and begin a career of exploration, pawing at new things they come across on their journey. Then taking on their greatest longtime enemy, the Kittons with their infamous Cat-of-Prey star ships, but they excel best on ground combat using their signature weapon, the Cat-leth.

Brandons badge =/\= Cat Fleets Badge =^.^=

cmdrscarlet · February 2014

Maybe its a technology thing ... the make-up of the 60s has improved a lot in both application, technique and even product. Then there is the budget - more $ = more ... more.

Besides, it may also be about "vision". I mean, why change Superman's suit? or Batman's for that matter. Good gravy ... the Batmobile has changed more than the suit!

Meh. I like changes.

captclazorus · February 2014

stormstryke2 wrote: »

Klingons and Romulans really had to do with budget of TOS. But they had such a history in the lore that the writers wanted them to still be relevant in TNG-era and they didn't have the budget problems of TOS. Also the TOS movies didn't have the TV show budget issues.

I get what you're saying but we can't just throw the Klingons and Romulans away. And the TOS versions were kind of not as alien looking.

And a Caitan was an Admiral in a movie.

Yes, I understand that. The Klingons and the Romulans certainly shouldn't be trashed. Though I would like an explanation to those cranial V's.

stormstryke · February 2014

The V's might be because after all that time, they are not 100% Vulcan and there was race-mixing with another race. /shrug Or it could have something to do with the planet Romulus.

But funny but I will have to watch again, but did Nero or his followers have the V's in JJ's movie? They came from the prime universe after all. I just don't remember them having the V's now that you mention it.

steamwright · February 2014

captclazorus wrote: »

Yes, I understand that. The Klingons and the Romulans certainly shouldn't be trashed. Though I would like an explanation to those cranial V's.

I wondered about the TNG Romulan forehead as well. Then I realized that we have similar examples in our own biology. Environment and isolation result in certain dominant traits. I'm caucasian. They say our ancestral environment, with its reduced sunlight, probably was more adaptable to people with less melanin in our skin, so more sunlight could be absorbed. I've heard of isolated tribes that, archaeological evidence suggest, become pygmy in size over generations of in that isolation. My neighborhood has had a host of Hispanic immigrants these past 10 years. Most of them are of uniform height. Its rather startling when you come from a background where there are wide varieties in height. I'm sure there are many other examples.

So with the Romulans, it would be quite possible for CBS to merge TOS and TNG by saying there are V-ridged Romulans and there are smooth-forehead Romulans. The old trait was dominant, until isolation resulted in the new trait.

kojirohellfire · February 2014

stormstryke2 wrote: »

The V's might be because after all that time, they are not 100% Vulcan and there was race-mixing with another race. /shrug Or it could have something to do with the planet Romulus.

But funny but I will have to watch again, but did Nero or his followers have the V's in JJ's movie? They came from the prime universe after all. I just don't remember them having the V's now that you mention it.

No, they didn't. They all had smooth heads, as do all the Romulans from The Undiscovered Country (which was filmed while TNG was on television), and during "Unification," Spock was able to walk among the Romulans without anyone raising a brow at his smooth head. There was also a Romulan spy in TNG with a smooth brow (T'Pel).

So it would seem that both V-crested Romulans and smooth-headed Romulans exist, possibly much like the genetic variation we experience in our own species.

starkaos · February 2014

IMO the Caitians in the JJ Universe and Khan being British is evidence that the JJ Universe is a parallel universe and not an alternate timeline. If it was an alternate timeline, then Khan would be Indian and Caitians would be furry in the JJ Universe since the alternate timeline was created after those events happened.

grylak · February 2014

But how many Romulans did we actually see in TOS? That showed their foreheads (centurion helmets covered it, just checked), 2 in Balance of Terror, the Romulan commander in Enterprise Incident (maybe one or two of her crew) and the Romulan ambassador in STVI. It's very possible that Romulus in TOS time had flat and ridged heads, with ridged being the dominant gene type (why we saw so many of them in TNG era) but smooth heads just happened to be those we saw not with any helmets in TOS. Nero proved smooth Romulans exist in TNG era, and as mentioned, Spock didn't raise suspicion. Also of note, Sela had no ridges.

So it's possible to say ridges and none ridges in Romulans are the same as caucasion, asian and so on on Earth. Some of those centurions in Balance of Terror could have been ridged.

Same with the apparant redesign of caitians. They're just a genetic subset of the overall species.

jstarsmore · February 2014

Klingon cranial ridges were explained off in "Trials and Tribble-ations" by Worf as "we don't talk about it to outsiders..."

Enterprise explained it off as the Klingons attempting to create Augments (like Khan) and failing, and all the smooth-forehead Klingons were basically genetic defects from this mutation.

captclazorus · February 2014

starkaos wrote: »

IMO the Caitians in the JJ Universe and Khan being British is evidence that the JJ Universe is a parallel universe and not an alternate timeline. If it was an alternate timeline, then Khan would be Indian and Caitians would be furry in the JJ Universe since the alternate timeline was created after those events happened.

Do recall that after Kirk there are several predestination paradoxes that supported the flow of the timeline. These were supported from the events that happened in the original future, which was changed in this future. So what I'm trying to say is when the JJ TNG goes back in time to 2063 to save Earth from Borg, assuming they do, they will, no doubt influence the timeline to be different. As will the other predestination paradoxes. Assuming Kirk of this new timeline goes back in time and falls in love with Edith Keeler, he would add the alteration's effects to that part of the timeline. That may contribute to Khan being British, even though a guy from jolly old England being named Khan Noonien Singh doesn't make much sense. Khan said his people were created to stop war in the Abramsverse. In the original timeline, they started it. Perhaps this whole Edith Keeler incident caused another war, case remaining the same if Kirk doesn't go back in time to cause her death, which is what he did overall.
If you couldn't tell, I love Temporal Mechanics.
As for the hairless Caitians...
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nimbus_III_inhabitants
I believe that there is enough room to speculate this Felinoid is a hairless Caitian.

artan42 · February 2014

captclazorus wrote: »

Actually... they didn't necessarily revamp the Caitians. Recall a certain seen from the Final Frontier a certain less hairy cattish woman was dancing on a table. She later fell into a tank of water I believe. So technically if you connect the two then they didn't change up the Caitians. Perhaps they simply have a hairless breed!

She also had three TRIBBLE. They weren't named Caitians in the film and as they are nothing like Caitians except having tails, they most likely are not Caitians.

It's just updating for new audiences.

However most have an explanation, the Klingons were affected by the Augment Virus, some had reconstructive surgery such as Kang, others seemed to have not been fully effected such as Chang, others probably went too far with reconstructing such as the TMP Klingons.

Both ridged and non ridged Romulans seem to exist alongside each other, Spock had no ridges whilst living undercover on Romulas, Nero and crew had no ridges in the future.

Andorians and Telarites are a straight up improvement and the ENT Andorians are very close to the TOS / TAS / TOS Films Andorians rather than the shockingly bad TNG ones.

starkaos wrote: »

IMO the Caitians in the JJ Universe and Khan being British is evidence that the JJ Universe is a parallel universe and not an alternate timeline.

Khan is a trained Section 31 operative in the film a little plastic surgery and a new accent isn't beyond the relms of possibility (especially compared to transwarp beaming

).

captclazorus · February 2014

artan42 wrote: »

She also had three TRIBBLE. They weren't named Caitians in the film and as they are nothing like Caitians except having tails, they most likely are not Caitians.

It's just updating for new audiences.

However most have an explanation, the Klingons were affected by the Augment Virus, some had reconstructive surgery such as Kang, others seemed to have not been fully effected such as Chang, others probably went too far with reconstructing such as the TMP Klingons.

Both ridged and non ridged Romulans seem to exist alongside each other, Spock had no ridges whilst living undercover on Romulas, Nero and crew had no ridges in the future.

Andorians and Telarites are a straight up improvement and the ENT Andorians are very close to the TOS / TAS / TOS Films Andorians rather than the shockingly bad TNG ones.

Khan is a trained Section 31 operative in the film a little plastic surgery and a new accent isn't beyond the relms of possibility (especially compared to transwarp beaming ).

It also depends on if your realm of canon that you personally hold to be true includes STO. http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Miral_Paris
According STO, Miral Paris' genetics were used to cure the effects of the Klingon-Augment Virus.
Nero had slight ridges, but they were hard to see with all of the tattoos.

markhawkman · February 2014

TNG had Andorians? :P

steamwright · February 2014

markhawkman wrote: »

TNG had Andorians? :P

Sort of. To the best of my knowledge, the only scene was where Lal used the Holosuite to try on various forms, including an Andorian form. It wasn't very well designed, but it was Andorian, apparently.

If there were Andorians in the background shots of the TNG movies, I'm unaware of them.

artan42 · February 2014

markhawkman wrote: »

TNG had Andorians? :P

Some background shots of them and a green one (Lal in the Holosuite).

tacofangs · February 2014

Ya. . .

carpfisher · February 2014

There really need to be more characters in STO with the iconic Q-Tip hairstyle.

tuskin67 · February 2014

artan42 wrote: »

Khan is a trained Section 31 operative in the film a little plastic surgery and a new accent isn't beyond the relms of possibility (especially compared to transwarp beaming ).

According to the comics, that is exactly what happened. Section 31 also wiped his mind but it came back slowly.

steamwright · February 2014

tuskin67 wrote: »

According to the comics, that is exactly what happened. Section 31 also wiped his mind but it came back slowly.

Which is another thing the JJverse films could have resolved with a very brief exchange.

Kirk: you're called Khan? but you look and sound British.
Khan: Captain, please, you live in this timeline and still don't realize the medical cosmetic possibilities of your intelligence services?

Besides, Britain and India have a long history, for good or bad. Its entirely possible that a British Khan had a single Indian ancestor, whether through traditional families, or through the genetic splicing that created him. The geneticist might have given him the name based on that.

artan42 · February 2014

steamwright wrote: »

Besides, Britain and India have a long history, for good or bad.

More of a history than Mexico and India

.

angrytarg · February 2014

Most changes are made to appeal to a new audience. The catgirls in the JJ film as well as it's "Blingons" are just aliens for a fast paced, flashy, sexy audience that the new movies are aimed at. The changes in TNG were made due to the fact that they finally overcame their budget problems - the Klingons' change was explained by Worf in DS9 which is, as far as I'm concerned - the only "real" explanation. Enterprise did a lot of stuff to explain away why things in the 60s looke different - DS9 accepted it and even played with it in a great episode. Enterprise didn't understand how to do that and failed horribly, delivering a phony explanation that presumably added "depth" to the issue, but in the end was just dumb. Just like the JJverse.

starkaos · February 2014

If the JJ Universe is in a parallel universe and not an alternate timeline, then whoever takes over for the next movie can TRIBBLE up whatever they want without affecting the continuity. It doesn't matter if the JJ Borg are a bunch of hippies, the JJ Ocampa are bloodthirsty warriors, the JJ Hirogen are a bunch of pacifists, or the JJ Kazon are the greatest warriors in the galaxy since it is a parallel universe and has absolutely nothing to do with the Prime Universe that we know and love.

Why so much change?

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