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The end of free Torpedos
atticus74
Member Posts: 19 Arc User
What does it cost you to fire a torpedo? NOTHING!
I know this is not going to be popular, but I want to suggest a way that the game can mature in a way that at least elite players csn handle. It's time captains started counting their torpedoes. Min/Maxers have taught us that torpedo boats have respectable dps and good kill ratios. But this relies on an infinite number of torpedoes so I would like to see a finite number of torpedoes in the ships magazine. At a minimum it could restock automatically in sector space. Though spending EC to replenish torpedo stock would not be out of line. At last it would cost something to fire a torpedo.
I know this is not going to be popular, but I want to suggest a way that the game can mature in a way that at least elite players csn handle. It's time captains started counting their torpedoes. Min/Maxers have taught us that torpedo boats have respectable dps and good kill ratios. But this relies on an infinite number of torpedoes so I would like to see a finite number of torpedoes in the ships magazine. At a minimum it could restock automatically in sector space. Though spending EC to replenish torpedo stock would not be out of line. At last it would cost something to fire a torpedo.
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Anyone who min/maxes has enough EC to not be bothered with this, you only hit the common/casual player.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
The following bit assumes you could store photon torpedoes in a rack of 10 (two columns of 5 torpedoes each) comfortably in a 3.5 metre tall deck.
I'll stop there, but I highly recommend the entire article.
I think the upshot is that we probably shouldn't worry too much about how many torpedoes are in our ships, because (assuming Starfleet has converted a lot of the modular space on its ships in this time of war) they could carry a lot.
So you want to kill the mechanic these builds rely on? Granted it'd make more sense to have torpedoes work that way, but we'd kill build diversity too. You have an idea to mitigate that?
Its wrong to nerf Torps even further, in PvE they are only so much worth it, in PvP they are barely worth it for the mainstream played. Furthermore, the investment cost of running torps next to energy weapons is already huge, you need another ability extra (HYT/Spread) and you need 6/6 or 9/9 in Projectile Dmg and Specialization next to it.
Stoutes has a good point too, why bother. That will increase the already epicly huge gap between wealthy and poor players even more. Can you at least think before posting some rediculous suggestion?
Seriously go suggest something to make torps really viable again, such as removing their shared 1 second cooldown etc.
Rather suggest FaW being nerfed to smithereens when the next iteration goes live. Nobody wants an unskilled spacebar smash ability that outdps'es cannons, scatter, etc. (Well ok a few players that love stomping senseless NPC's in STF's and jerk on the fact that they can put out 30/50k dps, no im not jealous, my personal record is 43K
Besides, infinite torpedoes is a canon concept. Haven't you ever watched Voyager? :P
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
We know photon torpedoes are physical objects that are carried... the same holds about Quantum and Chroniton, we see both in series/movies...
But what about plasma torps? Is there a physical plasma torpedo? Or is it something generated in the launcher? It being PLASMA I would guess the latter but... I know they talk about 7000 in a DS9 episode but are those objects, power packs to generate them...?
And then we get into the less cannonically explained kinetic weapons... who knows about those?
So i would say this is a non-starter from that point of view?
I just gotta love how the above poster has cried about FAW in 4 different unrelated threads and started his own Nerf thread about it also. We get it... your an Escort cannon pilot and you dont like anything that does better than your 4DHC/3 Turret build. As the game continues to change your going to have to learn to adapt. Sorry. But spamming every thread you can find on the forums will not change anything. But your tears are kind of amusing.
So count them.
When you reach a number you feel is how many you could have fired...
...don't fire any more of them.
Tada!
There should also be a cap on how many you can fire at once. Take the Omega torp for example. It can only fire 5 before it has to reload. This should be the norm for torpedoes. It takes time for the magazine to load those torpedoes onto the launcher. Also, grant the hull a 75% natural resistance to energy weapons so that energy isn't dominant over kinetic. Limit certain launcher types to certain ships. It wouldn't make sense for a little class 8 shuttle to carry tricobalt launchers nor would it make sense that any ship could fire any torpedo type. Like the Defiant, for instance. That would carry photons and quatums most likely. A larger vessel (like long range explorers and battle cruisers) would be able to install tricobalt launchers or other heavy launchers.
The day PWE makes us pay for ammo too, is when I load the very game itself into a torpedo tube, and launch it out into space!
Tl;dr: NO!
I always assumed it was siphoned off of propulsion/power generation units. So, "limited" in the same way warp/impulse power is limited, and that "fuel" is obtainable everywhere.
Of course nowadays cruisers don't really need the help, they're in a good place as it is.
In addition there are some major flaws with the games.mechanics vs canon. In canon if the shield got.weak enough torp would.push right through to the hull - best battle screen for this is the last one in undiscovered country. In Sto shield give the same resist at 1% that they do at 100%, it's totally stupid. Also if you are fast enough you can outrun torps in this game. Also stupid. As a torp boat captain I see it all the time and.it's not just outrunning the animation.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Limit torpedo ammo? Maybe.
But then torps would have to be boosted, or rather energy weapons slightly nerfed. Like reduced energy weapon damage on hull, similar to reduced torp damage to shields.
Rework torpedo spread to not launch a ridiculous number of torpedoes? Yes please.
That no way diminishes the argument that it makes no sense for a ship to have endless torpedoes. Even if you wanted to argue that the ship replicates a working torpedo on an as needed basis, this is fiction, the replicators consume energy and this consumption is not reflected. There is an opportunity to increase the challenge level here and I think Elite players are up for it.
There are a lot of things in sto that are far law's of physics that are more important in my opinion that making PVP harder to regular players.
( ex: danube shuttle using tractor beam and stopping a vo'quv ???? )
Best thing ,in my opinion, it would be to make a poll among PVP players and (in)validate your proposal
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
But it's okay to have an endless supply of respawns?
It's a game. :cool:
Giving an ammo count to torpedoes will basically eliminate them from most builds. They are already rare enough as is, but if you want them gone completely, please, continue along this line of thought.
It is a game, but it is a game based on an existing work. It is a trivial thing to implement in the game. And what mechanic would you replace the infinite respawns with if they were considered objectionable?
You make it sound like there's no way to implement it when it's quite plain that other changes, regardless of an ammo limit, need to be made. I submit the following as potential practical changes:
1. Grant the hull a natural 75% resistance against energy. This would eliminate the energy weapon as the universal damage dealer.
2. Add dedicated torpedo slots to represent the launchers that are integrated into every ship. These slots would be where the torpedo ammo is placed, much like a device.
3. Increase the potency of torpedoes. A torpedo to bare hull should be devastating. The reasoning should be that they ought to be limited because they're so powerful.
4. Make torpedoes easy to replenish. Make them replenish when at any faction star base in system space instance automatically.
But it is still a game - where countless things have to be ignored because it is a game. It's not a simulation based on a particular series...it is a game.
There are all sorts of trivial stupid things they could implement...doesn't mean they should.
I wouldn't replace the infinite respawns...because it is a game.
Torps are already just about worthless. Why destroy their usefulness?
--Red Annorax
You're trying way too hard to find an excuse to dismiss it. 250 was just an example. You also don't need to have so few that you require a rearm after every mission. You could take an extended tour and run several missions between resupply trips. Don't be so rigid. These are ideas, not a design document submission.
Torpedoes use a matter/antimatter warhead and other materials that can't be replicated. Some materials are just simply too volatile to replicate because they would have a reaction while being replicated and you blow up your armory. According to Star Trek canon, torpedoes can't be replicated. Certain parts have to be made from raw materials that either are found or created by means other than replication.
Making torpedoes ammo-limited isn't going to make them worthless, that has already happened and I've already made suggestions as to how to make them worth having while carrying a limited compliment of them. Nobody is suggesting, certainly not me, that ammo limits is the only change made. It's obvious that they need to be made more useful, but while we're at it, let's add some immersion and challenge to them.
Who said anything about a simulation? I didn't ask for newtonian physics. Putting an ammo limit doesn't make a simulation. Halo uses ammo limits, would you call it a simulation?
You don't like the idea of ammo limits, I get it. That doesn't make them stupid. Just because torpedoes suck as they are, doesn't mean that ammo limits are not a good mechanic. On its own, it makes sense for immersion and challenge. Ammo limits can make the player evaluate how they use their limited supply. Currently, there's little risk in setting torps to auto because they never deplete. Boost damage and making energy less effective against hull would give them much higher utility. The main problem is that energy weapons are effective against both hull and shields, while torps are only effective against hull. This makes torps automatically inferior because energy doesn't have a reciprocal weakness to compensate. It's simple, really, energy weapons need to be nerfed to balance against torpedoes. Or I guess you could say that hull needs to be buffed vs. energy to compensate for the shield's resistance to kinetic.
This is a bad idea; strike that, terrible one. Please, no one ever hire this person as a game designer.