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Best Layout for Avenger Class
jeffrobinson79
Member Posts: 46 Arc User
I just purchased an Avenger class BC, and I wonder what is the best layout for it (weapons, equipment, etc.). If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it.
Post edited by jeffrobinson79 on
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Put the KCB and the antiproton omni-directional array in the back and maybe a turret or torpedo and you're set.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
The Avenger is pretty flexible in terms of weapon layout since it's one of the only Fed ships that can mount Dual cannons and use them well, as well as having 5 of them up front.
I've seen Avenger captains with full cannon builds, all beam arrays, and a mix of both.
Personally I go for 4 Dual Beam Banks up front with a torpedo taking the fifth slot. The Kinetic Cutting Beam and Omnidirectional Antiproton Array take the third, while a turret takes the last slot. All are antiproton for damage synergy purposes (except for the torp and cutting beam).
But there's no single BEST layout ever. It depends on your preferred playstyle and resources.
I would suggest trying out both styles to see how you feel. Buy cheap common or green items from the equipment store or the exchange and try things out in PVE. If you feel that you're not comfortable with a particular approach (going heavy on dual cannons in a cruiser requires different movement strategys from the more maneuverable Escorts), switch before you commit your precious dilithium to buying weapons you don't like.
I've got the same setup, but I've been thinking of swapping the third AP turret for the Romulan Experimental Plasma array.
It won't have as much damage synergy and can't fire into my forward arc, but at least it'll benefit from FAW (Important when playing all these swarmer-heavy dyson missions) and also gain damage when I equip the Hyper-Torpedo for the 2-3pc bonuses, and it doesn't consume extra power. What do you think?
Inertia is irrelevant. Sliding is just fine as long as you can keep dhcs in arc. Base turn rate may be only 9, but with strategic manuvering it's up to 12, before any rcs. You can consider that its base turn rate since escorts don't have these commands.
This is all just my opinion based on my experiments with various load outs for this ship. Other players here with much more experience than I might have different opinions and you ought to review their opinions as well. However, that being said, I'll gladly share mine.
Forward: (Dyson) Photon Torpedo. 2 x Dual Beam banks. 2 x Beam Arrays
Rear: Borg cutting beam, 2 x Beam Arrays.
Rational: The idea is to build a ship that always has weapons up on an enemy, much like a cruiser, but to also take advantage of the Avenger's 5 forward weapons and higher turn rate that most cruisers do not have. Furthermore, I do not have the all-powerful Marion duty officer, so keeping weapon power up is still an issue. (Someone here with more experience and a Marion doff can correct me on that last part...)
Plasmonic Leech is a great console to get, and helps with the power levels and is certainly a lot cheaper than Marion. That combined with the weapon layout means that I do not have to focus engineering bridge officers on power transfers to weapons, and can focus on more defensive abilities. (Weapon batteries are still highly useful though.)
I would also recommend getting one more borg piece (preferably the console) to take advantage of the set bonus, as well as one more Dyson piece as well for the same reason. Otherwise, you can go with the Borg Plasma torpedo. Note that including a torpedo is not mandatory, and you can easily put another beam weapon (or even a cannon) there instead.
If you approach this ship as if it is a slow turning escort and load it with dual heavy cannons and turrets, you will find that the escorts available are significantly better at doing that role. They turn better, and hit a lot harder. You will be disappointed.
The Avenger is NOT an escort. It is a tactically focused cruiser. But it is still a cruiser.
A.) An Aux2Bat Boat
or
B.) A Dragon Boat.
Here's a build for starting out, it'll be much cheaper to put together. This is the Dragon.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=avengerpolaron21309_0
It uses Phased Polarons, which aren't exactly cheap but are quite good. It also uses Rep gear, so I'd just put Neutroniums in the rep gear spots until you can get the rep stuff. Don't skimp on the Plasmonic Leech... the console is so good, there's no reason not to pack it.
Here's the Fleet Avenger build. This is a fully loaded Aux2Bat monstrosity... think of it as something to work towards.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=antiprotonavenger2134234_0
You'll also want two of the Romulan tactical officers from the fleet store with Superior Operative, for the bonus crit chance.
If you just want a straight upgrade to the first avenger linked, simply upgrade to the Mark XII Jem'Hadar and get the Tachyokinetic Converter.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Would be all good points if beams weren't superior...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Between the mission beam and borg beam, you can put together an ap dbb boat with ships that has 2 rears without wasting rear slots, like andorian escort and raiders. Mind the aggro...
Once that's said, the rest can be safely ignored. You're just pushing your [wrong] biases to OP's detriment.
The traditional broadside setup is actually just fine for an Avenger, especially if you're not the type to park a target in your arc and fire away. And you even gain because you can put up to 5 beams on a single target as you orbit.
You don't put 5, you put 8. Broadside means broadside, not half a broadside. Traditional eng cruisers, including free ones, perform better than avenger in broadside setup. That's the whole point. Again, avenger can fit dhcs, unlike traditional cruisers, for a reason.
Need I remind you that the turn rate of the Avenger is only 9? That's really terrible if you're trying to get DHCs on target. And, you must be relatively stationary to get the most out of your guns. Meanwhile, an Aux2Bat can spin around the target, moving where it needs to go, freely firing all eight of it's weapon systems. If you're going to mount DHCs on the Avenger, do us all a favor and get an escort.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
You're behaving as if you never fight a moving target. That might have been true when the only endgame content was ISE, but the truth is targets won't always be in both your array arcs 100% of the time. Sometimes it's better to be able to put 4-5 beams on a target in your fore arc than 3 when it slips out of your rear arc's cone.
And besides, while the Avenger's roots in KDF Battlecruiser philosophy make sure it can perform well with DHCs, those types of ships require different movement strategies and tactics to deal with their low turn and high inertia. Much different from the way a person lilke the OP (who was used to escorts) might be familiar with.
DHCs
DBBs
all-BAs
I've loaded it out with the following boff setups:
FAW spammer
TS3 mega volley-er
romplas THY3-er (with CD doffs, naturally)
LT uni as TAC
LT uni as ENG
LT uni as SCI
A2Bat setup
minimal healing with maximum damage
balanced damage/attack
sci-oriented TBR+sciteam+tss
I would say just because of how the game works my FAW spammer was doing the most damage with 10k DPS or more at times. This is comparable to the tac-oriented Oddy I switched from. It was easier to fly, though.
I would say that DBBs work just fine. Running KCB on back and maybe even AP360 means you don't even need to mix DBBs+turrets.
The torp-heavy attacker works but just wasn't my cup of tea. That LtCDR allows for a good torp skill but at the expense of energy weapons.
A2Bat worked well though it killed my aux powers. I ran it for a long while then switched to simple EPT+DCE.
One toon I used the cloak console right away, the other I didn't. I ended up putting it on the other after a while. It's just useful. Alpha strikes bonus (when you decloak) plus flying past gates without being attacked, sneaking past defenders in Breach Elite to rescue ships, etc. Even though it's not a BC it is VERY useful. It simply ought to be a device and not a console. Don't use the VATAs console. I consider it TRIBBLE.
Overall they're all valid setups. They can all be quite effective. It is really going to depend on your playstyle and preferences. Unless you're trying to min/max (or whatever the term is) and eek out every last iota of DPS -- then it's FAW spamming and you can do that in many other ships with stronger hulls.
As for me? My tac moved on to a different ship just recently. I got bored. My ENG is having fun though. I have a bit of a character persona going and it's built off a polaron-based ship using JH set and captured technology. I'm having a lot of fun with CSV+CRF in all-cannons setup running the LT as TAC and using my ENG heals to give me a bit more durability. In short I'm running it like a slightly tanky escort. I'm not getting as much DPS as my tac in the beam boat did, but I'm having more fun!
For every beam faw 10k dps parser log someone cites, I can show you a 100k dps log of dhc parked in front of a vesta grav well cycling sv on mirror invasion map. Both proves little.
As far as real dps is concerned, you won't always have dozens of targets to spam on, either with fire at will or scatter volley. And frankly, burning shields of numerous rats with faw produce lots of numbers, without killing much.
Compare completion times for either an elite cube kill or a spawn of spheres out of gate, and you'll find that dhc times are consistently shorter.
You show me one instance of a cannon boat doing 100k dps...not just for a run but during one of your scenarios...
Why am I arguing with you... you don't care that ise is the standard.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
There is no best layout for a person. There is a best layout for a boat - it's usually what the boat is designed around. Looking at the 5/3 weapon layout, 12 turn rate with command before rcs, low eng boffs, high tac boffs, and compare this modified bc to real cruisers. It should be clear at a glance.
Thing is, the person is the one who flies the boat. The person makes different decisions than the AI.
Screams beamboat anchor ship (in pvp) to me.
Plenty of firepower, lots of agility, pure madness incarnate.
Love my avenger
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
The point is, all traditional cruisers on tier 5, including free ones, can perform better as a beamboat anchor than avenger.
If you fit avenger as beamboat anchor, you're in the wrong boat.
So your boat will be stronger then rylan's, in every way possible eh?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Link your cannon avenger, please. I'd like to see it.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel