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Proposed improvements to Head "Humanoid 2" and Complexion "Standard 02" (Asian face)
crypticjoejing
Member Posts: 211 Cryptic Developer
Hello friends,
Got something (I think) is exciting to share with you.
Soooo...as some of you may or may not have figured out, the Head Type "Humanoid 2" and Complexion "Standard 02" were actually intended to allow for Asian facial characteristics.
Internally the assets are called Asian, but as you all know, the assets are available for aliens and not bound by skin tone. Also many combinations between head shape and textures are permitted. As intended, all of this serves to allow for much variety and options when making your characters.
Anyway, the current assets are arguably not that appealing. For reference, this is the head type and complexion together: http://imgur.com/ibucSPD
I'm currently sitting on what I feel to be a significant improvement, but we are well aware how attached players get to their characters so it's important that the changes are in fact perceived as an improvement.
We'd like to check in to Tribble and see how it feels for everyone, but wanted to gauge response and interest here before doing so.
Here is an example of the proposed before and after: http://imgur.com/lSfldkR
And finally, bear in mind this head shape and complexion could be mixed and matched with the other head shapes and complexions exactly the same as before. To give an idea of before and after for different combos using somewhat extreme examples with blond hair and black hair: http://imgur.com/D0Q1UkP
Hope it's easy enough to understand and I hope you like the improvements as much as we do.
Got something (I think) is exciting to share with you.
Soooo...as some of you may or may not have figured out, the Head Type "Humanoid 2" and Complexion "Standard 02" were actually intended to allow for Asian facial characteristics.
Internally the assets are called Asian, but as you all know, the assets are available for aliens and not bound by skin tone. Also many combinations between head shape and textures are permitted. As intended, all of this serves to allow for much variety and options when making your characters.
Anyway, the current assets are arguably not that appealing. For reference, this is the head type and complexion together: http://imgur.com/ibucSPD
I'm currently sitting on what I feel to be a significant improvement, but we are well aware how attached players get to their characters so it's important that the changes are in fact perceived as an improvement.
We'd like to check in to Tribble and see how it feels for everyone, but wanted to gauge response and interest here before doing so.
Here is an example of the proposed before and after: http://imgur.com/lSfldkR
And finally, bear in mind this head shape and complexion could be mixed and matched with the other head shapes and complexions exactly the same as before. To give an idea of before and after for different combos using somewhat extreme examples with blond hair and black hair: http://imgur.com/D0Q1UkP
Hope it's easy enough to understand and I hope you like the improvements as much as we do.
Post edited by crypticjoejing on
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Comments
...I don't know much about any of the other differences, but the eyes do look like they've been improved.
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I do wonder though if it would be an option to make these changes into a new head type and leave the existing one alone so everyone can be happy.
These are my thoughts on the issue as well. While I like them some of the combos on the right side of the collection photo differ quite significantly.
^ This +9,000!!!
I respect your attempt to be up front and give warning of proposed changes, I think you're "doing it right", and I think the new options do look better, but...
Why fix something that some people might not find broken?
It seems to me it would be better to add these updates as a third option (Humanoid 3 and Standard 03).
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Personally I quite like the proposed changes, however I'd want to see how they affect my toons and boffs first before giving it a yay or nay.
That said, I think the eyes need a bit more slant, but that's just me. Still not getting much of an asian vibe here.
If you want to add an aditional face model, that's cool- but I spent a long time getting my character's face *just right*, and she uses this face model. I'd be VERY upset to see the standing model or complexion pulled out from under me.
Also consider, since you have Caucasoid and Mongoloid head types, adding a proper Negroid head type. Y'know, for balance and fairness.
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And yes, I have spent two years in Korea. There IS a difference between the different ethnicities. When you live there for a while, you start to notice the subtle differences (beyond the cultural nuances).
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There is no good reason to remove the old version from the game. More choices are fine, fewer is not. Let us not repeat the same mistake that came when the old Gorn heads got pulled.
However, from the perspective of a player who may have crafted their character precisely the way they wanted using this model/complexion your improvement would be seen as a change and not necessarily for the better.
The best option, if available, would be to add this as an additional model/complexion rather than replacing what is already in place. I would say the same for the improved female body models. Unless, as has been mentioned, there is a technical reason I would think adding would be a better choice than replacing.
Not all Asian people have round noses. Not all Caucasians have sharp noses.
Right now, Humanoid 2 works well for African face types because of the rounded nose but also some of Germanic ancestry.
If I had to make Kirk, Picard, or Sisko in game, I'd use the type 2 head because of the tighter skin around the eyes and, in Shatner and Brooks' case, the rounded nose. Small eyes on a Humanoid 1 head wouldn't do the job. (And a Patrick Stewart face would probably use Humanoid 2 eyes and a Humanoid 1 nose.)
I'll see if I can't find some old costume save files for benchmarks, then load up Tribble and compare...
I feel the same way. The older versions look better to me. The new type 2 looks like someone who got unnecessary, botched blepharoplasty.
As someone else has mentioned: why not keep both. Not only would it make people happy who like the old versions better, without hurting those who prefer the new ones, it'd also give us a little bit more variety to characters who already look too close to each other.
4 complexions are always better than two, especially when it means not pissing off some of your customers.
Thanks for all the comments - figured this thread would generate some attention.
First for clarification...the new assets have *not* been introduced to tribble yet.
As for an African head...can't comment on that yet
But for the head and texture on this thread, the *BIGGEST* reason to replace the old one is it automatically improves the dozens or even hundred or so NPC's that are using the current head. Boom, pretty widespread improvement to the visuals of the STO game.
THAT ABOVE IS THE PRIMARY REASON to replace the existing assets.
However, a side effect that is a bit more controversial as proven in this thread, is it also automatically "improves" player characters that use that model and/or texture as well. We expected that may not be viewed as an improvement, which is why we are posting here to test the waters.
At the risk of sparking a game and marketing philosophy debate...
*Personally* (not necessarily a reflection of Cryptic's view) I don't think "more is always better".
Specifically, bloating character creation with options isn't necessarily an improvement.
Metaphorically, if you're adding "more" to a steak dinner, and "more" turns out to be TRIBBLE, more don't make it better. Similarly, adding ice cream sprinkles to TRIBBLE ain't gonna help much either. :P
My philosophy is more like, "a lot of *good* stuff is always better".
That said, I would prefer a healthy selection of assets that encourage and enable players (and devs) to *easily* and *intentionally* make appealing characters (and "appealing" doesn't always mean beautiful as I discuss later). Too many arguably unnecessary variables can actually make it harder to find the ones that work well together.
That way, the next time any of you make a new character, or edit a BOFF...or a brand new player starts STO for the first time...you pop into character create and are excited about all the cool, great looking options and *don't* think to yourself "ew, how can I fix this and make it look better?"
Honestly (again, my own opinion) I think the old model and texture at default settings look bad. By "bad", I know not all characters should look handsome or beautiful. Obviously, many characters should look aged, worn, ugly, etc. In fact, I love making those characters - they have a ton of personality. But the features that achieve that image should look intentional.
The assets in question here, to me, look unpolished and unfinished. Even with spending a good chunk of time of facial bone scaling, adding make-up, etc - at most, only acceptable results are achieved. The only way I'd use that model and texture would be for a tired old worn background civilian NPC, definitely not for one of my hero captains, BOFF's, or primary contacts. The male version is even worse, but that's a topic for another time.
And yes...I know all too well that plenty of NPC's and contacts are already using those assets - it reflects on the art of STO and I think it could be better. So I would rather purge the old assets. Make many characters instantly better, and make it easier to make good looking characters moving forward.
Finally, I close with the typical political comment: art is subjective. So you are free to disagree with me and you're more than welcome to explain how perfect the existing assets are.
Again, that's why we posted here with examples - to gauge the response. Our goal is to ensure players view the the art as a whole in Star Trek positively.
Thanks for the awesome communication. I definitely agree, replacing mediocre/bad things with better/good ones serves games and especially STO (which still has many loose ends and unfinished construction sites) much better than adding them on top.
A general remark an faces in STO: There are WAYYYY too many doppelgaengers in the game. The standard male face type pops up so incredibly often. Romulan, Humans, Vulcans, Andorians... You name it... hundreds of NPCs all over the game are the twin of these guys:
just to name a few...
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absolutely agree! That's something I've been making lots of noise and small steps to improve since coming onboard STO. You should see some evidence of that in upcoming episodes. Def want to retroactively address old characters over time too.
The differences are subtle, but dramatic.
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