test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Fleet brel vs fleet norgh
jagdhippies
Member Posts: 676 Arc User
Just curious to see what the common preference is for a fleet BOP? The brel has a 10th console, the norgh has an additional boff skill and the third one is too ugly for me to consider.
Flying an engineer that is skilled towards energy damage.
Flying an engineer that is skilled towards energy damage.
My carrier is more powerful than your gal-dread
Post edited by jagdhippies on
0
Comments
Either you want the enhanced battlecloak or not. If you want it, B'rel is your only option.
Otherwise, Fleet Norgh. It's ludicrous that they charge you 4 fleet modules and require high-tier shipyards to get the fleet Hohsus BoP with JUST a single console more. A console doesn't make that kind of difference.
A Boff slot does. Get the Norgh. That boff slot allows more defensive capability, more healing, or even more offense depending how you set it up. Maybe you had a perfectly good build before, but you now can slot eject warp plasma and make it even BETTER (just one example).
EDIT: IMO the Fleet Norgh is the best BoP in the game. Second only to the Breen Plek Bresh raider. Only problem is it doesn't have a battlecloak. If it did, it'd be the raider for which KDF have been waiting a very long time.
The Fleet B'rel is an odd duck. The only real thing it has going for it besides the universal stations is the enhanced battle cloak. The T'varo makes better use of the ebc for a straight damage torp boat or bomber. The common wisdom is to make it a sci heavy torp boat. It does better than most torp boats with this layout but that is selling it short. A little creativity with the B'rel can turn it into a very tough little ship. You can debuff, heal, cc, and do decent damage with it from the same hull while on the fly.
Both ships are outclassed in any one specific area but no ships are as versatile in all areas. This can be done on demand thanks to the bc or ebc. Mixing in or going straight dbbs will also add some utility. The fleet norgh also makes the best alpha striker around.
Thissler has shown the way http://thissler.com/
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=nerdofplay_5554
If you are worried about aux levels, you can either time your cycles (very easy) or use an aux batt if its an emergency (super easy).
The dbbs do less than a dhc build would on paper but in practice you are doing more damage as you can engage from greater range much more effectively. This really allows you to take advantage of the dbb's greater arc and less range degradation.
I wish it had a 10th console though.
One is an energy weapon specialist the other is a torpedo/science specialist.
If you use energy weapons in a B'rel you're doing it wrong. Its a torpedo boat. Thats what the bloody enhanced cloak is for. Disabling that cloak by firing an energy weapon just makes the B'rel into a ship less capable than the freely available max rank BOP. You can also kit it for science since the cloak works with science abilities as well.
The Norgh is an energy weapon monster. The bridge officer slots and its guns give it a tremendous first strike advantage. If you are not putting full forward guns on this thing you're doing it wrong.
What I like the most... the looks! Hehe... closest you'll get to an x-wing here 8)
The doors, Mister Scott!
Wrong? Sorry, but thats nothing but a load of nonsense. :rolleyes:
The B'rel is an extremely formidable ship using energy weapons, and also the "best" dogfighter as far as BoP's go due to its high base turn rate and small size.
It also has a lot of staying power, and thanks to the enhanced battle cloak can easily withdraw in the middle of a fight and be ready to strike again with renewed vigour in mere moments.
In short, the B'rel is an extremely versitile ship, and by no means a specialist.
After careful consideration, and finding the Ho'Sus to be too squishy, I ultimately decided to go with a fleet Norgh and bought it. I wanted the extra Lt. Commander slot so I can use auxiliary to structural 2 for more survivability. It also looks cooler than the Ho'Sus. Still a bit squishy but not that bad.
Don't care about an enhanced battle cloak, though I do like the appearance of the B'rel. I find if I use a battle cloak while I'm being attacked I get killed too often. I only use the cloak for an ambush. Any attacks on their way to you that are set to hit, will hit you even after you cloak, and with your shields down it goes straight to your hull full force. So for me using a battle cloak to try and save my skin is worthless. I'm better off to just keep attacking so I can do some damage before I'm picking torpedo shrapnel out of my behind.:D
Edit: I also bought the ship in the c-store for the disruptor quad cannons and put them on my fleet Norgh. Is it just me or are those things weak? The stats show it does half the damage of my Mk XI nanite disruptor DHC and the quad has a friggen [Dmg]x4 mod. And to top it off the quads give me -10 engine on top of the -10 weapons while firing.
Fleet Norgh is basically a slightly beefed up Hegh'ta with the formidable extra BOFF slot. That BOFF slot can really let you get creative. Longtime KDF BOP players have relentlessly toyed with their BOP builds, and inevitably you run into this: "Man, what would do if I can get 1 more BOFF slot." If you were one of those guys, the Fleet Norgh is for you.
The B'Rel has been around forever. This was the original, top of the line Torp Boat. The pluses for the B'Rel:
- Enhanced Battle Cloak
- Temporarily drop out of cloak to fire torpedoes. Not an ideal way to be a Torp Boat firing out of cloaks and spamming torpedoes, mind you.
- Drop mines without even temporarily dropping out of cloaks.
- Use majority of SCI & ENG abilities that target others, temporarily drop out of cloak to do so. Nice tactical advantage. Great for support in applying nasty SCI on people or healing your teammates while still being mostly hidden.
- Use all self-healing/repair abilities on yourself while cloaked. This to me was one of the biggest advantages of the B'Rel. Your turnaround from taking nasty damage and getting back to a fight in good condition is stunningly short in a B'Rel. Once you fly the B'Rel alot and go to any other ship that isn't a B'Rel / T'Varo, I promise you, you will miss this ability.
- The most maneuverable ship in the game, and just a tad bit slower than the formidable, OP JHAS (JHAS isn't far behind in turning, either).
For the KDF, the B'Rel Retrofit from the C-Store still dominates this representation of the B'Rel family. Fleet B'Rels are a rarity due to the much lower amount of T5 military shipyards in the KDF. That said, when comparing the B'Rel Retrofit to the Fleet Norgh, the Norgh has less maneuverability but has better hullpoints and shield mod. The Fleet B'Rel, if you're lucky to possess one, has equal hull and shield as the top end Fleet BOPs, retains the handling characteristics of the B'Rel line, same benefits of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, and more importantly, the 10th Console Slot that the Fleet Norgh lacks.
Quad weapons are lackluster, have been that way forever. The funny thing is there's a bunch of Romulan-centric players that think Quads are "Teh Best Evah." Even most Feds disagree on that. And if you see KDF using Quads, take a look at your lottery ticket. Chances are you probably won the lottery the same time as seeing a KDF Quad Disruptor user.
I find it funny that players flying Escorts and such, mount Quads that take Engine Power away when you fire. Speed is a huge amount of survivability for an Escort, and the Quads don't give back enough in return. Oh well.
If you haven't parsed this a hundred times or so, don't bother me with your opinion.
If you haven't done the math on the mods and compared it to the parses, also don't bother me with your opinion.
If I seem a little hardcore on that, I am. Mostly because it becomes tiresome to see people posting "what I think should be as a fact" and dissuading others from what are perfectly good items. Also if you're slamming spacebar so often that the power drain to engines is an issue on an escort with quads, you're doing something wrong. Firing when you shouldn't be would be my guess as to what that wrong thing is.
Also, as a side note, Dmg is the best mod in the game after Acc. Or else why would you have so damn much of it?
Romulan Quads can be used as part of a set bonus, that makes them even better than the other factions. You may want to look into that.
Running cannons as a primary weapon on a BoP isn't very productive. Especially a B'rel. Anyone that wishes to dogfight in a Raider may be better served by a Raptor.
Enhanced Battle Cloak has exactly no relevance once an energy weapon is fired. At that point it becomes the same as any other KDF Battle Cloak.
The tenth console slot on a B'rel is an Engineering slot. The extra Boff slot on a N'orgh is a Lt Cmdr.
Huge difference.
You'll only ever see a B'rel doing something that other BoP's can't when it is run as a Torpedo/Science Bomber. The very instant it fires an energy weapon it becomes just another BoP. Just smaller. Using an Enhanced Battle Cloak as an Enhanced Battle Cloak is what defines both the B'rel and T'varo. Nothing else does.
Using that third Lt Cmdr slot is what defines the N'orgh. Nothing else does.
That said:
Yeah, I do concur about Energy Weapon usage with the B'Rel. The B'Rel performing in that function sort of becomes like other KDF BOPs. But a major difference however is still the ability to heal yourself and recover when the cloak is reapplied, making sure the ship is in pretty good shape in between.
Still, it will be a tad bit more dangerous for the more common B'Rel Retrofit functioning in that traditional BOP style because it is slightly weaker in hull than even the Hegh'ta.
As far as the Fleet B'Rel's questionable ENG Console slot instead of something like SCI or a TAC Console, it's not my ideal thing. However, it DOES give you a 10th console slot to play with, something all the Fleet BOPs have except for the Fleet Norgh. Definitely not the same magnitude of a 2nd LtCdr BOFF station, but it's more room to play with on a BOP.
Maybe romulans think quad cannons are awesome because they have a 2 piece set bonus if equipped on a ship with the [Console - Universal - Focused Singularity Modulator] that comes with the Ar'Kif Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit. Feds and KDF don't have such a bonus for their quad cannons.
To be honest the engine drain isn't really noticeable. Especially with a plasmonic leech console, an embassy flow capacitor console, and max skill points in flow capacitors. (And the Omega Force shield array proc that increases your turn rate for a few seconds) :cool:
Basically this is what I'm going with. I'm slowly working on the engines and deflector. The tac consoles are blank for now until the fleet spire consoles are added to the skill planner. And I don't have the ground set or embassy kit yet, and I haven't started on Dyson rep yet, but I have everything else. http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tordfleetnorghbop_2164
I think that you only get discount for fleet variants of Tier 5 C-Store ships. So since the standard Norgh BoP is lower level, furthermore it's free I don't think that there is a discount on the fleet Norgh.
Yes you can, but only if you buy the Tier 3 Ning'tao that costs 1000 Zen and comes with the Quad Cannons. Buying that one unlocks the Ning'tao skin for the Fleet Norgh.
Well, I'm sure you'll hear a variety of opinions on that one none of which is less valid than the other one.
If you ask me personally, no, I don't think the cannons themselves are worth 1000 Zen. They are very nice while you're leveling and they do have cool looking visuals when they fire, but personally I don't like them draining 10% of engine power. They also have [Dmg]x4 modifier and most of the people will agree that [Acc] modifier is way better than [Dmg], especially in PvP. However, I know people that consider the Quads to be worth it just because of the visuals and the element of coolness.
Personally, I think the Ning'tao skin is worth 1000 Zen if you use the Fleet Norgh - way cooler looking and I perceive the cannons as an added bonus.