test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
How much damage does EPTW give?
dahminus
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Say you were already at 125/125 and dem+marion was running.
Does the 10% provide before weapon power, after weapon power or after all damage mods take affect?
Trying to decide if I can give it up for epte...
Does the 10% provide before weapon power, after weapon power or after all damage mods take affect?
Trying to decide if I can give it up for epte...
Post edited by dahminus on
0
Comments
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
In this video, I show enabling EPTW on Beam Weapons and show how it increases your DPS on each Beam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR4RQjqEEw&list=UUn4zU6WXABPUvmUOpluwbTw&feature=share&index=1
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Much obliged, now to figure out single aux2bat...
Edit: Much apologies. I meant to have "to" in there referring to me. Not an insulting command for you hawk.
I could see a twinge of offense message taken from the original message. Definitely not the intention
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Adjudicator may feel free to correct me, but I believe the order of operations on damage is
weapon damage
* skills
* sets and consoles
* power level
* self effects (e.g. EPTW)
* target effects (e.g. APB)
* critical hits
EPTW also increases your damage output by keeping your power level higher. If you see your power level flicker at all when you fire without EPTW, then the bonus power is helping you on top of the flat buff.
Switch the last two, eh? APB is a damage resistance debuff. Damage resistance is the last modifier applied before the target's health is reduced. Though, since both are multiplicative modifiers - the order really only matters from an intuitive perspective. The target is the last thing that can modify the damage being done to it (even if an outside force is modifying what the target is doing).
Perhaps two "potentially extreme" examples, and anybody feel free to jump in to correct any of it...
DISCLAIMER: CrtD is used for the example. It's not a recommendation. Use the mods best to your particular situation/scenario/build.
Note: No [AMP] below, couldn't remember how it worked off the top of my head - whether it was Base or NotBase. The damage numbers at the end of the initial calculations sport a ~ before them...this represents potential rounding issues that may have arisen during the calculations. They are not "exact" calculations. Given the damage is variable anyway, it's just a rough calculation of what kind of damage to expect.
Acknowledgements: The following would not have been possible for me without info from bareel, queue38, vonamicus, and info provided by devs like bort, hawk, gorn, archon, & crew.
Antiproton Dual Beam Bank Mk XII [CrtD]x3
DBB Base: 130
VR: + (130 * (3 * 0.025)) = 9.75; 139.75
Mk XII: + (130 * (12 * 0.1)) = 156; 295.75
9 Weapon Training: + (130 * (99 * 0.005)) = 64.35; 360.1
9 Energy Weapons: + (130 * (99 * 0.005)) = 64.35; 424.45
TT1 (Full Crew): + (130 * (18 * 0.005)) = 11.7; 436.15
Omega Weapon Training: + (130 * (30 * 0.005)) = 19.5; 455.65
Aux Power Config - Offense (@125 Aux): + (130 * (50 * 0.005)) = 32.5; 488.15
5x UR Vulnerability Exploiter (AP): + (5 * (130 * 0.319)) = 207.35; 695.5
DBB Dmg#1: 695.5
@125 Weapon Power: * (1 + ((125 - 50) * 0.02))) = 2.5; 1738.75
DBB Dmg#2: 1738.75
EPtW1: + (1738.75 * 0.1) = 173.875; 1912.625
APO3: + (1738.75 * 0.25) = 434.6875; 2347.3125
APA3: + (1738.75 * 0.5) = 869.375; 3216.6875
Ambush: + (1738.75 * 0.15) = 260.8125; 3477.5
Obelisk 2pc: + (1738.75 * 0.1) = 173.875; 3651.375
TacFleet3: + (1738.75 * 0.3) = 521.625; 4173
DBB Dmg#3: 4173
BO3: 4173 * 8.46 = 35303.58
DBB Dmg#4: 35303.58
5x Nausicaan (Pirate): + (35303.58 * (5 * 0.015)) = 2647.7685; 37951.3485
DBB Dmg#5: 37951.3485
CrtD Base: 50%
9 Energy Weapon Specialization: +25%; 75%
AP Weapon: +20%; 95%
APA3: +50%; 145%
5x UR Vulnerability Exploiter (AP): + (5 * 8%) = 40%; 185%
[CrtD]x3: + (3 * 20%) = 60%; 245%
Bioneural Infusion: +15%; 260%
Da DBB CRIT!: + (37951.3485 * 2.6) = 98673.5061; ~136624.8546
Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XII [CrtD]x3
Quantum Base: 1503
VR: + (1503 * (3 * 0.025)) = 112.725; 1615.725
Mk XII: + (1503 * (12 * 0.1)) = 1803.6; 3419.325
9 Weapon Training: + (1503 * (99 * 0.005)) = 743.985; 4163.31
9 Projectile Weapons: + (1503 * (99 * 0.005)) = 743.985; 4907.295
TT1 (Full Crew): + (1503 * (18 * 0.005)) = 135.27; 5042.565
Omega Weapon Training: + (1503 * (30 * 0.005)) = 225.45; 5268.015
Aux Power Config - Offense (@125 Aux): + (1503 * (50 * 0.005)) = 375.75; 5643.765
4x UR Vulnerability Exploiter (Quantum): + (4 * (1503 * 0.319)) = 1917.828; 7561.593
KHG 2pc: + (1503 * 0.25) = 375.75; 7937.343
Quantum Dmg#1: 7937.343
APO3: + (7937.343 * 0.25) = 1984.33575; 9921.67875
APA3: + (7937.343 * 0.5) = 3968.6715; 13890.35025
Rombush: + (7937.343 * 0.25) = 1984.33575; 15874.686
T'varo 2pc: + (7937.343 * 0.1) = 793.7343; 16668.4203
TacFleet3: + (7937.343 * 0.3) = 2381.2029; 19049.6232
Quantum Dmg#2: 19049.6232
HY3: 19049.6232 * 2.948 = 56158.2891936
Quantum Dmg#3: 56158.2891936
CrtD Base: 50%
9 Projectile Weapon Specialization: +25%; 75%
5x Romulan Superior Operative: +25%; 100%
Romulan Covert Operative: +3.8%; 103.8%
APA3: +50%; 153.8%
4x UR Vulnerability Exploiter (Quantum): + (4 * 8%) = 32%; 185.8%
[CrtD]x3: + (3 * 20%) = 60%; 245.8%
Bioneural Infusion: +15%; 260.8%
Da Quantum CRIT!: + (56158.2891936 * 2.608) = 146460.8182169088; ~202619.1074105088
Okay, so we've got our outgoing damage for each of the two example weapons:
DBB ~136624.9
Quantum Torp ~202619.1
Let's have them hit something, eh? Let's stick to extremes. 75% damage reduction resilient shields and 75% damage resistance hull. Both with shields up and with no shields, eh?
DBB ~136624.9
vs. Shields: 136624.9 * 0.9 = 122962.41 * 0.25 = 30740.6025...well, those shields are toast.
Bleed: ???
For the life of me, I just can't remember how the actual damage will play out in this scenario. It was discussed recently, and I forgot already...meh. Does part of the damage still eat the 5% that disappears into the ether with energy weapons vs. resilient shields? Meh, if somebody knows and wants to jump in - have at it! Puhleeez...
vs. Hull: 136624.9 * 0.25 = 34156.225...and some ships will make a pretty explosion.
Quantum Torp ~202619.1
vs. Shields: 202619.1 * 0.95 = 192488.145 * 0.25 = 48122.03625 * 0.25 = 12030.5090625...well, some shields will be gone while others might giggle cause it tickled.
Bleed: 202619.1 * 0.05 = 10130.955 * 0.25 = 2532.73875...and yeah - /shrug.
Yes, kinetic vs. resilient does 95% and not 90%. There's no 5% disappearing magically into the ether. Yes, it was multiplied by 25% twice vs. the shields - shields have an innate 75% kinetic damage reduction.
vs. Hull: 202619.1 * 0.25 = 50654.775...and more ships than with the DBB would end up making pretty explosions.
Okay, yeah - yeah - that was a little bit agenda biased. The torp did ~1.48x the damage of the DBB vs. hull...but vs shields? The DBB did ~2.56x the damage. Shouldn't those numbers be closer? So it's more balanced? Keeping the Energy vs. Shields and Kinetic vs. Hull, but just not with that ~2.56x vs. ~1.48x, eh? Given the RoF and everything once you get into DPS instead of DPV...meh.
Okay then, perhaps a more realistic example to show the effect of a debuff, eh? Just hull, mind you...let's say we've got a target with the equivalent of a single rare Neut Mk XI with +17.5 DRR/DRM going for it. That's giving it 14.9% DR.
DBB ~136624.9 * 0.851 = 116267.8
Quantum Torp ~202619.1 * 0.851 = 172428.8
Let's throw in a -50 DRR/DRM debuff on the target. That drops the DR from 14.9% to -20.6%...so we're no longer looking at a reduction to damage, we're looking at an increase.
DBB ~136624.9 * 1.206 = 164769.6
Quantum Torp ~202619.1 *1.206 = 244358.6
And while that does play into what I started with, about the intuitive nature of where things might be applied - some might also call it logical - some both, whatever...heh, it's also agenda biased.
Stacked debuffs are EVIL. Over on Tribble, they're limiting players to a single APB - but, Weavers can still stack their APBs. Multiple players can still stack their APBs together. Add in FOMMs, Sensor Scans, APDs, Disruptor and Disruptor-like procs, etc, etc, etc...stacked debuffs are EVIL and basically create the largest problems, imho, in the game - throwing things the most out of whack. Whether one is talking PvP or PvE, they are going to be the major source of all the ludicrous damage...since they modify the "final" modifier to go from a reduction to an increase.
Your weapons do, boosted by it.
This message brought to you by smartassrylana.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Heh, are you suggesting that EPtW do damage? That using it has the potential to damage a player's own systems? That shunting that additional energy into the weapons could cause an overload resulting in something similar to a ship injury? :P
'Twould be an interesting mechanic, but then you'd have to apply that chance as well, to Emer to Shields/Aux/Engines
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Heh, would never happen in a game like this...but it's something that certain game systems might account for in building a "power" where there are disadvantages to offset the advantages to have potentially better balanced powers.
Empty Power - 0 cost
Provides Some Advantage/Benefit/Damage/Etc - X cost
Provide Additional Stuff - Y cost
Increase the benefit of either - increased X or Y cost
Disadvantage to offset that cost and keep the overall cost down - Z cost reduction
Yeah, it was one of the things that threw me when they announced Champions Online and then started showing more info on it. I was so happy at first, thinking they were going to do something along the lines of the Hero System...but anope.
I'm sure Cryptic follows some sort of thing along those lines in developing everything, it's kind of fundamental - you set up your base costs, start tossing things in, get a cost value for the item and it should be balanced to other similar items. Course, somewhere along the lines - it definitely seems that got tossed out the window. No inflation of costs here - your $$$ goes further today than it did a year ago...ahem.