Ok, so I have been doing some testing with this new Arc version.
Using the tools provided, I can see that this new version still scans all attached hard drives, but does not (from what I can tell with monitoring) send any information outside my virtual machine.
Whether it masks the data somehow, I don't know....
It is also important to note that is still does this despite not allowing permission to do so. Why Arc still needs to scan hard drives that have nothing to so with the directory it is installed into, is beyond me....
Make you own minds up, but this program will still never be put onto any of my gaming computers, period.
Who the heck knows what it's looking for? Details like that aren't being disclosed, and that alone should set off red flags for everyone.
No, you may not scan my system or install plugins everywhere. You may not do anything to my system without my explicit permission, and no, you may not establish this permission with some vague, catch-all TOS agreement. You will tell me every single thing your program does and give me the chance to opt out of each item, or it's not getting installed on my machine.
*Note: Even though a new Arc client is available for download, all Game Launchers will remain in their current form during the beta. this is a god dam lie,my launcher has worked fine for 3 years now suddenly it does nothing but stall out and freeze...I hate you STO you evil greedy thieving backstabbing TRIBBLE!
This is why there's such a fervor to "please tell us every detail of what your scanner said about ARC."
It's because of the unspoken conclusion: "...so that we can better disguise the spyware and rootkits to prevent them from being detected in the future, mandatory installation."
I hate to say it but my suspicions are leading me to that conclusion as well, that every detail we give here isn't going to benefit us but is just being used to make it easier to sneak it under the radar.
We have no proof of that, in fact there has been zero transparency about what ARC actually does on a users computer and things we discover on our own are proving contrary what we are being told. We're told ARC has no Spyware yet it installs plugins in other browsers that are active when viewing other websites, We're told ARC has no Torrent capability but will be used for downloading and patching game files where a torrent function would be implicit.
I realize you guys are obligated by your employers to put a positive spin on this thing but you better remember you are not dealing with a bunch of idiots, if something smells fishy we are not going to call it a rose.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
So it's okay when a corporation does it, but it's not okay when an individual or a government agency does it.
Can you see the logical disconnect there?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I hate to say it but my suspicions are leading me to that conclusion as well, that every detail we give here isn't going to benefit us but is just being used to make it easier to sneak it under the radar.
We have no proof of that, in fact there has been zero transparency about what ARC actually does on a users computer and things we discover on our own are proving contrary what we are being told. We're told ARC has no Spyware yet it installs plugins in other browsers that are active when viewing other websites, We're told ARC has no Torrent capability but will be used for downloading and patching game files where a torrent function would be implicit.
I realize you guys are obligated by your employers to put a positive spin on this thing but you better remember you are not dealing with a bunch of idiots, if something smells fishy we are not going to call it a rose.
Yeah, it sounds like corporate marketing BS Bingo, to me. They're not installing spyware, just something that acts like spyware but is named something else. It's not a torrent, it's "on-demand, peer-to-peer patching," or somesuch. Or "Arc doesn't have this capability", but it does call up some client program with that capability.
If hope you guys know that you can uninstall the arc from your system and still play STO, because there is an option in the uninstaller which says that only uninstall Arc but keep the installed games.
And yes, it installs additional stuff on the machine like firefox plugins, so stop lying to us about not sniffing on us.
I hate to say it but my suspicions are leading me to that conclusion as well, that every detail we give here isn't going to benefit us but is just being used to make it easier to sneak it under the radar.
I know, right? Tell me this doesn't set off klaxons and red lights:
For any reports of alerts from these programs, please let us know. The more information that can be provided, the better. The full report from the software, including what specific activity or behavior it identified as suspicious, can help us improve Arc to ensure that it is accurately analyzed as safe and secure.
I find "so that it is accurately analyzed" and "...as safe and secure" to look very, very strange as linked together here. It reads to me like "Oooooh, all those silly scanners finding all sorts of issues to warn about are doing it wrong, and we need to help them correctly interpret our innocuous little tidbits."
Yeah, and maybe the reason multiple malware scanners are shrieking "malware" is for the most obvious reason. :rolleyes:
Another thing, this is supposedly PWE's idea of a unified launcher, maybe I'm remembering wrong and with PWE games but with Cryptic games we already have a unified launcher. You can open up Cryptic's launcher settings and click an option to allow you to select any Cryptic game you have installed to patch.
My conclusion is... after having tested Arc for myself and having seen the opinions and concerns in this thread... and having seen the Corporate reaction to our concerns...
Game Over.
The company won't listen, is more interested in figuring out how to stealth the functionally of Arc and flat out refuses to tell us what is going on under the hood.
You're dealing with a user-base that is slightly smarter than the average bear. You have no concept of what you are dealing with here. Continue to ignore our requests and play corporate-babble games and you will in fact put yourselves out of business.
My conclusion is... after having tested Arc for myself and having seen the opinions and concerns in this thread... and having seen the Corporate reaction to our concerns...
Game Over.
The company won't listen, is more interested in figuring out how to stealth the functionally of Arc and flat out refuses to tell us what is going on under the hood.
You're dealing with a user-base that is slightly smarter than the average bear. You have no concept of what you are dealing with here. Continue to ignore our requests and play corporate-babble games and you will in fact put yourselves out of business.
Rapidly.
Hi Cryptic remember us the people who pay your salary heed this warning
Invasive game addons ? The moment I am forced to install that garbage, is the moment I uninstall STO for good.
Look what gameguard did to Trickster Online in the US... oh right Trickster Online was SHUTDOWN after being in operation for years.
Say no to invasive rootkit style programs that turn your computer into a remote torrent sharing server. I guess there is no end to the data mining either. I predicted this game would start dying at a rapid pace before the end of 2014... looks like my predictions are becoming a reality.
End the greed! You can make a profit without TRIBBLE us over.
I've made up my mind, because STO is the main game I play and my other games have nothing to do with pwe I'm going to hard reset my gaming PCB, completely wipe the drives and reload the Oscar under a fake name. Install arc and STO, nothing else, never will I put payment information on it for anything, this will be my STO rig and PWE will not see a red scent from me. My laptop will be scrubbed of anything pwe has their hands on and become my business rig. Probably something I should have done long ago but meh, if PWE wants to try this money grab I'm personally going to make sure it backfires on my end.
Nope. Other than probably having to give information to ARC developers of what to put on the STO part of it, they don't have influence on it.
Indeed, I know just from personal experience even volunteering for a certain small project how little say you can have in game related matters as a developer of any content, you take your orders like a soldier in a boot camp and do them, if you don't and challenge the views of your overlord, especially publicly, you get the boot real quick. simple as that. An actual business chain of command could only be more strict that what I've experienced.
PWE Does not need arc to spy on the computer. Sto is already on the computer and it is controlled by PWE. The could just use sto to spy on us and we would never know because it already access the hdd and the network.
How many "no's" must you guys get before you listen?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Let me add my own there.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO catch breath NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
And NO.
I will just stick with Steam, thank you very much. I really just don't see why PWE is trying to create its own Steam when its already there. And when it already has been stated that the Steam Launcher will keep working.
So for those who want to go around ARC with a big arc (see what I did there xD), keep your current launcher or go Steam. 100% ARC proof.
As for the others, I'll be putting some Mk XII Resilient Shield Arrays [ARC]x3 on the exchange soon. Should help you out.
Continue to develop Arc, sure. Just don't make it mandatory. It'll scare both new and old players away.
There is a lot of dead space up at the top. Can the cart/user icon/language line be integrated with the ribbon underneath it? Also, when the web page is narrow, it does integrate the games/social/new/etc items with the top cart/user icon/language line, but the download/what is arc icon disappears.
When less than about 1024 wide on a screen (which might happen if a player is running a DPS meter and a voice chat client at the same time), the News webthingie overlaps the Game Info.
The distinction between the Legacy Pack and the Starter Pack is a bit overdone - it isn't clear that you can purchase the Starter pack since there is no Add to Cart button, or a "Learn More" button for either, other than hovering over the name.
The link between the product pages and the subpages is very weak - it's only available through three small links on the right (game guide/news/forum) and is missing media and wiki (and is in a different order than the subpages show)
News:
Looks pretty good, no real complaints.
Guides:
Suggest adding a link here for the community-produced guest blogs. Perhaps a separate link for PvP guest blogs
Request players to submit special "How to play..." guides for Science, Tactical, and Engineering space and ground. Have a competition, let people vote on the best guide, give the best + runner's up some zen, incorporate the best guide + content from runner's up.
Gateway guide needs to include more information - How to disable public viewing, and how to lookup another player's information. Gateway should be a top-line item next to Guides IMO.
Media:
Would like to see the screenshots available here. Looks like these are just single pictures without size options. Will there be a separate Wallpapers group with multiple sizes available? Also, download window should include some sort of terms of use - is it OK to share on social media, use on a STO website, etc. I assume the Thumbs Up button is for supporting user-contributed media at some point in the future?
Wiki:
TYVM for putting the wiki at the top level, I think that will do a lot to help drive traffic to it.
Clearly, as evidenced by the general transparency of the project, and the plethora of official statements specifically addressing each concern in detail and explicitly promising, for the record, that non of these alarming things will ever be forced on us. :rolleyes:
It won't try to install always-on torrent/peer-to-peer file patching by that or any other name.
It won't sneak in plugins to monitor your browsing activity.
It won't surrepticiously scan all local drives for god knows what.
It certainly won't mine data to feed a marketing database somewhere.
And above all else, it will never be mandatory to have Arc installed and running in order to play STO.
Right? Right??
*edit* And of course, Steam will always be an option, and PW would never put the kibosh on that in favor of their clone. Those of you who use Steam as a workaround to this can depend on that option being around forever.
Comments
Using the tools provided, I can see that this new version still scans all attached hard drives, but does not (from what I can tell with monitoring) send any information outside my virtual machine.
Whether it masks the data somehow, I don't know....
It is also important to note that is still does this despite not allowing permission to do so. Why Arc still needs to scan hard drives that have nothing to so with the directory it is installed into, is beyond me....
Make you own minds up, but this program will still never be put onto any of my gaming computers, period.
looking for installed PWE games perhaps...
Who the heck knows what it's looking for? Details like that aren't being disclosed, and that alone should set off red flags for everyone.
No, you may not scan my system or install plugins everywhere. You may not do anything to my system without my explicit permission, and no, you may not establish this permission with some vague, catch-all TOS agreement. You will tell me every single thing your program does and give me the chance to opt out of each item, or it's not getting installed on my machine.
I realize you guys are obligated by your employers to put a positive spin on this thing but you better remember you are not dealing with a bunch of idiots, if something smells fishy we are not going to call it a rose.
Idon'thate to break this too you, but
THE NSA ALREADY DO! :eek:
I hope STO get's better ...
So it's okay when a corporation does it, but it's not okay when an individual or a government agency does it.
Can you see the logical disconnect there?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah, it sounds like corporate marketing BS Bingo, to me. They're not installing spyware, just something that acts like spyware but is named something else. It's not a torrent, it's "on-demand, peer-to-peer patching," or somesuch. Or "Arc doesn't have this capability", but it does call up some client program with that capability.
And yes, it installs additional stuff on the machine like firefox plugins, so stop lying to us about not sniffing on us.
I know, right? Tell me this doesn't set off klaxons and red lights:
I find "so that it is accurately analyzed" and "...as safe and secure" to look very, very strange as linked together here. It reads to me like "Oooooh, all those silly scanners finding all sorts of issues to warn about are doing it wrong, and we need to help them correctly interpret our innocuous little tidbits."
Yeah, and maybe the reason multiple malware scanners are shrieking "malware" is for the most obvious reason. :rolleyes:
Game Over.
The company won't listen, is more interested in figuring out how to stealth the functionally of Arc and flat out refuses to tell us what is going on under the hood.
You're dealing with a user-base that is slightly smarter than the average bear. You have no concept of what you are dealing with here. Continue to ignore our requests and play corporate-babble games and you will in fact put yourselves out of business.
Rapidly.
Oh it was probably the same people who asked for the voth who now want arc, you know the people nobody ever see's or hears from ever!
How many "no's" must you guys get before you listen?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
It's PWE that's trying to force this trash on us, Cryptic has nothing to do with it
Hi Cryptic remember us the people who pay your salary heed this warning
That is a question of whether someone's principles are worth more to them than their job.
Look what gameguard did to Trickster Online in the US... oh right Trickster Online was SHUTDOWN after being in operation for years.
Say no to invasive rootkit style programs that turn your computer into a remote torrent sharing server. I guess there is no end to the data mining either. I predicted this game would start dying at a rapid pace before the end of 2014... looks like my predictions are becoming a reality.
End the greed! You can make a profit without TRIBBLE us over.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Nope. Other than probably having to give information to ARC developers of what to put on the STO part of it, they don't have influence on it.
Edit: @mewi, cute signature
11 August 2008
Indeed, I know just from personal experience even volunteering for a certain small project how little say you can have in game related matters as a developer of any content, you take your orders like a soldier in a boot camp and do them, if you don't and challenge the views of your overlord, especially publicly, you get the boot real quick. simple as that. An actual business chain of command could only be more strict that what I've experienced.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
ARC is not the evil app you guys think it is.
Let me add my own there.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO catch breath NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
And NO.
I will just stick with Steam, thank you very much. I really just don't see why PWE is trying to create its own Steam when its already there. And when it already has been stated that the Steam Launcher will keep working.
So for those who want to go around ARC with a big arc (see what I did there xD), keep your current launcher or go Steam. 100% ARC proof.
As for the others, I'll be putting some Mk XII Resilient Shield Arrays [ARC]x3 on the exchange soon. Should help you out.
Continue to develop Arc, sure. Just don't make it mandatory. It'll scare both new and old players away.
Join the Deltas today!
Game Product Page:
News:
Guides:
Media:
Wiki:
Other
Clearly, as evidenced by the general transparency of the project, and the plethora of official statements specifically addressing each concern in detail and explicitly promising, for the record, that non of these alarming things will ever be forced on us. :rolleyes:
It won't try to install always-on torrent/peer-to-peer file patching by that or any other name.
It won't sneak in plugins to monitor your browsing activity.
It won't surrepticiously scan all local drives for god knows what.
It certainly won't mine data to feed a marketing database somewhere.
And above all else, it will never be mandatory to have Arc installed and running in order to play STO.
Right? Right??
*edit* And of course, Steam will always be an option, and PW would never put the kibosh on that in favor of their clone. Those of you who use Steam as a workaround to this can depend on that option being around forever.