Your still ranting about pvp and pvpers in general when all my statements and question directed at you about being insulting in pvp and being civil in response to civlity on the forums are strictly about my actions in both pvp and the forums.
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
Your still ranting about pvp and pvpers in general when all my statements and question directed at you about being insulting in pvp and being civil in response to civlity on the forums are strictly about my actions in both pvp and the forums.
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
I will recap in turn:
You're doing a spectacular waltz with yourself, scoring massive margins of points in a confusing game that only you seem to have the rulebook for, and you're standing in the winner's circle you've set up, wringing your hands in triumph and at this point I'm scratching my head.
I peek into PVP from time to time and attitudes remain toxic. I do not even speak in /zone or elsewhere but the "kids got reckd" talk is still present.
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
I tried PvP again last night, pug'ed a FvF. I really want to like PvP but the furball nature of PvP just isn't fun for me. Ships with thousands of crew zipping around like tiny fighters seems incredibly absurd.
As much as I found Star Trek: Legacy to be... lacking, at least the ships behaved like large ships. I'm fine with BoPs and Defiants zipping around (still should be reduced a bit) but Warbirds and Avengers, please.
Not really sure what could or should be done about it since this is just one person's opinion.
The Rewards for Pvp are just not enough , to draw me to play and justify the cost to compete.
not 20k EC that i got yesterday for 25mins if i did the daily yeah i would get a little more but i did an STF yesterday that took 8mins
I got 940 dil , 500 for the marks turned in , and 1000 for the 6BNPs i got
so I was lucky with the BNP's but I got 2440 Dilithium for 8 mins .
Thats why i don't play PVP.
Now if the rewards for random or had some nice drops ( still with a low drop rate chance id play ) i.e. lock box keys 1000 refined dilithium , Mark packs , I think more and more people would play PVP and maybe some of the other dailies other like the big dig or breaking the planet , but lets be honest , there are just no rewards only reps.
20k PVP reward , or an engine drop work 50k if u get rid of it in the replicator ????
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
I have made no claim that pvp is anything at all. I certainly never made the claim that your anecdotes had no weight or bearing. I have merely stated they had nothing to do with my original question below.
I asked a question and you ran in a completely different direction from what I asked of the thread.
Then you made claims like the above that I never made. I never said PvP was not full of trash talking - I said I have never trash talked in pvp.
I never made any claim to about the existing nature of pvp at all. You made the claim that I did when I did not.
I asked one simple question;
but will the new system make the solo nonvet low gear doff ship quality often lacking in teamwork using player happy even when they still fail to win as consistantly as their egoes say they should?
which you ignored answering but did launch a huge tirade about pvp that had nothing to with what I asked, followed by saying I made claims that I never made.
Much like any time anyone says anything you do not like you babble about other content and make false claims rather than address the statements made to you.
But I would argue that it is. While I can appreciate that fleet purples are nice to have, they're not required for PvE. So if you're not playing PvP, the only thing fleet weapons are doing is forcing you to grind for stuff that the playerbase falsely feels are obsolete. Take that away, and what is the point of having a starbase. To spend a ridiculous amount of dilithium, and other resources, on fishtanks, and banners. Stuff that should be done on the individual level for ship interiors. I won't even get into the argument that fleet starbases, let alone fleets aren't even canon, at least not in the way STO has implemented them. So, if you remove the fleet vendors from starbases, who sell stuff that you really only need to stomp players with inferior weaponry in PvP, you find that constructing a SB is a pointless endeavor of throwing resources away. All I'm sayin'
The initial point was to give a resource sink to existing fleets and a social area for which to gather as a fleet. Its also a money making and time sink for Cryptic to insure people play the game.
While its true that none of any of the materials anywhere in STO are needed for PvE, many players do enjoy getting the next best item or ship to play with.
As well some fleets whom never pvp use their starbases and the resources it can provide for personal reasons like RP and beating the STFs.
Ultimately though you are right that starbases are just a resource sink.
But I would argue that it is. While I can appreciate that fleet purples are nice to have, they're not required for PvE. So if you're not playing PvP, the only thing fleet weapons are doing is forcing you to grind for stuff to replace items, that the playerbase falsely feels are obsolete. Take that away, and what is the point of having a starbase. To spend a ridiculous amount of dilithium, and other resources, on fishtanks, and banners. Stuff that should be done on the individual level for ship interiors. I won't even get into the argument that fleet starbases, let alone fleets aren't even canon, at least not in the way STO has implemented them. So, if you remove the fleet vendors from starbases, who sell stuff that you really only need to stomp players with inferior weaponry in PvP, you find that constructing a SB is a pointless endeavor of throwing resources away. All I'm sayin'
My fleet's building a starbase just because it's a cool thing to have. Got nothing to do with gear, PvP or anything like that.
Just because -you- feel that they only have value in PvP, doesn't mean that everyone feels that way. Some of us just like building things. The starbase, the mine, the embassy. They're all cool. Maybe you want Fleet ships and you want to earn it yourself, not jump into someone else's fleet who's already done all the work. (Not that I'm criticising those that offer that service - people who offer access to their T5 starbase to others for free are to be commended)
I'm just saying that there's lots of reasons to have starbases and fleet holdings that don't involve PvP.
Frankly, if PvP did affect the game environment, I wouldn't play that game. I don't want my gameplay experience affected by other players. That's not why I play STO.
If fleet holdings were subject to PvP, I wouldn't build any. I don't want to have to defend my starbase against other players. That's not why I play STO.
Why do I play STO? To push some buttons and watch pixellated bad guys go boom to relax and unwind after a day at work.
Forcing PvP upon me removes the "relax" and "unwind" parts of that. And frankly, they're the most important to me.
Did a lot of PVP in the very early days of the game with all my friends who also played.
Didn't really enjoy it, just did it because they all wanted to, so once my friends all quit playing I stopped doing it and now whenever I play I just do random PVE stuff instead.
Unrefined dilly? I got plenty from the myriad of PvE things to do, don't need more.
EC? I make more just selling off whites to my replicator.
Rep? There isn't any.
Maybe if the rewards were really worth it I'd be doing it, or maybe not because even then everyone expects you to roll up in Ship X with load-out Y, and if you don't they ***** and/or you get hopelessly wrecked by the guy that did.
There's no flexibility.
If I take my ship with tetryon weapons + consoles, grab rep torpedoes, experimental Proton set and Nukara mines to an STF, no one says anything because even a rainbow turret boat pushes out enough damage to suffice.
If I did that in PVP I'd probably get chewed out because its "Disruptor/Plasma/Antiproton or GTFO!".
So yeah, guess I don't because both the rewards AND balance is screwed up.
I have made no claim that pvp is anything at all. I certainly never made the claim that your anecdotes had no weight or bearing. I have merely stated they had nothing to do with my original question below.
I asked a question and you ran in a completely different direction from what I asked of the thread.
Then you made claims like the above that I never made. I never said PvP was not full of trash talking - I said I have never trash talked in pvp.
I never made any claim to about the existing nature of pvp at all. You made the claim that I did when I did not.
I asked one simple question;
which you ignored answering but did launch a huge tirade about pvp that had nothing to with what I asked, followed by saying I made claims that I never made.
Much like any time anyone says anything you do not like you babble about other content and make false claims rather than address the statements made to you.
With all your "gotcha" games that you play with yourself and the pedantic (and asinine) "simple questions" you keep resummoning, you've created a grand house of smoke and mirrors to hide yourself in and forgot to invite anyone in.
TL;DR version since you need one: Congratulations. You've won a game that only you seem to know the rules to and only you seemed interested in playing. You can collect whatever trophy you made for yourself.
And I';m just saying that outside of Fleet vendors, that sell stuff that just unbalances everything that's already in-game from power creep, there really isn't. I understand you get a sense of accomplishment, and warm fuzzies from your starbase. Ok, I concede, now what else? A social hub? Plenty of them in-game already. Standard in-game services? Kind of off the beaten path. Transwarp, hop into a shuttle, etc... Looking at Banners, and fishtanks? It's not like you can add fish to the tank, and the fish that are in there just spin around like their caught in a waterspout. Let's see, what else? Couple of doff assignments that are more trouble than they're worth getting to. Tribble soccer? That get's old quick.
Total up the cost for all this essentially, useless, junk, and the 15-20 people that actually contributed the 80% of the dilithium spent could have really sweet loadouts for their ships instead. So when you look at it in that context, if you don't PvP, starbases really don't add anything to the game that isn't already there. The only real purpose of a starbase is to support PvP, with fleet ships, and fleet equipment. And if you don't really care about that aspect of the game, you're just throwing your resources away. All I'm sayin'
I'm having a hard time figuring out what else a starbase could do that you'd want it to do, that would not be too much a detriment to those without a starbase at all.
I say this as a strong advocate for PVEers to stay away from the PVP area, considering how toxic its regulars often are how bloated its equipment and build demands are.
I know many friends who don't PvP. One even said the doesn't like the mentality; and unfortunately it is right especially in Fed vs Fed. If you start losing, you may encounter someone shaming on the whole team, a critique is taken too seriously even if someone tries to help you. Then pugmades etc. All of these players I know are inactive, left since PvE got boring.
Chose playing Federation because as a Trekkie guy I love it, but sometimes I see KDF players more polite in manners when it comes to PvP. Maybe just an impression.
One more thing is you need epic equipment to make an effective build. With all the good faith PvE players may have, they have to grind a lot. Honestly though, succeeding in PvP is a kinda great feeling and well worth the effort.
With all your "gotcha" games that you play with yourself and the pedantic (and asinine) "simple questions" you keep resummoning, you've created a grand house of smoke and mirrors to hide yourself in and forgot to invite anyone in.
TL;DR version since you need one: Congratulations. You've won a game that only you seem to know the rules to and only you seemed interested in playing. You can collect whatever trophy you made for yourself.
You still babble alot about nothing of topic and make no sense what so ever. Its a rather poor debate tactic.
I'm starting to think you may be Nancy Pelosi.
That's my point. Starbases should be removed entirely from the core of the game, and replaced with player housing in the form of ship interiors. Ship interiors that can be personalized with items/furniture purchased with latinum, by the individual players. Starbases should be relegated to PvP territorial control, as this is the part of the game they support. I've been to my starbase one time, to buy the Odyssey uniform. Haven't gone back since. Like the Odyssey uniform could be sold by the dilithium vendor on ESD? Hell, it shouldn't even cost dilithium, that's just Cryptic being cheap, f-in', penny pinchers.
I see no reason why we cant have both. Ships for the individual players and Star Bases for the fleets.
The queue is such that premades always get matched with random pugs. Having 2 premades go into the same match against each other is like hitting one pinhead with another - they must both enter the queue at just the right moment.
Thus, all matches are one sided, pug gets pwned and dont pvp again, premades gets bored after a few matches and don't pvp again.
Here's a reason. Things may not be so fine and dandy in Los Gatos as of late. Voth lockboxes are selling well below 100 ECs on the exchange. Put 18 of them up at 30 ECs apiece last night. I could swear Cryptic is trying to compensate by increasing the drop rate. All 18 dropped during the Defera dilly dailies. Could be the first signs of climate change.
So having a costumizing platform for ships similiar to what is done for fleet Starbases would not be a profitable grinder for Cryptic in your opinion?
Here's a reason. Things may not be so fine and dandy in Los Gatos as of late. Voth lockboxes are selling well below 100 ECs on the exchange. Put 18 of them up at 30 ECs apiece last night. I could swear Cryptic is trying to compensate by increasing the drop rate. All 18 dropped during the Defera dilly dailies. Could be the first signs of climate change.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I would like to remind you guys of some of the ideas we had to make pvp more palatable for casual players:
-A player who Q's alone will only fight other players who have Q'd alone or a mode for random teaming only so that players do not have to face premade teams if they do not choose to.
-FED and KDF war games merged so that a war game will have teams built of FED and KDF mixes (this would speed things up).
-A ladder/ranking system to separate skilled players from unskilled players.
-A reputation system or pvp reward system of some kind.
Because most people PVP to 'get over' on others, and I find that of no interest. I do occasionally PvP, but it is seldom. The most PvP thing I do often is race in Winter Wonderland - I'm pretty good at that! But it seems a less 'negative' experience than most of the PvP I have encountered.
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Hard to look at it from the perspective of someone who hasn't been playing STO since it went live, but I still find the PvP gear/build formula grind gating to be somewhat obnoxious, and those fine folks who behave like "I can follow a template" is some kind of epic personal accomplishment to be lorded over others is not helping matters.
Best way to enjoy any kind of PvP content (in my humble opinion) is to pick those days where everyone gets the 3-shot mission from Icheb. Then the experience is a bit more diverse than a handful of smug premades congratulating themselves for stomping pick-up teams of newly-minted level 50s.
Comments
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
R.I.P
I will recap in turn:
You're doing a spectacular waltz with yourself, scoring massive margins of points in a confusing game that only you seem to have the rulebook for, and you're standing in the winner's circle you've set up, wringing your hands in triumph and at this point I'm scratching my head.
What was this thread about?
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
As much as I found Star Trek: Legacy to be... lacking, at least the ships behaved like large ships. I'm fine with BoPs and Defiants zipping around (still should be reduced a bit) but Warbirds and Avengers, please.
Not really sure what could or should be done about it since this is just one person's opinion.
not 20k EC that i got yesterday for 25mins if i did the daily yeah i would get a little more but i did an STF yesterday that took 8mins
I got 940 dil , 500 for the marks turned in , and 1000 for the 6BNPs i got
so I was lucky with the BNP's but I got 2440 Dilithium for 8 mins .
Thats why i don't play PVP.
Now if the rewards for random or had some nice drops ( still with a low drop rate chance id play ) i.e. lock box keys 1000 refined dilithium , Mark packs , I think more and more people would play PVP and maybe some of the other dailies other like the big dig or breaking the planet , but lets be honest , there are just no rewards only reps.
20k PVP reward , or an engine drop work 50k if u get rid of it in the replicator ????
I have made no claim that pvp is anything at all. I certainly never made the claim that your anecdotes had no weight or bearing. I have merely stated they had nothing to do with my original question below.
I asked a question and you ran in a completely different direction from what I asked of the thread.
Then you made claims like the above that I never made. I never said PvP was not full of trash talking - I said I have never trash talked in pvp.
I never made any claim to about the existing nature of pvp at all. You made the claim that I did when I did not.
I asked one simple question;
which you ignored answering but did launch a huge tirade about pvp that had nothing to with what I asked, followed by saying I made claims that I never made.
Much like any time anyone says anything you do not like you babble about other content and make false claims rather than address the statements made to you.
R.I.P
The initial point was to give a resource sink to existing fleets and a social area for which to gather as a fleet. Its also a money making and time sink for Cryptic to insure people play the game.
While its true that none of any of the materials anywhere in STO are needed for PvE, many players do enjoy getting the next best item or ship to play with.
As well some fleets whom never pvp use their starbases and the resources it can provide for personal reasons like RP and beating the STFs.
Ultimately though you are right that starbases are just a resource sink.
R.I.P
My fleet's building a starbase just because it's a cool thing to have. Got nothing to do with gear, PvP or anything like that.
Just because -you- feel that they only have value in PvP, doesn't mean that everyone feels that way. Some of us just like building things. The starbase, the mine, the embassy. They're all cool. Maybe you want Fleet ships and you want to earn it yourself, not jump into someone else's fleet who's already done all the work. (Not that I'm criticising those that offer that service - people who offer access to their T5 starbase to others for free are to be commended)
I'm just saying that there's lots of reasons to have starbases and fleet holdings that don't involve PvP.
Frankly, if PvP did affect the game environment, I wouldn't play that game. I don't want my gameplay experience affected by other players. That's not why I play STO.
If fleet holdings were subject to PvP, I wouldn't build any. I don't want to have to defend my starbase against other players. That's not why I play STO.
Why do I play STO? To push some buttons and watch pixellated bad guys go boom to relax and unwind after a day at work.
Forcing PvP upon me removes the "relax" and "unwind" parts of that. And frankly, they're the most important to me.
Are fleet holdings a resource sink? Absolutely.
Are they pointless? Not to me and my fleetmates.
Didn't really enjoy it, just did it because they all wanted to, so once my friends all quit playing I stopped doing it and now whenever I play I just do random PVE stuff instead.
Unrefined dilly? I got plenty from the myriad of PvE things to do, don't need more.
EC? I make more just selling off whites to my replicator.
Rep? There isn't any.
Maybe if the rewards were really worth it I'd be doing it, or maybe not because even then everyone expects you to roll up in Ship X with load-out Y, and if you don't they ***** and/or you get hopelessly wrecked by the guy that did.
There's no flexibility.
If I take my ship with tetryon weapons + consoles, grab rep torpedoes, experimental Proton set and Nukara mines to an STF, no one says anything because even a rainbow turret boat pushes out enough damage to suffice.
If I did that in PVP I'd probably get chewed out because its "Disruptor/Plasma/Antiproton or GTFO!".
So yeah, guess I don't because both the rewards AND balance is screwed up.
With all your "gotcha" games that you play with yourself and the pedantic (and asinine) "simple questions" you keep resummoning, you've created a grand house of smoke and mirrors to hide yourself in and forgot to invite anyone in.
TL;DR version since you need one: Congratulations. You've won a game that only you seem to know the rules to and only you seemed interested in playing. You can collect whatever trophy you made for yourself.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what else a starbase could do that you'd want it to do, that would not be too much a detriment to those without a starbase at all.
I say this as a strong advocate for PVEers to stay away from the PVP area, considering how toxic its regulars often are how bloated its equipment and build demands are.
Chose playing Federation because as a Trekkie guy I love it, but sometimes I see KDF players more polite in manners when it comes to PvP. Maybe just an impression.
One more thing is you need epic equipment to make an effective build. With all the good faith PvE players may have, they have to grind a lot. Honestly though, succeeding in PvP is a kinda great feeling and well worth the effort.
Just my two cents
I have a Kling at cap but, hey, it's masochism to play either. :P
You still babble alot about nothing of topic and make no sense what so ever. Its a rather poor debate tactic.
I'm starting to think you may be Nancy Pelosi.
R.I.P
I see no reason why we cant have both. Ships for the individual players and Star Bases for the fleets.
R.I.P
Thus, all matches are one sided, pug gets pwned and dont pvp again, premades gets bored after a few matches and don't pvp again.
I don't need them to give me anything else. Warm fuzzies and a sense of accomplishment will do just nicely for me. All I'm sayin'.
(That said, my fleet RPs in our starbase. YMMV, of course.)
So having a costumizing platform for ships similiar to what is done for fleet Starbases would not be a profitable grinder for Cryptic in your opinion?
R.I.P
To be honest, lockboxes ALWAYS get that cheap.
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Apparently, you find it of no interest, unless you're good at it.
Is it just a coincidence that what you find to be less 'negative' is also at what you are pretty good?
I wonder if that is true for most people.
Best way to enjoy any kind of PvP content (in my humble opinion) is to pick those days where everyone gets the 3-shot mission from Icheb. Then the experience is a bit more diverse than a handful of smug premades congratulating themselves for stomping pick-up teams of newly-minted level 50s.