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A thought occured to me: player-made power creep free PvP mode/channel
voporak
Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
So as I was leveling the sci character I wanted to bring into PvP, the depressing thought came down on me like a ton of bricks of all the grinding I'd have to do just to get him into even basic readiness for PvP. I thought about all the suggestions of the devs implementing a vanilla mode, suggestions to tone down all these power creepy items. But it dawned on me: why can't we do this ourselves?
Hypothesize for a minute. Just clear your head of any objections or stuff that might be forming. Let's say a channel was created, and for example we'll call it VPvP (Vanilla PvP). In VPvP, anyone could form a fair match, just like in Tyler Durden. However, the following restrictions would be set (read everything through before you jump to conclusions):
-No rep passives
-No rep gear (exception possibly to the Assimilated Module since that was not rep to begin with)
-No fleet gear
-No Lobi/lockbox gear (this means, for example, that subspace jump is not allowed for feds. Only Klingons who bought the ship can use it, as it should be)
-No fleet ships
-No lockbox/lobi ships (mirror ships are allowed)
-No lockbox traits
-No Nimbus pirates!
-Don't ask me about Roms and their boffs, that's something that could be worked out later
Obviously a lot would have to rely on honor, but we've got to start somewhere. A person who is found to be violating the rules would be warned the first time; a second time would result in removal from VPvP.
Now let's talk about the pros and cons. On the good side, if you want to get into PvP all you have to do is start a new, blank character and get it to level 50 and buy some exchange gear. You wouldn't have to worry about grinding all that stuff, you'd have everything you need - just like back in the early days. VPvP would also encourage those who were skeptical of hopping into the PvP boat to give it a try. And perhaps best of all, no one can cry about anything except teamwork (OP, I know).
On the downside, VPvP, as stated above, would run on a lot of trust between players. Also, you'd have to start a new character to have one blanked of all rep passives (unless you voluntarily take a rep reset token and leave the passives unpicked and then store away all your fleet/lockbox gear).
I've heard stories of how fun PvP was back in the old days before any of this power creep happened. My question to you is, could you get behind this? Would this work, a player implemented and maintained fix to a lot of problems in PvP (not all, but a lot)?
Hypothesize for a minute. Just clear your head of any objections or stuff that might be forming. Let's say a channel was created, and for example we'll call it VPvP (Vanilla PvP). In VPvP, anyone could form a fair match, just like in Tyler Durden. However, the following restrictions would be set (read everything through before you jump to conclusions):
-No rep passives
-No rep gear (exception possibly to the Assimilated Module since that was not rep to begin with)
-No fleet gear
-No Lobi/lockbox gear (this means, for example, that subspace jump is not allowed for feds. Only Klingons who bought the ship can use it, as it should be)
-No fleet ships
-No lockbox/lobi ships (mirror ships are allowed)
-No lockbox traits
-No Nimbus pirates!
-Don't ask me about Roms and their boffs, that's something that could be worked out later
Obviously a lot would have to rely on honor, but we've got to start somewhere. A person who is found to be violating the rules would be warned the first time; a second time would result in removal from VPvP.
Now let's talk about the pros and cons. On the good side, if you want to get into PvP all you have to do is start a new, blank character and get it to level 50 and buy some exchange gear. You wouldn't have to worry about grinding all that stuff, you'd have everything you need - just like back in the early days. VPvP would also encourage those who were skeptical of hopping into the PvP boat to give it a try. And perhaps best of all, no one can cry about anything except teamwork (OP, I know).
On the downside, VPvP, as stated above, would run on a lot of trust between players. Also, you'd have to start a new character to have one blanked of all rep passives (unless you voluntarily take a rep reset token and leave the passives unpicked and then store away all your fleet/lockbox gear).
I've heard stories of how fun PvP was back in the old days before any of this power creep happened. My question to you is, could you get behind this? Would this work, a player implemented and maintained fix to a lot of problems in PvP (not all, but a lot)?
I ask nothing but that you remember me.
Post edited by voporak on
0
Comments
1. No Rommy ships or Boffs.
2. Probably no Z-Store ships as well (perhaps allow the old token ones sans consoles w/exception of ship they came on).
3. Mirror would need to be case by case if at all.
4. No Vet ships.
5. No set gear.
6. Only 4 of the old Traits (if you want how it was).
7. Only base pets that they came w/for the few ships that would have them (Karfi if allowed, voquv).
8. There's things you can't undo like command auras, but I don't have a cruiser to know if I'm right on that. If I'm wrong, no auras.
9. Another thing you can't undo, eptx duration changes. Imo, this would benefit fast ships too much, ie epte. Not sure how to handle this short of no epte.
10. Things you can't add back: various high alpha spikes PSW3, Trics. Not that big a deal imo.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Regardless, I would add that no c-store ships be allowed, but refits are acceptable.
The equipment used should all be mk1. I'd say standard issue, but consoles aren't standard issue.
No cloaks of any kind.
No gravity well.
No aux2batt.
No consoles from any c-store ships.
Mirror Ships are Lockbox ships since you can only aquire them from a Lock Box reward IIRC. Even if some of them are cheap to buy on the Exchange.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
1. Romulans have much better trait options built in. Irrc it's no an option not to select it. If it is then it'd be ok if they didn't select them, but instead 4 of the original traits.
2. Rommy ships have singularity abilities w/strong shields, the tvaro is plenty fast as is their sci ship and escorts/destroyers, and all have battlecloak or better leading to #3
3. Cloaks are TRIBBLE KDF and Rommy abilities banning them is just silly. The OP mention playing like the game was earlier, it wasn't fvf.
4. Why no aux2batt if there are no doffs?
5. Why only mk1, I could see only mkx white, but mk1?
6. Retrofits are c-store ships ... a few of them were options via token for leveling.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
First off, I have this odd nagging feeling that you're trolling me, given the mk 1 comment. If you aren't proceed to the rest of my post.
Look, I'm not interested in barring actual abilities. You're taking it a bit too far. Cloaks in and of themselves are not a problem, it's what's been done to them with all the Romulan TRIBBLE. Romulans are an issue because of their stupid boffs, which are themselves power creep. Gravity well is a legitimate ability, and so is aux2batt. Technician doffs on the other hand, should be barred.
As for C-store ships, that's not really a problem. They've been there for a loooooooong time. They are 9 consoles just as the free ones are. Sure, I can see some of the more recent c-store releases being barred, especially the Odyssey/Vesta/Kumari packs, but otherwise there isn't an issue.
EDIT: Yes, mirror ships would be allowed. They're just plain old 9 console ships.
Fine w/me eitherway. Just know there'd be a lot of griping particular from Fed side w/limited Boff layout options is all.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
That is true... of course spec wise they are identical to the R5 ships there based on just with a swapped Ensign level boff slot.... I think allowing them could make this a cheaper way in for people that have brand new toons. No sense dumping tons of Dilihtium on Cryptics lowbie ships when we could allow people to drop 100k in EC instead.
Either way though I have old toons that I never bothered to rep that have hangers full of old ships.
Regarding C-Store ships, they were initially released w/1 less console for "balance", BUT a dev later admitted they were designed to be more powerful than non C-Store ships. There's also the matter of them making far more Fed ones then KDF over the years. They've also been boosted many times in other specs over the years as well including uni Boff slots.
For mirrors it would kind of go against the Drop box as mentioned tongue-in cheek before.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I was only pointing out that they were lockbox Ships. Not argueing the usefulness and ease of those ships. :rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I can see how C store ships might be a tad bit better, but honestly I doubt it makes much difference. It also eliminates unique ships like the Gal-X, cloaking Defiant, MVAE separation, Gal-R, etc.
But back to the original question, if I were to create the channel, would you all join up and form games on it (it would be kinda disheartening and altogether embarrassing if it were to sputter and die...)?
I'll edit into the OP that mirror ships would be allowed.
Tbh, it would depend on the restrictions. Imo, the more restrictive the better, including my favorite ship the B'rel. But, personally I'd not want anything that wouldn't have a been rewarded from the token or a mirror ship. MVAE and Defiant were options iirc on the Fed side along w/at least 1 Sci and Cruiser. KDF was a BC, Brel, and Karfi iirc.
The base HP and movements were all boosted as well as the 9th console slot being added on ships already designed to be better. Imo, better to start limited and add options in based on how things play out then start w/them and say later it's banned.
Edit: Given the likely hood of a small set of players wanting this. Perhaps have a planned event to start and see how many sign up?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
You know I just want to fly a raptor with a proper escort layout.
I see what you mean. That way we can build up and de-restrict things based on what works. I honestly don't see the problem with mirror ships, since they are a cheap and easy way to switch the T5 ship you picked, and don't come with any bonuses.
The reason I mentioned specific ships is that they have something unique. The Defiant is otherwise only available at T4, same with Galaxy-R, B'rel, Kar'fi, Gal-X, etc. The MVAE's console could be allowed only if it was put on the generic free version. But as we said, it'd be best to first start limited.
After making the OP, I did create a channel called VPvP, but it's currently private so people don't come wandering in. I can send out invites to anyone who wants to participate in running prototype matches for the channel.
Sounds fun to me... PvP was fun before all the TRIBBLE... throw in a none ego centric thing like TD style on top. Could for sure catch on.
I'll ask around in OPvP and TD to try to set up a date for the event. I've got several non power-creeped alts and several slave ones that I delete and recreate at my whim, so all I gotta do is level one and I'm good to go.
Why not just keep it simple:
Level 5 characters in Mirandas. Anything else goes.
I don't think the idea is to do some odd shuttle style match... the idea is to recreate a game where all the BS creep from the last year or two doesn't exist.
I think almost anyone that would be interested in running these matches would likely have at least one old toon they have just not bothered to keep current that could easily be stripped down to STO 2011.
1. No reps
2. No doffs
3. All modifiers removed from gear ... Reduced to white mk xii class
4. Turn off all traits
5. All c store and lock box consoles ... Active and passive are nullified
...
There was more but I don't recall it. This could single handily revive PvP and help bring new blood
- Judge Aaron Satie
Everything else seems reasonable. You can take off fleet consoles, avoid using fleet/lockbox ships, etc.
It's actually easier to remove a lock box trait than the rep passives. You either buy the reset token for dil, or buy a cheap lockbox trait box for the token.
But see, Cryptic isn't going to do it. That's why we have to do it ourselves. And maybe, if we can really get this going and get the devs' attention, they will implement a queue.
My suggestions would be:
-No gear above Mk XII White that can easily be obtained in Kerrat.
-No Universal Consoles
-No Rom Boff's
-No Lock box, Lobi, Fleet or C-Store store ships
I think mirror ships should be allowed. We need some variety and pretty much anyone has easy access to them IMO.
We all know Romulans themselves are OP but I don't think you can disqualify a whole faction. If the Romulan players are not using Romulan Boffs then it will be more reasonable. I dont think it's reasonable to restrict what BO powers are used. Grav well, FAW, etc. will not be as much of an issue as these matched will be putting people together randomly and you won't see a five man FAW team (well hopefully).
I hate aux2bat. It feels wrong using it and the game just doesn't feel fun with it, it feels cheap. Same with these insane fire at will ships that come into borg elites and solo 2 cubes while people who want to play non clown builds, and experience challenge (point of gaming to me), have to be a part of it and get all that taken away Then the person using a2b and faw calls us losers and uses the old fail word several times and leaves. Great Star Trek experience that is.
To be clear you do understand there would be no doffs, no plas leech etc? I don't know many people that would bother to use it at all under these conditions. What part of it's mechanic are you referring too?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
1. Then that negates having to play the grind which makes up the high level content for equipment and EC to buy the good stuff
2. Then you wouldn't have to buy all the Pay to Win and Cryptic wouldn't less money so they are not likely to go for that.:)
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac