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More powerful iconic ships?
kayajay
Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
I heard someone say something the other day that really got me thinking.
A lot of people play STO just so they can captain one of the ships they've seen in the films and series...Voyager, TOS Enterprise, etc...
The only problem is that the iconic ships have very meagre stats and console slots, so if you fly one and try to take it into STF or PvP...if you're up against the Elite system or someone who tanks or flies with a Bug for instance, you're blown out of the water!
Why can't the iconic ships be given better specs, even if you have to pay for those from the C-Store?
Or the ultimate...give us the ability to buy more console slots and to improve the stats, because that would make for a great game.
Imagine if you could have a bulk up your first ship, if you love that ship
A lot of people play STO just so they can captain one of the ships they've seen in the films and series...Voyager, TOS Enterprise, etc...
The only problem is that the iconic ships have very meagre stats and console slots, so if you fly one and try to take it into STF or PvP...if you're up against the Elite system or someone who tanks or flies with a Bug for instance, you're blown out of the water!
Why can't the iconic ships be given better specs, even if you have to pay for those from the C-Store?
Or the ultimate...give us the ability to buy more console slots and to improve the stats, because that would make for a great game.
Imagine if you could have a bulk up your first ship, if you love that ship
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I'm talking if you want an Enterprise-A or a Nova Class...yeah, you can have them, but you can't have a lot of fun when they're really only good for show.
Anyway, not gonna happen.
It has Tier 1 stats. Then as you progress in tier the ship levels a little getting better seating, more consoles available etc.
When the Enterprise D started the series it was good. As the show went on it tweaked and improved till it was great by the series end.
Have this as a reward for hitting level 50. Next new character gets an epic ship. A ship to command through their whole career.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
There are fleet level iconic ships but the boff seating and console layouts are what make them inferior. Exceptions to Cryptic's TRIBBLE on canon Trek ships are: Bug ship, Jem Dread, Scimitar, Mogai, Excelsior, Fleet Nebula. Maybe I'm forgetting some but in agreeing with the OP I'd like to see the Iconic canon Trek ships be the dominant ships in the game. The Galaxy and the D'Deridex are the two that come to mind. Though there should be a Klingon Bird of Prey in the mix there too. Maybe the B'rel. Though they killed it with that extra Engineering console slot. Engineering??!!
The Defiant needs a uni LTC and a standard cloak.
What.
Unless you're being cheap and trying to run Elite STFs in the T3 ships, there are T5 versions of all the major Star Trek ships.
Fleet/Long-Range Science Vessel Retrofit = Voyager
Fleet/Tactical Escort Retrofit = Defiant
Fleet/Refit/Assault Cruiser = Enterprise-E
Fleet/Exploration Cruiser Retrofit = Enterprise-D
If you're getting blown out of the water in these bad boys in Elite STFs, you're doing something very, very wrong. These are all good ships, and all easily capable of getting you through an ESTF unscathed, if you fly them right. None of them have "meagre stats and console slots".
The only one not on that list is a T5 Connie and I wouldn't go getting your hopes up because it Will. Not. Happen.
Saying that is like saying that the US Navy should revert to using the Yorktown-class rather than the Nimitz-class because the former is more iconic.
It's called progress. D'Deridex and Galaxy are both thirty or so years out of date by 2409.
Hell, the Galaxy was outdated when Star Trek: First Contact took place.
R.I.P
The Galaxy , D'Kora , hell anything that is supposed to be T5 ans still supports a 2 Tac console layout is indeed "meagre" and needs an update .
The D'Dax got saddled with a 3 Tac console layout and while unfortunate , that should be the minimum for T5 for ships of all classes .
It might . Eventually . When cannon no longer matters . Like it does now .
:rolleyes:
Please explain why the Fleet Excelsior and Fleet Ambassador are superior combat and support ships to the Fleet Galaxy. They're both older designs by a factor of decades.
Cryptic doesn't care about the canon age of each ship.
I've said this before but I maintain it:
I think there should be some kind of perk for having a low tactical focus given that the game's focus is largely damage.
Science - Eng - Tac consoles shouldn't be purely one to one. IMHO, something like, for every Tac console a ship has less than three, they get two Sci or Eng consoles.
One thing I think would do a lot for the Galaxy?
Make saucer sep a hangar slot item intead of a console, a mega-hangar pet. Or if you prefer, you can opt not to equip saucer sep and use a hangar pet instead.
And while flanking deserves a chance, I think a big change I'd look at for Klingons (and Romulans) would be:
The BoP should be de-penalized for its universals since the idea of a universal BO station penalty seems largely dead elsewhere.
ALL cloaks should be consoles for consistency's sake.
Buff singularity powers a bit to account for loss of a console.
Create a Klingon Valor system that encourages Klingon-style play. Like... You have rules of honor and you get bonus power that can be applied to Singularity-style specials for heeding those. You get Valor Charges for things like ramming an enemy or healing an ally with low health or holding aggro which can be spent on special Klingon maneuvers.
Perhaps more controversially, I'd make non-Klingon, non-Starfleet, non-Romulan ships cross faction. Most have been low sellers and need the boost. That would be Andorian, Caitian, Gorn, Nausicaan, Orion, and Vulcan. In turn, more Klingon subtle variations would be developed to better mirror the Romulan style progression and provide options for ships that would use the Valor mechanic.
By that same token I'd suggest getting rid of cloak consoles, but that only applies to the Defiant and Galaxy-X. Or if they have to be consoles, then make them be battlecloaks. Actually let's just make every cloak in the game a battlecloak, since that's what they've always been in the shows. But this is mainly because I hate the idea of there being two types of cloaking in the game.
And suddenly, Pandora's Box has been opened and we've got Defiants, Gal-X's and Avengers battlecloaking all over the shop.
Let's try to keep some reason to roll a toon as a Rom or a Klink.
giving options to change/upgrade it in regards to consoles/hull/BOff slots so everybody can fly the ship they like visually while staying competetive.
Of course it shouldn't be a free for all (Escort BOff and consoles on a Cruiser?) but giving a greater degree of custumization within a ship class would be great.
Alternatively ship costumes should become a much bigger deal:
You fly the ship you like for its stats and layout and give it the looks of another.
They could make mad Zen that way.
Say, a 500 Zen token that transfers the visuals and class of one ship onto another.
He's dead, Jim.
Strictly speaking I'm not happy that any of those ships can cloak anyway. The Defiant was a special case, and it was a Romulan cloak that was loaned to them with strings attached. The Enterprise-D refit we saw in All Good Things was an alternate timeline so it automatically doesn't count (or shouldn't, IMO). The only time we ever saw the Federation experiment with cloaking devices it didn't end well for the crew of the Pegasus.
So if you want to get down to it I'd prefer no Federation ship being able to cloak. At least the game sort of acknowledges this by making the cloaks a console, which suggests they're not a standard part of the design (other than the fact that only those ships can use those consoles, which is pretty silly but that's a whole 'nother rant). Virtually all Romulan ships can cloak, and they're battlecloaks. I'd like to see the KDF ships get that as well, since there's no real evidence to suggest that the Klingons weren't as adept at cloaks as the Romulans were. Ok, maybe make the Romulan version 'better', but give the KDF the same capability to cloak in Red Alert like their BoPs can, or give the BoP battlecloak a stronger buff on part with the Romulan BC or SOMETHING.
You're right, but you're forgetting something. In generations, the klingon BoP was an inferior ship to the enterprise. The only reason it had any chance of winning was because it had the shield frequency of the enterprise. In the game, BoP's outmatch the galaxy class by a lot. The OP is right, these ships need to be buffed to their proper standing.
Especially the Star Cruiser (which name they have stolen) got a big degradation with it's fleet counterpart. Did anyone notice that it's inertia even got doubled?
I know Cryptics devs don't like big ships Starfleet and tend to make them especailly weaker. But i think the (Fleet) Star Cruiser should get at least a Lt. Cmdr Science station in order to be a bit more unique.
A lot of crazy ideas get flung around on these boards, but I actually really like this idea a lot. It's always sort of bugged me that we jump to different ships while we level; the only time other captains changed ships was when the previous one was destroyed or decommissioned, or maybe when they were finally promoted from Captain to full on Admiral, or what have you. Otherwise, they were assigned to the same ship for pretty much their whole career.
It really should have been where, maybe after a few levels in your starter frigate to get your feet wet, you get to choose from all of the available ships from your faction and the one you choose grows in power with you. Obviously, you should be able to choose a different ship if you want, maybe for free at max level if you decide you made a big mistake in ship choice and at cost otherwise, but beyond that, a better effort should have been made to make it feel like the ship you command is YOUR ship, and not just something you are flying until you can get something better.
No, just no. These ships have built in cloaks, not tacked on cloaks, so no.
Yeah, but your scimitar is a glass cannon. All it has going for it is dps. If you can't kill a tanking ship that's supporting and buffing its teammates, then what use are you? As it stands, I think some galaxy retro builds out there would tear your ship apart with little effort. Especially one that is set up to deal with cloaking ships.
Most remaining issues can and will be fixed as more items are added to the game. the 2 360 degree beam weapons already introduced gives me hope that the other weapon types will receive the same type of weapon. The new fleet consoles are adding multiple abilities to increase stats. Once the warp core was added it also shows that the Dev's are open to adding components to ships. the addition of armor slots or even other devices for use should clear up many remaining issues.
the galaxy REALLY needs to be made similar to the d'deridex, give us that wonderful lt.cmd tac/sci and cmd. eng damnit.
or at LEAST give us variants(to other ships too), the star cruiser has a cool design(especially the nomad), yet its mostly useless(why fly it, when there are so many ships that are better at its job).
BoPs outmatch the Galaxy class by a lot? Heh. Doubtful.
In PvP, try attacking a Galaxy (whether it be the retrofit or the fleet version) that's piloted by a competent player (i.e., one that doesn't succumb to decloak alphastrikes) with a single BoP. See how far that gets you. Outside of some arguably broken mechanics, it ain't gonna end very well. The Galaxy can shrug off the attacks from a BoP and lay down pressure fire that'll force the BoP to withdraw.
That being said, the Galaxy IS kinda weak compared to cruisers like the Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Fleet Excelsior). I mean, just by dint of the movement stats it's kinda outmatched. Excelsior gets 8 turnrate and 40 inertia, the bloody thing can maneuver as well as a KDF battlecruiser. I just wanted to point out that, all things being equal, the BoP would have a hell of a time trying to take down a Galaxy-R or Fleet Galaxy. It would all depend on how the decloak-ambush bit went.
To add onto what you're saying:
Nobody is denying how sturdy the ENG-heavy ships like the Galaxy are. The problem is the game has literally made them obsolete, because this game cares about 1 thing only in gameplay:
MOAR DAMAGE
Moar Damage makes the game easier. If something is giving you problems, you need to apply more damage. If your heals can't keep up, your defenses not up to snuff, chances are, the content demands you to do moar damage. If a teammate is having trouble, you need to do "moar damage" and kill his assailant quicker, then badger your teammate for not doing "moar damage" to the enemy before it put him in a bind.
If you're out there in a SCI / ENG healboat, STOP. You are useless to your team. Practically the highest DPS oriented ships have just enough self-heals that they don't need you. They'll say "Thanks" as a courtesy if you do heal them, but by and large, even a Prometheus and Defiant has just enough to take care of themselves if played right. As a healboat, you're not making the content easier for your team. Why? Because you're not doing "moar damage." You're doing very little and therefore, making the team take longer, not doing enough damage in burning targets down even faster before healing is even required.
And that's why bonafide "Tanks" and I'll say even healboats are unnecessary in today's STO.
The game is built upon damage and nothing else, and playing that kind of support role is a hindrance.
That's why the Galaxy and such are deemed so poorly, despite being unbreakable. There is absolutely nothing in this game that needs bonafide tanks, bonafide healboats. This game is built about DPS and offensive Sci capabilities (which has only returned recently, though not in the full glory of STO's release days).
That particular BoP was also twenty years older than the Enterprise. DS9 had B'rels, particularly the Rotarran, one-shotting Jem bugs left and right.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Heck yeah!
Galaxy -R, Sovereign, Intrepid and Defiant should get their Lt. Cmdr BOFF station made universal. So these ships could still be used by their fans in the coming years.
To be honest i am tired of seing Jem haddar Dreanoughts, bug ships and other non Starfleet ships outperform STOs major factions ships.
Starfleet in STO look more like a Star Trek circus than the fleet we know from TV and the movies. There are WAY too many alien ships which outperform Starfleet ships by far.
Thats just how weak Fed and kdf ships are compared to the romulans
I know i have 3 fed and 3 kdf romulans and they can smoke my fed and klinkon counterparts
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse