Ship movement question,

shadowfury118 · December 2013

I've wondered, why is ship movement so restricted, can't go straight up, can't go straight down, why is the movement like that?

Is there some sort of reason for this that I just cannot find? If so, please tell me, I'd love to know.

gilion · December 2013

simply its just because Cryptic designed it that way. One reason is most likely because since the game engine doesn't allow for attacks from above and below they didnt see any reason to allow you to go strait up or down. Though I dont think they ever actually said why you cant go strait up or down.

ursusmorologus · December 2013

shadowfury118 wrote: »

I've wondered, why is ship movement so restricted, can't go straight up, can't go straight down, why is the movement like that?

Is there some sort of reason for this that I just cannot find? If so, please tell me, I'd love to know.

Why does ESD have a disco and dress-up dolls? STO tries to attract a broad player base, and de-emphasizes things that require actual skill. In space, there is no aiming, no strafing, no looping, etc., requiring these things would alienate portion of the player community that doesnt care about them. Also there is no free-form dance that would require skill from the social players. In all cases, you press a button, you get your cookie.

dahminus · December 2013

Yeah. There's a reason that you didn't find and it is more of a cop out answer.

Full access if the "Z" axis will cause a very small amount of people to experience some form of movement sickness. Rather then not alienated this small group. They put a "fixed" incline/decline.

Also, "it isn't possible with the game engine" came up a few times.

The incline/decline actually use to be more restricted. So we know they can change it...they just haven't given a real reason why

stirling191 · December 2013

dahminus wrote: »

Also, "it isn't possible with the game engine" came up a few times.

Given that you can move fully vertical in Champions, which uses the same engine, that's a decidedly false argument.

Besides, you would only need to allow a +/- 90 degree movement arc to allow for full Z axis movement.

dahminus · December 2013

Oh I know. That's just the most common vs excuse that comes up

coupaholic · December 2013

I'll guess it is to save players feeling disorientated following a dogfight or some evasive movements.

defileddragon · December 2013

But space is 3D!

misterde3 · December 2013

dahminus wrote: »

Also, "it isn't possible with the game engine" came up a few times.

Just never by the DEVs. On the contrary, they've explicitly said it's not an engine limitation.

So this nonsense is probably from the same kind of people who claim Elvis and Jesus are sitting on one of the Saturn moons drinking tea together.;)

maxvitor · December 2013

This is an old subject. There is no limitation to the engine for this, Champions Online uses the same engine yet it has no limitations on 3d flight, the limitations here have been arbitrarily set by the developers.
One of the reasons was because of complaints that some users could get disoriented (Don't ask me how that is even possible with auto-righting), another was a supposed CBS prohibition against ships flying inverted and part of the reason is to maintain the appearance of how Star Trek ships look flying through space, Star Trek ships fly like big planes or ships at sea, they don't normally fly like fighters or do weird 3D maneuvers. That said there is no reason why pitch angle restrictions couldn't be relaxed some as well as enabling z axis translation for ascend/descend.

sonnikku · December 2013

shadowfury118 wrote: »

I've wondered, why is ship movement so restricted, can't go straight up, can't go straight down, why is the movement like that?

Is there some sort of reason for this that I just cannot find? If so, please tell me, I'd love to know.

In Bridge Commander they actually do let you fly every which way. And when I played large group games with dozens of ships they were ALL over the place. I'd be fighting warbirds upside down and at bizarre angles relative to myself. There is no "upside down" in space, perhaps. But it did look goofy. Not at all like the shows. That was probably why.

I suppose it was kind of neat performing a Yeager roll like maneuvers with the Defiant and hitting the underbelly of a romulan warbird were it's warp core was most vulnerable. But it really was a completely different game and isn't compatible with STO at all.

ghyudt · December 2013

Hey, since we're on the subject, why is it possible to get a steeper angle up or down when going straight, but while turning its restricted?

ursusmorologus · December 2013

sonnikku wrote: »

In Bridge Commander they actually do let you fly every which way. And when I played large group games with dozens of ships they were ALL over the place. I'd be fighting warbirds upside down and at bizarre angles relative to myself. There is no "upside down" in space, perhaps. But it did look goofy. Not at all like the shows. That was probably why.

I suppose it was kind of neat performing a Yeager roll like maneuvers with the Defiant and hitting the underbelly of a romulan warbird were it's warp core was most vulnerable. But it really was a completely different game and isn't compatible with STO at all.

I've mentioned a few times that I play on a modded Freelancer server. It also has full 3D flight, you can do loops and rolls, strafe laterally and vertically, and do all of it at the same time. But in order to keep it from getting completely weird it also has a built-in levelling funciton, so most of the time people are flying on the same horizontal axis even though they might be on different planes. When combined with the manual weapons fire, it allows for some interesting dynamics, things like ships that are tall and thin are able to fly vertical loops around their target so they present a thin edge profile while maximizing weapons on target. Very skill oriented. Noobs have a really hard time with it and the vets are miles ahead. Skill gap is grand canyon. Star Citizen will probably be similar.

timezarg · December 2013

deokkent wrote: »

The issue now is that people take advantage of this lack of z axis in pvp. You see people spiraling up/down and it locks up people's weapons shooting at them. Just go in kerrat, a BoP just needs to move in circles up and down and you will never shoot it down.

Exploit or skill? I don't know.

That's why you immobilize the BoP. That's how you kill escorts and BoPs, by killing their speed and maneuvering. A lot of their defense relies on said speed and maneuvering.

szerontzur · December 2013

Why restrict movement? For Playability.

Fighting in three dimensions might be 'realistic', but so is managing bowel movements and scrubbing dirty bulkheads. Games become fun by creating abstractions that take out the convoluted and tedious details of reality.

Even the original Homeworld game used implied planes to help make things more controllable and manageable. (Maps had a 'top' and 'bottom' and the camera was not entirely free of axis and orientation.)

For better or worse, most battles in Star Trek occurred as they do in STO. The Wrath of Khan even poked fun at this, while also establishing it as a standard for the series.

maxvitor · December 2013

That may be so, but allowing ascending and descending won't break the game and I believe weapon arc restrictions aren't limited to a horizontal plane, even if you can't turn your ship straight up or down you can still clearly shoot straight above or below you if it is within the arc limit of your weapon type. There aren't really a lot of valid arguments against full 3D mobility other than the esthetics issue. From a playability standpoint, the random 3D positioning of targets in missions requiring players to repeatedly make radical incline maneuvers is a strong argument for allowing more mobility.

zipagat · December 2013

I am pretty sure it was mentioned near launch that it is that way so space combat feels more like Trek on the screens as they mostly move on a 2D plane with a few exceptions. They did actually up the up and down movement max in the first year of the game to if I recall at peoples request.

assimilatedktar · December 2013

Yeah, this is about making the combat actually look like Star Trek. Starfleet Academy had full 3D maneuverability and it was the only bad part about it. Constantly fighting ships that were upside down compared to you doesn't feel Trek at all.

lordfuzun · December 2013

gilion wrote: »

simply its just because Cryptic designed it that way. One reason is most likely because since the game engine doesn't allow for attacks from above and below they didnt see any reason to allow you to go strait up or down. Though I dont think they ever actually said why you cant go strait up or down.

Movement limitation in the game absolutely nothing to do with the game engine capabilities. They are design limitation implemented within the game engine. Cryptic had to add code to the engine in order to limit ship and camera movements. Without those limiters, the game engine is fully 360 degree movement capable.

maxvitor · December 2013

zipagat wrote: »

I am pretty sure it was mentioned near launch that it is that way so space combat feels more like Trek on the screens as they mostly move on a 2D plane with a few exceptions. They did actually up the up and down movement max in the first year of the game to if I recall at peoples request.

That argument would be acceptable if everything in a mission map was restricted in its placement vertically, but this game is very 3 Dimensional with many maps requiring a great deal of vertical maneuvering, as it is the current pitch angle limit is a serious inconvenience and it just looks silly.

sophus84at · December 2013

Because Cryptic is fully made out of Augments, and everybody knows, Augments can just think in 2D in Space Combat.
otherwise all the Players would hide in a Nebula and would attack from above or beyond when a DEV would be online.

But then again a TWOK PvP map would be awesome.....

maxvitor · December 2013

Ya but unlike TWOK we can't pop up out of a nebula to shoot Khan in the backside.

oldkirkfan · December 2013

dahminus wrote: »

Yeah. There's a reason that you didn't find and it is more of a cop out answer.

Full access if the "Z" axis will cause a very small amount of people to experience some form of movement sickness. Rather then not alienated this small group. They put a "fixed" incline/decline.

Also, "it isn't possible with the game engine" came up a few times.

The incline/decline actually use to be more restricted. So we know they can change it...they just haven't given a real reason why

lol. Yet they allow the 'disco balls' that cause Epileptic seizures...?

oschw · December 2013

crashdragon wrote: »

It isn't possible with the game engine, this after saying that some testers got confused and disoriented and it was taken out.

So which is it? I trust Q more then the Dev's with explanations.

And if you would read the full topic, you would have figured by now, that "engine limitations" was NEVER stated by the devs...

harveyclone · December 2013

This is not Top Gun online,would be fun to fly in from the above but how many would keep doing the loop-the-loop in an STF

maxvitor · December 2013

No it isn't an air combat simulator, it's a game involving spaceflight and although nobody is looking to be doing tight ballistic maneuvers there surely must be a compromise that would allow players to traverse vertical distances without having to drive up and down the ridiculous spiral parking garage.

Ship movement question,

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