Because one time you spend $199 (when was on sale) does not mean you $199 are better than the $1000 I have spent over time, I have given more money to this company than you and now you think you are better than us? What a farce.
no one thinks they are better then you, but maybe its just that you think less of yourself because you spent all that cash and didn't think to get a LTS.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
no one thinks they are better then you, but maybe its just that you think less of yourself because you spent all that cash and didn't think to get a LTS.
I can't believe he spent over a grand and DIDN'T think to buy a LTS. :eek:
they have invented this clever thing called "saving" so when you cant afford something you can put a little to one side and after some time you will have enough for what you want, they have also come up with these special place`s that will help you "save" I believe they call them "banks"
If you think banks are a good idea to keep your money at uhm, that invalidates your whole oppinion :P
Joke aside, as a non sub. (because cryptic/pwe offers no way of paying for it, that i would use) i have to say, i think (as much as i would like it) the idea (of giving non subs the vet rewards for the mentioned reason) is stupid and unfair, sure i spend more in this game then a LTS would have cost me, but i got what i spend my money for, and thats NOT vet rewards.
Vet rewards are handed out for paying a sub or getting the LTS, that part of what you pay for, if you decide to buy something else, fine, but you have no right for vet rewards then, no matter how much you did spend, because you got what you paid for.
can any one name a top mmo that dose what some here are wanting?
On Rift, you can earn the same loyalty reward (=veteran reward) by spending money on the cash shop, subs, or even buying items on the cash shop. Also, you have this item you can buy on the cash shop, and then sell it for ingame money on the HV. Once used, it grant some cash shop money. Similar to the PLEX on eve, or close to the dil/zen trade. Those cash shop point can then be used to buy items, and it reward loyalty.
In the end, you can unlock everything without paying. Ofc, that mean you need to grind like a bot, but it's possible.
I know this is easier said than done for a lot of people but you do have money, your throwing it away bit by bit on the c-store! If you just save the money up you could have your lifetime sub by now.
If you have money to spend on the game, you're perfectly capable of getting a lifetime subscription. Instead of dropping a little here and there, save it, put it in a jar or box or something, and when you have 300 saved, get the lifer. I did exactly this. Took a while, and it wasn't easy, but I did it. Now I don't have to spend another dime here. I just wait 1 month and I have free money. If you're worried about "special offer" items, don't be. You can almost always find them in the exchange, or wait and they'll be around again or in the c-store.
I am probably one of the OP's Hate Targets - though an LTSer I have spent nothing on the game since mid 2012, mainly because at that point I realised how devastatingly effective dil farming with 3 KDF toons is.
However, there is an issue here of "get what you paid for". I bought my LTS in a sale on the calculation I did not want to lose my subscriber benefits, and would be playing long enough for it to be worthwhile. I have consciously avoided lockboxes on the grounds that I don't want any of the ships or most of the gear they offer, and I'd rather play the exchange for a guaranteed result than gamble real money.
So what... we all make spending decisions, and being an LTS does not get you lockbox or c-store ships, just a few fairly cosmetic accessories apart from the Vet destroyers (which are good by arguably not lockbox level). If someone chose to spend $1000 on virtual items and now feels short changed... well, it is at best poor judgement.
I am also reminded of a player from my days doing tabletop games, who complained that he spent ?300 on a miniatures game which was dropped (from Games Workshop's active support) after a year. When pointed out that the game only required ?50 of figures to play - as it was a skirmish game - his response was "well it's hard to stop spending money". Some people.... QED.
It isn't about the money. It is about the commitment. Subscribers are willing to do something I currently am not. They should be recognized for this. There should be items which someone like myself does not have access to without subscribing. I spend money on this game, yes. But I do so when it suits me and in the amount that suits me.
Just because I have spent large amounts of money in the past does not mean I will continue to do so in the future. Nor does it entitle me to perks. If I bought a cheeseburger every day from McDonald's last month, does this mean I am entitled to a free cheeseburger tomorrow? No.
Just because I have spent large amounts of money in the past does not mean I am entitled to publicly browbeat pwe/cryptic in the present at every opportunity. Such behavior is rude and ill mannered.
Entitlement. Commitment. The first word is badly overused and the second one is avoided at all costs in the 21st Century. Especially on the Internet.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Here is a crazy idea. Put a 1 month gold subscription in the c-store for 1500 zen. That way if they cannot afford it they can still grind it out over time.
i have had a years sub at launch, then went gold, now have the Lifetime, and the most expensive Romulus package.
bought Cryptic points and Zen every time i wanted to say thank you or needed some quick Lobi.
together far more than 300 or 500 dollar.
conclusion: you wanna vet rewards - buy lifetime. the game is getting better by season, and is here to stay. you will leave for a year, come back and your Zen will be waiting.
unfair enough that you get all the vet rewards at once after just one payment.
Only if the devs code it so the month's sub can only be purchased with Zen bought with real money.
Does it really matter at that point? The zen on the exchange some one paid for. it would be the same argument all over again. I get your dil you get my zen. They get their gold and some one else bought it for them.
If you want it to seem more fair just change the c-store version of gold not to give a stipend.
If you want it to seem more fair just change the c-store version of gold not to give a stipend.
... though at that point, they might as well drop the price to $9.99 instead of $14.99. :rolleyes:
Seriously, though, he's right - the devs have stated multiple times that ALL "Zen" in the dilithium exchange was purchased by someone. None of it is generated by the servers. It's a trade-off - people with money spend that money so they don't have to spend the TIME grinding out dilithium. In return, people with less money and more time get Zen to spend in the cash shop. We're talking about the same exchange in this case - you trade dilithium to someone in exchange for a 1-month pre-paid time card.
As a lifetimer, Legacy Pack owner, and prior regular Zen purchaser, I have no problem with that particular solution. Let people buy subscription time with Zen.
So im basically brand new to the game. i played very briefly when STO first started but after that I didnt play.
I do play Champions Online with a LTS so I feel that although I am new to STO i can make an informed post about this subject.
I would like to see veteran rewards for zen spent in the c-store. Something like spend x amount (total throughout the lifetime of your account) and get the 100 day reward, spend y amount and get the 500 day, spend z and get the 1000 day reward. However make it where you have to spend more than if you just subbed. So LTS is 300, subbing for for the 1000 day would cost around 500. Perhaps make it so where if you spent $1500 or $2000 you can get the 1000 day reward. Of course as you spent money you would get access to the other rewards along the way up to spending the 2000.
I think this system can show to players who do not sub BUT who obviously support the game and nice and hearty thank you.
Because one time you spend $199 (when was on sale) does not mean you $199 are better than the $1000 I have spent over time, I have given more money to this company than you and now you think you are better than us? What a farce.
Let me guess, you think that people who buy the lifetime never spend another cent on this game? That every thing is handed to them for free from that point forward?
If that were the case, I would have every thing in the c-store, all the lock box ships, everything in lobi store, etc.
I have a lifetime, and I have spent as much money as you, if not more, on the things that I want.
Getting the lifetime does NOT give you anything in the various stores in the game.
Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
By offering subscriber rewards to non subscribers defeats the purpose of having them. Quite frankly if you ant these rewards buy a subscription. It's simple really. I don't care how much you spend in the store, I buy from there too and I am a subscriber.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
OP, firstly thank you for supporting STO financially.
I, too, came to the game when it went FtP, I spent money on it (although not as much as you), before eventually buying the LTS when it went on sale.
I'm afraid though, that your argument isnt valid.
Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
This is an important philosophical underpinning of any economy that relies on buying and selling.
We dont get do-overs when it comes to money, except in rigorously defined circumstances usually involving fraud.
There's no fraud here. The rewards and benefits have been correctly published upfront.
You're not entitled to vet rewards, because you didn't buy them. You bought other things instead.
To insist you have a moral case to essentially renegotiate your financial dealing with Cryptic is wrong.
However, there is a case in my view for a big spender reward program.
It shouldn;t offer any of the same rewards as the vet schemes and should stand alone.
My suggestiion would be for a very simple scheme.
At 10,000 zen bought you get an account wide increase of 500 on your dilithium refining cap.
At 30,000 zen a total increase of 1000, at 50,000 zen another 500 on top.
Finally at 100,000 zen bought you get an additional 500 dilithium on your cap for a final total of 2000, bringing your dilithium refining cap to 10k a day.
Simple and useful reward that doesn't invalidate anyones elses buying decision.
I can understand that f2p peeps want the rewards, but they are not come all end all.
Sure the vet ships are nice, but they are not a "must" have, as there are other ships that perform as good, if not better than the vet ships, wich is what I gather most f2p peeps wants, and maybe those spiffy combat EVA suits...
I think the idea of a different customer loyalty package for spending, with or without the same rewards, is a good idea.
Granted, one way to accomplish the same idea would be to offer Lobi (prorated to the dollar value of the purchase) on initial purchase of all C-Store items as Lobi is basically a customer loyalty program.
Then maybe add some similar perks to Vet rewards to the Lobi store like an android BOff token or the Vet ship (or perhaps a slight console layout variation of it).
all i see from this thread is i spent more more than 300$ so i want something back....... get this you get all story mission for free and a lot more FOR FREE
let me put it this way ive got a life time sub 300$ right now let me add on the 2 years i sub to the game before i got a life time sub oh let me add on this all the cstore stuff i got over 4 years need i go on? oh ya not counting what i have spend on lockbox ships oh ya i forgot i do have the romulan legacy pack being sarcastic here
>>>>>> now that i think about it i think i should get something back.............
You don't think they also want the free respecs which which add up to a lot of money?
Well, from my experience, it's the tangible rewards like the vet ships and combat EVA suits I see asked for the most. These rewards have a certain "bling" factor, whilst the respecs are not something you can't really show off.
The respecs are very nice to be sure, but they lack the "see what I have" factor...
The original question feels like:
"I went to the car dealership and bought all of the parts for a whole car, at full total price of $70,000. Why can't I get the five year warranty that comes with a new car for someone who only paid $35,000 all at once?"
Our experiences differ. I've seen more free players complain about respecs being too expensive and how it's unfair subscribers get them for free as they level up characters.
I have seen that about respecs aswell, but mostly it's in game I get asked about the vet ships and the combat EVA suits.
The respecs are a tad expensive, but so are the LTS sub...
I think the sad part of this thread is I remember when we went free to play and the forums were talking about if it is worth being gold or if it was even worth buy the lts at this point.
I also remember post with the math break down and one of the key things were the respec tokens and people didn't see the value.
The other thing that came up was recommending that people buy the collector's edition for while they level toons and get the red matter capacitor at the same time.
Since it is still possible to go gold for a single month, I would still recommend going gold for anyone leveling a toon.
The vet rewards only account for 4 respec tokens. All these other tokens are for leveling up and are not vet rewards. If you want respec tokens then go gold for a month when you make a toon.
When it comes to bank slots. Again these are not veteran rewards. You get those by leveling up. When you go gold they get unlocked retroactively and stay unlocked once you go silver. If you have 5 toons and go gold for one month I assure you that you are not missing out since you will get all that space automatically.
Our experiences differ. I've seen more free players complain about respecs being too expensive and how it's unfair subscribers get them for free as they level up characters.
LMAO! Ummm... Because they pay for them... not a hard concept to grasp. If you sub its like buying 1500 zen a month and so you get some respecs included.
If you don't sub well you decided to go ala carte and pay for every little thing you want... It's like I decide to fly Southwest and everything is in the price of my ticket or I decide to fly Spirit, yes cheaper airfare, but I pay for the seat choice, the luggage, the soda, the peanuts, etc.
The answer is simple when you sub you pay for things on the sub matrix and if you don't you get what you pay for as you go. If you want respecs then buy them or sub for the package purchase option vs the ala carte option. We all spend money on the game. The perks you get are for the choices you make and it's all spelled out for you upfront.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
The Gold and LTS people in addition to their LTS or monthly Gold subs also tend to buy Zen as well to get things, the stipend we get is not that much. Your Zen is not more valuable than ours.
LMAO! Ummm... Because they pay for them... not a hard concept to grasp. If you sub its like buying 1500 zen a month and so you get some respecs included.
If you don't sub well you decided to go ala carte and pay for every little thing you want... It's like I decide to fly Southwest and everything is in the price of my ticket or I decide to fly Spirit, yes cheaper airfare, but I pay for the seat choice, the luggage, the soda, the peanuts, etc.
The answer is simple when you sub you pay for things on the sub matrix and if you don't you get what you pay for as you go. If you want respecs then buy them or sub for the package purchase option vs the ala carte option. We all spend money on the game. The perks you get are for the choices you make and it's all spelled out for you upfront.
It would be better to not say that the vet rewards are free, but rather than they are complementary. We don't get "Free zen" as Gold, or LTS, we don't get "free respecs", we don't get "Free ship slots" or "free uniform items" or "free ships", they are all complementary for being a subscriber and paying the LTS fee or the gold sub. They're part of the complementary package that comes with the subscription we are paying for. And when we want that new c-store ship, we have to shell out zen just like everyone else.
Subscribers get vet rewards.
Gambler get Lobi as accumulating (vet) reward for opening a lot of boxes.
Buying a certain amount of Zen will give you bonus Zen as instant gratification.
Unless you count the fleet ship discount, c-store purchases are the only area lacking some kind of additional incentive/vet reward. I wouldn't mind if an additional reward setup, either similar to the lobi store or the vet rewards, would be added for cstore purchases. However I doubt they will/can add anything now: Either they would have to honor old purchases, defeating the purpose as many would get the rewards instantly, or only new purchases are subject to such new rewards. In that case they would upset their best customers. Lose/lose.
Comments
no one thinks they are better then you, but maybe its just that you think less of yourself because you spent all that cash and didn't think to get a LTS.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I can't believe he spent over a grand and DIDN'T think to buy a LTS. :eek:
If you think banks are a good idea to keep your money at uhm, that invalidates your whole oppinion :P
Joke aside, as a non sub. (because cryptic/pwe offers no way of paying for it, that i would use) i have to say, i think (as much as i would like it) the idea (of giving non subs the vet rewards for the mentioned reason) is stupid and unfair, sure i spend more in this game then a LTS would have cost me, but i got what i spend my money for, and thats NOT vet rewards.
Vet rewards are handed out for paying a sub or getting the LTS, that part of what you pay for, if you decide to buy something else, fine, but you have no right for vet rewards then, no matter how much you did spend, because you got what you paid for.
In the end, you can unlock everything without paying. Ofc, that mean you need to grind like a bot, but it's possible.
However, there is an issue here of "get what you paid for". I bought my LTS in a sale on the calculation I did not want to lose my subscriber benefits, and would be playing long enough for it to be worthwhile. I have consciously avoided lockboxes on the grounds that I don't want any of the ships or most of the gear they offer, and I'd rather play the exchange for a guaranteed result than gamble real money.
So what... we all make spending decisions, and being an LTS does not get you lockbox or c-store ships, just a few fairly cosmetic accessories apart from the Vet destroyers (which are good by arguably not lockbox level). If someone chose to spend $1000 on virtual items and now feels short changed... well, it is at best poor judgement.
I am also reminded of a player from my days doing tabletop games, who complained that he spent ?300 on a miniatures game which was dropped (from Games Workshop's active support) after a year. When pointed out that the game only required ?50 of figures to play - as it was a skirmish game - his response was "well it's hard to stop spending money". Some people.... QED.
Just because I have spent large amounts of money in the past does not mean I will continue to do so in the future. Nor does it entitle me to perks. If I bought a cheeseburger every day from McDonald's last month, does this mean I am entitled to a free cheeseburger tomorrow? No.
Just because I have spent large amounts of money in the past does not mean I am entitled to publicly browbeat pwe/cryptic in the present at every opportunity. Such behavior is rude and ill mannered.
Entitlement. Commitment. The first word is badly overused and the second one is avoided at all costs in the 21st Century. Especially on the Internet.
bought Cryptic points and Zen every time i wanted to say thank you or needed some quick Lobi.
together far more than 300 or 500 dollar.
conclusion: you wanna vet rewards - buy lifetime. the game is getting better by season, and is here to stay. you will leave for a year, come back and your Zen will be waiting.
unfair enough that you get all the vet rewards at once after just one payment.
Does it really matter at that point? The zen on the exchange some one paid for. it would be the same argument all over again. I get your dil you get my zen. They get their gold and some one else bought it for them.
If you want it to seem more fair just change the c-store version of gold not to give a stipend.
... though at that point, they might as well drop the price to $9.99 instead of $14.99. :rolleyes:
Seriously, though, he's right - the devs have stated multiple times that ALL "Zen" in the dilithium exchange was purchased by someone. None of it is generated by the servers. It's a trade-off - people with money spend that money so they don't have to spend the TIME grinding out dilithium. In return, people with less money and more time get Zen to spend in the cash shop. We're talking about the same exchange in this case - you trade dilithium to someone in exchange for a 1-month pre-paid time card.
As a lifetimer, Legacy Pack owner, and prior regular Zen purchaser, I have no problem with that particular solution. Let people buy subscription time with Zen.
I do play Champions Online with a LTS so I feel that although I am new to STO i can make an informed post about this subject.
I would like to see veteran rewards for zen spent in the c-store. Something like spend x amount (total throughout the lifetime of your account) and get the 100 day reward, spend y amount and get the 500 day, spend z and get the 1000 day reward. However make it where you have to spend more than if you just subbed. So LTS is 300, subbing for for the 1000 day would cost around 500. Perhaps make it so where if you spent $1500 or $2000 you can get the 1000 day reward. Of course as you spent money you would get access to the other rewards along the way up to spending the 2000.
I think this system can show to players who do not sub BUT who obviously support the game and nice and hearty thank you.
Let me guess, you think that people who buy the lifetime never spend another cent on this game? That every thing is handed to them for free from that point forward?
If that were the case, I would have every thing in the c-store, all the lock box ships, everything in lobi store, etc.
I have a lifetime, and I have spent as much money as you, if not more, on the things that I want.
Getting the lifetime does NOT give you anything in the various stores in the game.
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
OP, firstly thank you for supporting STO financially.
I, too, came to the game when it went FtP, I spent money on it (although not as much as you), before eventually buying the LTS when it went on sale.
I'm afraid though, that your argument isnt valid.
Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
This is an important philosophical underpinning of any economy that relies on buying and selling.
We dont get do-overs when it comes to money, except in rigorously defined circumstances usually involving fraud.
There's no fraud here. The rewards and benefits have been correctly published upfront.
You're not entitled to vet rewards, because you didn't buy them. You bought other things instead.
To insist you have a moral case to essentially renegotiate your financial dealing with Cryptic is wrong.
However, there is a case in my view for a big spender reward program.
It shouldn;t offer any of the same rewards as the vet schemes and should stand alone.
My suggestiion would be for a very simple scheme.
At 10,000 zen bought you get an account wide increase of 500 on your dilithium refining cap.
At 30,000 zen a total increase of 1000, at 50,000 zen another 500 on top.
Finally at 100,000 zen bought you get an additional 500 dilithium on your cap for a final total of 2000, bringing your dilithium refining cap to 10k a day.
Simple and useful reward that doesn't invalidate anyones elses buying decision.
As it is, the vet rewards should stay exclusive.
I can understand that f2p peeps want the rewards, but they are not come all end all.
Sure the vet ships are nice, but they are not a "must" have, as there are other ships that perform as good, if not better than the vet ships, wich is what I gather most f2p peeps wants, and maybe those spiffy combat EVA suits...
Granted, one way to accomplish the same idea would be to offer Lobi (prorated to the dollar value of the purchase) on initial purchase of all C-Store items as Lobi is basically a customer loyalty program.
Then maybe add some similar perks to Vet rewards to the Lobi store like an android BOff token or the Vet ship (or perhaps a slight console layout variation of it).
let me put it this way ive got a life time sub 300$ right now let me add on the 2 years i sub to the game before i got a life time sub oh let me add on this all the cstore stuff i got over 4 years need i go on? oh ya not counting what i have spend on lockbox ships oh ya i forgot i do have the romulan legacy pack being sarcastic here
>>>>>> now that i think about it i think i should get something back.............
system Lord Baal is dead
Well, from my experience, it's the tangible rewards like the vet ships and combat EVA suits I see asked for the most. These rewards have a certain "bling" factor, whilst the respecs are not something you can't really show off.
The respecs are very nice to be sure, but they lack the "see what I have" factor...
"I went to the car dealership and bought all of the parts for a whole car, at full total price of $70,000. Why can't I get the five year warranty that comes with a new car for someone who only paid $35,000 all at once?"
Not.
How.
It.
Works.
I have seen that about respecs aswell, but mostly it's in game I get asked about the vet ships and the combat EVA suits.
The respecs are a tad expensive, but so are the LTS sub...
To be fair, it was the respecs and the inventory space that made me buy the LTS.
The destroyers are fine, but those QoL benefits swung the deal.
I also remember post with the math break down and one of the key things were the respec tokens and people didn't see the value.
The other thing that came up was recommending that people buy the collector's edition for while they level toons and get the red matter capacitor at the same time.
Since it is still possible to go gold for a single month, I would still recommend going gold for anyone leveling a toon.
The vet rewards only account for 4 respec tokens. All these other tokens are for leveling up and are not vet rewards. If you want respec tokens then go gold for a month when you make a toon.
When it comes to bank slots. Again these are not veteran rewards. You get those by leveling up. When you go gold they get unlocked retroactively and stay unlocked once you go silver. If you have 5 toons and go gold for one month I assure you that you are not missing out since you will get all that space automatically.
So what are the vet rewads
http://sto.perfectworld.com/community/veteran-rewards
What is gold?
http://sto.perfectworld.com/about/freetoplay/features-matrix
This should clear up the difference between vet rewards and being gold. Most of the stuff you can get from going gold. Even if it is only once.
LMAO! Ummm... Because they pay for them... not a hard concept to grasp. If you sub its like buying 1500 zen a month and so you get some respecs included.
If you don't sub well you decided to go ala carte and pay for every little thing you want... It's like I decide to fly Southwest and everything is in the price of my ticket or I decide to fly Spirit, yes cheaper airfare, but I pay for the seat choice, the luggage, the soda, the peanuts, etc.
The answer is simple when you sub you pay for things on the sub matrix and if you don't you get what you pay for as you go. If you want respecs then buy them or sub for the package purchase option vs the ala carte option. We all spend money on the game. The perks you get are for the choices you make and it's all spelled out for you upfront.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
It would be better to not say that the vet rewards are free, but rather than they are complementary. We don't get "Free zen" as Gold, or LTS, we don't get "free respecs", we don't get "Free ship slots" or "free uniform items" or "free ships", they are all complementary for being a subscriber and paying the LTS fee or the gold sub. They're part of the complementary package that comes with the subscription we are paying for. And when we want that new c-store ship, we have to shell out zen just like everyone else.
Gambler get Lobi as accumulating (vet) reward for opening a lot of boxes.
Buying a certain amount of Zen will give you bonus Zen as instant gratification.
Unless you count the fleet ship discount, c-store purchases are the only area lacking some kind of additional incentive/vet reward. I wouldn't mind if an additional reward setup, either similar to the lobi store or the vet rewards, would be added for cstore purchases. However I doubt they will/can add anything now: Either they would have to honor old purchases, defeating the purpose as many would get the rewards instantly, or only new purchases are subject to such new rewards. In that case they would upset their best customers. Lose/lose.
To be fair, "free gift! (...with your paid subscription)" is a phrase that confuses a lot of people in a lot of circumstances.