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The two aspects of Reputation
mimey2
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Now, to any mods who may see this, I'll be talking a lot about Dyson rep in this post, but I must ask that you please do NOT move or merge this thread. I'll be talking about Dyson rep a lot, but this thread is more on rep in general.
Alrighty, this is probably gonna be a long one folks.
So, over time, I've come to notice that there's two primary aspects to the reputation system:
Rep-level grind, and gear grind.
Rep-leveling grind is the bigger part here. This is the part that people gripe about. Because this is the part you cannot avoid. It cannot really be shortened, avoided, or otherwise gotten rid of, if you want it done. You MUST do it on every single character that you want to get through rep, or else you get nothing.
It has gotten much better, gotten much worse, and also not changed at all with the addition of Dyson rep.
It's better in that not only can you keep a good amount of progression going by just filling the 2500 xp project each day (which, once the get the bugs worked out, will be about 15 minutes of game time for a commendation) and requires no other imputs, with the OPTION of doing more, but spending marks. (On a side note, it's nice not to have to spend so much damn Expertise on the new rep)
It's theoretically better with the new sponsorship tokens. I say it like that, because, putting aside the issue of requiring account bank slots to do it (1000 Zen folks if you aren't a gold or lifer), all you have to be willing to do is simply not do that rep on any other characters. But it doesn't work because not only are you just letting a character sit there, falling behind, on top of that though, while it cuts the leveling grind in half, it doesn't AVOID it at all. You still HAVE to do it, irregardless.
People asked for account-based rep, not because of 'laziness' or 'society just teaching them to want it all now', or anything else so shallow. It's more that...it is BORING and TEDIOUS. People want account-based rep so they can actually PLAY on other toons without feeling left so far behind. Not even bringing in PvP or PvE, or anything else, just feeling like they are able to stay caught up is really the thing.
I won't go any further on the 'character vs account unlock' thing, because it's a thread for another day.
It also hasn't really changed, because, let's face it, it hasn't. Sure the tokens are nice if you don't mind waiting on characters, and the ground part can reward a big amount of marks if you know what you are doing, but aside from that...it is still gonna be at least a solid month before we start seeing people at tier 5 Dyson rep, period.
And it's worse in that...it's a band aid fix honestly. It's better than say...Nukara rep (which I'd call the worst rep we've gotten so far overall). But it's still all only band aids. It doesn't change that the grind is still there, and it can be a REALLY expensive band aid if you don't already have account bank slots.
Now, the other side...the gear grind.
Gear grind is far more subjective and individual in terms of how 'bad' it is because of all the factors that can go into it, most of which are highly opinion-based. Though some things are more universal, such as...
How much the gear costs, and how well rewarded you are to get marks for it. If the content that gives marks is terribly rewarded (see again: Nukara rep) people generally are much less inclined to even want gear right out of the starting gate, just because they had to deal with an extra grind of sorts by having to do more content just to finish rep. Also, if people feel it's overly expensive (see: STF Mk XII sets), they feel less desire for it as well.
How well the gear competes with other gear. This part pretty much boils down to two words, 'power creep'. STO is very much a game of 'stats'; x vs y, this item vs that item, and so on. Thus, if people see a certain item, they will compare it to similar things at that level. Not just other gear from that rep, but gear from other reps, and fleet gear. Like even when Dyson rep was on Tribble, so many people saw the new sets, took one look, and for the most part...completely dismissed them. People saw em, and a lot of them just said, either in public or to themselves 'it isn't good enough compared to my stuff I already have'.
Continuing from that, on the other end of the spectrum, while it's good to not totally obsolete old equipment, and thus old content is still viable and necessary, any new equipment that isn't up to the same 'par' might as well not exist, as people simply won't bother getting it, which can also hurt any new content that might be there, because people won't keep playing it after their level-grind is done.
How well does the gear hold up on it's own. This is more looking at the gear in a vacuum of sorts. A better way might be to say, 'how well can this gear hold up in most of the game's content by itself'. So, if I was a new player, and putting aside any skill issues for the moment, and was given the new Dyson sets, could I do 'well enough' with it in most of the game's content?
Now, to finish up...I will say that, in a large, overall sense, Dyson rep IS actually a step in the right direction. Yes, it isn't as good as it should be; yes, it is a band aid fix; and yes, it's arguably not any less grindy. BUT, it is much more streamlined, a smoother, less painful experience to actually grind the stupid leveling rep in the first place. Gaining marks isn't as much of a chore (though I still expect that I'll be using a lot of Winter epohhs in the very near future to get gear more easily) if you know what you are doing.
It is at least SOMETHING in the right direction. I feel it could've been much worse. It's not immune to criticism, FAR from that, but it's better.
Anywho, like I said, it was long, but thanks for reading.
Alrighty, this is probably gonna be a long one folks.
So, over time, I've come to notice that there's two primary aspects to the reputation system:
Rep-level grind, and gear grind.
Rep-leveling grind is the bigger part here. This is the part that people gripe about. Because this is the part you cannot avoid. It cannot really be shortened, avoided, or otherwise gotten rid of, if you want it done. You MUST do it on every single character that you want to get through rep, or else you get nothing.
It has gotten much better, gotten much worse, and also not changed at all with the addition of Dyson rep.
It's better in that not only can you keep a good amount of progression going by just filling the 2500 xp project each day (which, once the get the bugs worked out, will be about 15 minutes of game time for a commendation) and requires no other imputs, with the OPTION of doing more, but spending marks. (On a side note, it's nice not to have to spend so much damn Expertise on the new rep)
It's theoretically better with the new sponsorship tokens. I say it like that, because, putting aside the issue of requiring account bank slots to do it (1000 Zen folks if you aren't a gold or lifer), all you have to be willing to do is simply not do that rep on any other characters. But it doesn't work because not only are you just letting a character sit there, falling behind, on top of that though, while it cuts the leveling grind in half, it doesn't AVOID it at all. You still HAVE to do it, irregardless.
People asked for account-based rep, not because of 'laziness' or 'society just teaching them to want it all now', or anything else so shallow. It's more that...it is BORING and TEDIOUS. People want account-based rep so they can actually PLAY on other toons without feeling left so far behind. Not even bringing in PvP or PvE, or anything else, just feeling like they are able to stay caught up is really the thing.
I won't go any further on the 'character vs account unlock' thing, because it's a thread for another day.
It also hasn't really changed, because, let's face it, it hasn't. Sure the tokens are nice if you don't mind waiting on characters, and the ground part can reward a big amount of marks if you know what you are doing, but aside from that...it is still gonna be at least a solid month before we start seeing people at tier 5 Dyson rep, period.
And it's worse in that...it's a band aid fix honestly. It's better than say...Nukara rep (which I'd call the worst rep we've gotten so far overall). But it's still all only band aids. It doesn't change that the grind is still there, and it can be a REALLY expensive band aid if you don't already have account bank slots.
Now, the other side...the gear grind.
Gear grind is far more subjective and individual in terms of how 'bad' it is because of all the factors that can go into it, most of which are highly opinion-based. Though some things are more universal, such as...
How much the gear costs, and how well rewarded you are to get marks for it. If the content that gives marks is terribly rewarded (see again: Nukara rep) people generally are much less inclined to even want gear right out of the starting gate, just because they had to deal with an extra grind of sorts by having to do more content just to finish rep. Also, if people feel it's overly expensive (see: STF Mk XII sets), they feel less desire for it as well.
How well the gear competes with other gear. This part pretty much boils down to two words, 'power creep'. STO is very much a game of 'stats'; x vs y, this item vs that item, and so on. Thus, if people see a certain item, they will compare it to similar things at that level. Not just other gear from that rep, but gear from other reps, and fleet gear. Like even when Dyson rep was on Tribble, so many people saw the new sets, took one look, and for the most part...completely dismissed them. People saw em, and a lot of them just said, either in public or to themselves 'it isn't good enough compared to my stuff I already have'.
Continuing from that, on the other end of the spectrum, while it's good to not totally obsolete old equipment, and thus old content is still viable and necessary, any new equipment that isn't up to the same 'par' might as well not exist, as people simply won't bother getting it, which can also hurt any new content that might be there, because people won't keep playing it after their level-grind is done.
How well does the gear hold up on it's own. This is more looking at the gear in a vacuum of sorts. A better way might be to say, 'how well can this gear hold up in most of the game's content by itself'. So, if I was a new player, and putting aside any skill issues for the moment, and was given the new Dyson sets, could I do 'well enough' with it in most of the game's content?
Now, to finish up...I will say that, in a large, overall sense, Dyson rep IS actually a step in the right direction. Yes, it isn't as good as it should be; yes, it is a band aid fix; and yes, it's arguably not any less grindy. BUT, it is much more streamlined, a smoother, less painful experience to actually grind the stupid leveling rep in the first place. Gaining marks isn't as much of a chore (though I still expect that I'll be using a lot of Winter epohhs in the very near future to get gear more easily) if you know what you are doing.
It is at least SOMETHING in the right direction. I feel it could've been much worse. It's not immune to criticism, FAR from that, but it's better.
Anywho, like I said, it was long, but thanks for reading.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.pwlaughingtrendy wrote:I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
Post edited by mimey2 on
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Comments
What do I use the Rep Marks for?
What do I use the Rep Commendation for?
What do I use the Implants for?
What is the most efficient use of these items?
What good is a box of Random Junk when I already have MK XII Adapted MACO gear sets?
Please help.
ps on top of all that I find the Dyson missions & the Entire Dyson Sphere very uninteresting & tedious & have only been there once for each toon.......what is the point?, is there even a point to it?, does it even continue the STO story line?. because I can't see it.
Rep Commendations are for doing the 20 hour project that gives 2,500 reputation. When you get to Tier 5 you can turn them for Marks and dilithium.
Implants have the same purpose as BNPs from the Omega Reputation. So doing the equipment projects and turning them in for dilithium.
The most efficient method to do this is run a dailly for the commendation and the Battlezone for implants and use all marks for the equipment projects.
The Box of Random Junk is good for getting consoles, implants, and weapons which are not provided by the Mk XII Adapted MACO gear set. There might be some good weapons and consoles, but whether they are good or not is personal.
The atmosphere of the entire Dyson sphere just feels awful.
Although if you don't intend on doing Dyson I wouldn't bother since I noticed the set does well in there and ehh in some other situations.
Back to Mimeys Original post though I agree with you 100% the Dyson Rep is so much better and I found new ways of being more productive so I dont have to grind there as much but Account bound rep would be good for the entire game Imagine you could take any character into any kind of content and have it all set up and good to go instead of worrying about that really useful passive you really ought to have.
Feels like a pretty fair deal to me.
Then maybe there's a lesson to be learned here. Namely, that just looking at stats isn't always the best way to go about things. For one, because ppl (as a species) are lousy at comparing stats to begin with: we are just naturally inclined to assume 'moar' is better (and, conversely, to dismiss out of hand what seems less).
That is, no offense, because those ppl are short-sighted. For instance, the Dyson space set is awesome! Yes, it has lower/less stats than top Omega rep gear; but -- and this is the crux -- it was, as a lawyer would say, made to be 'fit for a particular purpose.' Which is to combat Voth, pure and simple. See, what makes fighting Voth so hard, is that those Citadels/Bulwarks keeps knocking out your shields. Top Adapted MACO/Elite Fleet gear, whatever, is simply not equipped to handle that; and nor are you, as you can't repair your shield every few seconds (at least not without using up valuable engineering heals). And that's where the Dyson set shines! Hyper-regenerative shielding, FTW! In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the full Dyson set, so far, proves to be the best defense against the Voth! I too had my initial misgivings about the set; but I got it anyway, and now I'm very pleasantly surprised by its performance. There's just something eminently rewarding about having your shields immediatly back up when knocked out.
I hope those newbiew will come to develop a discerning eye, so as to grasp the purpose behind most space sets. Like that Nukara set you dissed: it's truly excellent against Tholians, but, like the Dyson set, not meant as general utility space set.
irregardless is not a word.
I use Tau Dewa Sector Patrol as my crucible. There can be only one! To that end I've skipped Dyson space battles because of what I've heard, but ground is good enough.
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
Also, Dyson rep is better than other reps because you can get these commendations, and it does not require X and Y commodities.
It also adds items to you for free.
Basically, instead of having to put in 50 X and 30 Y, it gives you a weak end game item.
Which for a new player , or a new character, is really a good thing.
But I can do one CCE, one STF, one TD patrol, etc per day and I'm done with that rep for the day. With a few surplus marks that build up over the next several weeks. Sometimes I use that reserve to skip a day because I don't feel like playing, sometimes I tap that reserve to buy something at a lower tier (like the Assimilated Module).
Then I get to Tier 5, collect my paltry completion reward, and start shopping. And then stop shopping because damn, some of that stuff is expensive!
When I get a new toon to T5 Omega (6 or 7 so far, I think, I've lost track), I'm looking at a shopping list of Mk XII ground sets, costume unlocks, and space gear that will cost 4000, 5000, 6000 marks altogether. Now that I've got the tokens, that's 6-8 times more marks than the rep itself cost. 6-8 times more running the same utterly boring missions day in and day out. Plus it all costs a ton of dil, because, you know, the mark cost isn't punishment enough.
Dyson Rep is better. I'm building up a substantially larger surplus as I go, and there's just less to buy at the end. Though if they nerf the Battlezone rewards I will probably not bother with Dyson beyond the three toons I'm working through it now.
I have 2 alts at Tier 5 Romulan Rep (the 2nd one got there thanks to the Sponsorship thing - a GREAT idea, well implemented). I love the Romulan Plasma weapons that are available, and I 've gotten a lot out of them.
I have an alt at Tier 5 Omega. That was tough. The 1st 60,000 Rep points doing nothing but Defera Ground Invasion missions! Do you know how many individual Borg you have to kill in order to get 60,000 Omega points? I've got blood on my hands, people, a lot of blood on my hands! lol Omega is tough to get, but boy are the rewards worth it. MACO, Omega, HG, AHG, AMACO, Cutting Beam, etc. Fantastic payoff for a lot of work.
I'm almost at Tier 5 Dyson on one alt. I'm primarily doing it in order to have a Tier 5 alt just in case they eventually add something that I may want, but otherwise, its just something to do.
I don't have plans to start Nukara unless I read about some fantastic benefits to it that I don't know about.
Anyway, Dyson and Rom have been implemented well, with multiple ways to reach your goals and giving a little variety to missions so its not such a boring slog. Omega has the STFs plus Defera Ground, which helps. I like the direction we're heading.
My only thing about the Reputations is this: I love the "sandbox" aspect of STO. I like that all 12 of my characters can go down different paths if I choose them to. I like that they can intersect and have different adventures and experiences, dictated by me and not by the game. If all my alts were suddenly rewarded with full Rep just because one alt "earned" it, what will I do in this game then? What would my goals be? How much longer could I play until I got bored and quit for good?
Right now, on my desk, I have a list of priorities for my STO play sessions. 1 character is doing the Winter Wonderland in order to get the Breen Escort. 1 character is starting a new Dyson Rep mission every day. 1 character is doing an STF 1-2 times a day for specific MACO gear. Aside from that, I have alts working towards my Fleet Dil Mine and other random things. I'm having fun, and feeling like I'm accomplishing something.
Sure, some days I don't want to do all "this stuff" to get what I want. However, the alternative is "getting all this stuff all at once", which, for me, would be terrible and game-ending. As long as the slog isn't terrible, there's a nice variety to the missions, and the end-goal is worthy of working towards, I think the present system is pretty good. It could get better, but it could be much much worse.