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Certain ships, hull & strength discussion
macrilen
Member Posts: 58 Arc User
Hello my fellow STO'ers!
I'm looking for a new fleet ship after my Armitage and Scimitar. I'm gonna buy a tactical cruiser ship and convert it for fleet.
Now after looking at the Avenger, Regent etc, I see a beautiful old ship called the 'excelsior'.
Can anyone tell me, how it's possible that an old excelsior, that was actually "medium" canon fodder in the dom wars, has a higher or almost equal hull strength of a galaxy, odyssey, regent, avenger etc? The ship even has a higher hull than some of the science ships..
Yes we had the Lakota for example, but she was a one man show, as it cost too much etc, I read somewhere. But even then, equal or higher than certain new ships?
There is a point where too much is getting too much. I think Cryptic needs to have a look at its hull points and start to take some points off and add some more.
Take instead of 39000, do it like 30000. Perhaps Starfleet was able to beef up her for a last time and that's it. An old cruiser that has more hull strength than new cruisers, mmmh..
Just my two cents here guys. Never make a thread almost..
Btw, a good great tactical cruiser and idea?
I'm looking for a new fleet ship after my Armitage and Scimitar. I'm gonna buy a tactical cruiser ship and convert it for fleet.
Now after looking at the Avenger, Regent etc, I see a beautiful old ship called the 'excelsior'.
Can anyone tell me, how it's possible that an old excelsior, that was actually "medium" canon fodder in the dom wars, has a higher or almost equal hull strength of a galaxy, odyssey, regent, avenger etc? The ship even has a higher hull than some of the science ships..
Yes we had the Lakota for example, but she was a one man show, as it cost too much etc, I read somewhere. But even then, equal or higher than certain new ships?
There is a point where too much is getting too much. I think Cryptic needs to have a look at its hull points and start to take some points off and add some more.
Take instead of 39000, do it like 30000. Perhaps Starfleet was able to beef up her for a last time and that's it. An old cruiser that has more hull strength than new cruisers, mmmh..
Just my two cents here guys. Never make a thread almost..
Btw, a good great tactical cruiser and idea?
Post edited by macrilen on
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Comments
Simplest answer? Video games, man.
Mechanics/Economics-based answer? Fleet ships get approximately 10% more hull and shields than their standard T5 versions, so 10% more shields and hull is what the Fleet Excelsior gets. Anything less is unfair, especially since folks are (more or less) paying money for these things.
And actually, the fleet excelsior has 42900 hull, so it's even higher than the number you listed. Whether the original, vanilla hull of 39,000 was too high to begin with is a different discussion.
Long, Lore-based answer? Starfleet's amazing modular ship construction system.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Accolade/Lore
Check Volume 23, Chapter 3:
"A captain can choose new components for his or her ship and our work crews can have them installed and ready to go in less than half the time of conventional ship construction," said spokesperson Marie Durant. "A damaged ship can get replacement parts from another Starfleet vessel, and the engineers don't have to worry about them not fitting or not working. This system means our crews can do more, stay in the field longer and have the ships they need to do their jobs."
This is the lore explanation for being able to customize ship costumes, as well as swap weapons, shields, engines, warp cores, armor, console mods, and whatever else like they were pieces of clothing.
Starship construction (or modification) is so quick, simple, and easy, that the actual appearance or origin of the hull design is no longer relevant to its capabilities. There are some limits, such as individual ship classes like Cruisers and Escorts having distinct qualities and ranges of capabilities, or individual ships only being able to "swap" parts between ships of the same "class" (such as Sovereigns and Regents within the Assault Cruiser bracket), but broadly speaking, this is the new normal.
So basically, thanks to the magic of technology the centuries-old Excelsior can perform to many of the same standards as an Avenger or Regent. There are still things only the Regent or Avenger can do (like the Avenger equipping dual cannons, or the Regent having that specific console layout and those specific stats), but they're all performing up to a universal standard of quality. A "tier" of quality, if you will. The 5th tier of quality, specifically.
Which is also why there is no longer a canonically sound reason why there shouldn't be a Tier 5 Constitution-class or Tier 5 Miranda, or a Tier-5 NX-Enterpriese, but that's a can of jellied gree worms you won't want to open.
I know about the fleet version, that's even more over top.
The engineering corps thingie, mmh. Have my doubts about that.(know its true, but that it is logical mmh) Yes, fed ships are very long during. We know that, if you see that after 100 years ships are still in line and fighting, but still, there is a limit.
After a while, your ship frame will not be able to withstand those more powerful things.. Look at the enterprise (connie refit). It was actually a completely new ship. I can't see an excelsior being leveled up to go into slipstream or able to keep up at warp 9.98 or have sovereign xii phasers etc and then to be the more overtop thing, to have hullratings that are up on par or more than ships that have normally ablative hull armor (and that are less).
It's not difficult, to adjust and change hullratings in a game (i'm a programmer/designer myself). Change the excelsior to 30000 as galaxy perhaps is 38000 and sovereign 40000. In terms of comparison. Intrepid and defiant for example have 27000 and 32000 i think? Both have a better hull normally and they are extremely weak compared an old ship. Something perhaps (i hope there are others like me) that would love to see a fully new update in season 9 or a megapatch...
It might be "easy" (and even that we don't know for sure because even if you're a programmer, you're not a programmer for THIS game), but it might not be FAIR.
Imagine this. Let's say you own a Bugatti Veyron that you bought, that at your request, Bugatti have modified the body of to make it look like a Ford Model T. It has been fully safety tested and can go the exact speed a normal Veyron can (400+kph). The only difference is it looks like a Ford Model T.
Then a person comes to you and says "A FORD MODEL T CANNOT HAVE 1000HORSEPOWER AND CANNOT HAVE A BUGATTI ENGINE, IT'S TOO OLD". Then this person tried to get the government to force you to limit your speed to 70kph ONLY.
Would you agree? Is that fair to allow one person's aesthetic desires determine what you can and cannot do with something you paid for, especially if it is not causing harm to anyone else?
Guess not.
Gameplay is more important than lore, and this is a gameplay issue. If Cryptic decides that the Excelsior is somehow too powerful for something that old (which is hard to believe since the Klingons are using ships that are even older than the Excelsior on the front lines with little trouble, even in the Dominion War), then they might change something.
But until that happens, let people do what they want with the cruisers they buy.
Game-canon story wise, remember, these Excelsiors were definitely not built when they first came out, and probably looks nothing alike internally compared to the original model. It may look the same, but that doesn't mean you're flying around a 100+ year old ship.
Unangbangkay's Ford Model T example is quite good in explaining this.
It's an Excelsior, but not an Excelsior.
Yes, but the Klingons are the Soviet Union in space. Their stuff is like the AK-47. It should also be noted that most of those old Klingon ships tended to just blow up spectacularly, like the cheap Soviet TRIBBLE they are.
Just because the hull looks the same doesn't mean the internal superstructure looks the same. Besides, ships gain durability beyond that natural to their design or materials through their structural integrity field. Something which would be extremely easy to install on every ship.
As for drag... Well, space.
Hahaha.
I could give you my wip website haha in a pm to prove it and my linkedin profile.
But i agree with the bugatti and ford t comparison.