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Bops are woefully inadequate
pulserazor
Member Posts: 590 Arc User
When LOR dropped I was quite upset at how my favorite character and ship became instantly rubbish compared to the might of the new warbirds, and their cloaking, defensive, critical chance/severity captains and boffs. There was just no comparison between a KDF Bop and a Romulan Warbird escort.
I accepted the unfortunate and somewhat insulting reality that the Romulan faction was new and that it was in the best interest of PerfectWorld to have people spend their money on it, but LOR isnt new anymore, so can we please bring BOP's up to the level of everyting else?
I am not only talking about pvp, where FAW will decimate a bop without even being properly focused, where they cant cloak as soon, and dont have the cloaking power or defensive value of their romulan counterparts. Even in pve Bops are trash now. Every bit of content that has been designed since mid Season 7 has been unfair to bops. Elite CE, Elite Voth, and Hive Onslaught Elite are impossible for a ship with such little hull and such a low shield modifier.
I have looked over all of the dev posts and seen nothing discussed by any devs. Do they think that BOPS are equal? Do they not see a problem?
I have invested most of my time and resources on my BOP captain over my time in STO, and I feel insulted that they have been so disregarded.
We need more hull, (most have 27k-ish) a better shield modifier (most have 0.88) and access to ships with 4 or 5 tac consoles (most have 3 which is a sci/eng configuration). The extra turn rate is rubbish, doesent help survivability and can be matched by any other ship since they often have the console space for rcs, and universal boff slots dont change the fact that they are paper thin, besides the fact that there are less boff powers available in 4 slots.
At the very least, given the size and speed of bops perhaps they should get a defensive modifier like the one granted by the aegis set, something that would protect them from FAW and other zero-effort aoe destruction.
I accepted the unfortunate and somewhat insulting reality that the Romulan faction was new and that it was in the best interest of PerfectWorld to have people spend their money on it, but LOR isnt new anymore, so can we please bring BOP's up to the level of everyting else?
I am not only talking about pvp, where FAW will decimate a bop without even being properly focused, where they cant cloak as soon, and dont have the cloaking power or defensive value of their romulan counterparts. Even in pve Bops are trash now. Every bit of content that has been designed since mid Season 7 has been unfair to bops. Elite CE, Elite Voth, and Hive Onslaught Elite are impossible for a ship with such little hull and such a low shield modifier.
I have looked over all of the dev posts and seen nothing discussed by any devs. Do they think that BOPS are equal? Do they not see a problem?
I have invested most of my time and resources on my BOP captain over my time in STO, and I feel insulted that they have been so disregarded.
We need more hull, (most have 27k-ish) a better shield modifier (most have 0.88) and access to ships with 4 or 5 tac consoles (most have 3 which is a sci/eng configuration). The extra turn rate is rubbish, doesent help survivability and can be matched by any other ship since they often have the console space for rcs, and universal boff slots dont change the fact that they are paper thin, besides the fact that there are less boff powers available in 4 slots.
At the very least, given the size and speed of bops perhaps they should get a defensive modifier like the one granted by the aegis set, something that would protect them from FAW and other zero-effort aoe destruction.
Post edited by pulserazor on
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— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The BoP Raiders will be getting one, with this whole "space flanking" rework starting with the new Breen ship.
2) All of the old ships are lame compared to the new stuff. I mean, look at leading ships like Fleet Defiant Retro compared to the T'varo, or the Fleet Advanced Escort compared to the Dhelan. Its all ridiculous.
3) Despite all that I am able to fly my B'rel Retrofits in any PVE content and do pretty well, mostly because of the manueverability. I do very well with them in The Breach Elite, since they can get behind the half-shield bubble very easily, and only have trouble with the missiel defense structures on the exterior.
But yeah there is no balance in the game anymore. Its just a social game, that's all. Sims in space with Star Trek artwork.
If there is one thing that pissed me off about the warbirds, its the fact that in every single conceivable way the Dhelan is superior. (my main flies the FAE, always has since I got it)
- more hull
- better shield mod
- Uni Lt
- battle cloak
- tier 2 shipyard (fae needs tier 4)
- singularity commands
- a two piece console set from the c-store (FAE only has one console unique to it)
All of that for -40 easily overcomeable power? Please.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Yup that sucked
The Fleet MVAE is one of my favourite ship to fly, and I agree, all older ships need updating....
In fact I dare say its the ship I have the greatest survivability in. :rolleyes:
Are they underpowered? Due to the powercreep, yes absolutely.
Are they useless? Far far from it.
Hit fast, hit hard.
Don't forget the RRW Romulan/Reman BOFFs with their fabulous, OP traits
Probably the biggest advantage, that and the console-set bonuses. Straight ship-to-ship though, a ship with 20+ turning and all-universal boff slots? I'll give up a few thousand hull points for all that. Besides, if I wanted it to be just another gun platform, I'd use a Raptor.
- A weapon arc bonus. People who play the Risian Escort have noted that very maneuverable ships actually do lose some damage due to spinning around on a dime all the time. I could see giving all projectile weapons an extra 90 degrees of arc and energy weapons an extra 45 degrees when used on Klingon raiders.
- Maybe a set of powers inspired by Cruiser Commands and Singularity powers for Klingon ships. Think "go down fighting" or "fleet support" but a bag of tricks for low health. Maybe a set of toggles "Klingon Codes of Honor" that can be toggled between and which supply different low health perks.
Yeah, I find it kinda difficult to approach a target from behind without having some sort of small speed buff active. Usually means I activate APO before decloaking, but in time to retain the damage bonus with my attack. It's especially needed against escorts, which move the same speed. A nice increase to .21, at least, would help with this. Would help with getaways, as well, along with avoiding fire via speed-tanking.
I see more BoP's decloaking off my stern in the near future.......
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But yeah, for PvE I've shelved my tac (alpha strike) B'rel in favour of a Kamarag, recently, because S8 content was more fun with a tad more shields and hull, for me.
My sci in fleet Norgh still does ok, but that's got a slightly different slant - more cc and healing involved.
that kind of observation only works if you have worked hard on your bop with hard to get stuff and trained your skills to fit like a glove. probably a2b setup since you didn't mention anything on that point about setup.
all this is for now at least, i used to use a b'rel bop until recently when the CE kept hammering the bop hard, mind you the ship was a torpedo boat so it wouldn't minded one bit on the aoe energy charge up from the CE. the torpedo cloak is also useless as well, you fire off one torpedo and by the time it takes to recloak fully the enemy has taken out 50% of your hull on the first few hits. woefully is generously putting the term for how useful the bops are.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
All ships have a significant learning curve in order to use them to their full potential.
Fact is, the BoP is not for everyone, few people can truly handle her and know what to do with her.
Know her and treat her right, and you will be amazed at the things you can do.
And yeah, I don't rely on builds that exploit broken game mechanics like A2B builds. :rolleyes:
But I will say this, for PvE, get a fleet console that lowers threat generation.
And always keep on the move, don't ever, EVER come to a stop, always stay at full speed for as long as you can.
This is especially true for CE and even CEE, the later which I can actually complete without dying once on a good day, same with Elite STF's.
I think argument (and it's a fair one) is that some ships certainly have LESS learning curve, at least in PvE.
In PvP, yeah, they're all steep curves. In PvE, some ships penalize you more or less. Some ships you'd never die in outside of an STF while doing respectable damage, some you'd never die in without doing respectable damage, and some you'd die a lot in.
This only makes sense if you have the option to respawn in place though.
I will admit that the BoP in any individual specialized role is generally less effective then another ship. A Tac BoP will lose out to most escorts due to the lost weapon slot and the lower durability. A sci BoP has nowhere near the staying power of a 1.3 shield mod ship, and an Eng BoP doesn't have nearly as much hull (or shields) as a cruiser.
However, you can switch from one to the other inside the same battle - just cloak and wait 5 seconds. No other ship can do that. BoPs require adaptability and a bit of anticipation. Know that spheres are about to spawn in ISE? Put on a Sci BOFF with GW or TBR. Attacking a Tac cube? Switch over to an engineering BOFF so you can last longer under fire. Ally in trouble? Switch to CMD sci and dish out heals.
The trick is knowing when to switch setups, and getting the gear and abilities you need to utilize them.
Most fed ships are obsolete as well
Romulans with there ships and officers have left the feds and klingons in the dust
My romulan characters openly make fun of my Fed and klink characters and tell them to go join the dinosaurs where they belong !!!!
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
First, unless there's an option for carrying more bridge officers than I'm aware of. . .you can only fit maybe 3 'different' boff setups into your roster at once. It's a nice aspect, but it's not as adaptable as you're claiming here, especially since you have to trudge all the way back to Qo'noS, DS9, or starbase to switch out boff skills.
Then you're overlooking the importance of your character's skills. There's a big difference between having no points in gravitons as opposed to 6-9 points. . .even against the stupid NPCs.
Then there's the fact that if your build changes rely on you also changing your weapon type (i.e., switching to a drain build and using polarons), you can use up an awful lot of space in your inventory just holding weapons and other gear.
It works, but I think a lot of players don't friggin bother with it all. I certainly don't, as it's a lot of hassle to mess around with, and it's not really worth it when you're fighting dumb-TRIBBLE NPCs.
Lastly, you're not giving the 'there are other ships that are better at most of these roles' bit enough consideration. That's a little more important than you'd think. If your intention is to just dish out tactical-based damage, why not fly a Destroyer or even a Raptor in PvE? They'd do a better job tanking the incoming damage, at the very least. If your intent is to both tank lots of damage and dish out some, why not fly a battlecruiser? Yes, technically the BoP can fill just about any role to a minimal extent. . .that doesn't mean you would want to do so, or that it's practical. Especially not in PvP. . .which does matter, despite what certain PvE heroes might think.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
With Flanking and a suppossed buff comming to BoPs I hope they get a little better but still retain that jack-of-all-trades feel and level of gameplay.
R.I.P
Ignoring that PvP exists though, what does a player need with a swiss army knife?
sure you can blitz normals or mop up scrubs, but I want to see a video of your bop doing Hive Onslaught elite, or facing a reputable premade before you play the 'no skill' card.
No, the real secret of why Universal layouts first were made is simple: To stretch the content. Because BoPs had such a universal layout, and many Klingon ships also had universal loading, this was essentially an excuse to NOT HAVE TO MAKE ANY KLINGON SHIPS, and to thus TRIBBLE over the KDF even more when it comes to Fleet Ships. Notice how, until VERY recently, it was IMPOSSIBLE for a Klingon player to get a fleet ship without paying the full 4 modules for EVERYTHING.
Since you can get fleet ship modules off the exchange I don't see that as a major perk - a week of KDF contraband farming can get you close to that many EC, let alone actually playing content.