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Thigh shape *still* needs work.

shantavishantavi Member Posts: 129 Arc User
edited December 2013 in The Art of Star Trek Online
Looking at my character from the side, it looks as if the upper half of her thighs are atrophied or some of her thigh muscle has been surgically removed.

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The dress (which is in essence a pencil style miniskirt), should also be hugging the backs of her legs, not have the huge gap that's there now.

Ever since S7, thighs and dresses have been completely screwed up. It'd be nice to get them fixed so they look like actual women's legs.


"Back on topic. Destinii is correct."

(Formerly Destinii until the 'Great PWE Forum Shakeup of 2012')
Post edited by shantavi on

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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    shantavi wrote: »
    The dress (which is in essence a pencil style miniskirt), should also be hugging the backs of her legs, not have the huge gap that's there now.

    Ever since S7, thighs and dresses have been completely screwed up. It'd be nice to get them fixed so they look like actual women's legs.

    I agree it's not great... though the model changes were only enacted with season 8, my only issue for my own character is the lower leg but I've been told that nothing is happening as regards that :(
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    captainoblivouscaptainoblivous Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    If you look at it from the front while wearing a pair of trousers as a fem (the "worn leather" ones as a kdf are a good example) you'll notice that the recent patch also made the whole hips region a lot blockier. Where before it was rounded, now it has a visible point to the ends.
    I need a beer.

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    crypticjoejingcrypticjoejing Member Posts: 211 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2013
    I've responded about this in another thread. Unfortunately, its a necessary evil to avoid clipping. The sides are no worse than they've ever been for this particular leg model, but from the front and back they have been improved. Previous quote:

    "Really there are essentially three leg models for bare/skin tight legs. 1. completely normal seamless set mainly for Orion females wearing loin cloths instead of skirts. 2. One set of legs for *very* short skirts or split front and back skirts. These are almost normal as they don't have to fight with the skirts much, but they still have adjustments to minimize clipping (mostly from the sides as you've pointed out). 3. One set for longer skirts. These are still the most dramatically altered - most noticeably from the sides and the front, the further up the thigh.

    It's often a bit of a compromise to give you guys lots of interchangeable options,
    minimize clipping, and still look decent. And sometimes we reach a point where it's one or the other."
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    mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    2. One set of legs for *very* short skirts or split front and back skirts. These are almost normal as they don't have to fight with the skirts much, but they still have adjustments to minimize clipping (mostly from the sides as you've pointed out).

    Compared to the Starfleet TOS miniskirts, the Romulan one seems to use a different leg model. Unless that's just because the shape of the Starfleet ones mask the leg weirdness more than the even shorter Romulan skirt...
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Joe, I bet you wish you could go back in time four years and redesign the character models before we all got used to the way they look now.
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Joe, I bet you wish you could go back in time four years and redesign the character models before we all got used to the way they look now.

    I just want my character's legs to look like she's run somewhere recently, if only away from the Borg :P
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    ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Mine look like kickers for the NFL
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    What if we make the entire game, only run in the first person. Problem solved!

    How about no because it's not designed to be a first person game, the idea was for it to feel like a film (or so I've read)
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    capnkirk4 wrote: »
    Put some lens flare, and camera vib... where did you read that?

    In various threads around the forums.
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    senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Ever thought of refining and expanding the use of cloth physics? to allow for a more uniform leg/base model and avoid clipping?

    Perhaps make use of the Nvidia APEX module.
    Now obviously i'm not saying it should be used for everything, but it would be a good skirt solution.

    Heres what APEX looks like.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrtwESnTOwY
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    jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited December 2013
    Why not use the same exact model but adjust the outfits vertice weighting and shape to compensate for clipping. I know its a bit of work to adjust individual vertice weights to prevent clipping but the end result is far superior and reduces things like the Romulan skirt clipping through the legs as they run. Having different body parts creates issues such as everyone noticing leg A is different than leg B.
    Join Date: Nobody cares.
    "I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
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    mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Ever thought of refining and expanding the use of cloth physics? to allow for a more uniform leg/base model and avoid clipping?

    They probably have. Thing is, cloth/hair physics are expensive to compute.
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    jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The hips look much better now that they have some shape. No fix needed.
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    senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    They probably have. Thing is, cloth/hair physics are expensive to compute.

    Not nearly as resource expensive as it used to be.
    Todays mid-range GPU's can easily handle it, and even then there is such a thing as graphic options one can set.
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    crypticjoejingcrypticjoejing Member Posts: 211 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2013
    Ever thought of refining and expanding the use of cloth physics? to allow for a more uniform leg/base model and avoid clipping?

    Haha, yes. Of course we have. In fact, STO's is using a form of cloth physics for some of the skirts already.

    I responded in slightly greater depth somewhere else about cloth sims, but the short answer is they aren't as easy to implement and the results often aren't as amazing as you'd think when it comes down to getting it working in a real game environment like an MMO and not just a very controlled tech demo.
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    senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Haha, yes. Of course we have. In fact, STO's is using a form of cloth physics for some of the skirts already.

    I responded in slightly greater depth somewhere else about cloth sims, but the short answer is they aren't as easy to implement and the results often aren't as amazing as you'd think when it comes down to getting it working in a real game environment like an MMO and not just a very controlled tech demo.

    You might want to have a look at the APEX module though.
    Its sort of a hybrid animation/physics module, that allows for a more constrained and natural animation of cloth without the bizzare behavior pure cloth physics are sometimes prone to.(like the orion loincloths bouncing up in ones face when running lol)
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    crypticjoejingcrypticjoejing Member Posts: 211 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2013
    You might want to have a look at the APEX module though.
    Its sort of a hybrid animation/physics module, that allows for a more constrained and natural animation of cloth without the bizzare behavior pure cloth physics are sometimes prone to.(like the orion loincloths bouncing up in ones face when running lol)

    oi! I dug up my previous comment about this and it was actually a response to you!

    "senatorvreenak - Other physics or cloth sims aren't that practical at this stage for STO. That's talking hella major rework for all of the existing assets. Not to mention it doesn't quite just plug in and work. *Lots* of R&D - in fact we went through it for Neverwinter and after all the effort ended up with only a moderately improved system."

    For what it's worth the "moderately improved system" on NW is a hybrid...but has to be *very* simplistic to keep computing costs as low as they are.
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    senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Ah must have missed it, oh well. :o
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    crypticjoejingcrypticjoejing Member Posts: 211 Cryptic Developer
    edited December 2013
    Ah must have missed it, oh well. :o

    heh, ok. np
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    oi! I dug up my previous comment about this and it was actually a response to you!

    "senatorvreenak - Other physics or cloth sims aren't that practical at this stage for STO. That's talking hella major rework for all of the existing assets. Not to mention it doesn't quite just plug in and work. *Lots* of R&D - in fact we went through it for Neverwinter and after all the effort ended up with only a moderately improved system."

    For what it's worth the "moderately improved system" on NW is a hybrid...but has to be *very* simplistic to keep computing costs as low as they are.

    On the subject of physics objects, how about, like, ponytail hairdos where the ponytail is a physics objects? So it swishes around semi-normally? I don't know how feasible something like that would be.
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    adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    On the subject of physics objects, how about, like, ponytail hairdos where the ponytail is a physics objects? So it swishes around semi-normally? I don't know how feasible something like that would be.

    How about adding all long hair styles to that list, it's neat and all how my character's hair remains static when running but it's very unrealistic...

    EDIT: Sorry for continuing the thread derailing :D
    ZiOfChe.png?1
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    How about adding all long hair styles to that list, it's neat and all how my character's hair remains static when running but it's very unrealistic...

    EDIT: Sorry for continuing the thread derailing :D

    Ultimately all the hair could use some work, but I figure, baby steps first...
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