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"Nontraditional" player characters and Foundry dialogue writing
starswordc
Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
This came up back in Foundry Roundtable #31 but I wasn't really paying attention at the time.
Now that I've started my first KDF char, a Lethean engineer named Brokosh with the backstory that he's a former freelancer who signed with the KDF for steadier pay after he found out his wife was pregnant, it really grates that Cryptic has for most of the KDF storyline just assumed players would play Klingons and thus wrote for Klingons only. This despite the most common KDF character being an Orion female, usually one wearing as little clothing as possible.
As I've noted in a couple other threads, the Klingons are the only race in the KDF that goes for the whole Proud Warrior Race Guy shtick. The Orions are allies by treaty, the Letheans and Nausicaans are in it for the money, and the Gorn were conquered and their military absorbed into the Klingons'.
This isn't just a problem with the KDF. Most of the Starfleet storyline kinda assumes you're playing a human. "The 2800" arc was a particular offender for me, since my main is Bajoran. Got kinda annoying running around Hathon and having the inhabitants treat me like I know nothing about Bajor when my nose is just as crinkly as theirs is. I've also encouraged other Foundry writers with missions involving Bajoran culture to include options for Bajoran PCs, and noted in the Purity feedback thread that there's a couple spots where, assuming they're allowed to revise the missions at some point, they could add more dialogue tailored to nonhumans.
So, how do we do better than Cryptic in this regard?
Now that I've started my first KDF char, a Lethean engineer named Brokosh with the backstory that he's a former freelancer who signed with the KDF for steadier pay after he found out his wife was pregnant, it really grates that Cryptic has for most of the KDF storyline just assumed players would play Klingons and thus wrote for Klingons only. This despite the most common KDF character being an Orion female, usually one wearing as little clothing as possible.
As I've noted in a couple other threads, the Klingons are the only race in the KDF that goes for the whole Proud Warrior Race Guy shtick. The Orions are allies by treaty, the Letheans and Nausicaans are in it for the money, and the Gorn were conquered and their military absorbed into the Klingons'.
This isn't just a problem with the KDF. Most of the Starfleet storyline kinda assumes you're playing a human. "The 2800" arc was a particular offender for me, since my main is Bajoran. Got kinda annoying running around Hathon and having the inhabitants treat me like I know nothing about Bajor when my nose is just as crinkly as theirs is.
I've also encouraged other Foundry writers with missions involving Bajoran culture to include options for Bajoran PCs, and noted in the Purity feedback thread that there's a couple spots where, assuming they're allowed to revise the missions at some point, they could add more dialogue tailored to nonhumans.So, how do we do better than Cryptic in this regard?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Post edited by starswordc on
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There's pros and cons to this of course.
Con: You do limit your audience. For instance, some players do not have an Orion. If they came across a mission that said it was tailored to Orion characters they might not play it for that reason. (I still would, but not everyone).
Pro: It allows you to put a more specific voice to the player captain and worry less about: "my captain would never say that." It also allows you to get past some of the choice issues we have since we can't do real branching objectives. If you are only writing for Orions, you only have to present the choices an Orion would make.
Alternatively, you could label each dialogue choice:
"[Klingon] blah blah blah"
"[Lethean] blah blah blah"
"[Orion] blah blah blah"
#1: dialog options. having different ways to go from point a to point Z in a conversation is good for immersion and helping sell the idea that it's your character talking and not Kirk. But... unless you do some really fancy stuff with story branching it's just fluff. Also.... it is hard to write for every race possible. I have several time posted my list of characters, and... some of them are things you could never anticipate as an author. One example is a T-888. His personality mixes logical thoughtfulness with intense aggressiveness.
The other option is to write the story so that the nature of the player is unimportant. This won't always work. Especially in cases where the player is something truly out there. Such as a Vorta or Jem'Hadar or Zentraedi.
One example from a Cryptic mission is the Vulcan diplomatic daily. It assumes that the player is A: not Romulan or Vulcan, and B: has little knowledge of Romulan/Vulcan history. It's REALLY weird to play as either a Romulan or Vulcan. For the Romulan side, you have the Romulan ambassador talk to you like you're a Starfleet officer. For the Vulcan side.... a lot of Vulcans were BORN there. It's possible, but unlikely that they wouldn't at least know where to look up the information that you look for in the mission.
Another example(I hate to pick on him because he's actually a good writer) is one of Evil70th's missions. In at least one of the older versions, he has a scene where your character is talking to a Vulcan and confuses the Vulcan with a baseball analogy. This caught my attention as anomalous since I was playing the mission as a Mirror Universe Vorta. I commented that the Vulcan was more likely to know what Baseball was than my character.
Anyways, in summary, it's best to avoid things that are egregious violations and expect someone somewhere to find a possibility you never thought of.
My character Tsin'xing
I am always curious though to see how effective I am at it. KDF, like you said, is one of the hardest ones to write for because while the Fed is all inclusive, the KDF is all inclusive for personalities. The honorable warrior and the money hungry honorless targ hang out in the same cafeteria lines.
starswordc, do me a favor if you haven't done it already. Check out my KDF foundry mission "Time Will Tell" and see how it fairs. It more or less uses all of my tricks in some way or another and the hope is that the plot feels important even if you aren't a KDF die hard warrior OR the opposite as an Orion slave peddler. If anything, it shows examples of all my dialog tricks in one way or another.
I play as a Human Defector, Wronged by Section 31 and bitter with the federations lack of self regulation , taking his trusted Andorian officer, he collected a group of misfits from around the Quadrant, and works as a privateer for the KDF, hoping one day he would once again meet Franklin Drake and punch him in his stupid jerk face a second time
Good luck writing diaogue for that character ( i'll give you the max tip if you try hard enough though
Fed
----
Emotionless Vulcan
Emotional Andorian
"Straight-laced" Captain
Snarky captain
Romulan/Reman options
Klingon
Honourable Klingon
Duplicitous Captain (Klingon, Orion or other)
Mercenary (Any non-klingon)
Romulan/Reman
These are just some of the ideas that you can and probably should incorporate when dealing with various alternate dialogue options. Whether they effect the story or not.
I'd recommend playing (if it's up, haven't checked) my KDF Spotlight The Honour of Profit. In that you can behave as honourably, dishonourably or neutrally as you see fit.
i say- sure on my new to do missions i can do so.
on my Plauge and redeem that is a no.
ii got a few different things for thise playing fleet ufpp civlian unrest. but adding these things sometimes make my missions don't work. treid once. it did not make sense some things
This. 100 times this.
The expectation that any author should either create multiple customized dialogs that have no plot purpose and/or "bland-down" dialog and/or should be able to anticipate your Half-Romulan/Half-Vulcan/Half-Klingon hybrid double-agent pirate is totally unreasonable.
Un. Reas. On. Able.
You want to know my pet peeve? You've found it.
My advice: write the dialog to fit the story, give an option or two for attitude if you like...but for god's sake don't even try to cater to every "half-drow/half-orc wizard/bard/fighter" as if you were sitting across the table top from them.
I'm sorry if it seems uncaring or whatever, but the player needs to assume some responsibility for mentally making accommodations for their own backstory...that's *your story* -- it may not necessarily meld with *this* or *that* story.
To place the onus on the writer is a totally wrong headed expectation.
It's my opinion, my 2 cents, and you can flame away if you don't like it (and I'm sure some will)
true.
not just true
it is the only true thing about the foundry when it comes to dialouge atleast to me.
not english so excuse me for bad english
One of my human toons was once a small freighter pilot flying in a second-hand Dominion War era Runabout that after a skirmish with pirates, had crash-landed on the Romulan refugee colony of Virinat. Unable to repair her craft, she took on odd jobs, helping the colonists there until she could earn enough to fix her runabout, but she, like the Romulans there, got caught up in the invasion of the colony, and she has been fighting by their side ever since.
But, that being said, there is definitely something to be said for having multiple dialog options.
My character Tsin'xing
In a lot of situations all that's really required Fedside is a, for lack of a better term, Spock Speak option for Vulcans. (I love TV Tropes.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It doesn't need to be something blatantly Vulcan like: "Captain, the logical thing to do is...", something like: "Captain, it might be best if we...." works for Vulcans, and also members of similar races.
hmm... I'm not sure exactly what would be best number of options and ultimately it's up to the writer how many options you'd be willing to write.
My character Tsin'xing
Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.