test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Tactical Cruisers?
darthmeow504
Member Posts: 2,302 Arc User
I started the game as an escort pilot, and I still enjoy my DHC blasting speed demon of a gunship. But when I created a second character, i wanted something different. Something a bit closer to canon Trek. I wanted a beam and torpedo beast like what graced the screen so many times in the proud history of Star Trek.
What I found was that cruisers as they exist currently simply do not get the job done. The way every one is set up makes for a miserable combat experience, and let's face it combat is a vast majority of the game's content. It's neither right not fair that escorts should be the only viable option for decent combat performance. Nor should escort be the default "tactical" option with every other ship relegated to a role that doesn't suit 90% of the game's content.
Much of this comes from the outdated and inappropriate to Trek concept of "trinity" game mechanics, which mandates a three class setup of fighter, tank, and healer all designed to work together and complement one another. That works great in a fantasy game where the mechanic originated, but it doesn't belong in Star Trek where the vast majority of the game is meant to be played solo and where every canon ship ever flown by the heroes was a versatile ship capable of and expected to handle everything thrown at it on it's own.
And for those who feel the trinity should be front and center, I counter that you simply cannot force people into a support role if they don't want to play it. This game isn't structured for it, and most people don't choose it. They end up gravitating towards escorts not because they necessarily prefer them, but because they're the only ships equipped to get the job done. What needs to happen is for every ship class to be capable and effective in combat, just in it's own unique way. Those who want support ships (tanks and healers) should be able to get them (preferably at endgame where all the group-oriented content is clustered), but there shouldn't be two-thirds of the available ships dedicated to it. What ends up happening is that two-thirds of the available ship selection gets snubbed by players who want to be able to play the game without being hampered by a support role ship flying solo content. What we need is more options.
Thus, rather than the escort / cruiser / science ship classes we have now, I suggest a new set of classes for Federation ships.
Destroyer / Gunship class: Escorts renamed, as they're not really escorting anything are they? Set up primarily for cannons and turrets, just as they are now, with the addition of a dual mode of "hit" and "run". In "hit" mode, most shield energy is put in the forward arc and the ship flies like normal. In "run" mode, the shields are reversed and all weapons power is shunted to engines, allowing a decent percentage of full impulse speed. Top tier ships of this class should be 5/2 front-rear weapons distribution, and a very high turn rate like that of a BoP in the high teens or low twenties depending on how heavy they are. Heavier hull means less turn.
Light Cruiser: Akin to the Raptor class in the KDF, and would encompass all the "arrowhead" design ships that aren't already escorts including moving over many of what are now Science class. These are slower than current escorts, but still rather quick with a turn rate in the low teens. They would be optimized for a setup of dual beam banks and beam turrets which would be added to the game in place of the single cannons that nobody uses anyway. They're still a "point forward to fire" sort of ship, but they have more hull and better shields than their lighter brethren and a wider weapons arc to compensate. They give up some DPS (as DBB aren't as strong as DHC) but gain survivability under fire as a trade-off.
Assault Cruiser: Sleek cruisers with mostly oval or small round saucers, with the Sovereign and Avenger classes prime examples. Turn rate between 9 and 11. Nice strong hull and shields, like the current cruiser class. Uses a weapon called "Pulse Beams", which replace current dual cannons (again, who uses them?). They look like the phasers seen in Wrath of Khan, have a firing arc similar to current beam arrays, and can utilize most beam and cannon tac skills. They can be paired with either gun or beam turrets, depending on how you prefer to lay out your skills. A very good balance between speed, survivability, and firepower but not specialized in any. May slot a single carrier bay in place of a rear weapon.
Heavy Cruiser: Now you're talking tank. These ships have a large, wide saucer section like seen on the Galaxy class, and are equipped with 360 degree beam strips that replace current beam arrays, as well as wide angle torpedo launchers and are the only ships that can mount these powerful weapons. These massive vessels do not have "front" or "rear" weapons slots, just six to eight universal slots for their big and multi-facing weapons systems. They have the slowest turn rate and heaviest hull and shields, and can in fact mount a second shield array. With their standard loadout, they typically wade into combat and absorb fire while opening up with heavy beam and torpedo fire on multiple targets.
Alternately, weapons slots can be devoted to lance type weapons that fire very powerful beams in a narrow cannon type firing arc, dual torpedo launchers that fire more powerful bursts in a narrower firing arc, or to carrier bays, allowing for a variety of loadouts to suit differing desires. These bulky options can only be mounted on heavy cruisers.
Finally, any cruiser can be kitted out for a more support role by mounting special emitters in place of weapons that allow projected shielding, hull repair, exotic damage, specialized sensor and deflector abilities, and other functions now relegated to the "science ship" class. To boost this, the Heavy Cruiser can alternately slot a second Deflector array in place of the second shield array, providing less protection but a greater set of exotic science abilities.
ALL ships should bave a decent set of tactical officer slots, with additional Science and Engineer slots for heavier ships. Every ship should have at least one universal slot, especially at higher levels. Heavier ships = more crew = more bridge slots available. A Destroyer might have tww or three tac, one eng and one sci, while each class heavier retains those tac slots while adding more sci and eng stations that lighter ships have to do without.
Also, for those who might be concerned that regular dual cannons would be replaced in this concept, you could make up for that by allowing a full set of quad cannons at every level and type. DHCs would be slower firing but heavier hitting, and quads would fire faster streams of lighter bolts.
Any feedback will be welcome, EXCEPT for talk of other factions. This does NOT intend to address other factions or inter-faction balance at ALL, that is a different topic entirely. This is only meant to address the Starfleet ship assortment, please restrict commentary to the topic.
What I found was that cruisers as they exist currently simply do not get the job done. The way every one is set up makes for a miserable combat experience, and let's face it combat is a vast majority of the game's content. It's neither right not fair that escorts should be the only viable option for decent combat performance. Nor should escort be the default "tactical" option with every other ship relegated to a role that doesn't suit 90% of the game's content.
Much of this comes from the outdated and inappropriate to Trek concept of "trinity" game mechanics, which mandates a three class setup of fighter, tank, and healer all designed to work together and complement one another. That works great in a fantasy game where the mechanic originated, but it doesn't belong in Star Trek where the vast majority of the game is meant to be played solo and where every canon ship ever flown by the heroes was a versatile ship capable of and expected to handle everything thrown at it on it's own.
And for those who feel the trinity should be front and center, I counter that you simply cannot force people into a support role if they don't want to play it. This game isn't structured for it, and most people don't choose it. They end up gravitating towards escorts not because they necessarily prefer them, but because they're the only ships equipped to get the job done. What needs to happen is for every ship class to be capable and effective in combat, just in it's own unique way. Those who want support ships (tanks and healers) should be able to get them (preferably at endgame where all the group-oriented content is clustered), but there shouldn't be two-thirds of the available ships dedicated to it. What ends up happening is that two-thirds of the available ship selection gets snubbed by players who want to be able to play the game without being hampered by a support role ship flying solo content. What we need is more options.
Thus, rather than the escort / cruiser / science ship classes we have now, I suggest a new set of classes for Federation ships.
Destroyer / Gunship class: Escorts renamed, as they're not really escorting anything are they? Set up primarily for cannons and turrets, just as they are now, with the addition of a dual mode of "hit" and "run". In "hit" mode, most shield energy is put in the forward arc and the ship flies like normal. In "run" mode, the shields are reversed and all weapons power is shunted to engines, allowing a decent percentage of full impulse speed. Top tier ships of this class should be 5/2 front-rear weapons distribution, and a very high turn rate like that of a BoP in the high teens or low twenties depending on how heavy they are. Heavier hull means less turn.
Light Cruiser: Akin to the Raptor class in the KDF, and would encompass all the "arrowhead" design ships that aren't already escorts including moving over many of what are now Science class. These are slower than current escorts, but still rather quick with a turn rate in the low teens. They would be optimized for a setup of dual beam banks and beam turrets which would be added to the game in place of the single cannons that nobody uses anyway. They're still a "point forward to fire" sort of ship, but they have more hull and better shields than their lighter brethren and a wider weapons arc to compensate. They give up some DPS (as DBB aren't as strong as DHC) but gain survivability under fire as a trade-off.
Assault Cruiser: Sleek cruisers with mostly oval or small round saucers, with the Sovereign and Avenger classes prime examples. Turn rate between 9 and 11. Nice strong hull and shields, like the current cruiser class. Uses a weapon called "Pulse Beams", which replace current dual cannons (again, who uses them?). They look like the phasers seen in Wrath of Khan, have a firing arc similar to current beam arrays, and can utilize most beam and cannon tac skills. They can be paired with either gun or beam turrets, depending on how you prefer to lay out your skills. A very good balance between speed, survivability, and firepower but not specialized in any. May slot a single carrier bay in place of a rear weapon.
Heavy Cruiser: Now you're talking tank. These ships have a large, wide saucer section like seen on the Galaxy class, and are equipped with 360 degree beam strips that replace current beam arrays, as well as wide angle torpedo launchers and are the only ships that can mount these powerful weapons. These massive vessels do not have "front" or "rear" weapons slots, just six to eight universal slots for their big and multi-facing weapons systems. They have the slowest turn rate and heaviest hull and shields, and can in fact mount a second shield array. With their standard loadout, they typically wade into combat and absorb fire while opening up with heavy beam and torpedo fire on multiple targets.
Alternately, weapons slots can be devoted to lance type weapons that fire very powerful beams in a narrow cannon type firing arc, dual torpedo launchers that fire more powerful bursts in a narrower firing arc, or to carrier bays, allowing for a variety of loadouts to suit differing desires. These bulky options can only be mounted on heavy cruisers.
Finally, any cruiser can be kitted out for a more support role by mounting special emitters in place of weapons that allow projected shielding, hull repair, exotic damage, specialized sensor and deflector abilities, and other functions now relegated to the "science ship" class. To boost this, the Heavy Cruiser can alternately slot a second Deflector array in place of the second shield array, providing less protection but a greater set of exotic science abilities.
ALL ships should bave a decent set of tactical officer slots, with additional Science and Engineer slots for heavier ships. Every ship should have at least one universal slot, especially at higher levels. Heavier ships = more crew = more bridge slots available. A Destroyer might have tww or three tac, one eng and one sci, while each class heavier retains those tac slots while adding more sci and eng stations that lighter ships have to do without.
Also, for those who might be concerned that regular dual cannons would be replaced in this concept, you could make up for that by allowing a full set of quad cannons at every level and type. DHCs would be slower firing but heavier hitting, and quads would fire faster streams of lighter bolts.
Any feedback will be welcome, EXCEPT for talk of other factions. This does NOT intend to address other factions or inter-faction balance at ALL, that is a different topic entirely. This is only meant to address the Starfleet ship assortment, please restrict commentary to the topic.
:origin()/pre15/2383/th/pre/i/2013/224/7/e/star_trek_idic_facebook_cover_by_athdaraseleya-d6hri4e.jpg)
The D in IDIC doesn't stand for discrimination, and neither does this poster.
Post edited by darthmeow504 on
0
Comments
Beam cruisers are absolutely deadly, in fact a few of them are capable of completely outclassing any escort in terms of sheer firepower and survivability (much to my chagrin as my main is a scort pilot)
They cant burst single target like a DHC escort can, but they dont have to, their damage over time is so high that not even the strongest NPCs can survive it for long, nor can most players other than a dedicated healer.
The key is the appropriate build and WEAPON POWER MANAGEMENT <--- capitalized for a reason.
If your weapons preset isnt 125 at all times youre seriously doing it wrong if you want to do damage, etc.
I have an engineer in a Fleet Avenger that can sustain (yes sustain) 14000+ DPS indefinitely. My main escort cappy is lucky to maintain that for a couple minutes at the high end.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
So I looked into different ship 'classes' (one of my favourite STO mechanics is the fact that any captain can command any ship). I enjoyed the setups and cc ability of science ships (tractor beam + gravity well is an awesome combo) but found their lack of longevity a little disheartening. Finally I've settled on several different cruiser builds, the ability to take more punishment whilst still dealing substantial damage suited my playstyle perfectly.
What I'm trying to get at is that although the 'trinity' system is mentioned frequently in these forums, I honestly don't believe it exists in-game. There are so many variables (consoles/boffs/skill point allocation/player tactics) that any ship can be made to compete with any other with a little bit of thought/effort, the trick is finding a setup that suits your playstyle.
The worst thing about the majority of MMOs is the whole 'cookie-cutter' builds, that a trinity system forces players to follow to maximise the usefulness of their character. STO lets the player choose the role they want to play and adapt it without having to build dedicated characters to find the playstyle that works for them.
So with all that, why bother crowbarring in a more convoluted 'trinity-esque' system when there's no need to do so? Simiply find a ship setup that works for you and stop worrying about everybody else's playstyle.
With its commander engineering slot, a cruiser captain can have access to emer to shields (1 anyway) RSP, Eng team 3 and Aux to structural int 3, all from the same engineer and can use some of the lower ranked engineer spots to supplement any of those powers, making the ship tough to destroy and with TT 1 and TT2 active, AuxTSInt can be primary hull healing and leave ET 3 (if needed and either between TT cooldowns, or after activating it and with RSP running) available to provide a bit of hull heals to team members even from a tac captain
As well, when under heavy attack, I have survided well by having aux to struc int and eng 3 both available while RSP runs during TT cooldown which it shares with eng 3, And on the bortasqu' at least, the Lt. commander universal slot can be used to adapt the ship and fine tune it to any mission, even once it starts if there is time to switch boffs. I often use sci powers in this slot, HE, Tykens and grav well and have quite a bit of offense from sci powers as well as the usual energy weapons and I don't need torps or that "only a fool doesn't use it" AtB build.
Set weapon power to 125, get a lethean and borg crew with efficiency trait and the cruiser will aquit itself well.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
From one Fed player to another, please provide a link of your build, console loadout, weapons, skills, boffs, doffs, and power levels. I've been a Fed cruiser player since beta, and I must be doing something wrong.
She's literally melting faces and best of all - it does it without worrying about even getting scratched. Not only that she can bring the pain, she can bring it in unbeliveable quantities while laughing off anything thrown at her.
Believe me, I've been flying cruisers almost exclusively since i joined STO. They can get the job done and do it with style, especially with all the latest changes and improvements that happened this year.
Starfleet, or Klingon cruisers, don't need to be reclassified. If you want to try them out - go for it and I highly recomend asking for advice in the PvP section, there are quite a few guys/gals there that will be willing to help and share their expertise. Once you get solid advice and basic ideas of how to set up a cruiser you'll be more than pleasantly suprised as to what a cruiser is able to do!
Can I assume these builds are PvE, not PvP?
I've got 2 tacs and I just don't enjoy flying them at all. Sure the DPS is nice but it just doesn't feel right to me.
Science continues to confuse me with how best to get a DPS build going on my Vesta. I'll get there eventually.
However, my fleet Excelsior, and my fleet Regent...very good ships and I enjoy throwing them into Elite STFs just for the fun.
Nothing wrong with cruisers. It's the people flying them.
Well PvP builds generaly work even better in PvE, although there are a few exceptions. But any skilled PvPer (which I'm not
I learned a lot by lurking around their threads and reading the build threads they have posted in the PvP section. Also in the "Builds, powers and game mechanics" section.
I mean, I'm a casual player myself, so some of the things I read there probably would never have crossed my mind.
There is no such trinity in star trek. If you have some facts to support that sure, post them.
I run a support/cc science ship.
I like this way of playing the game and dislike playing the way escorts require you to play.
I am not or don't feel hampered in solo (elite) content, estfs or pvp. Others may see me and disagree, but that's their view, not mine.
I don't melt faces, but I never feel like I'm trying to remove a mountain with sandpaper either.
Secondly, all 3 captain classes can perform adequately in all 3 base ship classes in any given situation.
And finally, all 3 base ship classes have variants that give them versatility in terms of function. Think about the boff lay outs of the Multi-Vector and the Vesta, for example, versus those of the Defiant and Intrepid. Then consider how different all the carrier and cruiser layouts are.
Yes, there are 3 classes of captain and 3 base classes of ship but I think it is a misconception to say that the trinity exists per se in this game, at least in its traditional form, even if there is a trinity of sorts. That's in space anyway, ground is a little different in that respect.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
^^^^^^^^thissssss
Like my fanpage!
https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBMoney913
Join Date: August 29th 2010
This, so very much, this.
I don't expect to instavape stuff in my sci ship. That is simply not what the ship is for. It happens occasionally in some PvE stuff if I get lucky with crits and chain explosions, or against a very badly set up pvp opponent or whatever, but in general, the ship does other stuff. Stuff it was intended to be optimized for and that would make it oh so incredibly OP if it also did a ton of burst damage a la escort.
Also, all the talk about the tank/dps/healer stuff nearly always seems to forget CC builds, drain builds, the differences between burst dmg and sustained dps, and other possible types of builds/set ups that are out there. Where do control and drain fit in? Tanking? DPS? Both? Neither?
I honestly think that one of the reasons the majority of new players appear to choose Tac captains and Escorts is not necessarily because the game is all about DPS (even though there is a minimum required in order to be useful), but more because they either are confused by or simply don't like cruisers, engis, scis or sci ships. I'm not trying to insult anyone here, but looking at what you see in STF pugs, for most new players, it seems to me that being useful in a cruiser is an awful lot harder than being useful in an escort and for many, the sci ship experience seems to be a frantic search for the DPS they see their fleet geared seasoned veteran kumari piloting team-mates putting out while they totally ignore all that science stuff.
I might be wrong, but that's how I see it.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.