Fleet Star Cruiser vs. Fleet Exploration Cruiser

darthtrekker4400
darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Federation Discussion
I am a Fed Engineer and my fleet is a week away from finishing the upgrade to the Tier IV shipyard. I was wondering whether I should get the Fleet Star Cruiser of the Fleet Expo Cruiser. For the most part I do Elite STFs and other PvE missions. I do almost no PvP except on rare occasions with fleet mates and friends. I like to be a tank, so which one would be best for that?

My proposed builds for each are-

Fleet Exploration Cruiser- http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=darthtrekkerfleetexploartioncruiser1_0

Fleet Star Cruiser- http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=darthtrekkerfleetstarcruiser1_0
Post edited by darthtrekker4400 on

Comments

  • peetapipmac
    peetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you don't already have exploration cruiser retrofit then get the star cruiser. The galaxy really needs the saucer sep to be competitive.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • reginamala78
    reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Um, you've got Exploration Cruisers on both links. Admittedly, if you already own the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit, it'll get you a discount in the shipyard, and its got pedigree besides, but on the other hand that 3 eng ensign really causes issues that the Star Cruiser doesn't have.

    Paired RSP is totally unnecessary for either ship in STFs, given how tanky they are. Really with the an always-on EPTS and good shield energy setting, you'll be able to eat a high-yield plasma and it won't drop a shield facing, just from resistance alone. Probably don't need paired Engineering Teams, but maybe a higher Aux2SIF.

    If you're going to play as a super-tanky/healer cruiser, putting some points in Threat Control, along with a +Threat console or two, may make you more useful, give you something to do with all that healing and durability.

    Lastly your skill selection.....yikes. So many 9s, a lot of them in things you aren't even using. Seriously respeccing, 3 in stuff you kinda use, 6 in things that are important, and 9 in the few skills that are truly critical, will probably help more than any fleet upgrades.
  • darthtrekker4400
    darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Um, you've got Exploration Cruisers on both links. Admittedly, if you already own the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit, it'll get you a discount in the shipyard, and its got pedigree besides, but on the other hand that 3 eng ensign really causes issues that the Star Cruiser doesn't have.

    Paired RSP is totally unnecessary for either ship in STFs, given how tanky they are. Really with the an always-on EPTS and good shield energy setting, you'll be able to eat a high-yield plasma and it won't drop a shield facing, just from resistance alone. Probably don't need paired Engineering Teams, but maybe a higher Aux2SIF.

    If you're going to play as a super-tanky/healer cruiser, putting some points in Threat Control, along with a +Threat console or two, may make you more useful, give you something to do with all that healing and durability.

    Lastly your skill selection.....yikes. So many 9s, a lot of them in things you aren't even using. Seriously respeccing, 3 in stuff you kinda use, 6 in things that are important, and 9 in the few skills that are truly critical, will probably help more than any fleet upgrades.

    When I click on the links I get the Expo and the Star cruiser.

    The reason I have two copies of RSP is because I tend to sit in the middle of the gates on ISE and KSE and I need the two copies of RSP to keep my shields up. Only reason I put the 2nd Eng team in the 3rd ensign slot is because I would rather have that then a worthless EPE or EPA.

    I will have to get me some of those consoles because with my current stats even using the Draw Fire Crusier Command my teammates often still keep the aggro.

    I know my skill selection is a mess, this was my first character and I filled in all those skills before I realized I could only spend so many skill points. As you can imagine, I did a double facepalm when I realized that. I have been meaning to get a reskill token, but my dili has been needed for other things.
  • reginamala78
    reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Hmm weird now its showing both to me correctly. Earlier though, clicked two links got two identical Exploration Cruisers. Java weirdness I guess.

    Also, do you already own the C-store Exploration Cruiser Retrofit? If so, I'd say go with the Exploration Cruiser just to take advantage of the discount. If not and you'll be paying 4 Fleet Modules no matter what you do, I'd take the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit (Yamaguchi) over either of those ships, as its a top-notch healer/tank with better firepower and mobility besides.
  • futurepastnow
    futurepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    If you don't already have exploration cruiser retrofit then get the star cruiser. The galaxy really needs the saucer sep to be competitive.

    If you don't have a cruiser that grants a discount, I'd recommend the Fleet Support Cruiser (Fleet Ambassador). It's got more damage potential than either the fleet Galaxy or Star Cruiser (in line with a normal Assault Cruiser), and it's better at either support or science than either, with that Lieutenant Commander sci boff. Plus it's a good ship to fly, with an above-average turn rate for Fed cruisers and good inertia.
  • darthtrekker4400
    darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, do you already own the C-store Exploration Cruiser Retrofit?

    No I do not own the Expo Cruiser Retrofit. In fact the only C-Store ships I have are the ones they gave away that one week.

    If you don't have a cruiser that grants a discount, I'd recommend the Fleet Support Cruiser (Fleet Ambassador). It's got more damage potential than either the fleet Galaxy or Star Cruiser (in line with a normal Assault Cruiser), and it's better at either support or science than either, with that Lieutenant Commander sci boff. Plus it's a good ship to fly, with an above-average turn rate for Fed cruisers and good inertia.
    If not and you'll be paying 4 Fleet Modules no matter what you do, I'd take the Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit (Yamaguchi) over either of those ships, as its a top-notch healer/tank with better firepower and mobility besides.

    I looked at the stats for the Fleet Support Cruiser and I like having the Lt. Commander sci boff slot so I could have TSSIII, HEII, and PHI; but what I do not like is not having a Commander and Lt. Commander which allows me to have RSP III, RSP II, and Eng Team III. Having those abilities makes me extremely durable. Although I could have RSP III, RSP II, and Eng Team II on the Fleet Support Cruiser; having Eng Team III is something I would prefer. On all my ships I focus on tanking as I do not care as much about doing a ton of damage.
  • latiasracer
    latiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I'd recommend you with the Fleet Exploration, (Not just because i am a die-hard galaxy fan :P) but if, as you say, You are more interested in tanking - You have absolutely no need for the saucer separation console (All it does is reduce your turn rate and bump some power to weapons, but you loose a significant amount of hull and crew).


    In terms of your build, I'd suggest using fire at will instead of overload (If you want to play tanky in stf's, best way to do that is to try and hold the aggro of your team) However, That's because i use it on an Aux2bat build, I'm not really sure how it'd work without it...

    Also, considering you are going full armour with no turn boosters, I'd suggest replacing the Romulan Torpedo launcher with another beam array, As that gives you an extra gun to broadside with!
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • davidwford
    davidwford Member Posts: 1,836 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I admit that I have not played around with it, but it IS possible to use three ensign engieers. Engineering Team 1, Emergency to Shields 1, and Emergency to Weapons should all be useful. And if you pick your higher end powers wisely so that there is not much duplication, then I would think that is could be an interesing tank.
  • reginamala78
    reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2013

    I looked at the stats for the Fleet Support Cruiser and I like having the Lt. Commander sci boff slot so I could have TSSIII, HEII, and PHI; but what I do not like is not having a Commander and Lt. Commander which allows me to have RSP III, RSP II, and Eng Team III. Having those abilities makes me extremely durable. Although I could have RSP III, RSP II, and Eng Team II on the Fleet Support Cruiser; having Eng Team III is something I would prefer. On all my ships I focus on tanking as I do not care as much about doing a ton of damage.

    You really need to learn to not depend so heavily on RSP (not saying as a jerk, but its a skill you need to work on is all). RSP is a great 'oh TRIBBLE' button for emergencies, but you shouldn't need it nearly so often, maybe once a mission if that. Stay mobile to keep your defense up (or use their blind spots), use Rotate Shield Frequency on top of EPTS to bolster your shield hardness to unreasonable levels, Miracle Worker for those few times they manage to actually hurt you. To me the joy of playing a tank cruiser is that, short of PVPers and a few super-spike boss fights, is getting to say "Oh you were shooting at me? Sorry, didn't notice."

    As for the dual engineering team, particularly with the shared cooldowns with tactical team, its likewise overkill. One ET is handy for clearing disable procs and as a flash hull heal, but Aux2SIF (with enough aux behind it) heals for almost as much while also boosting your hull resist and being able to pop it off twice as often without creating cooldown conflicts (in a healboat anyways). I used to swear by ET as well, but I've since converted over. :D

    I put together an 'advice' build if you're interested. I tried to keep it thematically similar to the layouts you initially posted, just adjusted for a Fleet Support Cruiser and 'tidied up' a bit. Link is here.

    By having the Omega Torpedo plus Assimilated Console, you'll get the Omega Weapon Amplifier to help control all your drain and boost your damage. The Obelisk 2-piece will boost your AP of course, and the Borg 2-piece will jack up your hull recovery considerably.

    Run with your energy settings of 100/20/20/60 or so and you'll be throwing out some pretty big heals, and with the warp core's [A->S] ability, plus EPTS, plus bonuses from the MACO shield and simply being an Engineer, you'll have pretty high shield energy and resistances as well, despite running the base at only 20.

    For the AP arrays and consoles I just put in the cheaply farmable ones for now, which you can replace with Fleet equivalents when they become available.

    With the FAW, 3 tac consoles, a +Threat console, and 3 points in Threat Control, you'll be able to pull and hold aggro from most queue pugs and a lot of channel pugs. The only guys you won't be able to pull aggro away from are likely killing things so quickly that tanking won't matter anyways. And the extra APB (or APD if you like) will help your team.

    Doffs, 3 Damage Control to let you keep the EPTS and EPTW always on (or close enough, 94% I think the math works out to even on blue doffs), then add a blue-quality Fabrication Engineering that enhances RSP duration (purple is ridiculously expensive, but blue is only a few hundred grand). With one spot left you can see what comes out in the next lockbox, or use the one that boosts threat when using APD if you go that route.

    I just really think working more on maneuvering and buffing your resistances will help your overall durability more than just more heals. And if you want to be a threat-holding tank and solid team healer, a well built Fleet Support Cruiser just does that really really well, better than anything short of a lockbox ship, while still having proper Federation lines. Its just my own opinion, but I hope there's something useful for you in here.
  • darthtrekker4400
    darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    In terms of your build, I'd suggest using fire at will instead of overload (If you want to play tanky in stf's, best way to do that is to try and hold the aggro of your team) However, That's because i use it on an Aux2bat build, I'm not really sure how it'd work without it...

    Makes sense that a tank should us FAW to draw fire off of the team some. I will have to switch to using FAW instead of BO on my Star Cruiser and use FAW on the Fleet ship I decide to get.

    Also, considering you are going full armour with no turn boosters, I'd suggest replacing the Romulan Torpedo launcher with another beam array, As that gives you an extra gun to broadside with!

    I may switch the Rommie Torp out for the KCB which I was planning on having in the spot the Omni-directional beam is but once it came out I decided the omni was better since I can boost its damage with my tac consoles. The reason I have the torp is for KSE and ISE when taking down the nanite transformers I can position my ship just right so I can fire all 8 of my weapons on it, and with the Rom Torp I can take them down quicker and the same goes for the gates in both of theose missions.
    I'd recommend you with the Fleet Exploration, (Not just because i am a die-hard galaxy fan ) but if, as you say, You are more interested in tanking - You have absolutely no need for the saucer separation console (All it does is reduce your turn rate and bump some power to weapons, but you loose a significant amount of hull and crew).
    So, that brings it to 1 person for the Fleet Star Cruiser, 2 people for the Fleet Support Cruiser, and 1 person for the Fleet Expo Cruiser.
  • darthtrekker4400
    darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    As for the dual engineering team, particularly with the shared cooldowns with tactical team, its likewise overkill. One ET is handy for clearing disable procs and as a flash hull heal, but Aux2SIF (with enough aux behind it) heals for almost as much while also boosting your hull resist and being able to pop it off twice as often without creating cooldown conflicts (in a healboat anyways). I used to swear by ET as well, but I've since converted over. :D

    Only reason I had the 2nd eng team in the ensign slot is because I though it would be more useful then another emergency to __ ability. I am thinking of switching out RSP III for AuxtoSIF III and then having Eng Team III, RSP II, RSP I, Extend Shields I, Emer to S I, and Emer to W I (plus Emer to Aux I on the Fleet Expo).

    Thanks for the other suggestions, I may actually get the fleet support cruiser but would like to hear what other peoople think before I totally commit to it.
  • doffingcomrade
    doffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Fleet Amby is simply superior to the Star Cruiser and Failaxy. The Amby has a flexible seating arrangement that allows you to configure it both for combat and support. The other two do not, having locked in arrangement that, really, aren't really any good at either of those things.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ajax1983
    ajax1983 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited November 2013

    Thanks for the other suggestions, I may actually get the fleet support cruiser but would like to hear what other peoople think before I totally commit to it.

    I was flying the Retrofit Ambassador since it first came out as my main ship. I decided a few weeks ago to upgrade to the fleet version. I saved my EC and got the modules on the exchange and finally made my purchase a week or so ago. The Fleet Ambassador is a really good ship for my playstyle, and I'd suggest it to anyone looking for a well rounded cruiser.

    It would be nice to see a few more flying around the galaxy too!
  • darthtrekker4400
    darthtrekker4400 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well, shortly after the game finished patching today I decided to get the Fleet Star Cruiser because of the 4 sci consoles, having an ensign sci instead of engi, faster turn rate, and being able to use the mirror skin. I am glad I got this ship. I am able to quite easily tank against anything I have done so far (Contested Zone in Dyson Sphere going against a citadel and its support ships on my own, and against the cubes/gates in KSE). The build I am using so far is http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=ussindomitablefleetstarcruiserbuild_0

    Thank you all for the suggestions you provided me.