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My Thoughts on the Dreadnough Cruiser
zathris
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
I decided to right this in order to express my ideas (i acknowledge that many have said much of this before) for an upgrade to some existing c-store ships that have been on the market for some time and no longer meet/balance against the more recent similar to or even the same price c-store ships. One of my greatest disappointments came from the fed galaxy-x / dreadnought cruiser is was never quite worth the 2500 c-store points it cost due to not having as much hull points, turn speed, tactical bridge officer layout, and the severe let down that is the phaser spinal lance. So here is my idea to make this more competitive/balanced to current c-store ships as well as make it more in-tune (in my opinion of-course) with how it appeared in the tv show.I think there are two choices for the Dreadnought Cruiser first is to simply fix the existing problems and change nothing else but an alternate which i have heard rumors being considered which is making it into a 3 pack deal much as many of the newer ships are coming out now days. I prefer the idea of a 3 pack but i will address what i think should be done with the single unit as is and express my ideas for the 3 pack as well.
The First problem that needs fixing is hull: the original had only 39000 they have improved this to 40000 but to make this competitive and more in-tune to its own name i think it should be raised again to 41000 as the largest fed cruiser the odyssey has 42000 but it is bigger so i believe this balances it.
The Second problem that most people complain about is the turn speed. I honestly think since this is a big cruiser that the turn speed is fine where it is but a small tweek of one maybe two points should be considered to appease the bulk of customers as this is a store and selling this unit will be easier this way.
The Third problem of the bridge officer layout can be address by simply switching the lieutenant commander engineering with the lieutenant tactical, making its layout much more capable of utilizing dual cannons it can equip and giving it more ability to do damage which is more balance to the Klingon and Romulan ships as well as giving credence to the dreadnought part of its name.
The Fourth and in my opinion the biggest problem is the phaser spinal lance. This weapon has three major let downs. 1: the visual of this thing firing is nothing like the tv show, in game when you fire it looks like this huge orange roughly beam shape haze comes out twice that is nothing like the phaser lance in the show, which was a tight slightly larger than normal phaser beam that fired 8 times (that's right I was nerd enough to count it) in a quick salvo. 2: The power of the weapons is no where near what many other weapons are able to do in terms of dps the TV show has this weapon destroying a Klingon battle cruiser entirely on its own where as the game no matter what combination of skills and consoles and abilities you apply it can not do it even by half. 3: The cool-down on this weapon is one of the longest in the entire game and if adjusted correctly could completely mitigate its lack of power. I believe the best way to use the phaser spinal lance is as the fifth forward weapon slot making it marginally more powerful than say dual heavy cannons but giving it a shield penetration ability and please update its visual this would make it closer to the TV show and more on par with the current ships.
These changes i think should be universal even if you go with the 3 pack deal, but to my idea for consoles for the 3 pack is as such:
Engineering version console i think should be a structural integrity unit that give greater hull strength and better survival for crew similar to the advance fleet consoles only slightly stronger
Tactical console is already there as the cloaking console
Science console is a special one, the idea i got from watching the show when they did an emergency beam out of the entire crew of the Pastur. Make the console give and ability called emergency team (or something like that) which beams in (or out to a team mate) a combo of tactical, science, and engineering team giving all the same buffs as the bridge officer ability's of the same name (tactical team, engineering team, science team) all at once plus a refresh for your alive crew. this would be a strong ability with a good cool-down to balance it.
The 2 piece set bonus would be where i would adjust the turn speed just like the romulan dreadnought set
the 3 piece set bonus would be where i grant a long cool-down power up to the phaser spinal lance something like a beam overload but with a great deal more damage at the cost of drain all weapon power for a short time.
The First problem that needs fixing is hull: the original had only 39000 they have improved this to 40000 but to make this competitive and more in-tune to its own name i think it should be raised again to 41000 as the largest fed cruiser the odyssey has 42000 but it is bigger so i believe this balances it.
The Second problem that most people complain about is the turn speed. I honestly think since this is a big cruiser that the turn speed is fine where it is but a small tweek of one maybe two points should be considered to appease the bulk of customers as this is a store and selling this unit will be easier this way.
The Third problem of the bridge officer layout can be address by simply switching the lieutenant commander engineering with the lieutenant tactical, making its layout much more capable of utilizing dual cannons it can equip and giving it more ability to do damage which is more balance to the Klingon and Romulan ships as well as giving credence to the dreadnought part of its name.
The Fourth and in my opinion the biggest problem is the phaser spinal lance. This weapon has three major let downs. 1: the visual of this thing firing is nothing like the tv show, in game when you fire it looks like this huge orange roughly beam shape haze comes out twice that is nothing like the phaser lance in the show, which was a tight slightly larger than normal phaser beam that fired 8 times (that's right I was nerd enough to count it) in a quick salvo. 2: The power of the weapons is no where near what many other weapons are able to do in terms of dps the TV show has this weapon destroying a Klingon battle cruiser entirely on its own where as the game no matter what combination of skills and consoles and abilities you apply it can not do it even by half. 3: The cool-down on this weapon is one of the longest in the entire game and if adjusted correctly could completely mitigate its lack of power. I believe the best way to use the phaser spinal lance is as the fifth forward weapon slot making it marginally more powerful than say dual heavy cannons but giving it a shield penetration ability and please update its visual this would make it closer to the TV show and more on par with the current ships.
These changes i think should be universal even if you go with the 3 pack deal, but to my idea for consoles for the 3 pack is as such:
Engineering version console i think should be a structural integrity unit that give greater hull strength and better survival for crew similar to the advance fleet consoles only slightly stronger
Tactical console is already there as the cloaking console
Science console is a special one, the idea i got from watching the show when they did an emergency beam out of the entire crew of the Pastur. Make the console give and ability called emergency team (or something like that) which beams in (or out to a team mate) a combo of tactical, science, and engineering team giving all the same buffs as the bridge officer ability's of the same name (tactical team, engineering team, science team) all at once plus a refresh for your alive crew. this would be a strong ability with a good cool-down to balance it.
The 2 piece set bonus would be where i would adjust the turn speed just like the romulan dreadnought set
the 3 piece set bonus would be where i grant a long cool-down power up to the phaser spinal lance something like a beam overload but with a great deal more damage at the cost of drain all weapon power for a short time.
Post edited by zathris on
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Comments
I'm unsure on the Hull upgrade. I don't think it's needed but it certainly wouldn't be over power especially considering the slow turn rate.
1 point of turn and you have the Assault and Star Cruisers, 2 and your on Par with the Excelsior. People who complain about the Galaxies Turn rate need to use Mine Consoles or get over it. It's where it is meant to be, unless you want to see every ship except Carriers get the same turn rate upgrades.
If you want a Lt.Com Tac slot there are 3 ships that do that the Avenger, Excelsior and Regent. I think this ship should stay Engineering Heavy but both it and the Galaxy R should get universal Ensigns.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
sorry, but no, wrong idea. this ship have enought hull already and bring some more will not change its efficiency in the slightest.
it as already been done, gecko use it as an "excuse" to let the other stats untouched.
so please don't give him an excuse to do it again, they are far more important stats to balanced than hull, beside this hull will be raised automatically by 10% when the fleet version come out.
so we really don't need to focus the changes on that point.
you can't said to give him 1 or 2 more turn rate, just like that, like you were talking about apples or whatelse.
it is turn rate you are talking about. +1 turn is a very good boost, 2 turn is HUGE.
+1 will bring him to the level of turn of an assault cruiser, star cruiser, scimitar dreadnought, wich can be justify considering all the other cruiser.
but +2 will bring him to the level of the exelsior, and that a bit much.
i personally would be very happy if they give it just +1, it would allow me to remove 1 mine rcs, but i don't see a boost in its base turn rate stats happening, but more in a that bonus set that gecko mentioned.
i agree that the bo layout need a rework, and that a ltcommander tact is needed considering the tactical orientation of the ship ( especially when cryptic use the name dreadnought as an excuse to only give him 2 cruiser command with only one really usefull in the 2 )
but i will not do it like you suggest, but here it is just a playstyle point of view.
i have already posted my bo layout for this so i won't do it again now, but the layout i propose allow him to have a lt commander tact while keeping all it engi slot.
ho yes, the lance is a big problem, i am not a fan of it visual representation in the game but i think we should concentrated our effort on more important things.
like it accuracy and cooldown.
the problem is that we don't really known how it work, maybe giving it +10% accuracy would transform it into something OP, i don't known, it up to cryptic to make it suck less anyway.
a 2 minute cooldown would really change it perceive advantage.
but please don't waste a weapons slot for it, it is not worth it.
in the past the galaxy x use to have only 3 weapons slot in the back and the lance was the justification, it took some time before cryptic realize that the trade wasn't fair, please don't tempt them to redo that mistake again.
the lance is not worht a weapons slot.
as for a 3 pack bonus set, well gecko mentioned a set but not a 3 pack.
he want to use the cloack, the separation console and the antimatter spread console for the set.
we will see...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
The current phaser lance barely resembles how it was portrayed in "All Good Things". It was a rapid fire narrow beam weapon that used 4 quick shots to destroy a Negh'var, yet Cryptic chose make it a 2-shot Death-star style weapon with a ridiculous 3 minute cooldown. I'm starting to believe that the people who coded the lance didn't bother watching the episode in which it was used. >_<
My suggestions tries to make it more canon accurate. The lance should be an integrated ship weapon, so it should have a standard firing mode like all phaser weapons but consumes no actual slot (or a 5th slot of it becomes an actual weapon with its own icon). Here are some suggested stats:
Dreadnought Spinal Phaser Lance [Acc] [CrtD] [CrtH]
Energy Damage
45' targeting arc
to target: __ Phaser Damage (__ DPS) -- should be comparable to a Mk XII DC or DBB
to self: -12 Weapon Power when firing other weapons
to target: 10% chance: current shot ignores 100% of target's shields and 50% of
target's resists
+10% accuracy
+20% Critical Severity
+2% Critical chance
-Yes, I just borrowed the Elachi weapon proc for the phaser lance, but in this case it seems fitting. This also saves time by using already-existing game code, but with a higher proc rate (this can be adjusted later to maintain game balance).
-The new phaser lance can work with beam overload and FAW.
-The old dual-shot lance beam can still be retained, but it might be better to dump it given the new stats being proposed.
Good idea but i have a little trouble with two of your request. I disagree with swaping the LT Com ENG BOFF slots with the Tac BOFF slot. I am able to tank alot better because i have redundant 3nd or 3 level ENG healing powers. If you take that away then my survivability drops drasticly because I would be forced to endure a long healing cooldown. I say leave the ENG BOFF slots as is but change the LT amd ENS TAC Slot to LT COMM TAC slot so that the Dreadnought can have better use of its cannons or other 3rd level Tac abilities.
An ENS slot is mostly useless. If people want a LT COMM slot then get rid of the floating ENS slot. TAC, ENG or SCI ENS slots don't help much. People should not have to change over to a completely different class to get a favored ship improved.
You listening, Cryptic? I know I'm not the only one!
This is what I'm thinking. The Lance's energy type will match whatever you have set for all three Tac Consoles. If you have 3 Tetryon Pulse Gens, it's a Tet Lance. If it has three AP Mag Regulators, it's an AP Lance. Only caveat is that the Tac Consoles ALL have to be filled with the same thing.
Thoughts?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My name is Rage, and I too support a revised Galaxy family.
I don't expect the Gal X to be brought up to Avenger specs, but it certainly needs a good buffing and tweaking.
Armour and turn. About OK, a .5 turn increase could be nice.
This thing is an attacker, an assault ship. I say replace the Ensign tac slot with a Lt-Commander universal slot so you can put in a decent tac boff if you wish (or any boff depending on what you want) This will bring it up to similar specs to The Gal X, Neb retro cousin.
A boost to the weapon systems a +10 modifier maybe?
Shuttle bay: Can launch a single combat pet like the Vesta range. Does not affect Cruiser commands.
The Phaser Lance yes the biggie. My thoughts:
X2 Acc definitely.
Cooldown reduced to 1min / 1min 30sec, definitely.
Effective up to the full 10 km away not point blank as it is now.
45 degree forward arc/ cone as suggested. Shield penetrating abilities.
Switchable modes. (Tray Icon for each mode. Modes can right click on the icons so the mode auto fires when target(s) come into range. Or just single click to fire manually.)
1) Pulse blast, similar to what we have now a single large shotgun blast in the 45 deg cone, heavy shield and hull damage to multiple targets, high phaser proc taking enemy systems offline. (Think the red ball of doom of the Tvaro but a phaser blast instead.) Blast is spread over the 45deg area spread across any targets in that area.
2) Phaser lance, the traditional lance. 2-3 rapid beam pulses. Devastating against a single target, massive hull and shield damage, high phaser proc chance.
However, I dislike the idea of saucer seperation for the Gal-X. One would guess, that not having saucer seperation is the tradeoff for having a big gun strapped to the underside of your primary hull. If the Gal-X got Saucer sep, there would be no further reason to use the Galaxy-R. I think that would dissapoint a lot of people.
I agree phaser Lance need stronger I mean practice terms faster cool down be ideal fact combine fire normal weapons in few second can do more damage then it. I seen starship chew Borg Cube in a few less then 3 minutes that just weapon the ship itself.
Cryptic, please redo this ship correctly. Give it a real spinal phaser that shoots quickly without the bloated "death-star beam" misrepresentation.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/35002799/aview/_BURG__gCGk___KGrHgoH_CwEjlLlwwEDBKMosli8OQ___1.JPG
http://www.cpsphotography.com/ebayauctions/st_enterprise_d_agt_sepratd.jpg
http://img2.mlstatic.com/star-trek-uss-enterprise-d-all-good-things_MLB-O-3677940328_012013.jpg