1: It's been stated the engineers at PWE are working at making the Arc launcher extremely lean, and that it won't have bloatware, hog system resources, or use your personal information without your consent.
My question: Will the EULA regarding Arc have this in fine print? There have been other companies who have caught flak for saying one thing, but the EULA saying the exact opposite. One of your legal experts should weigh in on this. Will there be unambiguous fine print in the EULA saying specifically that our data won't be tracked/used without our permission?
2: How lean is "lean"? What PWE's definition of lean software might be very different from someone else's. For the lay people, what would Arc be comparable to in terms of other applications in regards to using systems resources?
3: Somewhat related to Arc, but can we expect website functionality to be more user friendly? For instance I can't really use the dev tracker any longer because clicking pages 2, 3, etc. fails to load and brings me back to the most recent posts on the tracker. This is just one of many website issues I've had with STO, but not having user-friendly access to the dev tracker has been one of my chief gripes for ages.
4: Will Arc automatically shut down after you stop playing a particular PWE game, or is this something I'm going to have to manually exit out of once I'm done playing STO for the day?
5: Please tell me there will be no audio alerts or other similar scripts in the launcher.
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dezstravusMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 2Arc User
Any plans for tighter integration with the user-driven wiki? On some games a /wiki <topic> will bring up the appropriate wiki page.
We would like to provide links to important Wiki pages from within Arc. Our hope is that the next big launch of Arc should have this feature built-in. At the same time, the experience of editing the Wiki and creating an account to edit will continue to exist "outside" the PW network/infrastructure as the Wiki for STO is currently hosted on the Curse network.
What are your plans for SQA - Which operating systems will you target? XP/Vista/Win7/Win8? Will you test using Wine on Linux and on whatever Mac-equivalent is available? Will Linux/Wine/Mac be made part of the Arc product requirements? I tried installing Arc on an old Linux PC a few months back and was unable to complete it, but the STO launcher worked fine.
Right now we are developing Arc for Windows, and we test in environments that use Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8. No plans to officially support Mac or Linux at this time.
Of course, if you decide to try out Arc in Wine, I'd still be curious to hear your experience. We won't be able to guarantee total compatibility/functionality, though we can still forward bugs and issues that happen through Wine to the developers to see what their thoughts are, in case they are able to come up with any solutions or suggestions.
Will we be able to login to two accounts on the same PC? It's handy to have a free account right now to pass Bridge Officers between alts on my main - currently I can run two instances of STO just fine on a single computer.
Great question! I have seen a couple people ask about running multiple clients at the same time, though I'm not sure how specifically this is affected by launching STO with the new version of Arc we are developing. I'll try to get some information on this.
A related question, will Arc run correctly behind a NAT router? I have multiple PCs setup in my house and sometimes my son likes to game with me - will that still be possible?
Yes, the game should continue to work properly when run on a network that is behind a NAT router.
The performance/configuration data gathering - if we opt out, will Arc still be required to stay on during/out of games?
I've seen some questions regarding whether or not Arc can be safely closed after launching an application. I'm not sure what the answer to that question is yet. Let me find out and post an update to the thread once I have more info.
I like the idea of keeping a separate chat window, since often while switching toons I can miss fleet messages in our private channel and /tells.
I've seen some questions regarding whether or not Arc can be safely closed after launching an application. I'm not sure what the answer to that question is yet. Let me find out and post an update to the thread once I have more info.
Safe or not, it BETTER be able to be closed after launching a game. :mad:
1: It's been stated the engineers at PWE are working at making the Arc launcher extremely lean, and that it won't have bloatware, hog system resources, or use your personal information without your consent.
My question: Will the EULA regarding Arc have this in fine print? There have been other companies who have caught flak for saying one thing, but the EULA saying the exact opposite. One of your legal experts should weigh in on this. Will there be unambiguous fine print in the EULA saying specifically that our data won't be tracked/used without our permission?
The vision to keep Arc light and lean is more of a design philosophy than a legal agreement. I apologize that I'm not involved enough in the legal process to comment on any specifics regarding any potential updates to the EULA. The best advice I can offer is to review the privacy policy hosted on the Perfect World website: http://www.perfectworld.com/about/privacy
2: How lean is "lean"? What PWE's definition of lean software might be very different from someone else's. For the lay people, what would Arc be comparable to in terms of other applications in regards to using systems resources?
Great question. Once again, this comes back to being more of a design goal than a specific promise or measurement. The best way to describe it would be to say that we understand that people don't like bloatware, because we don't like bloatware, so we're committed to not making bloatware.
We want our platform to meet the standards of enthusiast gamers, so we'll be monitoring data very closely to ensure that performance remains tight. We're also happy to look at player-submitted reports of resource usage so that we can identify areas for improvement.
3: Somewhat related to Arc, but can we expect website functionality to be more user friendly? For instance I can't really use the dev tracker any longer because clicking pages 2, 3, etc. fails to load and brings me back to the most recent posts on the tracker. This is just one of many website issues I've had with STO, but not having user-friendly access to the dev tracker has been one of my chief gripes for ages.
Our current roadmap doesn't have any changes coming to the forums, though I definitely agree that an upgrade would be nice.
4: Will Arc automatically shut down after you stop playing a particular PWE game, or is this something I'm going to have to manually exit out of once I'm done playing STO for the day?
The design goal of Arc is to remain open in the background so that you can evoke Arc's functionality via an in-game overlay. Things like a browser/chat/game info/etc. So, currently it's not being designed with the goal of being closed after a game is launched.
I would say that we're doing everything we can to ensure that having the client remain open has a minimal impact on game performance, if any. However, if we see a trend that players are routinely closing the client for a measurable increase in FPS, then we will definitely look into it.
5: Please tell me there will be no audio alerts or other similar scripts in the launcher.
Another great question! Actually I have no idea. I'll put this on the list of Q's for follow up.
No amount of PR talk is gonna make me want or appreciate yet another useless bloatware. Hearing ARC is eventually gonna be mandatory is indeed sad news. The only PWE game I play is STO and nothing will change about that - I simply have no time nor desire to play another MMO, regardless of how "fun" they are, so I simply don't need another glorified client running in the background. I enjoy the ability to launch STO as the only app, especially since the launcher is what it is - a launcher, as it closes the moment the game starts, thus is not draining any resources. And if I wanted any additional functionality, like additional chat or whatever, then I'd just simply use Steam or any other handy 3rd party overlay that's OPTIONAL, not mandatory.
Also - what about Steam? Will Steam users be required to use two clients eventually as well? Cause if you plan to remove all your games from steam just because of your "glorious" client then you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. On the other hand, keep in mind that having two clients AND the game can be a serious drain on some people's rigs.
Heck, STO is already somewhat tricky on my computer as it is, especially after LoR release, which did something with the game's engine that increased the memory usage, which makes instances like New Romulus, many social areas or the upcoming Battlezone barely playable regardless of graphics settings. It's because of such instances why I'd rather don't have any additional useless bloatware running in the background, regardless of how "well optimized" it is.
Long story short - do not like, do not want, disappointed you force it upon us.
PS. I wonder how many players will quit because of this. And no doubt some will - I personally am boycotting EA's Origin to this very day, not buying and playing any of their newer games regardless of how "good" they may be, just because they've decided to force their crappy client on everyone, just like PWE is doing now...
Thank you for your prompt response and honest communication. It's more appreciated than you might think, and certainly helps me swallow the news better. I look forward to the follow-ups.
It's not a matter or resources or system specs, i don't want it at all. If it advertises anything other than STO to me it fails. If it uses my internet for any service PWe wants to provide it fails. I don't need a special overlay for chat, mail, web browsing or whatever social media website of the week. All i want is to play STO.
The current launcher patches the game and launches the game, this is all the functionality i require. The only advertisements i see are about the game i'm getting ready to play, i don't want or care to see anything about your other 2 billion games or what new bobble has been added to some other game.
You aren't even looking to bring multi OS support with this (IE linux/Mac) so in my view whats the point.
And before you inform me about how much easier it will make things for you i'll remind you that i'm not you and i don't really care how complicated your stuff is thats your problem not mine. As the customer my only concern is how i'm effected by your changes, ARC is universally a bad change for me.
As far as the mandatory use of ARC how's that going to work for those of us that don't have ARC installed? if it breaks my client and i have to uninstall the game i can tell you right now that it won't get re-installed.
How can I play if I don't want arc? Will this be only option to launch sto?
Please tell me that I don't have to uninstall sto if I want to avoid arc, because I will quit if this will be forced on us and not optional.
With all due respect, I do not want Arc. I have no intention of playing other Perfect World games and I'm not interested in a "middleman" program that I have to use in order to get into STO. I like how it always is, I have the STO launcher in order to play STO.
And I'm not interested in Arc's features, because I already have access to similar usage and I like it just fine.
i see the reasoning behind the transfer to ARC if i remember right we can still launch from steam and buy zen there. Will i be able to keep using Steam if i uninstalled STO from my computer? after ARC goes live?
I happily play this game via wine, and hearing that im practically being "forced" to quit this game till i can actually get a PC(mac was a gift, so getting a pc wont be as easy) when arc is required is not making me very happy. Like I said before, i already use steam, and i am NOT going to readily put another program on my computer, which is practically a steam copy restricted to PWE games. All in all, if ARC is forced on me, theres a high chance i will never play this game or any other ARC game until I can play without ARC. I dont like being forced to download ARC or any other program like it in order to play a game. No matter how much i actually enjoy this game, i will most likely quit and spend my time elsewhere.
Even if i managed to get ARC to work via wineskin, how in the world am i going to be able to play the game since the code for the game itself only works on PC. I dont see how i can put a wineskin inside a wineskin...
Also - what about Steam? Will Steam users be required to use two clients eventually as well? Cause if you plan to remove all your games from steam just because of your "glorious" client then you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. On the other hand, keep in mind that having two clients AND the game can be a serious drain on some people's rigs.
We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow. Specifically, we definitely understand that having a Platform application launch a second platform application is indeed not optimal. So, we plan to allow Steam users to launch STO without launching the full Arc client in tandem.
It's not a matter or resources or system specs, i don't want it at all. If it advertises anything other than STO to me it fails. If it uses my internet for any service PWe wants to provide it fails. I don't need a special overlay for chat, mail, web browsing or whatever social media website of the week. All i want is to play STO.
The current launcher patches the game and launches the game, this is all the functionality i require. The only advertisements i see are about the game i'm getting ready to play, i don't want or care to see anything about your other 2 billion games or what new bobble has been added to some other game.
You aren't even looking to bring multi OS support with this (IE linux/Mac) so in my view whats the point.
And before you inform me about how much easier it will make things for you i'll remind you that i'm not you and i don't really care how complicated your stuff is thats your problem not mine. As the customer my only concern is how i'm effected by your changes, ARC is universally a bad change for me.
As far as the mandatory use of ARC how's that going to work for those of us that don't have ARC installed? if it breaks my client and i have to uninstall the game i can tell you right now that it won't get re-installed.
So, how screwed are Mac users using Wine are going to be?
That brings up an interesting question. Supposedly, a Mac port is being worked on. This either means: a) there will be a Mac port of Arc, or b) the Mac would continue using the old STO launcher...
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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dezstravusMember, Cryptic DevelopersPosts: 2Arc User
I do not want ARC.
I do not want to touch ARC.
I do not want to use ARC.
I will not USE ARC.
Get it through your heads, PWE. I don't want yet another Steam like program thingy whatever. I already HAVE Steam.
Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and for giving us the chance to address them. Your feedback is logical and very understandable. In this particular situation, I would just recommend considering that unifying the technology of our websites and game launchers is a necessary step for us, simply due to our immense growth. As a multi-game publisher, we need a solid infrastructure to support all our games, and maintaining several different launchers and websites is no longer optimal from an engineering perspective. I understand that it can be annoying to download new software, so with that in mind I would just reiterate that we're committed to doing everything we can to ensure the best possible experience though the transition.
So, please feel free to post your experiences and feedback throughout this process. If you have specific things you'd like to see (or not see), we are definitely open to hearing them. As with all feedback, it's all about being realistic, and including specifics.
Also, if you haven't tried it out yet, I encourage you to do a quick test of Arc just to see exactly what we're looking at building. As someone who grew up uninstalling toolbars from my parents' computers, and using propriety software to transfer songs to my first-gen 32mb MP3 player, I can definitely understand that the initial reluctance to "required" software. Fortunately, our first-hand experience of that reluctance is what enables us to make something that actually is lightweight and unobtrusive. We genuinely want to make an application that our players enjoy using.
Thanks again for sharing your feedback! As always, please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts.
We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow.
Like you didn't plan on making Arc mandatory?
It's been a long time since I launched through Steam, but my recollection is that Steam can't patch the STO client, so all it did was launch the STO launcher. How are you going to keep the Steam flow intact without the launcher?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I've tested ARC, and heard from people who've tested ARC, and here's my feedback on the matter:
our first goal is to make Arc a simple, lightweight, and unobtrusive game delivery platform.
You have failed this goal spectacularly. Everyone who's tested ARC, myself included, has noticed frame rate reductions due to the fact that ARC is running (and is a BIT of a memory hog). ARC is intrusive in the fact that you're forced to use it, intrusive in that it reserves ten GIGABYTES of hard drive space in preparation for you installing games, and intrusive in that it makes games harder to play by virtue of lag. So, I have a FEW recommendations:
1: Stop producing ARC entirely.
As said, ARC is intrusive to say the least. If people want to play Perfect World games, the Perfect World website is more than sufficient for pointing them where they need to go to get them. You do not need a specialized client reserving memory space and taking up CPU to add excess convenience. I also note here the HUGE similarity to Valve's Steam platform (which is both better designed and less of a memory guzzler), so it is at least conceivable that Valve could drum up some legal issues over what might be considered a Steam ripoff.
2: Declining the first suggestion, at least make the system less of a pain.
This will be broken into several sub-components. A: Delete the Browser
I remember reading that ARC included a built-in browser. Since some people in times past noticed (or thought they noticed) a plugin into Internet Explorer. I suspect this is FOR said built-in browser. In short, ARC does not NEED a browser built-in. Anyone using it has a browser that is likely superior and that can be opened with the same troubles as ARC's. It'd likely benefit much from just not having the browser ANYWAY. Steam doesn't have a browser, and no one's ever complained. B: Make ARC an opt-in system.
One of my biggest pet peeves with Steam is that, to play the games on it (my example is Skyrim), it needs to be open on your computer. ARC doesn't need to duplicate this. Let those who want ARC have it, but don't force it on those who don't want it. Bad for business to force something a customer doesn't want on them. C: Make the "reserved hard drive space" an optional - and customizable - feature.
I have no intention of playing other Perfect World games at this time. Between school and house life, I barely have time for STO as it is. I don't need ARC to reserve hard drive space that I won't USE. Conversely, those that play a LOT of your games might want more space. So, when the client is being installed, ask the player two questions. "Would you like ARC to reserve space on your hard drive for games?" If yes, "How much space would you like reserved?" Here you give them a slider, between one and... say, 30 GB. 10 GB barely holds Holodeck, and having Tribble bumps that OVER. 20-30 GB is more reasonable for those that WANT the space. This improves quality of life for all players, and increases their propensity to give you money. Happy customers are good for business. Take another look at the client optimization.
As said, ARC uses a noticeable amount of CPU memory (according to my Task Manager, though I don't recall the EXACT number off-hand). Much of that may be the browser (so 2A would solve this), but it's POSSIBLE that the ARC client could use some further optimization to ensure a minimal CPU profile - making it less unobtrusive and more well-received by customers.
In short, this system needs a lot of work before I'd willingly use it. In fact, in the state it's in, if it became mandatory today, I would leave this game - and Perfect World - behind. Which says a lot, Star Trek Online is by far my favorite MMO, possibly my favorite GAME, and definitely a lot of fun. But I won't play it with ARC, not in this state.
As a multi-game publisher, we need a solid infrastructure to support all our games, and maintaining several different launchers and websites is no longer optimal from an engineering perspective.
I thank you for commenting on my post. That said, you do remember that any of your Cryptic launchers can run any and all of your Cryptic games, right?
In any Launcher, hit Options - Show All Games. Once chosen, you'll have a dropdown that allows you to pick between any of the installed Cryptic titles. Not sure if it allows you to install other games right from there (can't test as I have all 3 games installed).
There. Problem solved. One launcher that runs all of your own titles.
The problem is that it doesn't let you run PWE's games. Which no doubt is PWE's goal here. And why I, and others, don't want it. I have no interest in playing any of PWE's titles. I only want yours.
I thank you for commenting on my post. That said, you do remember that any of your Cryptic launchers can run any and all of your Cryptic games, right?
In any Launcher, hit Options - Show All Games. Once chosen, you'll have a dropdown that allows you to pick between any of the installed Cryptic titles. Not sure if it allows you to install other games right from there (can't test as I have all 3 games installed).
There. Problem solved. One launcher that runs all of your own titles.
The problem is that it doesn't let you run PWE's games. Which no doubt is your goal here. And why I, and others, don't want it. I have no interest in playing any of PWE's titles. I only want yours.
That's kind of the point. If it was only Cryptic's games... that'd be one thing. But since PWE is more than just Cryptic, Arc is being designed to accomodate the entire PWE portfolio of games. I'm not a fan of Arc, but I do know what necessary evil is.
And I do understand from an infrastructure perspective that Arc is required. It's not for our benefit so much as it is PWE's benefit to have a single unifying launcher rather than trying to work around several different types of launchers for different games made by different studios.
I'm glad to see that there are no plans to interrupt Steam flow, particularly since there's the "Steam Bundle" you can buy from there (and only there), and I really don't think Cryptic has any plans of damaging their relationship with them, since Steam is a viable additional revenue source.
My main issues are that:
A: The EULA reflects Mr. Holmes commentary that this isn't going to be bloatware or spyware. The jury is still out on that. I hate to be cynical but I'd much rather have this in writing. I refuse to have Origin installed chiefly because of EA's mistakes in this particular area.
B: The end product is as unobtrusive and lean as their philosophy indicates it to be. The jury is still out on that. But the subsequent commentary from other posters does make me skeptical -- particularly if Arc reserves gigabytes of space on my hard drive for PWE games I have absolutely no interest in ever installing.
But I do appreciate Mr. Holmes honest communication on the matter, even if I may not like some of the answers. That's at least one thing PWE is doing right that EA did wrong.
Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and for giving us the chance to address them. Your feedback is logical and very understandable. In this particular situation, I would just recommend considering that unifying the technology of our websites and game launchers is a necessary step for us, simply due to our immense growth. As a multi-game publisher, we need a solid infrastructure to support all our games, and maintaining several different launchers and websites is no longer optimal from an engineering perspective. I understand that it can be annoying to download new software, so with that in mind I would just reiterate that we're committed to doing everything we can to ensure the best possible experience though the transition.
So, please feel free to post your experiences and feedback throughout this process. If you have specific things you'd like to see (or not see), we are definitely open to hearing them. As with all feedback, it's all about being realistic, and including specifics.
Also, if you haven't tried it out yet, I encourage you to do a quick test of Arc just to see exactly what we're looking at building. As someone who grew up uninstalling toolbars from my parents' computers, and using propriety software to transfer songs to my first-gen 32mb MP3 player, I can definitely understand that the initial reluctance to "required" software. Fortunately, our first-hand experience of that reluctance is what enables us to make something that actually is lightweight and unobtrusive. We genuinely want to make an application that our players enjoy using.
Thanks again for sharing your feedback! As always, please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts.
I do not care. I am not interested. Here are 2 simple reasons why(and then some other commentary):
1. I have a web browser and I know how to use it. The Cryptic Websites just need to fix the bad code errors with Chrome but I have other browsers if I absolutely must see the pictures in some article.
2. Run the Launcher, Hit Options, Check the "Show all games" button and now you have one Cryptic Launcher that shows all the Cryptic Games. Taa....Daa. I currently play CO, NW, and STO all from my CO Launcher. It's that simple.
So, if it all possible please make this an "option" for no other reason than I have no desire to have this particular program because, for me, it offers me nothing to validate the space it would take up no matter how "lean" it is. if I ever decide to try out Blacklight Retribution(the only PW Game I've seen which even remotely captures any of my potential interest) then I can download it myself.
Also, does this mean you'll be shifting more towards the Arc program and less towards the actual websites? This is all fine and dandy for people who already play your games but I cannot think it sends a positive message towards newbies and such who are looking to try out your games. In alot of situations the "social media" sites are already used far more than the websites and official forums as a means relay important information. Also worth mentioning your websites have a loading error with images that's been documented on the CO Forums for Chrome users as it stands now. I just cannot see how this improves the already severely lackluster marketing of some of the Cryptic Titles. It seems almost like it's a "because it's easier to handle" at the cost of "we sure would like new players."
And to put this into a STO Context I just started playing STO a few days ago and I must say, from a newbie to this game perspective, between the tutorial(I'm Romulan if this helps) and the forums for actual information this game is not the most newbie friendly game when it comes to getting the basics of information on how to accomplish some of the simplest tasks. It took me roughly 2 hours and change to find This article buried in an "Archived Post" just to learn the basics which the tutorial/help system either skips or has absolutely horrible timing about sharing with the player. Unless I completely overlooked something(entirely possible) I do not think the Cryptic Brand can handle less website presence if you want new players and, let's be honest, all MMOs want newbies. Now you just have to overcome their frustration in your game to get them to sub or shell out Zen. Most newbies I know wouldn't take the time to look up information like this or don't have friends in CO/NW who play STO to badger with questions. What happens to them?
Ok, that's my feedback. I suspect we're just going through the motions and that we're likely well past the point of no return on this particular decision but I just wanted to put this out there for consideration since, in my experiences, sometimes the overall marketing/PR aspects of Cryptic's Games are not IMO handled in the best way possible. Also, Arc is kinda redundant from the original points in my post as I see it. if it's optional then that's fine. I can already play all three games with one launcher as I stated before. I'm fine and I suspect I'm not the only one who is fine either.
As with any additional software, my first instinct is very, very negative. I do not at all want to install something additional in order to keep doing what I've been doing for a long time. I do not like Steam, I do not like Origin, I do not want anything like that on my computer.
If Arc use becomes mandatory, whoever is developing it better make darn sure that it is at least as unobtrusive as the current STO launcher or less so, or else I will be extremely disappointed.
Oh, one more question. Since you've been so honest, Mr. Holmes... I'm going to be honest too.
Any chance you can talk to the guys at marketing and see if we can get some kind of promotion that gives us a cookie for installing Arc by a certain date?
Kind of like the promotion where we got a cookie for linking our Cryptic and PWE accounts? I wouldn't mind getting 16,000 dilithium and some other perks for being nice and compliant by a certain date.
Just being honest here. A little bit of sugar would help me decide whether or not I want to install Arc.
Comments
1: It's been stated the engineers at PWE are working at making the Arc launcher extremely lean, and that it won't have bloatware, hog system resources, or use your personal information without your consent.
My question: Will the EULA regarding Arc have this in fine print? There have been other companies who have caught flak for saying one thing, but the EULA saying the exact opposite. One of your legal experts should weigh in on this. Will there be unambiguous fine print in the EULA saying specifically that our data won't be tracked/used without our permission?
2: How lean is "lean"? What PWE's definition of lean software might be very different from someone else's. For the lay people, what would Arc be comparable to in terms of other applications in regards to using systems resources?
3: Somewhat related to Arc, but can we expect website functionality to be more user friendly? For instance I can't really use the dev tracker any longer because clicking pages 2, 3, etc. fails to load and brings me back to the most recent posts on the tracker. This is just one of many website issues I've had with STO, but not having user-friendly access to the dev tracker has been one of my chief gripes for ages.
4: Will Arc automatically shut down after you stop playing a particular PWE game, or is this something I'm going to have to manually exit out of once I'm done playing STO for the day?
5: Please tell me there will be no audio alerts or other similar scripts in the launcher.
We would like to provide links to important Wiki pages from within Arc. Our hope is that the next big launch of Arc should have this feature built-in. At the same time, the experience of editing the Wiki and creating an account to edit will continue to exist "outside" the PW network/infrastructure as the Wiki for STO is currently hosted on the Curse network.
Right now we are developing Arc for Windows, and we test in environments that use Windows XP, Vista, 7, and 8. No plans to officially support Mac or Linux at this time.
Of course, if you decide to try out Arc in Wine, I'd still be curious to hear your experience. We won't be able to guarantee total compatibility/functionality, though we can still forward bugs and issues that happen through Wine to the developers to see what their thoughts are, in case they are able to come up with any solutions or suggestions.
Great question! I have seen a couple people ask about running multiple clients at the same time, though I'm not sure how specifically this is affected by launching STO with the new version of Arc we are developing. I'll try to get some information on this.
Yes, the game should continue to work properly when run on a network that is behind a NAT router.
I've seen some questions regarding whether or not Arc can be safely closed after launching an application. I'm not sure what the answer to that question is yet. Let me find out and post an update to the thread once I have more info.
Yes, that's the idea.
Safe or not, it BETTER be able to be closed after launching a game. :mad:
Luckily I have my original install cd's and a copy of the old installer....
The vision to keep Arc light and lean is more of a design philosophy than a legal agreement. I apologize that I'm not involved enough in the legal process to comment on any specifics regarding any potential updates to the EULA. The best advice I can offer is to review the privacy policy hosted on the Perfect World website: http://www.perfectworld.com/about/privacy
Great question. Once again, this comes back to being more of a design goal than a specific promise or measurement. The best way to describe it would be to say that we understand that people don't like bloatware, because we don't like bloatware, so we're committed to not making bloatware.
We want our platform to meet the standards of enthusiast gamers, so we'll be monitoring data very closely to ensure that performance remains tight. We're also happy to look at player-submitted reports of resource usage so that we can identify areas for improvement.
Our current roadmap doesn't have any changes coming to the forums, though I definitely agree that an upgrade would be nice.
The design goal of Arc is to remain open in the background so that you can evoke Arc's functionality via an in-game overlay. Things like a browser/chat/game info/etc. So, currently it's not being designed with the goal of being closed after a game is launched.
I would say that we're doing everything we can to ensure that having the client remain open has a minimal impact on game performance, if any. However, if we see a trend that players are routinely closing the client for a measurable increase in FPS, then we will definitely look into it.
Another great question! Actually I have no idea. I'll put this on the list of Q's for follow up.
Points for the honesty.
Also - what about Steam? Will Steam users be required to use two clients eventually as well? Cause if you plan to remove all your games from steam just because of your "glorious" client then you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. On the other hand, keep in mind that having two clients AND the game can be a serious drain on some people's rigs.
Heck, STO is already somewhat tricky on my computer as it is, especially after LoR release, which did something with the game's engine that increased the memory usage, which makes instances like New Romulus, many social areas or the upcoming Battlezone barely playable regardless of graphics settings. It's because of such instances why I'd rather don't have any additional useless bloatware running in the background, regardless of how "well optimized" it is.
Long story short - do not like, do not want, disappointed you force it upon us.
PS. I wonder how many players will quit because of this. And no doubt some will - I personally am boycotting EA's Origin to this very day, not buying and playing any of their newer games regardless of how "good" they may be, just because they've decided to force their crappy client on everyone, just like PWE is doing now...
It's not a matter or resources or system specs, i don't want it at all. If it advertises anything other than STO to me it fails. If it uses my internet for any service PWe wants to provide it fails. I don't need a special overlay for chat, mail, web browsing or whatever social media website of the week. All i want is to play STO.
The current launcher patches the game and launches the game, this is all the functionality i require. The only advertisements i see are about the game i'm getting ready to play, i don't want or care to see anything about your other 2 billion games or what new bobble has been added to some other game.
You aren't even looking to bring multi OS support with this (IE linux/Mac) so in my view whats the point.
And before you inform me about how much easier it will make things for you i'll remind you that i'm not you and i don't really care how complicated your stuff is thats your problem not mine. As the customer my only concern is how i'm effected by your changes, ARC is universally a bad change for me.
As far as the mandatory use of ARC how's that going to work for those of us that don't have ARC installed? if it breaks my client and i have to uninstall the game i can tell you right now that it won't get re-installed.
Please tell me that I don't have to uninstall sto if I want to avoid arc, because I will quit if this will be forced on us and not optional.
And I'm not interested in Arc's features, because I already have access to similar usage and I like it just fine.
Even if i managed to get ARC to work via wineskin, how in the world am i going to be able to play the game since the code for the game itself only works on PC. I dont see how i can put a wineskin inside a wineskin...
I do not want to touch ARC.
I do not want to use ARC.
I will not USE ARC.
Get it through your heads, PWE. I don't want yet another Steam like program thingy whatever. I already HAVE Steam.
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We don't plan on making changes to the Steam flow. Specifically, we definitely understand that having a Platform application launch a second platform application is indeed not optimal. So, we plan to allow Steam users to launch STO without launching the full Arc client in tandem.
*points up*
This.
That brings up an interesting question. Supposedly, a Mac port is being worked on. This either means: a) there will be a Mac port of Arc, or b) the Mac would continue using the old STO launcher...
Thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and for giving us the chance to address them. Your feedback is logical and very understandable. In this particular situation, I would just recommend considering that unifying the technology of our websites and game launchers is a necessary step for us, simply due to our immense growth. As a multi-game publisher, we need a solid infrastructure to support all our games, and maintaining several different launchers and websites is no longer optimal from an engineering perspective. I understand that it can be annoying to download new software, so with that in mind I would just reiterate that we're committed to doing everything we can to ensure the best possible experience though the transition.
So, please feel free to post your experiences and feedback throughout this process. If you have specific things you'd like to see (or not see), we are definitely open to hearing them. As with all feedback, it's all about being realistic, and including specifics.
Also, if you haven't tried it out yet, I encourage you to do a quick test of Arc just to see exactly what we're looking at building. As someone who grew up uninstalling toolbars from my parents' computers, and using propriety software to transfer songs to my first-gen 32mb MP3 player, I can definitely understand that the initial reluctance to "required" software. Fortunately, our first-hand experience of that reluctance is what enables us to make something that actually is lightweight and unobtrusive. We genuinely want to make an application that our players enjoy using.
Thanks again for sharing your feedback! As always, please feel free to continue sharing your thoughts.
Like you didn't plan on making Arc mandatory?
It's been a long time since I launched through Steam, but my recollection is that Steam can't patch the STO client, so all it did was launch the STO launcher. How are you going to keep the Steam flow intact without the launcher?
You have failed this goal spectacularly. Everyone who's tested ARC, myself included, has noticed frame rate reductions due to the fact that ARC is running (and is a BIT of a memory hog). ARC is intrusive in the fact that you're forced to use it, intrusive in that it reserves ten GIGABYTES of hard drive space in preparation for you installing games, and intrusive in that it makes games harder to play by virtue of lag. So, I have a FEW recommendations:
1: Stop producing ARC entirely.
As said, ARC is intrusive to say the least. If people want to play Perfect World games, the Perfect World website is more than sufficient for pointing them where they need to go to get them. You do not need a specialized client reserving memory space and taking up CPU to add excess convenience. I also note here the HUGE similarity to Valve's Steam platform (which is both better designed and less of a memory guzzler), so it is at least conceivable that Valve could drum up some legal issues over what might be considered a Steam ripoff.
2: Declining the first suggestion, at least make the system less of a pain.
This will be broken into several sub-components.
A: Delete the Browser
I remember reading that ARC included a built-in browser. Since some people in times past noticed (or thought they noticed) a plugin into Internet Explorer. I suspect this is FOR said built-in browser. In short, ARC does not NEED a browser built-in. Anyone using it has a browser that is likely superior and that can be opened with the same troubles as ARC's. It'd likely benefit much from just not having the browser ANYWAY. Steam doesn't have a browser, and no one's ever complained.
B: Make ARC an opt-in system.
One of my biggest pet peeves with Steam is that, to play the games on it (my example is Skyrim), it needs to be open on your computer. ARC doesn't need to duplicate this. Let those who want ARC have it, but don't force it on those who don't want it. Bad for business to force something a customer doesn't want on them.
C: Make the "reserved hard drive space" an optional - and customizable - feature.
I have no intention of playing other Perfect World games at this time. Between school and house life, I barely have time for STO as it is. I don't need ARC to reserve hard drive space that I won't USE. Conversely, those that play a LOT of your games might want more space. So, when the client is being installed, ask the player two questions. "Would you like ARC to reserve space on your hard drive for games?" If yes, "How much space would you like reserved?" Here you give them a slider, between one and... say, 30 GB. 10 GB barely holds Holodeck, and having Tribble bumps that OVER. 20-30 GB is more reasonable for those that WANT the space. This improves quality of life for all players, and increases their propensity to give you money. Happy customers are good for business.
As said, ARC uses a noticeable amount of CPU memory (according to my Task Manager, though I don't recall the EXACT number off-hand). Much of that may be the browser (so 2A would solve this), but it's POSSIBLE that the ARC client could use some further optimization to ensure a minimal CPU profile - making it less unobtrusive and more well-received by customers.
In short, this system needs a lot of work before I'd willingly use it. In fact, in the state it's in, if it became mandatory today, I would leave this game - and Perfect World - behind. Which says a lot, Star Trek Online is by far my favorite MMO, possibly my favorite GAME, and definitely a lot of fun. But I won't play it with ARC, not in this state.
What I think about Arc: [Insert flaming here]
Will the old installers (if you still have them) continue to function in installing and updating STO via the old launcher?
The current Arc bloat/spyware periodically scans all your hard drives and logs any programs you open, then sends this data to PWE.
My question regarding this is, are these being removed from the new version of Arc?
I thank you for commenting on my post. That said, you do remember that any of your Cryptic launchers can run any and all of your Cryptic games, right?
In any Launcher, hit Options - Show All Games. Once chosen, you'll have a dropdown that allows you to pick between any of the installed Cryptic titles. Not sure if it allows you to install other games right from there (can't test as I have all 3 games installed).
There. Problem solved. One launcher that runs all of your own titles.
The problem is that it doesn't let you run PWE's games. Which no doubt is PWE's goal here. And why I, and others, don't want it. I have no interest in playing any of PWE's titles. I only want yours.
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That's kind of the point. If it was only Cryptic's games... that'd be one thing. But since PWE is more than just Cryptic, Arc is being designed to accomodate the entire PWE portfolio of games. I'm not a fan of Arc, but I do know what necessary evil is.
And I do understand from an infrastructure perspective that Arc is required. It's not for our benefit so much as it is PWE's benefit to have a single unifying launcher rather than trying to work around several different types of launchers for different games made by different studios.
I'm glad to see that there are no plans to interrupt Steam flow, particularly since there's the "Steam Bundle" you can buy from there (and only there), and I really don't think Cryptic has any plans of damaging their relationship with them, since Steam is a viable additional revenue source.
My main issues are that:
A: The EULA reflects Mr. Holmes commentary that this isn't going to be bloatware or spyware. The jury is still out on that. I hate to be cynical but I'd much rather have this in writing. I refuse to have Origin installed chiefly because of EA's mistakes in this particular area.
B: The end product is as unobtrusive and lean as their philosophy indicates it to be. The jury is still out on that. But the subsequent commentary from other posters does make me skeptical -- particularly if Arc reserves gigabytes of space on my hard drive for PWE games I have absolutely no interest in ever installing.
But I do appreciate Mr. Holmes honest communication on the matter, even if I may not like some of the answers. That's at least one thing PWE is doing right that EA did wrong.
I do not care. I am not interested. Here are 2 simple reasons why(and then some other commentary):
1. I have a web browser and I know how to use it. The Cryptic Websites just need to fix the bad code errors with Chrome but I have other browsers if I absolutely must see the pictures in some article.
2. Run the Launcher, Hit Options, Check the "Show all games" button and now you have one Cryptic Launcher that shows all the Cryptic Games. Taa....Daa. I currently play CO, NW, and STO all from my CO Launcher. It's that simple.
So, if it all possible please make this an "option" for no other reason than I have no desire to have this particular program because, for me, it offers me nothing to validate the space it would take up no matter how "lean" it is. if I ever decide to try out Blacklight Retribution(the only PW Game I've seen which even remotely captures any of my potential interest) then I can download it myself.
Also, does this mean you'll be shifting more towards the Arc program and less towards the actual websites? This is all fine and dandy for people who already play your games but I cannot think it sends a positive message towards newbies and such who are looking to try out your games. In alot of situations the "social media" sites are already used far more than the websites and official forums as a means relay important information. Also worth mentioning your websites have a loading error with images that's been documented on the CO Forums for Chrome users as it stands now. I just cannot see how this improves the already severely lackluster marketing of some of the Cryptic Titles. It seems almost like it's a "because it's easier to handle" at the cost of "we sure would like new players."
And to put this into a STO Context I just started playing STO a few days ago and I must say, from a newbie to this game perspective, between the tutorial(I'm Romulan if this helps) and the forums for actual information this game is not the most newbie friendly game when it comes to getting the basics of information on how to accomplish some of the simplest tasks. It took me roughly 2 hours and change to find This article buried in an "Archived Post" just to learn the basics which the tutorial/help system either skips or has absolutely horrible timing about sharing with the player. Unless I completely overlooked something(entirely possible) I do not think the Cryptic Brand can handle less website presence if you want new players and, let's be honest, all MMOs want newbies. Now you just have to overcome their frustration in your game to get them to sub or shell out Zen. Most newbies I know wouldn't take the time to look up information like this or don't have friends in CO/NW who play STO to badger with questions. What happens to them?
Ok, that's my feedback. I suspect we're just going through the motions and that we're likely well past the point of no return on this particular decision but I just wanted to put this out there for consideration since, in my experiences, sometimes the overall marketing/PR aspects of Cryptic's Games are not IMO handled in the best way possible. Also, Arc is kinda redundant from the original points in my post as I see it. if it's optional then that's fine. I can already play all three games with one launcher as I stated before. I'm fine and I suspect I'm not the only one who is fine either.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
If Arc use becomes mandatory, whoever is developing it better make darn sure that it is at least as unobtrusive as the current STO launcher or less so, or else I will be extremely disappointed.
Any chance you can talk to the guys at marketing and see if we can get some kind of promotion that gives us a cookie for installing Arc by a certain date?
Kind of like the promotion where we got a cookie for linking our Cryptic and PWE accounts? I wouldn't mind getting 16,000 dilithium and some other perks for being nice and compliant by a certain date.
Just being honest here. A little bit of sugar would help me decide whether or not I want to install Arc.