Not going to pick apart the pieces as you have done here because it is splitting hairs more than I'd like to. If anything you are confirming that the majority of the story of STO is quite unresolved.
Resolved or not, there's still no evidence that Starfleet is engaged in ten billion ongoing wars with a zillion ships across dozens of sectors at the same time.
Considering we last saw Sela run off with an Iconian and we know that they already had a few Iconian gates, I would think they would be pretty major.
Very likely, the Tal Shiar are the worst threat in the game, but right now, they're leaderless and tearing themselves apart in in-fighting. There's no ongoing WW2 style conflict with the Romulan Star Empire at this time. Even the Romulan Republic doesn't seem to be engaged in a life or death struggle with them after Sela is gone.
Exactly. I would have rather seen a season committed to Klingon Civil War and the advancement of their storyline. When you level you are odds with them but then you hit lvl 50 and you are all of a sudden best buds. But we would never see a whole season committed to KDF though would we?! :rolleyes:
In the original STFs, The Cure provided details about how relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire improved . . . though, revisions of the STFs have kind of ruined that.
It did set up a Ja'rod thing that's never been followed up on, which is a terrible shame because I'd love to see the KDF story advance further.
Resolved or not, there's still no evidence that Starfleet is engaged in ten billion ongoing wars with a zillion ships across dozens of sectors at the same time.
My experiences at endgame and PvE suggest otherwise, but to each their own.
Incidentally, I don't thnk we're looking at instant doom. I think we're looking at "special action will improve and prolong the life of the game." And I think we're always at that point but probably ESPECIALLY right now.
And I see a running problem. I've been negative towards Geko (when fueled by things said by alleged disgruntled insiders) and I've had points where I came around on Geko (when I hear Geko himself speak).
I've long accused Cryptic of having "systems mania" and being overly impressed by technical wizardry. Their fix to everything is a new system. Their big pushes are systems updates. When do they get cake and ice cream at the office? Systems pushes. Thing is, what we tend to wind up with are inconsistent and abandonware systems, something they've gotten marginally better about, while old design systems die out. I've long said the solution is rarely another system but I do frame suggestions in the form of systems because I expect it to take that form to get their attention. I think it's worth noting that the first podcaster was a systems guru in the community, Cryptic Cat was hired for being a systems guru, and we know that they have had Trek writers interested in working on the game who were turned down because the concern was that systems would become subservient to story rather than vice versa.
It's a running problem. Cryptic is stuck seeing things in Cryptic Vision. It isn't one guy. It's a culture.
And I think "dinosaurs with freakin' lasers" is an example of what the culture produces. (Please note, I've said before and will say again that Greek Gods, space dinosaurs, mobsters, time travel, etc. all belong in Trek, in my eyes, but that it's a problem when updates are high concepts with no standard content between to set a baseline. Space dinosaurs are great but they need to be a deviation from something else. We need non-exotic updates in between exotic, high concept ones.) Cryptic tends to emphasize playing concepts broadly with a heavy emphasis on technical design principles underlying the broad concepts. "It's something big and shiny that gives everyone on the team something to do!"
Now, if you suggest ship interiors or diplomacy systems, you get at best begrudging agreement. But ultimately, the Cryptic culture rebels and the response is, "That stuff is boring. This new stuff we're doing instead is cool."
And you know what? I think having the ability to recognize some of that talking heads stuff as boring and un-game-like is an asset. Yes.
HOWEVER... I don't think it's healthy for everyone in development to see the quieter stuff as boring or a majority of the leadership to see it as boring. And for those who find it boring (who are an asset), the problem is that they respond to things they find boring by ignoring them and doing something else instead. When I think the more professional and thoughtful response would be, "How do I make things that could easily be boring into things that are not boring?" As opposed to, "We avoid things that initially look boring. High concept dinoaurs! Rawr!"
And I say this as somebody who thinks the people at Cryptic are excellent, intelligent, dedicated people... But I think the culture is hindering the growth of the people as designers by serving them up junk food rather than challenging them to make the vegetables of the IPs they develop more fun.
And I think that's a task all great games and great designers do: they concentrate on making the vegetables of their properties fun rather than doubling down on junk food. It's more important to approach the challenges of making boring things interesting than it is to make interesting things simply exist.
So which one is it? What you're saying seems kind of contradictory.
In the long term, they are a massive threat due to their connections with the Iconians. Right now, they're too busy with in-fighting to wage war on anyone, including those in the breakaway Republic.
My experiences at endgame and PvE suggest otherwise, but to each their own.
PvE, especally at endgame, is made up of repeatable content, but that's not how it usually works out in the story. You can do The Cure a million times, but that doesn't mean the IKS Kang is just really unlucky and breaks down in the Vorn System all the time. The Tholians don't keep using those same four asteroids to capture the same few Romulan ships. You don't continually slay the Borg Queen.
Most story content is meant to have happened a single time, in 2409, in roughly the order it plays out. Most episodes are written as if only the player's ship is involved, as well. So, in the Breen story, there's no indication of a larger conflict between Starfleet (or the Empire) and the Breen, outside of what you see when you play through it. That's why a million things can seem to happen in a single year. You're experiencing parts of it multiple times.
Does some of it represent a larger conflict? Sure, but exactly what is up for debate.
In the long term, they are a massive threat due to their connections with the Iconians. Right now, they're too busy with in-fighting to wage war on anyone, including those in the breakaway Republic.
Exactly the storyline is left up in the air, just like every other storyline in-game it would seem.
PvE, especally at endgame, is made up of repeatable content, but that's not how it usually works out in the story. You can do The Cure a million times, but that doesn't mean the IKS Kang is just really unlucky and breaks down in the Vorn System all the time. The Tholians don't keep using those same four asteroids to capture the same few Romulan ships. You don't continually slay the Borg Queen.
Most story content is meant to have happened a single time, in 2409, in roughly the order it plays out. Most episodes are written as if only the player's ship is involved, as well. So, in the Breen story, there's no indication of a larger conflict between Starfleet (or the Empire) and the Breen, outside of what you see when you play through it. That's why a million things can seem to happen in a single year. You're experiencing parts of it multiple times.
Does some of it represent a larger conflict? Sure, but exactly what is up for debate.
Well, I've killed over 1,000 of each race (ground/space) and have a trophy/accolade to show for it. The screenshot today shows we are about to jump into yet another conflict with "zillions and zillions" of ships it would seem. Kind of hard to convince me everything up to this point has taken place in 1 year's time (2409).
Incidentally, I don't thnk we're looking at instant doom. I think we're looking at "special action will improve and prolong the life of the game." And I think we're always at that point but probably ESPECIALLY right now.
And I see a running problem. I've been negative towards Geko (when fueled by things said by alleged disgruntled insiders) and I've had points where I came around on Geko (when I hear Geko himself speak).
I've long accused Cryptic of having "systems mania" and being overly impressed by technical wizardry. Their fix to everything is a new system. Their big pushes are systems updates. When do they get cake and ice cream at the office? Systems pushes. Thing is, what we tend to wind up with are inconsistent and abandonware systems, something they've gotten marginally better about, while old design systems die out. I've long said the solution is rarely another system but I do frame suggestions in the form of systems because I expect it to take that form to get their attention. I think it's worth noting that the first podcaster was a systems guru in the community, Cryptic Cat was hired for being a systems guru, and we know that they have had Trek writers interested in working on the game who were turned down because the concern was that systems would become subservient to story rather than vice versa.
It's a running problem. Cryptic is stuck seeing things in Cryptic Vision. It isn't one guy. It's a culture.
And I think "dinosaurs with freakin' lasers" is an example of what the culture produces. (Please note, I've said before and will say again that Greek Gods, space dinosaurs, mobsters, time travel, etc. all belong in Trek, in my eyes, but that it's a problem when updates are high concepts with no standard content between to set a baseline. Space dinosaurs are great but they need to be a deviation from something else. We need non-exotic updates in between exotic, high concept ones.) Cryptic tends to emphasize playing concepts broadly with a heavy emphasis on technical design principles underlying the broad concepts. "It's something big and shiny that gives everyone on the team something to do!"
Now, if you suggest ship interiors or diplomacy systems, you get at best begrudging agreement. But ultimately, the Cryptic culture rebels and the response is, "That stuff is boring. This new stuff we're doing instead is cool."
And you know what? I think having the ability to recognize some of that talking heads stuff as boring and un-game-like is an asset. Yes.
HOWEVER... I don't think it's healthy for everyone in development to see the quieter stuff as boring or a majority of the leadership to see it as boring. And for those who find it boring (who are an asset), the problem is that they respond to things they find boring by ignoring them and doing something else instead. When I think the more professional and thoughtful response would be, "How do I make things that could easily be boring into things that are not boring?" As opposed to, "We avoid things that initially look boring. High concept dinoaurs! Rawr!"
And I say this as somebody who thinks the people at Cryptic are excellent, intelligent, dedicated people... But I think the culture is hindering the growth of the people as designers by serving them up junk food rather than challenging them to make the vegetables of the IPs they develop more fun.
And I think that's a task all great games and great designers do: they concentrate on making the vegetables of their properties fun rather than doubling down on junk food. It's more important to approach the challenges of making boring things interesting than it is to make interesting things simply exist.
You sir get a gold star... ^^^^^ that was some of the best written why things arnt running right thoughts that I have seen in a long long time..
I agree totally.. I find that totally revamping stuff and leaving older content behind is a waste of time..
for example.. the reputation system.. so we get 3 major reps to level, plus some little fun ones (ie, ce and summer).. well, something was wrong with the system cause it was boring, and blah, and what not.. so instead of fixing the system they spent a ton of time on, they now change how it works completely.. thus, the time spent making the original is a total waste..
ive always said that cryptic deals with band aids and butter fly bandages instead of getting the gaping wounds sewn up.. something doesn't work.. well pretend it doesn't exist, and move on to something else...
the ask cryptics are usually full of stuff like that.. someone will ask why x hasn't happened yet, and stahl will say, well x is cool, but we are working on y and z, which we think youll like more.. well I hate to say it, but some people were looking forward to x.. that moves us into the whole realm of well cryptic said, and they lied...
recently, I had a good friend (who is a game developer for a game that is currently still the most subscribed game on the planet lol) to download and play sto..
these were his thoughts..
he said something like wow, love the graphics, nice and crisp and lots of attention to detail.. he also like some (notice how I said some) of the story content.. he also liked how the game played..
however, and I never fully understood what he meant, but he said he could see what they were trying to do, but were coming up short.. now he never got into what he meant, but he was pretty disappointed overall with the game.. he said while its pretty, and fairly well polished, it lacks a few things, such as replayability.. sure, mission "can" be played over and over again, but there are so few repeatable, well written, and fun more than once missions, that it kind of tears at you after a while.. and I can most certainly agree with that.
his exact words were, that cryptic will never obtain what they are trying to create and maintain with a small team such as they have.. he is a graphics designer, he is responsible for character models, and works also on cut scenes and cinimatics.. he gave me an idea of what he meant by saying that there is literally about a hundred people that he works with just on those aspects.. and that when he is done, it probably touches a few hundred peoples hands, before it makes it to game.. he sumises, that there is 1 or 2 people doing what his whole department does, and that just doesn't work.. it is why so much gets chopped for a later season, and usually doesn't end up happening..
That is very true, the content in STO is pretty much ends up "play once and toss away". And they expect us to repeat playing the same content over and over and over again. Case in point anything in the PvE queues. It just gets boring after you playing it for the 10th time and when it comes to reputation or accolades or Fleet marks, it really gets you.
Like you said, it really is a band-aid over a bad wound. They give us the impression that they don't really want to commit to anything in-depth in fears it might fail, due to lack of interest, so they make simple content that's easy to throw out.
That's why I been advocating them actually make real exploration, and add more classic MMO roots like dungeon crawls, that have unique rewards that may take a long time to get. Something more than "same ol".
Exactly the storyline is left up in the air, just like every other storyline in-game it would seem.
That wasn't really my point. My point is that there's no life-or-death struggle going on between the Federation and the Romulans just because you fight them, anymore than there was when Picard fought them in TNG.
Some of the individual plotlines (the Empire plotting to attack Vulcan with subspace weapons, Hakeev, the Elachi attacking the Republic) have been more or less wrapped up, but I doubt there's ever going to be an episode where you blow up the entire Romulan Empire so that they can never threaten you again, so that kind of resolution isn't coming.
We'll likely be dealing with them on and off for years, and right now, it's "off".
(And yes, I'll admit that the Tal Shair/Iconian plot is still dangling.)
Well, I've killed over 1,000 of each race (ground/space) and have a trophy/accolade to show for it.
(. . . .)
Kind of hard to convince me everything up to this point has taken place in 1 year's time (2409).
Well, if you're not going to suspend disbelief over game mechanics, you're better off just giving up on immersion all together and admitting that the storyline has taken place between 2010-2013.
I can heal my captain by eating cat food between shootouts. That doesn't mean my character has Wolverine healing powers.
We have two debates here now, the two are really good.
About Cryptic:
Yes I agree about a culture problem. But this is not a problem only with Cryptic, many small developer companys have cultural problems.
I am a IT manager. The major part of the small software companys I come across have this issue with some people that "dominates" the team.
Cryptic says that they have a fun enviroment to work, perhaps, but when they come to content decisions, I bet one person decide alone by his own ego.
But... we forgot about PWE... how many influence PWE have on Cryptic? Are they the ones that come with the big hammer and say: "No, that will not make money, you need to profit, do this!"
About history line:
I think we are about to know a lot of those things... every season something is revealed to us. The Iconians are tied to everything, from the Klingon War to the Borg/Undine, to the Tal Shiar/Elachi.
In that Preserver arch on Defera was alive Preservers, they are even older than the Voth or the Iconians... If Cryptic put this game in the right track, fixing it's bugs and put more writer to work, we could have one of the best Sci-Fi game in history.
-- "If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
We have two debates here now, the two are really good.
About Cryptic:
Yes I agree about a culture problem. But this is not a problem only with Cryptic, many small developer companys have cultural problems.
I am a IT manager. The major part of the small software companys I come across have this issue with some people that "dominates" the team.
Cryptic says that they have a fun enviroment to work, perhaps, but when they come to content decisions, I bet one person decide alone by his own ego.
But... we forgot about PWE... how many influence PWE have on Cryptic? Are they the ones that come with the big hammer and say: "No, that will not make money, you need to profit, do this!"
About history line:
I think we are about to know a lot of those things... every season something is revealed to us. The Iconians are tied to everything, from the Klingon War to the Borg/Undine, to the Tal Shiar/Elachi.
In that Preserver arch on Defera was alive Preservers, they are even older than the Voth or the Iconians... If Cryptic put this game in the right track, fixing it's bugs and put more writer to work, we could have one of the best Sci-Fi game in history.
Go play mass effect and halo. This doesn't compete in terms of ground,
And they expect us to repeat playing the same content over and over and over again.
Metaphor time;
There are the drunks who stay at the bar until closing time sipping on our scotch while everyone else went home. They're also the drunks who show up at opening time to repeat the process while a new crowd comes through. And while they do nothing but drink scotch, they resent the bartender for focusing on serving the passing-through crowd their rum and cokes. In the end, it's not the bar's responsibly to change their business to scotch only just to make it easier for us to indulge in our habit because they make far more money from the partiers passing through each night. It is simply a logical choice. The needs of the many and all that.
But that doesn't stop the drunk from being resentful anyway because it's hard to accept when you're the one with the problem.
There are the drunks who stay at the bar until closing time sipping on our scotch while everyone else went home. They're also the drunks who show up at opening time to repeat the process while a new crowd comes through. And while they do nothing but drink scotch, they resent the bartender for focusing on serving the passing-through crowd their rum and cokes. In the end, it's not the bar's responsibly to change their business to scotch only just to make it easier for us to indulge in our habit because they make far more money from the partiers passing through each night. It is simply a logical choice. The needs of the many and all that.
But that doesn't stop the drunk from being resentful anyway because it's hard to accept when you're the one with the problem.
So what happens when the bar stops serving scotch altogether and will only give you rum and coke?
If Cryptic put this game in the right track, fixing it's bugs and put more writer to work, we could have one of the best Sci-Fi game in history.
And there's your foible.
They would need to hire more people to fix the bugs faster, as they already have a team working on finding and fixing bugs as fast a they can. And writers don't implement stories. They could hire 50 writers, but that doesn't get the stories into the game. For that you need artists, animators, programmers, etc. Now I supposed you want Cryptic to hire more people to do that too?
Now how are you going to pay for all those new bug fixers, writers, artists, animators, programmers, etc? Well, I guess that means you need more Lockboxes, more C-Store items, more Lobi Store items, etc - and more importantly you need players willing to buy stuff even faster then it's currently being produced and sold to us - not to mention you'll probably need to hire more new people just to make more stuff because of all the new people hired.
It's never as simple as simply saying: do what I want done.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
A Warning: Blizzard made a stupid decision when they dropped the great lore content of "Blizzard MMO" to put Pandas... the result: Big drop in player base.
Not important to Trek, but the Pandas have been around since "RTS series the Blizzard MMO is based on" 3
To the OP: I think you are extremely arrogant is respect to some of your views, you continue to talk like you know what a MAJOR part of the playerbase wants or likes. You don't. No one really does, as most people don't really participate in online drama like MMO forums such as this one and so don't take the polls etc.
Stop talking like you are speaking for a majority. You aren't you are speaking for a group of the same people who continuously bombard the forums with TRIBBLE posts about what they think is right or wrong with the game. No one cares what other MMO games you played, a lot of people these days have played a load of MMO's too. My self included. It has no bearing here as the MMO industry is constantly fluctuating.
Also when these threads are made, its usually done in a similar fashion to yours, as if they have some expert knowledge that they are privy too, and they are doing the developers a favour by sharing it. Such as a Galaxy refit. The only people that want a Galaxy refit are hardcore Trek geeks, who can't let TNG go. Which again, isn't the majority of players as you keep trying to make out. Or crying about more KDF content, when there is no reason to play KDF other than to be a Klingon and do some different missions. I am sick of hearing about KDF on these forums like its some kind of Masons/Illuminati order, that all the cool kids are KDF. Back in the day, they used to be the main PVP force to be reckoned with yeah, and thats probably where a lot of the supposed 'Kudos' from being KDF originates. Now they aren't top dog at pvp, and are therefore the same as the other factions but less interesting. If anyone is going to make an alternative to Fed, it will be a Romulan/Reman. The KDF needs a major overhaul, i agree with that, but it wont advance the game it will only keep some people who are already KDF happy. Thats not good profit making for PW, whether its right or wrong.
Here is a heads up: You aren't a developer. As the game is doing very well at the moment i don't think you or anyone else can question the decisions made. And with a very interesting looking season 8 on its way, i doubt that will change anytime soon.
People always hate on the new announcements, raging about **** they haven't even seen. Why not wait until season 8 releases before going into a stereotypical whine about dinosaurs. FFS get over the dinosaurs. It is symbolic of nothing that they are in S8, except in people's minds. Big lizards. In a sci-fi game. That has far, far weirder species and their lackeys all over the galaxy. Wooptedoo. GET OVER IT.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Sometimes I feel that Star Trek Fans are really Elitists and Racists... Like Klingon being Afro people, Romulans being europeans and asians and the Federation "White power" US people.
I was agreeing with everything you said up till this point. That's going too far. Stop with the race baiting. :mad:
STO needs a complete feature freeze , the massive gaps, holes and bugs in the game where it is blatantly obvious that features used to be here or got changed or left behind is so massively obvious while playing now that it really makes the game feel very tacky and patch-worked together, i mean for many of my friends who came into this game recently ALL said to me that they noticed a lot of inconsitances and were asking why stuff was where it was when it did nothing or telling me about the same bugs they were facing time after time again.
stop halt and fix and get stuff working before you get so far then realise that you cant do stuff cause there is to much work to do fixing other stuff to add good stuff in just to make it work.
Isn't it odd at what he finds offensive? He's upset at his delusions of racism but is perfectly content with women being abused in trafficking for the sex trade which is what Orion Slave Girls represent. :rolleyes:
This has been changed with Enterprise. The Orion Males are not in control, it is the Orion Slave Girls. By being offered as "slaves", they can influence influential beings in other governments to get what they want or get whatever information they want. The Undine are not the real threat, it is Orion females.
Incidentally, I don't thnk we're looking at instant doom. I think we're looking at "special action will improve and prolong the life of the game." And I think we're always at that point but probably ESPECIALLY right now.
And I see a running problem. I've been negative towards Geko (when fueled by things said by alleged disgruntled insiders) and I've had points where I came around on Geko (when I hear Geko himself speak).
I've long accused Cryptic of having "systems mania" and being overly impressed by technical wizardry. Their fix to everything is a new system. Their big pushes are systems updates. When do they get cake and ice cream at the office? Systems pushes. Thing is, what we tend to wind up with are inconsistent and abandonware systems, something they've gotten marginally better about, while old design systems die out. I've long said the solution is rarely another system but I do frame suggestions in the form of systems because I expect it to take that form to get their attention. I think it's worth noting that the first podcaster was a systems guru in the community, Cryptic Cat was hired for being a systems guru, and we know that they have had Trek writers interested in working on the game who were turned down because the concern was that systems would become subservient to story rather than vice versa.
It's a running problem. Cryptic is stuck seeing things in Cryptic Vision. It isn't one guy. It's a culture.
And I think "dinosaurs with freakin' lasers" is an example of what the culture produces. (Please note, I've said before and will say again that Greek Gods, space dinosaurs, mobsters, time travel, etc. all belong in Trek, in my eyes, but that it's a problem when updates are high concepts with no standard content between to set a baseline. Space dinosaurs are great but they need to be a deviation from something else. We need non-exotic updates in between exotic, high concept ones.) Cryptic tends to emphasize playing concepts broadly with a heavy emphasis on technical design principles underlying the broad concepts. "It's something big and shiny that gives everyone on the team something to do!"
Now, if you suggest ship interiors or diplomacy systems, you get at best begrudging agreement. But ultimately, the Cryptic culture rebels and the response is, "That stuff is boring. This new stuff we're doing instead is cool."
And you know what? I think having the ability to recognize some of that talking heads stuff as boring and un-game-like is an asset. Yes.
HOWEVER... I don't think it's healthy for everyone in development to see the quieter stuff as boring or a majority of the leadership to see it as boring. And for those who find it boring (who are an asset), the problem is that they respond to things they find boring by ignoring them and doing something else instead. When I think the more professional and thoughtful response would be, "How do I make things that could easily be boring into things that are not boring?" As opposed to, "We avoid things that initially look boring. High concept dinoaurs! Rawr!"
And I say this as somebody who thinks the people at Cryptic are excellent, intelligent, dedicated people... But I think the culture is hindering the growth of the people as designers by serving them up junk food rather than challenging them to make the vegetables of the IPs they develop more fun.
And I think that's a task all great games and great designers do: they concentrate on making the vegetables of their properties fun rather than doubling down on junk food. It's more important to approach the challenges of making boring things interesting than it is to make interesting things simply exist.
There are the drunks who stay at the bar until closing time sipping on our scotch while everyone else went home. They're also the drunks who show up at opening time to repeat the process while a new crowd comes through. And while they do nothing but drink scotch, they resent the bartender for focusing on serving the passing-through crowd their rum and cokes. In the end, it's not the bar's responsibly to change their business to scotch only just to make it easier for us to indulge in our habit because they make far more money from the partiers passing through each night. It is simply a logical choice. The needs of the many and all that.
But that doesn't stop the drunk from being resentful anyway because it's hard to accept when you're the one with the problem.
To me more accurate metaphor is a druggie.
The druggie has the option to stop, but he can't. And the Drug Dealer wants to keep that druggie high, because he would lose money if he doesn't.
STO is our drug, the Devs are the pushers, and we are the idiot druggies who got caught in the web. We either have the will to quit, moderate ourselves, or lose it all and get sucked in and become their puppets.
Space dinosaurs are great but they need to be a deviation from something else. We need non-exotic updates in between exotic, high concept ones.) Cryptic tends to emphasize playing concepts broadly with a heavy emphasis on technical design principles underlying the broad concepts. "It's something big and shiny that gives everyone on the team something to do!"
As others have said , +1 on your well thought out post .
As to Cryptic , I see 2 problems :
1) No serious long term planning .
(and thinking about the next "Season" is not long term planning)
2) Choosing 2 major updates per year (probably because it can be advertised better) , instead of a smaller update every 2-3 months .
And since this boils down to doing more for the game or more for their pockets -- it's the game (and it's players) that end up loosing .
recently, I had a good friend (who is a game developer for a game that is currently still the most subscribed game on the planet lol) to download and play sto..
Took his sweet time to play STO ...
these were his thoughts..
(snip)
his exact words were, that cryptic will never obtain what they are trying to create and maintain with a small team such as they have.. he is a graphics designer, he is responsible for character models, and works also on cut scenes and cinimatics.. he gave me an idea of what he meant by saying that there is literally about a hundred people that he works with just on those aspects.. and that when he is done, it probably touches a few hundred peoples hands, before it makes it to game.. he sumises, that there is 1 or 2 people doing what his whole department does, and that just doesn't work.. it is why so much gets chopped for a later season, and usually doesn't end up happening..
I'll remind you of STO's temp manage's words , while going F2P right around when SWOTOR came out : "we are not planning to match them . Instead we will do our own thing."
Cryptic cannot match your friend's game , not TOR .
That does not mean that they cannot do better then what they are doing now (stumbling from one Adventure Zone to the next) .
I am replaying some of the LOR content right now and I am amazed at the visual polish , while at the same time saddened at the "warp in , kill 3 squads , move on" game play ... as it's the exact same thing we've been doing since day one in PVE , with the exception of the old STF's , which by their sheer complexity makes me think that they seem like they were made by a different company .
Not important to Trek, but the Pandas have been around since "RTS series the Blizzard MMO is based on" 3
Just saying...
And I think people who have a problem with dinosaurs in Trek are overstating a valid case much as people who had a problem with pandas in that other game were overstating a valid case.
Nobody flipped out that the other game had Fur Bolgs or pandaren pets. They flipped out when an expansion hinged on it. It's not that pandas didn't belong. It's that they didn't belong AT THE CENTER. They belonged AT THE FRINGES.
Which is where we're at with dinosaurs.
Something that belongs in the background or at the fringes is being placed at the center and will occupy the center for an uncomfortably long time.
Both the pandas and the dinosaurs are the MMO equivalent of Rob Schneider movies. They have their fans. They belong to a beloved ensemble. And placing them front and center can only be the result of colossally insulated decision making.
It's not that I don't want Rob Schneider to make movies or that I wish anything awful on the guy or his career. I just don't want him as the headliner and I think people not wanting him as the headliner is a sane, utterly predictable response.
Did double take at first, but actually hearing Geko on Priority One, made me realise id judged it without evening thinking about it properly.
Geko is a decent dude, who loves trek as much as anyone, and I've enjoyed everything they have made so far (Yeah maybe not Terradome, been playing since Beta, I remember that *shakes fist*) So I'm sure I will enjoy this. Pennies well spent, if you don't like Dinosaurs, then don't play that Content.
They would need to hire more people to fix the bugs faster, as they already have a team working on finding and fixing bugs as fast a they can. And writers don't implement stories. They could hire 50 writers, but that doesn't get the stories into the game. For that you need artists, animators, programmers, etc. Now I supposed you want Cryptic to hire more people to do that too?
Now how are you going to pay for all those new bug fixers, writers, artists, animators, programmers, etc? Well, I guess that means you need more Lockboxes, more C-Store items, more Lobi Store items, etc - and more importantly you need players willing to buy stuff even faster then it's currently being produced and sold to us - not to mention you'll probably need to hire more new people just to make more stuff because of all the new people hired.
It's never as simple as simply saying: do what I want done.
well ic an say yes.. I do expect them to hire what is needed to keep up with the game..
the cryptics sto team, is laughably the smallest game development team out there, aside from some college kids in a dorm making something for fun..
cryptic being so much smaller is the exact reason that it does not make as much "content", and has twice as many bugs and broken down hardware issues than anyother game I have ever played..
trust me, cryptic is making money, just look at how many avengers hit the server in the first hour it was available.. they puroposely keep the staff small to make more money, but in the end, it will be their undoing.. as when you look at the number of people who poll, and your friends lists, and the amount of fleets that are closing their doors cause there isn't anyone logging in anymore. I myself have been seeing a major decline in active people..
I have a feeling that season 8 is gonna pretty much end it for another batch of people who have been on the fence.. half of my friends fleet has already stopped playing, largely in part to the new seasons anouncements.. and they will get an influx of 8 and 10 year olds who cant afford to buy anything..
so yes, I do expect them to do what they need to do to make this game better.. sometimes you have to spend money to make money..
trust me, cryptic is making money, just look at how many avengers hit the server in the first hour it was available.. they puroposely keep the staff small to make more money, but in the end, it will be their undoing.. as when you look at the number of people who poll, and your friends lists, and the amount of fleets that are closing their doors cause there isn't anyone logging in anymore. I myself have been seeing a major decline in active people..
I have a feeling that season 8 is gonna pretty much end it for another batch of people who have been on the fence.. half of my friends fleet has already stopped playing, largely in part to the new seasons anouncements.. and they will get an influx of 8 and 10 year olds who cant afford to buy anything..
I love the subjective arguments followed up by doom philosophy. It's what makes gaming forums exciting.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Comments
Resolved or not, there's still no evidence that Starfleet is engaged in ten billion ongoing wars with a zillion ships across dozens of sectors at the same time.
Very likely, the Tal Shiar are the worst threat in the game, but right now, they're leaderless and tearing themselves apart in in-fighting. There's no ongoing WW2 style conflict with the Romulan Star Empire at this time. Even the Romulan Republic doesn't seem to be engaged in a life or death struggle with them after Sela is gone.
In the original STFs, The Cure provided details about how relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire improved . . . though, revisions of the STFs have kind of ruined that.
It did set up a Ja'rod thing that's never been followed up on, which is a terrible shame because I'd love to see the KDF story advance further.
So which one is it? What you're saying seems kind of contradictory.
My experiences at endgame and PvE suggest otherwise, but to each their own.
And I see a running problem. I've been negative towards Geko (when fueled by things said by alleged disgruntled insiders) and I've had points where I came around on Geko (when I hear Geko himself speak).
I've long accused Cryptic of having "systems mania" and being overly impressed by technical wizardry. Their fix to everything is a new system. Their big pushes are systems updates. When do they get cake and ice cream at the office? Systems pushes. Thing is, what we tend to wind up with are inconsistent and abandonware systems, something they've gotten marginally better about, while old design systems die out. I've long said the solution is rarely another system but I do frame suggestions in the form of systems because I expect it to take that form to get their attention. I think it's worth noting that the first podcaster was a systems guru in the community, Cryptic Cat was hired for being a systems guru, and we know that they have had Trek writers interested in working on the game who were turned down because the concern was that systems would become subservient to story rather than vice versa.
It's a running problem. Cryptic is stuck seeing things in Cryptic Vision. It isn't one guy. It's a culture.
And I think "dinosaurs with freakin' lasers" is an example of what the culture produces. (Please note, I've said before and will say again that Greek Gods, space dinosaurs, mobsters, time travel, etc. all belong in Trek, in my eyes, but that it's a problem when updates are high concepts with no standard content between to set a baseline. Space dinosaurs are great but they need to be a deviation from something else. We need non-exotic updates in between exotic, high concept ones.) Cryptic tends to emphasize playing concepts broadly with a heavy emphasis on technical design principles underlying the broad concepts. "It's something big and shiny that gives everyone on the team something to do!"
Now, if you suggest ship interiors or diplomacy systems, you get at best begrudging agreement. But ultimately, the Cryptic culture rebels and the response is, "That stuff is boring. This new stuff we're doing instead is cool."
And you know what? I think having the ability to recognize some of that talking heads stuff as boring and un-game-like is an asset. Yes.
HOWEVER... I don't think it's healthy for everyone in development to see the quieter stuff as boring or a majority of the leadership to see it as boring. And for those who find it boring (who are an asset), the problem is that they respond to things they find boring by ignoring them and doing something else instead. When I think the more professional and thoughtful response would be, "How do I make things that could easily be boring into things that are not boring?" As opposed to, "We avoid things that initially look boring. High concept dinoaurs! Rawr!"
And I say this as somebody who thinks the people at Cryptic are excellent, intelligent, dedicated people... But I think the culture is hindering the growth of the people as designers by serving them up junk food rather than challenging them to make the vegetables of the IPs they develop more fun.
And I think that's a task all great games and great designers do: they concentrate on making the vegetables of their properties fun rather than doubling down on junk food. It's more important to approach the challenges of making boring things interesting than it is to make interesting things simply exist.
In the long term, they are a massive threat due to their connections with the Iconians. Right now, they're too busy with in-fighting to wage war on anyone, including those in the breakaway Republic.
PvE, especally at endgame, is made up of repeatable content, but that's not how it usually works out in the story. You can do The Cure a million times, but that doesn't mean the IKS Kang is just really unlucky and breaks down in the Vorn System all the time. The Tholians don't keep using those same four asteroids to capture the same few Romulan ships. You don't continually slay the Borg Queen.
Most story content is meant to have happened a single time, in 2409, in roughly the order it plays out. Most episodes are written as if only the player's ship is involved, as well. So, in the Breen story, there's no indication of a larger conflict between Starfleet (or the Empire) and the Breen, outside of what you see when you play through it. That's why a million things can seem to happen in a single year. You're experiencing parts of it multiple times.
Does some of it represent a larger conflict? Sure, but exactly what is up for debate.
TEH DEVS IS BEING MEAN TO US!!!
:rolleyes:
Exactly the storyline is left up in the air, just like every other storyline in-game it would seem.
Well, I've killed over 1,000 of each race (ground/space) and have a trophy/accolade to show for it. The screenshot today shows we are about to jump into yet another conflict with "zillions and zillions" of ships it would seem. Kind of hard to convince me everything up to this point has taken place in 1 year's time (2409).
You sir get a gold star... ^^^^^ that was some of the best written why things arnt running right thoughts that I have seen in a long long time..
I agree totally.. I find that totally revamping stuff and leaving older content behind is a waste of time..
for example.. the reputation system.. so we get 3 major reps to level, plus some little fun ones (ie, ce and summer).. well, something was wrong with the system cause it was boring, and blah, and what not.. so instead of fixing the system they spent a ton of time on, they now change how it works completely.. thus, the time spent making the original is a total waste..
ive always said that cryptic deals with band aids and butter fly bandages instead of getting the gaping wounds sewn up.. something doesn't work.. well pretend it doesn't exist, and move on to something else...
the ask cryptics are usually full of stuff like that.. someone will ask why x hasn't happened yet, and stahl will say, well x is cool, but we are working on y and z, which we think youll like more.. well I hate to say it, but some people were looking forward to x.. that moves us into the whole realm of well cryptic said, and they lied...
recently, I had a good friend (who is a game developer for a game that is currently still the most subscribed game on the planet lol) to download and play sto..
these were his thoughts..
he said something like wow, love the graphics, nice and crisp and lots of attention to detail.. he also like some (notice how I said some) of the story content.. he also liked how the game played..
however, and I never fully understood what he meant, but he said he could see what they were trying to do, but were coming up short.. now he never got into what he meant, but he was pretty disappointed overall with the game.. he said while its pretty, and fairly well polished, it lacks a few things, such as replayability.. sure, mission "can" be played over and over again, but there are so few repeatable, well written, and fun more than once missions, that it kind of tears at you after a while.. and I can most certainly agree with that.
his exact words were, that cryptic will never obtain what they are trying to create and maintain with a small team such as they have.. he is a graphics designer, he is responsible for character models, and works also on cut scenes and cinimatics.. he gave me an idea of what he meant by saying that there is literally about a hundred people that he works with just on those aspects.. and that when he is done, it probably touches a few hundred peoples hands, before it makes it to game.. he sumises, that there is 1 or 2 people doing what his whole department does, and that just doesn't work.. it is why so much gets chopped for a later season, and usually doesn't end up happening..
Like you said, it really is a band-aid over a bad wound. They give us the impression that they don't really want to commit to anything in-depth in fears it might fail, due to lack of interest, so they make simple content that's easy to throw out.
That's why I been advocating them actually make real exploration, and add more classic MMO roots like dungeon crawls, that have unique rewards that may take a long time to get. Something more than "same ol".
That wasn't really my point. My point is that there's no life-or-death struggle going on between the Federation and the Romulans just because you fight them, anymore than there was when Picard fought them in TNG.
Some of the individual plotlines (the Empire plotting to attack Vulcan with subspace weapons, Hakeev, the Elachi attacking the Republic) have been more or less wrapped up, but I doubt there's ever going to be an episode where you blow up the entire Romulan Empire so that they can never threaten you again, so that kind of resolution isn't coming.
We'll likely be dealing with them on and off for years, and right now, it's "off".
(And yes, I'll admit that the Tal Shair/Iconian plot is still dangling.)
Well, if you're not going to suspend disbelief over game mechanics, you're better off just giving up on immersion all together and admitting that the storyline has taken place between 2010-2013.
I can heal my captain by eating cat food between shootouts. That doesn't mean my character has Wolverine healing powers.
About Cryptic:
Yes I agree about a culture problem. But this is not a problem only with Cryptic, many small developer companys have cultural problems.
I am a IT manager. The major part of the small software companys I come across have this issue with some people that "dominates" the team.
Cryptic says that they have a fun enviroment to work, perhaps, but when they come to content decisions, I bet one person decide alone by his own ego.
But... we forgot about PWE... how many influence PWE have on Cryptic? Are they the ones that come with the big hammer and say: "No, that will not make money, you need to profit, do this!"
About history line:
I think we are about to know a lot of those things... every season something is revealed to us. The Iconians are tied to everything, from the Klingon War to the Borg/Undine, to the Tal Shiar/Elachi.
In that Preserver arch on Defera was alive Preservers, they are even older than the Voth or the Iconians... If Cryptic put this game in the right track, fixing it's bugs and put more writer to work, we could have one of the best Sci-Fi game in history.
"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Jean-Luc Picard
Go play mass effect and halo. This doesn't compete in terms of ground,
Metaphor time;
There are the drunks who stay at the bar until closing time sipping on our scotch while everyone else went home. They're also the drunks who show up at opening time to repeat the process while a new crowd comes through. And while they do nothing but drink scotch, they resent the bartender for focusing on serving the passing-through crowd their rum and cokes. In the end, it's not the bar's responsibly to change their business to scotch only just to make it easier for us to indulge in our habit because they make far more money from the partiers passing through each night. It is simply a logical choice. The needs of the many and all that.
But that doesn't stop the drunk from being resentful anyway because it's hard to accept when you're the one with the problem.
Besides... I've always wanted to fight a dinosaur.
Admit it. You want to fight a dinosaur while riding a dinosaur.
Exactly! Well said. We starve for steak but are spoon-fed baby food.
So what happens when the bar stops serving scotch altogether and will only give you rum and coke?
If this game continues on the track that it's on, then many players will make this 'adjustment'.
Where are those 'professionals' you are talking about?
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
They would need to hire more people to fix the bugs faster, as they already have a team working on finding and fixing bugs as fast a they can. And writers don't implement stories. They could hire 50 writers, but that doesn't get the stories into the game. For that you need artists, animators, programmers, etc. Now I supposed you want Cryptic to hire more people to do that too?
Now how are you going to pay for all those new bug fixers, writers, artists, animators, programmers, etc? Well, I guess that means you need more Lockboxes, more C-Store items, more Lobi Store items, etc - and more importantly you need players willing to buy stuff even faster then it's currently being produced and sold to us - not to mention you'll probably need to hire more new people just to make more stuff because of all the new people hired.
It's never as simple as simply saying: do what I want done.
Not important to Trek, but the Pandas have been around since "RTS series the Blizzard MMO is based on" 3
Just saying...
Stop talking like you are speaking for a majority. You aren't you are speaking for a group of the same people who continuously bombard the forums with TRIBBLE posts about what they think is right or wrong with the game. No one cares what other MMO games you played, a lot of people these days have played a load of MMO's too. My self included. It has no bearing here as the MMO industry is constantly fluctuating.
Also when these threads are made, its usually done in a similar fashion to yours, as if they have some expert knowledge that they are privy too, and they are doing the developers a favour by sharing it. Such as a Galaxy refit. The only people that want a Galaxy refit are hardcore Trek geeks, who can't let TNG go. Which again, isn't the majority of players as you keep trying to make out. Or crying about more KDF content, when there is no reason to play KDF other than to be a Klingon and do some different missions. I am sick of hearing about KDF on these forums like its some kind of Masons/Illuminati order, that all the cool kids are KDF. Back in the day, they used to be the main PVP force to be reckoned with yeah, and thats probably where a lot of the supposed 'Kudos' from being KDF originates. Now they aren't top dog at pvp, and are therefore the same as the other factions but less interesting. If anyone is going to make an alternative to Fed, it will be a Romulan/Reman. The KDF needs a major overhaul, i agree with that, but it wont advance the game it will only keep some people who are already KDF happy. Thats not good profit making for PW, whether its right or wrong.
Here is a heads up: You aren't a developer. As the game is doing very well at the moment i don't think you or anyone else can question the decisions made. And with a very interesting looking season 8 on its way, i doubt that will change anytime soon.
People always hate on the new announcements, raging about **** they haven't even seen. Why not wait until season 8 releases before going into a stereotypical whine about dinosaurs. FFS get over the dinosaurs. It is symbolic of nothing that they are in S8, except in people's minds. Big lizards. In a sci-fi game. That has far, far weirder species and their lackeys all over the galaxy. Wooptedoo. GET OVER IT.
I was agreeing with everything you said up till this point. That's going too far. Stop with the race baiting. :mad:
[/SIGPIC]
stop halt and fix and get stuff working before you get so far then realise that you cant do stuff cause there is to much work to do fixing other stuff to add good stuff in just to make it work.
This has been changed with Enterprise. The Orion Males are not in control, it is the Orion Slave Girls. By being offered as "slaves", they can influence influential beings in other governments to get what they want or get whatever information they want. The Undine are not the real threat, it is Orion females.
Insightful post, I agree with this assessment.
To me more accurate metaphor is a druggie.
The druggie has the option to stop, but he can't. And the Drug Dealer wants to keep that druggie high, because he would lose money if he doesn't.
STO is our drug, the Devs are the pushers, and we are the idiot druggies who got caught in the web. We either have the will to quit, moderate ourselves, or lose it all and get sucked in and become their puppets.
As others have said , +1 on your well thought out post .
As to Cryptic , I see 2 problems :
1) No serious long term planning .
(and thinking about the next "Season" is not long term planning)
2) Choosing 2 major updates per year (probably because it can be advertised better) , instead of a smaller update every 2-3 months .
And since this boils down to doing more for the game or more for their pockets -- it's the game (and it's players) that end up loosing .
Took his sweet time to play STO ...
I'll remind you of STO's temp manage's words , while going F2P right around when SWOTOR came out : "we are not planning to match them . Instead we will do our own thing."
Cryptic cannot match your friend's game , not TOR .
That does not mean that they cannot do better then what they are doing now (stumbling from one Adventure Zone to the next) .
I am replaying some of the LOR content right now and I am amazed at the visual polish , while at the same time saddened at the "warp in , kill 3 squads , move on" game play ... as it's the exact same thing we've been doing since day one in PVE , with the exception of the old STF's , which by their sheer complexity makes me think that they seem like they were made by a different company .
And I think people who have a problem with dinosaurs in Trek are overstating a valid case much as people who had a problem with pandas in that other game were overstating a valid case.
Nobody flipped out that the other game had Fur Bolgs or pandaren pets. They flipped out when an expansion hinged on it. It's not that pandas didn't belong. It's that they didn't belong AT THE CENTER. They belonged AT THE FRINGES.
Which is where we're at with dinosaurs.
Something that belongs in the background or at the fringes is being placed at the center and will occupy the center for an uncomfortably long time.
Both the pandas and the dinosaurs are the MMO equivalent of Rob Schneider movies. They have their fans. They belong to a beloved ensemble. And placing them front and center can only be the result of colossally insulated decision making.
It's not that I don't want Rob Schneider to make movies or that I wish anything awful on the guy or his career. I just don't want him as the headliner and I think people not wanting him as the headliner is a sane, utterly predictable response.
Did double take at first, but actually hearing Geko on Priority One, made me realise id judged it without evening thinking about it properly.
Geko is a decent dude, who loves trek as much as anyone, and I've enjoyed everything they have made so far (Yeah maybe not Terradome, been playing since Beta, I remember that *shakes fist*) So I'm sure I will enjoy this. Pennies well spent, if you don't like Dinosaurs, then don't play that Content.
well ic an say yes.. I do expect them to hire what is needed to keep up with the game..
the cryptics sto team, is laughably the smallest game development team out there, aside from some college kids in a dorm making something for fun..
cryptic being so much smaller is the exact reason that it does not make as much "content", and has twice as many bugs and broken down hardware issues than anyother game I have ever played..
trust me, cryptic is making money, just look at how many avengers hit the server in the first hour it was available.. they puroposely keep the staff small to make more money, but in the end, it will be their undoing.. as when you look at the number of people who poll, and your friends lists, and the amount of fleets that are closing their doors cause there isn't anyone logging in anymore. I myself have been seeing a major decline in active people..
I have a feeling that season 8 is gonna pretty much end it for another batch of people who have been on the fence.. half of my friends fleet has already stopped playing, largely in part to the new seasons anouncements.. and they will get an influx of 8 and 10 year olds who cant afford to buy anything..
so yes, I do expect them to do what they need to do to make this game better.. sometimes you have to spend money to make money..
True, but the funny thing is that Lockboxes are a literal gamble. You pay money in hopes to win (a lockbox ship). :rolleyes: