Advice on Fleet Support Cruiser build

captainspackle76 · October 2013

okay, so here's what I have so far:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=usssmokeyrobinson_0

you'll notice the Ensign tac is redundant, so I either need to replace his fire at will ability, or replace the universal station. I have two RCS consoles for turn rate, and two tetraburniums for an economical resistance against multiple damage types. between that any my tac consoles to buff my weapons, and my assimilated and nukara consoles in sci I have room for only one dedicated science console. not too happy with the shield emitter amp, so open to suggestions on that. also, is plasma the way to go, or would you recommend something else? antiproton is out of my price range at the mo.

I ask all this because I've been getting killed alot in conduit elite. ever since I got this ship I've gotten blown up at least once per conduit, versus probably half that with my old mirror patrol escort, which I would think would be the less survivable of the two.

I've got the Breen space set on it now, but I have AEGIS, Assimilated and Jem'Hadar sets in my bank too if any of those would be better. also working on MACO set. plan on getting a fleet warp core in there tomorrow.

thanks in advance!

dahminus · October 2013

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=bigtimeupgrade_0
3 technician doffs, must get three for this build
Marion is highly recommended but he is 25 mil ec
1 of your choice, I suggest a warp core

Bro, you build needs so much work. Emulate my build as best as you can. You will see monumentous improvements in survival and dps.

Keep full power to weapons, rest balanced to shields and auxillary

jetwtf · October 2013

Not an aux2bat and far far cheaper...

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=smokey1_4343

Try that. energy siphon +leech will keep weapon power up to power the 6 beams and make the enemies hit less. Mixing tac consoles hurts your damage. The torp can be swapped between the breen cluster or the slotted one, but I would do another beam. Beam overload will slaughter your weapons power so not a good choice for a beam cruiser.

jrwith · October 2013

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=drainbassador_5056

checkout my drainbassador, great for keeping my power up

only thing is I don't have Elite core that was the only option in the drop down menu

captainspackle76 · October 2013

dahminus wrote: »

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=bigtimeupgrade_0
3 technician doffs, must get three for this build

ah man, don't tell me that, I gotta keep my technicians free for building stuff. that's a big source of my EC income.

jetwtf wrote: »

Try that. energy siphon +leech will keep weapon power up to power the 6 beams and make the enemies hit less. Mixing tac consoles hurts your damage. The torp can be swapped between the breen cluster or the slotted one, but I would do another beam. Beam overload will slaughter your weapons power so not a good choice for a beam cruiser.

I actually don't have that guy in the lt tac for beam overload, I have him there for high yield torp II. I don't even have beam overload in my power tray.

I like being a leecher ship, but I also like swapping out other sets every so often too. like I say, I am working on getting the MACO space set together, and when that happens I'd like a build that can work well with that without having to completely overhaul the build from scratch.

in these builds I see alot of universal consoles in the engineering slots. is that the recommends place for those? I ask because I'm really quite happy with the turn rate I'm getting from the RCS consoles (to the point where I think I might be able to get away with all dual beam banks in the front), and ever since adding the tetraburniums I'm doing noticeably better against borg's antiproton damage, while also covering three additional beam types. so I worry that slotting my universals there will render me less maneuverable, while also exposing me to more hull damage. not that I'm not open to change. when my fleet gets a tier IV shipyard I'm planning on getting the fleet avenger, and I can save those RCS consoles for that where it might be put to better use.

stofsk · October 2013

captainspackle76 wrote: »

in these builds I see alot of universal consoles in the engineering slots. is that the recommends place for those?

Engineering consoles are rather lacklustre out of all of the console categories, which is why most universal consoles go either there or in science.

Since you're having difficulties surviving, I would recommending changing some of your boff abilities and maybe change out of a tac LT in the universal slot. In particular, boarding party 3 is a waste of a commander eng slot. I would swap it out completely, try and find Aux2SIF3 to put in there, and replace Aux2SIF1 with something else. Maybe put RSP down there, and put EPtS3 or ET3 in the LTC slot. Make the ensign engineer another EPtX ability.

Your science officer has tachyon beam 1, jam sensors 2 and polarise hull 3. Neither of these are particularly useful for survival. Polarise hull should be at the ensign slot if you're going to have it. Hazard emitters and transfer shield strength are great skills and can be shared with your team mates.

Your universal LT can give this ship some good flexibility. It depends on what you want to do with it. A tac can give you an attack pattern, plus another offensive ability. An eng can give you more heals, while a sci can give you that or some debuff possibilities (like someone's drain build). The Fleet Ambassador is a surprisingly good and versatile cruiser.

jetwtf · October 2013

captainspackle76 wrote: »

I actually don't have that guy in the lt tac for beam overload, I have him there for high yield torp II. I don't even have beam overload in my power tray.

I like being a leecher ship, but I also like swapping out other sets every so often too. like I say, I am working on getting the MACO space set together, and when that happens I'd like a build that can work well with that without having to completely overhaul the build from scratch.

in these builds I see alot of universal consoles in the engineering slots. is that the recommends place for those? I ask because I'm really quite happy with the turn rate I'm getting from the RCS consoles (to the point where I think I might be able to get away with all dual beam banks in the front), and ever since adding the tetraburniums I'm doing noticeably better against borg's antiproton damage, while also covering three additional beam types. so I worry that slotting my universals there will render me less maneuverable, while also exposing me to more hull damage. not that I'm not open to change. when my fleet gets a tier IV shipyard I'm planning on getting the fleet avenger, and I can save those RCS consoles for that where it might be put to better use.

Ok well good you dont have BO on a cruiser, thats and escort alpha strike tool and with a cruiser forget alpha strikes. also ignore the third ship suggestion as that needs serious help too.

Uni consoles and sci/engineering slots. fun things them. for any sci or engineer console you want no more than 2 of the same ones unless you are completely dedicating yourself to 1 role and only science needs do that really. the only time to have more than 2 of the same sci consoles is you are making a drain build and would have 4 flow caps consoles, for a CC build 4 graviton consoles, etc etc. there is a diminishing return for engi and sci consoles that tac consoles do not have. Sci needs every bit of skill they can get to be real good in most abilities and is why the diminishing return is ignored, 1%* on the 4rth console is often desired. engineering consoles same diminishing return but no need to bother stacking more than 2 as more will not make a huge differance in turn rate or resistance.

The only armor console that is worth it is the nuetronium consoles because they resist ALL energy types and kinetic. att vice admiral you want the fleet versions because they are better per mark than the same exchange version in resists but they also come with modifiers. 2 fleet nuetroniums with +turn is worth more than any other armor of the same mark/ql for resistance, covers all damage types and is equal to 1 RCS console. That saves 1 engi slot an RCS would be in for something else like a uni console.

As for turn rate and the ship, you are flying a cruiser not an escort. forget fore only weapons like DBB, DC, or DHC. different ship than an escort different build to make the most of it. Like I said i would drop the fore torp completely for another beam. with beams you do not need a whole lot of turn rate but you do need some to keep a 4-5k turn radius at full speed to maximize DPS on large single targets. plus that turn from the nuetroniums is enough to turn and escape the Donatra's thalaron weapon or any others of that nature.

So as you see in the build I did for you there is 2 sci consoles and 2 engi consoles and is balanced for a beam boat. 1 sci for universal and 2 engi and the only uni consoles you really want on that build unless you want to do something special or have the tachy lobi console and that i would put in science.

The build I did would have almost the same damage as the aux2bat build above mine but not cost an arm and a leg but ultimutly you would want to get Marion and use DEM3 or changeup to aux2bat the gear is nearly the same just 1 BOFF seat swapped to engi and some BOFF skill changes. Go for my build first and then the aux2bat in the first response and you will be kicking borg tail with 20k plus BFAW DPS.

Also Borg do not do antiproton damage, they use plasma like Rommies. STO made every weapons energy type fire a different color, AP is red.

My builds
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=lizette1_4343
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=muiri1_4343
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=muirine1_4343
WIP: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=strydr1_4343

*made up percentage but may as well be 1%. Science is well nerfed compared to everyone else.

dahminus · October 2013

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=cheaperstar_0
2 damage control doffs, 2 tact team doffs, and marion if you can afford him.

Your broadsiding everything, turn rate is irrelevant. Remember to keep spamming tt for better survival

captainspackle76 · October 2013

the problem I have with the "turn rate is irrelevant for a cruiser" concept is that it's too easy to find yourself just out of range and facing away from the next group of attackers. yeah, I can hit em from all sides, but if I'm not in the battle then I'm not hitting em from any side. I feel the ability for a cruiser to turn quickly and get back into the fight ASAP is underrated.

dahminus · October 2013

Evasive and "toilet drain" tactics not enough for you?

sevmrage · October 2013

Sometimes that stuff is on cooldown.

jetwtf · October 2013

turn is important because evasive could be on cooldown and you find yourself facing the wrong way or against a thalaron or elachi warmup. no extra turn on top of the impulse engines and theres a good chance you will be hit. Just the 2 fleet +turn nuetroniums is enough to avoid any of those if evasive is on cooldown. For a beam boat the hull and shield nuetroniums is not really required either. A good defense is just not getting hit and with Donatra and the idiots that get her to cloak allot evasive will be on cooldown and if you are hitting her hard enough she will target you.

Same thing with the D'deridex and a mission at new romulas with so many Elachi charging the weapon up and pointing right at you, no RCS or evasive on cooldown and you can die quite easy with 2+ of them at the same time. Atleast 1 RCS is all thats needed to be able to turn and get out of the cone before it fires.

Some turn is needed, but you do not need escort levels of turn. 1 RCS or 2 +turn fleet nuetroniums is enough to get out of those sticky situations and evasive + the 1 RCS or fleet +turn nuetroniums will allow you to get 5 to 6 kilometers off it's flank and firing on them by the time they fire. Evasive alone and you escpae the hit but are enroute to going offense.

But then again even with my 2 +turn fleet nuetronium consoles I can be late for the party still because i cant turn fast enough regardless of how much speed I am doing if evasive is on cooldown.

captainspackle76 · October 2013

jetwtf wrote: »

turn is important because evasive could be on cooldown and you find yourself facing the wrong way or against a thalaron or elachi warmup. no extra turn on top of the impulse engines and theres a good chance you will be hit. Just the 2 fleet +turn nuetroniums is enough to avoid any of those if evasive is on cooldown. For a beam boat the hull and shield nuetroniums is not really required either. A good defense is just not getting hit and with Donatra and the idiots that get her to cloak allot evasive will be on cooldown and if you are hitting her hard enough she will target you.

Same thing with the D'deridex and a mission at new romulas with so many Elachi charging the weapon up and pointing right at you, no RCS or evasive on cooldown and you can die quite easy with 2+ of them at the same time. Atleast 1 RCS is all thats needed to be able to turn and get out of the cone before it fires.

Some turn is needed, but you do not need escort levels of turn. 1 RCS or 2 +turn fleet nuetroniums is enough to get out of those sticky situations and evasive + the 1 RCS or fleet +turn nuetroniums will allow you to get 5 to 6 kilometers off it's flank and firing on them by the time they fire. Evasive alone and you escpae the hit but are enroute to going offense.

But then again even with my 2 +turn fleet nuetronium consoles I can be late for the party still because i cant turn fast enough regardless of how much speed I am doing if evasive is on cooldown.

okay, now I'm getting it, fleet nuetronium with turn is what I need. that's just what I'm looking for: killing the most possible birds with the fewest possible stones. I can't promise I won't stack an RCS on top of that though.

I went ahead and picked up a plasmonic leech today, and and quite happy with the results. and I promoted my breen syphon to the coveted 0 key on the numberpad for twitchy-quick use. I replaced the rapid fire torp in the front with a fourth plasma beam. you guys aren't gonna like this, but I went with the dual beam bank for that, given that the turn rate I currently have really does mean I'm not missing alot of opportunities to hit with it. I went and stuck the RR torp on the rear in place of the normal transphasic torp, but I'm thinking of replacing it with a third rear plasma array instead as someone here suggested. I figure that will get me a bit more bang for the buck on the plasmonic leech.

captainspackle76 · October 2013

okay, I just stuck a fleet +turn Neutronium (mk X cause that's all my fleet could supply at the mo) in place of my last remaining tetraburnium (the other having been replaced by the plasmonic leech), and that made all the difference in the conduit I just ran! I friggin coasted through that with little significant damage to my hull. and that with me doing my patented stupid maneuver of hitting Evasive Maneuvers and busting headlong through the channel between the cube and the gateway! that only cut me down to 80% hull, and I still had some remaining shields on all sides (though not much). that maneuver is usually guaranteed death for a cruiser.

so here's the current build of the USS Smokey Robinson:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=usssmokeyrobinson_5064

still have to figure out what to do with my ensign tac or if I should keep him there and just replace my universal station with an eng or sci. that all depends on if the difference between Fire At Will I and II is worth it. thoughts? and my purchase of a fleet warp core is put on hold for the moment, as I used the last available provision on that neutronium console.

jetwtf · October 2013

You still need to lose the Transphasic tac console and replace with another plasma infuser. Lost DPS by mixing tac consoles. And if someone says anything about diminishing returns on tac consoles you will know to just ignore advice from them. Sci and Engi consoles are the ones that suffer that.

As for the MK X fleet nuetronium and all other fleet consoles, Do not buy the low QL ones. thats a waste of a provision FC and Dilithium. Join the "NOP Public Service" channel and ask for an invite to get the better consoles. Type "/Join_channel NOP Public Service" into the chat to join. And once you get the channel and have 65k FC and 45k dilithium type "Can i get a fed T4 science Science invite please?" and buy the elite fleet resiliant shield RESB version. That will fix the shield problem you have and once you have that shield you can fly between the gate and tac cube while firing on spheres in ISE and have plenty of shield facing.

Also first thing to do next time you enter the game is fix the BOFF's to what dahminus has setup for you and buy 3 technician DOFF's purple if you can afford them, blue prefered if you cant but green will suffice until you can. Or get blue for now and do the Btran colony DOFF chain and get the 3 purple technicians for free on a crit from the repeateable assignment. If you dont want to roll an aux2bat build then BOFF layout like my suggestion after dahminus as it will provide plenty of power though you do lose the aux2bat technician doffs reducing skill cooldowns.

Get the Subspace field modulator device from the mission Skirmish, the one just before Spin the wheel. It's practicaly a must have for some ships. This adds damage resistance and defense. highly usefull device and you only need 1 turret to be honest because of the shared long cooldown. http://sto.gamepedia.com/Subspace_Field_Modulator

As for the DBB and RCS, you are treating the cruiser like an escort and you shouldnt, you will never have the same turn as an escort so every moment those DBB cannot fire is lost DPS. You want to treat it like a beam boat and go arrays with at most the breen cluster on fore and 3 arrays because the torps have a long cooldown between firing. I myself go 7 beams and the KCB and make ships melt.

*Edit,
Was going to say this but forgot. when you do a beam boat and have all beam arrays on aft and DBB, torp, or cannons alongside the 2-3 beam arrays fore the time you are spending keeping the forward only facing weapons on target the aft weapons are not doing anything. You lose DPS there as well. With a beam boat every shot counts more than a DHC/turret escort because they do less DPS each shot. No RCS and as many beam arrays you can handle then enter the battel hot as soon as you hit 10 kilometers from target and begin firing TURN and powerslide to a perfect broadside putting all weapons on target, then happily fly circles around it keeping all weapons on target all the time. fancy turn into and then away and you will get less DPS because weapons are not firing all the time.

comtedeloach2 · October 2013

captainspackle76 wrote: »

ah man, don't tell me that, I gotta keep my technicians free for building stuff. that's a big source of my EC income.

I actually don't have that guy in the lt tac for beam overload, I have him there for high yield torp II. I don't even have beam overload in my power tray.

I like being a leecher ship, but I also like swapping out other sets every so often too. like I say, I am working on getting the MACO space set together, and when that happens I'd like a build that can work well with that without having to completely overhaul the build from scratch.

in these builds I see alot of universal consoles in the engineering slots. is that the recommends place for those? I ask because I'm really quite happy with the turn rate I'm getting from the RCS consoles (to the point where I think I might be able to get away with all dual beam banks in the front), and ever since adding the tetraburniums I'm doing noticeably better against borg's antiproton damage, while also covering three additional beam types. so I worry that slotting my universals there will render me less maneuverable, while also exposing me to more hull damage. not that I'm not open to change. when my fleet gets a tier IV shipyard I'm planning on getting the fleet avenger, and I can save those RCS consoles for that where it might be put to better use.

Buy more technicians....

Advice on Fleet Support Cruiser build

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