Durable Offensive Beam Boat?

starswordc · October 2013

I've been gradually upgrading my build over the past few weeks with an eye towards being able to pull my weight better in ESTFs and not be melted in two seconds when PVPing with fleet members. This is what I have right now but it's still hardly overpowering.

What I want is a beam cruiser build that is durable but more geared toward offense than defense. I have access to advanced fleet weapons and elite fleet everything else, and have purchased a skill retrain token so I can get reorganize skill points I ill-advisedly invested in stuff like stealth. C-store and fleet ships are fine, but I'm not interested in lobi or lockbox ships since A) I don't have access to them without spending lots of money on keys, and

I'm an RP guy.

If you use abbreviations can you please explain them? Thx.

sevmrage · October 2013

Personally, I would suggest dropping a Torp and a Dual Beam Bank for two Beam Arrays.
Upgrade the weapons you do have to Advanced Fleet. I peronally like Tetryon, and if you want to stick with that, go for it.

Fire At Will and High Yield, those can work. Given the option, I would swap out High Yield for Spread, but that's just me. I'm not real big on Plasma Torps, but I'm sure you could make them work.
I would switch High Yield and Fire At Will, the higher the level of High Yield, the more torps will spit out.

As to Engineering skills, I would say toss Extend Shields and Aceton Beam, at least, but my knowledge of Engie skills is weak, someone else can fill that in.
Your second Engie Boff is okay. I use Directed Energy Modulation. There may be a better replacement, though.

Your First Sci Boff there, toss Jam Sensors. Maybe move Tractor Beam there and set a Shield buff there.

Science Team is okay there.

As to the rest of your consoles, I would consider swapping the Ambiplasma thing for another Tetryon console. Sci, someone else would have to help you with. Engineering... Personally, I would swap Plasma Distribution for something else, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment...

dahminus · October 2013

Question 1: are you interested in the Fleet assault cruiser? Or is this..."star cruiser" what you dig?

Question 2: What is the budget? Sky's the limit? Or cheaper the better...

Question 3: Just to clarify. You want a pve boat that does well in pvp or a pvp boat that does well in pve?

Question 4: And finally...how are you doing with reps? and do you require help choosing the "better" ones?

Cheers,

Dahm

starswordc · October 2013

sevmrage wrote: »

Personally, I would suggest dropping a Torp and a Dual Beam Bank for two Beam Arrays.
Upgrade the weapons you do have to Advanced Fleet. I peronally like Tetryon, and if you want to stick with that, go for it.

Pretty much what I had in mind. Planned on going 3x single beams on the forward battery, which'll give me a broadside of six regular beams and the cutting beam. I also wanted to switch the rare torp to an Omega torp to complete the set with the cutter and assimilated module. As far as damage type, I couldn't decide between tet or antiproton.

sevmrage · October 2013

I see. If you don't want to go the way of fleet weapons, Tetryon is your cheapest choice in getting high level weapons, And personally, I would suggest going as high as you can.

nicha0 · October 2013

It would be harder to pick a worse ship for mostly offensive cruiser, even over a year ago it was advised not to be in one, its a tank/healer, trying to make it do something it just can't is a waste of time.

You are going to need a better ship, lots of ways to get them without spending money, I wouldn't bother setting up a build as it stands now

starswordc · October 2013

sevmrage wrote: »

I see. If you don't want to go the way of fleet weapons, Tetryon is your cheapest choice in getting high level weapons, And personally, I would suggest going as high as you can.

No, I just forgot to say "fleet" in my response.

dahminus wrote: »

Question 1: are you interested in the Fleet assault cruiser? Or is this..."star cruiser" what you dig?

I'm open to suggestions. I picked the star cruiser as a my freebie T5 ship mostly because it kept the boff lineup I was used to from when I was leveling.

Question 2: What is the budget? Sky's the limit? Or cheaper the better...

I've got 279 zen right now and I can get more. I was eyeing the Odyssey Tac and Odyssey Ops.

Question 3: Just to clarify. You want a pve boat that does well in pvp or a pvp boat that does well in pve?

PVE that's decent in PVP.

Question 4: And finally...how are you doing with reps? and do you require help choosing the "better" ones?

I'm at T0 New Romulus, T1 Nukara, T2 Omega, and I've been focusing on Omega.

reginamala78 · October 2013

Eh there's plenty of options with a standard Star Cruiser, enough firepower to handle ESTFs just fine and enough tanking and healing to take first in CEE even against Scimitars. A 10th console is a nice extra to have, but even just 9 can rock most of the game. Plus there's a certain satisfaction in taking a ship that so many have written off as 'Inferior!' and holding your own in it.

6 Beam Arrays, KCB, Omega Torp
Borg Deflector/Engine/Shield Set

Cmdr Eng
EPTW1, EPTS2, Extends2, Aux2SIF3
LtCmdr Eng
ET1, RSP1, EWP1
Lt Tac
TT1, APB1 or FAW2
Lt Sci
HE1, TSS2
Ens Sci
PH1

Eng Consoles
Plasmonic Leech, Assimilated Module, Fleet RCS, Fleet Neutronium
Sci Consoles
Zero-Point, Embassy Emitter Array (+Th), Field Generator
Tac Consoles
2 Energy-Specific

DOFFs, toss in 3 Damage Control Officers, if you can afford Marion then you swap the EWP for DEM2, and still a spot left for a warp core engineer or RSP doff or whatever.

sevmrage · October 2013

I with Regina on the underdog ships. My Galaxy Dreadnought it's exactly popular, and I run it with pride.

rodentmaster · October 2013

In my opinion, cruisers that ONLY have 2 tac boff skills (i.e. a single LT tac boff, with slots for 2 skills only) really hurt your offensive setup. Don't get me wrong I love all the sci and eng slots, but sometimes you just need tac skills to help out.

In my opinion, mind you, I would strongly suggest a cruiser that has at least 3 TAC boff skills. If that means 1 LT and 1 ENS, or just a single LtCDR that's fine.

If you want a VERY cheap ship that's really good, look into the Mirror Universe Assault Cruiser. It will LOOK visually like a Star Cruiser, but has the boff setup of the Assault Cruiser, which is 1 ENS and 1 LT as tac, 1 CMDR and 1 LtCDR as eng, and a single LT as sci.

It's super cheap on the exchange, as well. Probably less than 200k ECs. It will let you know if you like the setup. I think you may.

As for ship suggestions that aren't mirror universe, I have one of the Oddys and it's really not worth the price. Nice ship and all but not worth the tag. The special consoles are mostly junk, so you'll probably end up running it with normal consoles. With that in mind, IF you must get an oddy (the universal boffs are rather enticing) look at the console layout and the minor stats like that to determine which you want. Don't get the pack. It's not worth it, honestly.

Fleet level/zen store ships that are interesting and allow you to set up more TAC skill boffs if you like (they have universal slots):

Fleet Assault Cruiser (4 modules)
Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit (4 modules)
Assault Cruiser Refit (z2500)
Oddessy Star Cruiser (fleet credits 200,000)
Fleet Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (5 modules)

Those are just the suggestions I would make that allow some tankiness but still devote more than 2 skills to TAC -- so you can deal out some damage.

P.S. Also see here:
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Federation_playable_starship

For a handy vertical table to compare variants. Note things like the Heavy Cruiser have setups that can allow more TAC slots but the hull is significantly weaker, so I did not recommend them when better options are available.

dahminus · October 2013

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=pvepvpoddessy_0
3 purple technicians, 1 marion, 1 warp core engineer( i think it's a warp core that gives a chance to remove rebuffs from you when activating eptX)

Single aux2bat build. Use marion to spread your weapon power effectively instead of full power to weapons

My philosophy is to be awesome at one thing, instead of decent at multiples...

If you'd like to see a pve focused build. Gimme a shout

rck01 · October 2013

Here's a template for an Aux2Batt cruiser that will let you dominate in both PvE and PvP against all but the very best opponents:

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=rcktacfahcrevt_0

Nothing Lobi-based...all assembled via grinding/farming...lots of it! lol!

RCK

yreodred · October 2013

starswordc wrote: »

I've been gradually upgrading my build over the past few weeks with an eye towards being able to pull my weight better in ESTFs and not be melted in two seconds when PVPing with fleet members. This is what I have right now but it's still hardly overpowering.

What I want is a beam cruiser build that is durable but more geared toward offense than defense. I have access to advanced fleet weapons and elite fleet everything else, and have purchased a skill retrain token so I can get reorganize skill points I ill-advisedly invested in stuff like stealth. C-store and fleet ships are fine, but I'm not interested in lobi or lockbox ships since A) I don't have access to them without spending lots of money on keys, and I'm an RP guy.

If you use abbreviations can you please explain them? Thx.

I haven't read much of the following comments, but i would sugget to get a Mirror Assault Cruiser. It's same looks as your ship but Bridge Officer Layout as the Assault Crusier, handy isn't it?

I can't tell anything about PvP really, but in my experience with this build you can get through EVERY ESTF and rule.

Here's what i would do:

Weapons fore: Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher; Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array; 2x Romulan Beam Array MK XII
Weapons aft: Kinetic Cutting Beam, 3x Romulan Beam Array MK XII (normal Plasma Beam Arrays will be ok too.)

Deflector: Omega Force Tachyon Deflector Array
Impulse: Adapted M.A.C.O. Impulse Engines
Warp: some nice fleet mine Warp Core
Shield: Adapted M.A.C.O. Covariant Shield Array

BOFF Stations:
Tactical Lt.: Tactical Team 1; Fire at Will 2
Tactical Ensign: Torpedo Spread 1
Engineering Cmdr.: Emergency Power to Shields 1; Aux to Battery 1; Eject Warp Plasma, Aux to Structural 3
Engineering Lt. Cmdr.: Emergency Power to Weapons 1; Aux to Battery 1; Reverse Shiled Polarity
Science Lt.: Transfer Shield Strength 1; Hazard Emitters 2

Consoles:
Engineering: some nice Fleet Mine engineering console, Nukara Particle Converter; Zero-Point Energy Conduit; Assimilated Module
Science: 2x Threat-Scaling Science Consoles - Plasma Infused [Pla] Emitter Array
Tactical: 3x Plasma Infuser (as high as possible)

What set bonuses do you get?
Romulan Singularity Harness, Omega Adapted Borg Technology Set (Omega Weapon Amplifier), Tactical Readiness (MACO)

DOFFs
3x Technican (Recharge time on bridge officer abilities reduced)
Warp Core engineer (Chance of temporarily improving your ship power on use of any Emergency Power ability)
Damage Control Engineer (Chance to add a hull heal-over-time effect to Auxiliary Power to Structural Integrity Field)
Or Systems Engineer* (Reduces Weapon subsystem energy drain while using Directed Energy Modulation)

*only use this one if you decide to use Directed Energy Modulation instead of Aux to Structural III

I hope you don't mind grinding Romulan, Nukara and Omega/MACO reputation stuff.

Personally i have a (single player) fleet on my own and i am working on unlocking the dilithium mine consoles and warp cores, so i can't give you any good advice what to use.

Tactics:
Basicly cycle Emergency power to shields, Emergency power to weapons, and both Aux to battery all the time. This reduces the cooldown of ALL bridge officer abilities to their absolute minimum. This means you have basicly double of everything, but things that need Auxillery power are almost worthless....
Which leads us to Aux to Structural:
This is your fortress mode, use it to turn you ship into a undefeatable force, but limiting your offensive. Cycle Aux to structural together with emergency power to shields and weapons. Your high auxilliery power will make your hazard emitters and Aux to Structural heal you in no time. Then you can switch back to your "assault" mode and start cycling AtB plus your emergency powers.

(Tip: don't forget to continously distribute your shileds ALL THE TIME)

When fighting an group of enemies, use Eject warp plasma as often as possible (best to use with evasive maneuvers) and lock your enemies into a plasma field, then rake them with boardsides (Fire at Will and Plasma Hyperflux every 2 minutes), and a plasma torpedo spread from time to time.

The plasma burn alone will make your enemies melt in seconds.
You don't even need to kill their shields most of the time.

I hope i haven't forgot anything.

tinkerstorm · October 2013

starswordc wrote: »

What I want is a beam cruiser build that is durable but more geared toward offense than defense.

Sorry, but the Star Cruiser is one of the worst possible choices for that. Put yourself in an Assault, Tactical Odyssey, Assault Refit, or Fleet Assault.

starswordc · October 2013

tinkerstorm wrote: »

Sorry, but the Star Cruiser is one of the worst possible choices for that. Put yourself in an Assault, Tactical Odyssey, Assault Refit, or Fleet Assault.

I'd already planned on trading in the Star Cruiser.

malaksilver · October 2013

might be an idea to go after some of the new lock boxes as they have some helpfull gear in them also as stated by another user geting rep up to max and going for the sheild and hull repair bonus works too

adamkafei · October 2013

As you have stated you plan on trading in the Star cruiser I built a budget DPS build on the assault cruiser platform.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=160698

You might want to look into this thread if you do use it as it will make it's operation far easier.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=160698

Have fun

whamhammer1 · October 2013

It also depends on what focus of beams you want to use. DBB are good for a frontal only assault, but need turrets and KCB to help them out but everything but a well built Advanced Heavy Cruiser (Excel') or Assault Cruiser (Sovy, Regent) can be made to turn well enough to use them, either that or a Gal-R after seperating the saucer, but that isnt very tactical focused.

Probably an all beam array ship with a torp would work best.

starswordc · October 2013

Take Two:

Okay, so now I'm running a Fleet Avenger. This is a partial of what I'm looking at based on some advice from my fleet and from here.

Note that I'm using a Fleet Assault Cruiser as a placeholder on the skill planner because they don't have the battle cruiser or its console yet (right now the empty tac slot is where I have the VATA console, but that can change). The only difference between the two layouts is that the exact arrangement of the boffs is slightly different (the Lt Eng is where the Lt Sci is on the chart and vice versa) and that there's one fewer device slot on the Avenger.

Boff notes:
-- The Lt Sci is a purple human.

-- I'm using torp high yield on the Ens Tac instead of BFAW1 because, having playtested a couple prototypes of the boff arrangement, using two copies of BFAW really doesn't add much of practical use in PVE. Without Tactical Initiative active, after firing BFAW2, all I get is being able to activate BFAW1 twenty seconds after BFAW2, at the cost of locking out the stronger version for an extra ten seconds. With Tactical Initiative active, BFAW1 is completely superfluous.

Advice on where to reskill and what to put in empty console slots (can't afford a Plasmonic Leech right now, unfortunately) would be appreciated.

dahminus · October 2013

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12804321&postcount=1

If you can't use the leech, get maco shields.

You can use the aux2bat build for beams by simply changing csv1 to bfaw2.

Any questions?

And I do hope they add the avenger soon

unboundinferno · October 2013

Well, any list of Cruisers could fill out your goal - however the Star Cruiser will not be one of them.

You need either a Cruiser with 3+ Tactical Consoles, or the Science Odyssey.

Its an odd occurrence I have found, but have not minded in my currently more single-target focused plan on how the Sensor Analysis on the Sci Oddy can stack up to 33.3% resistance debuff, which more than makes up for the loss of the 3rd Tac Console on that ship - however for most opponents they don't last long enough to make it noticeable. Does well on most bosses, the exception being Dontra's cheating cloaking Scimitar - but it has been able to push ~12k dps on a non-Aux2Bat build that way. Tears up Gates on Khit just fine for an example.

My current Sci Oddy if anyone wants to know; http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=unboundinferno_4637
I will say this though - the Elite Fleet Restorative weapons are a waste if damage is your goal. You'll get slightly better output off Adv Fleet instead, and cheaper too.

The ships you want would be this list IMO;
Avenger Battle Cruiser (that new ugly thing)
Assault Cruiser (Sovereign)
Fleet Support Cruiser Retrofit (Ambassador)
Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Excelsior)
Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit (Stargazer)
C-Store Tac Oddy for FAW builds, Sci Oddy for more single-target plans

The Avenger wins over the lot of them for the DHC/Turret build it can abuse, but it could potentially also runs Beams far more aggressive and stronger than the others. The other Cruisers (Fleet variants for most of them) are pretty decent, but somewhat picky on the plans to make them work. The Oddy is more flexible, with the noted Sci Oddy able to adjust a bit more single-target plan more effectively than the Tac, but the Tac handles better for FAW use like the rest.

However, if damage is your goal on the Cruisers, the Plasmonic Leech is just about a mandated requirement to push it with the Zero-Point and Assimilated, and maybe Nuk console. The help those add is immense, and shouldn't be dismissed if you can avoid it.

capnshadow27 · October 2013

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=outridertank_0

A build i have been playing with for my eng when it hits 50. Not all beams, not super offensive but should be pretty damn durable looking.

rmxiii · October 2013

This is what I fly

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=rhvaurek_3674

somewhat durable, but can dish out a bit of damage.

baudl · October 2013

capnshadow27 wrote: »

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=outridertank_0

A build i have been playing with for my eng when it hits 50. Not all beams, not super offensive but should be pretty damn durable looking.

you would be surprised how fast this baby would go down...no tac team, no rsp.
the 4th armor console will probably only grant you 5% resistance because of diminishing returns on armor consoles.
fleet resiliant shield > fleet coveriant, especially if you don't have any sci consoles to increase your max shieldpoints.
the 2 torp launchers and the single DBB will do you no good dmg wise, you are better off with tac team1; AP:delta or beta
maybe keep the 180 degree launcher up front, but a glaxy class unfortunately has not the boff seating to support multiple weapons...the assault cruiser refit does however, which you apparently own if you have the torp.
also 2x aux2sif is a waste, because the cooldown of that ability is already the lowest in the game...get a second EPtS2 instead and switch the existing EPtS1 into a EPtW1...running 4 EPtX abilitiys should allow you without any doffs to keep them up and running the whole time. 100% uptime of both.
The aceton beam 3 is also kind of "meh, not worth it"...go with RSP2 and extend shields3 instead. RSP is really something you shouldn't miss in any cruiser build.

and you lack some crucual reputaion consoles, like the assimilated and the zero point (probably because you overstacked armor consoles)

if you have the feeling that this ship lacks soooo much in turnrate that you think it needs 4xfleet mine armor consoles with turn on it, then maybe a 6 degree turning cruiser isn't a good choice to start with.

age03 · October 2013

I was once told torpedos is what work in Elites and I would add mines quantum don't go with just beams only.

To the OP get the Oddy Pack.

matchstick606 · October 2013

If you still want to run torps on your ship I would try out transphasic, they won't do as much damage as other torps when the targets shields are down, but they have a nice 40% shield pen and with them being so cheap on the market right now its something to look into.

for some reason even a target with 1hp in shields still gets a torp damage resist that if i remember right cuts it by 75% so going with transphasic is always a good way to get damage in no matter what.

I had some help with this one but if you like the ambassador you could try this
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12921041&postcount=13

sonnikku · October 2013

This entire discussion highlights how mistaken I was about romulans being overpowered. You don't even worry about defense on your tactical scimitar beam boat, you just go all in on offense and slap on a Valdore console. The more damage you dish out, the more healing you get. Did cryptic ever bother to think this might be counterinuitive to the game? :P

Durable Offensive Beam Boat?

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