Personally i think science is more like an advanced class. It is not as easy to use as tactical or engineer, but when played correctly it is a force to be reckoned with.
In PVP science is the cornerstone to taking down heavily defensive players. Science vessels are often targeted first for this very reason. With a SNB or Viral you can really mess up opponents.
In PVE you can focus all your energy in Aux and lay waste using tricobalt or transphasic.
It's not as flashy as tac or engineer, but in my intrepid i can level a transformer in 1 run.
All right that is providing i crit, but there is a huge damage potential with science.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Im just starting out with a newly leveled Sci Toon, and want to use the intrepid. Any info you can post on your intrepid build would be much appreciated!
This topic has a lot of info/builds for the Intrepid in it.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Problem is there is no science related anything in the game. That's what always was missing from the game. Star Trek was science not just killing stuff. So yeah science in this game is a waste. In this game you are basically the healer/buffer nothing more. No real science stuff to do here. If there was i would be all over it. Even Eve online give's you more science stuff to do.
Everything you think you do well in a Sci Vessel with Science BOFF abilities, is done absolutely better with Tactical and Escorts. Escorts will blaze through stuff faster before your first Grav Well's effects are over, and you're trying still to kill those first 2 piddly NPCs, while in an Escort, you're moving on to bigger, better things. Hell, TAC Cruisers will do superbly better than Science Vessels.
The debuffs are weak and all are very easily resisted with minimal effort, the damage done by the Science abilities that specifically are designed for damage was nerfed hard a few months after STO went live (Grav Well for instance). Viral Matrix was nerfed in that same timeframe where it will NEVER affect shield subsystem no matter how much and how long you try. Hell, in PVE, the NPCs don't care at all with most of the debuffs you try.
And saying nothing is wrong with Science if you're a Science Captain on an Escort is preposterous, because the TAC skills are what's doing the REAL work.
This game is purely DPS oriented. You either do big damage or play the jockstrap to those who do, and receive no credit, no better placement in rankings if you do.
Edit to add: If you can get over the pretty visual effects and magical sparkles and fairies of Sci abilities, and look at how much you're doing (or really, how little you're doing) and how quickly, you will realize you're wasting your time compared to what you should be doing in an Escort or TAC Cruiser.
Subnuc? Sure, great. Strip the buffs off the target, hit Sensor scan. Someone else does the great damage and you receive jack s**t in credit and placement in the rankings, but that DPS guy looks far better than you still.
The numbers won't lie in this game, and that's the big damage values. If you like being the jockstrap and get no credit, no recognition, no better rankings, then Science is for you.
You are better off taking your Science Captain and stuffing him on an Escort / Destroyer / TAC Cruiser, so that your TAC abilities will soar and you actually get the big damage numbers, get credit.
Well lets be serious for a moment, energy weapons do more constant damage than anything else, that is true. There are other ways to do damage (torps, sci, eject warp plasma, whatever) but they cannot compete on the constant sustained damage output. The sci skill tree has a lot of damage abilities and some of them can kill things pretty quickly, but even those have long cooldown timers imposed on them, during which time you have to use energy weapons. So yeah its a matter of emperical observation, the best loadout for a sci ship is a bunch of energy weapons firing on a target that you are holding down with a sci ability, and ignore the rest of them. Same thing works in a lot of escorts and cruisers, better actually because they have more energy weapon hard-points.
Sci sihps have not kept up with the power creep, that is the biggest problem with sci profession.
edit--The exceptions prove the rule: vesta, and wells to a lesser extent
Hmm, why have I come third in the Crystalline Entity Elite event three times already in the last week on my Science main in his Science ship if they are so poor?
I have taken first in my sci ships. Trust me, that doesnt mean anything.
I agree that people should play the game however they find it enjoyable. I have three sci captains and enjoy them all and their unique styles. Sci is much richer and deeper than the other professions, with all the things like holds, disables, stuns, etc., and figuring out what makes them work in 1v1 and group fights, its much more interesting gameplay than point the escort at the target and pull the trigger.
But its a lie to say they are competitive. They compete with low-end beam cruisers, that's all.
Well lets be serious for a moment, energy weapons do more constant damage than anything else, that is true. There are other ways to do damage (torps, sci, eject warp plasma, whatever) but they cannot compete on the constant sustained damage output. The sci skill tree has a lot of damage abilities and some of them can kill things pretty quickly, but even those have long cooldown timers imposed on them, during which time you have to use energy weapons. So yeah its a matter of emperical observation, the best loadout for a sci ship is a bunch of energy weapons firing on a target that you are holding down with a sci ability, and ignore the rest of them. Same thing works in a lot of escorts and cruisers, better actually because they have more energy weapon hard-points.
Sci sihps have not kept up with the power creep, that is the biggest problem with sci profession.
edit--The exceptions prove the rule: vesta, and wells to a lesser extent
Another possible exception is the D'kyr. It can deal a bit more damage than some of its counterparts and is easily the toughest Science vessel out there.
As for Science Ships being utterly worthless eeeh... Not sure I 100% agree but there is one big problem: Carriers...
Why?
Because Carriers can do all the things Science ships can do but bring a LOT more damage to the party. A properly designed Carrier can make Escort's damage look pathetic and survive far more damage than most Cruisers while still having holds/energy drains/etc from Science. They are the super Science Ship and the only thing normal Science ships can boast over them is a better turn rate which hardly makes a difference.
So yes, as you point out aptly: Science ships have not scaled up with the huge power creep in the game very well. They basically have lost a real "Place" in the lineup because Carriers do everything they do but do it better.
basically carriers are the better science ships nowadays...sad truth.
though i have to say that science heavy escorts/destroyers are my prefered ships, and the only actual science ship i'd consider flying is one of the vestas...the tac one.
Another possible exception is the D'kyr. It can deal a bit more damage than some of its counterparts and is easily the toughest Science vessel out there.
As for Science Ships being utterly worthless eeeh... Not sure I 100% agree but there is one big problem: Carriers...
Why?
Because Carriers can do all the things Science ships can do but bring a LOT more damage to the party. A properly designed Carrier can make Escort's damage look pathetic and survive far more damage than most Cruisers while still having holds/energy drains/etc from Science. They are the super Science Ship and the only thing normal Science ships can boast over them is a better turn rate which hardly makes a difference.
So yes, as you point out aptly: Science ships have not scaled up with the huge power creep in the game very well. They basically have lost a real "Place" in the lineup because Carriers do everything they do but do it better.
I must treat you for some tea what kind friend :cool:
Another possible exception is the D'kyr. It can deal a bit more damage than some of its counterparts and is easily the toughest Science vessel out there.
As for Science Ships being utterly worthless eeeh... Not sure I 100% agree but there is one big problem: Carriers...
Why?
Because Carriers can do all the things Science ships can do but bring a LOT more damage to the party. A properly designed Carrier can make Escort's damage look pathetic and survive far more damage than most Cruisers while still having holds/energy drains/etc from Science. They are the super Science Ship and the only thing normal Science ships can boast over them is a better turn rate which hardly makes a difference.
So yes, as you point out aptly: Science ships have not scaled up with the huge power creep in the game very well. They basically have lost a real "Place" in the lineup because Carriers do everything they do but do it better.
the why do my sci ships always outperform my carriers and to those DPS jocks try beating a sci ship in CE i bet you will not most of the time if ya have some crazy build you might
Hmm, why have I come third in the Crystalline Entity Elite event three times already in the last week on my Science main in his Science ship if they are so poor?
Again, it is all about having fun. I do.
End of.
I've placed 1st numerous times in my Fleet Veranus. But the CE is the only place where Science abilities actually get free roam. Why? Because at no point in time do the CE and its shards have shields. Everything almost everything else in this game has shields. Grav Well will fix them and Photonic Shockwave will actually be useful, but the damage they do is negligible due to the shield facings being up in all other places in the game, PVE or PVP.
Put your Sci Captain on a Escort / Destroyer / TAC Cruiser, and see how much better you can do. Your Subnuc and Sensor Scan, combined with Attack Pattern X and assorted TAC abilities from the ship will do ungodly wonders. Far more than believing your Grav Well and such is actually doing worthwhile damage.
Another possible exception is the D'kyr. It can deal a bit more damage than some of its counterparts and is easily the toughest Science vessel out there.
As for Science Ships being utterly worthless eeeh... Not sure I 100% agree but there is one big problem: Carriers...
Why?
Because Carriers can do all the things Science ships can do but bring a LOT more damage to the party. A properly designed Carrier can make Escort's damage look pathetic and survive far more damage than most Cruisers while still having holds/energy drains/etc from Science. They are the super Science Ship and the only thing normal Science ships can boast over them is a better turn rate which hardly makes a difference.
So yes, as you point out aptly: Science ships have not scaled up with the huge power creep in the game very well. They basically have lost a real "Place" in the lineup because Carriers do everything they do but do it better.
Heh, as a primarily KDF player, I still remember the early days of STO when Fed Intrepids were among the most dreaded things to face in PVP.
I appreciate the insight from everyone. Looks like ill roll science on my KDF toon when i get there. I plan on using him for mainly pvp. we shall see how it goes!
I also didnt mean to start a meat grinder. The community in sto up untill this point has semmingly been pretty tame compared to the flame fests I have found else where. I hope that remains true. I look forward to growing in the game.
the why do my sci ships always outperform my carriers and to those DPS jocks try beating a sci ship in CE i bet you will not most of the time if ya have some crazy build you might
It may be a matter of how you set up your Carriers. If you set them up with the proper damage dealing Abilities, get Elite Scorpion Fighters, and run the Plasma Synergy game you will out perform your normal Science Vessels easily (aside from perhaps the Vesta which is not so pure a Science Vessel but more of a little bit of everything).
I mean the numbers are impossible to argue with. Any normal Science ship has 6 weapon slots. A carrier generally also has those 6 weapon slots + they can have up to 12 Elite Scorpions all dishing out tons of plasma cannon fire and plasma torpedoes including High Yields. Which is going to do more damage?
Heh, as a primarily KDF player, I still remember the early days of STO when Fed Intrepids were among the most dreaded things to face in PVP.
Aaah the Good ol' Days... I remember flying a tricked-out D'kyr which was a bruiser energy drainer + warp plasma user and NO ONE no matter what they ran could come CLOSE to beating me in a duel. I could shut down anyone and just leave them waiting for me to kill them. Those were the days...
Comments
In PVP science is the cornerstone to taking down heavily defensive players. Science vessels are often targeted first for this very reason. With a SNB or Viral you can really mess up opponents.
In PVE you can focus all your energy in Aux and lay waste using tricobalt or transphasic.
It's not as flashy as tac or engineer, but in my intrepid i can level a transformer in 1 run.
All right that is providing i crit, but there is a huge damage potential with science.
The debuffs are weak and all are very easily resisted with minimal effort, the damage done by the Science abilities that specifically are designed for damage was nerfed hard a few months after STO went live (Grav Well for instance). Viral Matrix was nerfed in that same timeframe where it will NEVER affect shield subsystem no matter how much and how long you try. Hell, in PVE, the NPCs don't care at all with most of the debuffs you try.
And saying nothing is wrong with Science if you're a Science Captain on an Escort is preposterous, because the TAC skills are what's doing the REAL work.
This game is purely DPS oriented. You either do big damage or play the jockstrap to those who do, and receive no credit, no better placement in rankings if you do.
Edit to add: If you can get over the pretty visual effects and magical sparkles and fairies of Sci abilities, and look at how much you're doing (or really, how little you're doing) and how quickly, you will realize you're wasting your time compared to what you should be doing in an Escort or TAC Cruiser.
Subnuc? Sure, great. Strip the buffs off the target, hit Sensor scan. Someone else does the great damage and you receive jack s**t in credit and placement in the rankings, but that DPS guy looks far better than you still.
The numbers won't lie in this game, and that's the big damage values. If you like being the jockstrap and get no credit, no recognition, no better rankings, then Science is for you.
You are better off taking your Science Captain and stuffing him on an Escort / Destroyer / TAC Cruiser, so that your TAC abilities will soar and you actually get the big damage numbers, get credit.
Sci sihps have not kept up with the power creep, that is the biggest problem with sci profession.
edit--The exceptions prove the rule: vesta, and wells to a lesser extent
Again, it is all about having fun. I do.
End of.
Builds:
http://tinyurl.com/kqqg8f5
http://tinyurl.com/n3ewgcw
I agree that people should play the game however they find it enjoyable. I have three sci captains and enjoy them all and their unique styles. Sci is much richer and deeper than the other professions, with all the things like holds, disables, stuns, etc., and figuring out what makes them work in 1v1 and group fights, its much more interesting gameplay than point the escort at the target and pull the trigger.
But its a lie to say they are competitive. They compete with low-end beam cruisers, that's all.
Another possible exception is the D'kyr. It can deal a bit more damage than some of its counterparts and is easily the toughest Science vessel out there.
As for Science Ships being utterly worthless eeeh... Not sure I 100% agree but there is one big problem: Carriers...
Why?
Because Carriers can do all the things Science ships can do but bring a LOT more damage to the party. A properly designed Carrier can make Escort's damage look pathetic and survive far more damage than most Cruisers while still having holds/energy drains/etc from Science. They are the super Science Ship and the only thing normal Science ships can boast over them is a better turn rate which hardly makes a difference.
So yes, as you point out aptly: Science ships have not scaled up with the huge power creep in the game very well. They basically have lost a real "Place" in the lineup because Carriers do everything they do but do it better.
though i have to say that science heavy escorts/destroyers are my prefered ships, and the only actual science ship i'd consider flying is one of the vestas...the tac one.
This is true nice comment man more Kudos to you I treat you to coffe and tea
I must treat you for some tea
the why do my sci ships always outperform my carriers and to those DPS jocks try beating a sci ship in CE i bet you will not most of the time if ya have some crazy build you might
I've placed 1st numerous times in my Fleet Veranus. But the CE is the only place where Science abilities actually get free roam. Why? Because at no point in time do the CE and its shards have shields. Everything almost everything else in this game has shields. Grav Well will fix them and Photonic Shockwave will actually be useful, but the damage they do is negligible due to the shield facings being up in all other places in the game, PVE or PVP.
Put your Sci Captain on a Escort / Destroyer / TAC Cruiser, and see how much better you can do. Your Subnuc and Sensor Scan, combined with Attack Pattern X and assorted TAC abilities from the ship will do ungodly wonders. Far more than believing your Grav Well and such is actually doing worthwhile damage.
Heh, as a primarily KDF player, I still remember the early days of STO when Fed Intrepids were among the most dreaded things to face in PVP.
I also didnt mean to start a meat grinder. The community in sto up untill this point has semmingly been pretty tame compared to the flame fests I have found else where. I hope that remains true. I look forward to growing in the game.
NEXT STEP? I need to find a fleet.
It may be a matter of how you set up your Carriers. If you set them up with the proper damage dealing Abilities, get Elite Scorpion Fighters, and run the Plasma Synergy game you will out perform your normal Science Vessels easily (aside from perhaps the Vesta which is not so pure a Science Vessel but more of a little bit of everything).
I mean the numbers are impossible to argue with. Any normal Science ship has 6 weapon slots. A carrier generally also has those 6 weapon slots + they can have up to 12 Elite Scorpions all dishing out tons of plasma cannon fire and plasma torpedoes including High Yields. Which is going to do more damage?
Aaah the Good ol' Days... I remember flying a tricked-out D'kyr which was a bruiser energy drainer + warp plasma user and NO ONE no matter what they ran could come CLOSE to beating me in a duel. I could shut down anyone and just leave them waiting for me to kill them. Those were the days...