Believe me, the entire character team wants that too
We are constantly trying to improve when we can amidst creating new assets and content. And obviously I wish it were that easy.
For a little insight: skirts/dresses carry a unique set of difficulties. The longer the skirt, the harder to make work properly. Trying to make them soft & flowing (or appear that way) and at the same time, not clip with the solid legs underneath.
Also consider that the legs are essentially two separate entities that freely animate, while a skirt or dress is usually one entity that must wrap around and stretch.
So ultimately it's trying to get two completely different systems to work together.
Anyway, I hope that satisfies some curiosity with a very high level description of the process.
That said...the shots you supplied and info on specific skirts will be helpful in continuing to improve all the parts.
That could be the best answer a male a made for making skirts shorter
The purpose of this post is to illustrate a problem with the hands: they appear thicker on Tribble than they do on Holodeck. I'm not sure whether the problem is due to the new hand textures or whether it is one of the unintentional body proportion changes. Also, the hands on Tribble appear thicker from the front and back than from the sides. The problem is illustrated by the screenshots below, which were taken after the 10/3 patch to Tribble and before any subsequent patch.
I am new around the game, but this highly interests me, as I kinda see it as an issue & hope to see some fix - At the moment, when I play a female character in this game, I can't really make her less curvy or can't even make her flat-chested. My "bust" slider is at the minimum, and yet, my character still looks like Pamela Anderson in her prime (ugh.. just.. no).
Since I enjoy playing more of an androgynnous, tomboy women in general, the look and the oversized... um.. thing just do not go together. So, I wonder if the devs are planning to do something about that.. <.<
That made me curious. For purely scienfic and research purpose, and of course the altruistic wish to help, I have made a comparison of the many pictures of Pam Andersons chest in her prime (and some of somewhat before and after that) and can now confidently assure you that its much bigger than minimum slider setting in STO.
That made me curious. For purely scienfic and research purpose, and of course the altruistic wish to help, I have made a comparison of the many pictures of Pam Andersons chest in her prime (and some of somewhat before and after that) and can now confidently assure you that its much bigger than minimum slider setting in STO.
Wow.. no idea how that post of mine ended up here... probably some mod moved it there, as it originally was in another thread. My gripe is obviously the size of "assets", despite of the slider being at lowest setting possible. However, I do not have access to this test server, so I'm not going in lenght here - just will point out a topic I made, where I talk about the issue indepth.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
When i found this thread my stomach turned... for fear my character would be changed after 3 years of hard work. Its like coming home to find your family replaced by someone else... thats how horror movies start....:eek:
Thank you to everyone for speaking up and sending in links and paying attention to the thread. This has been really a civil conversation through the whole thing. Thank you crypticjoejing for actually responding to our concerns...this is really rare.
I hope everyone will remain civil to you so we can keep the information flowing.:D
Ive read your response (quoted below), I was wondering if you could answer a large question that may keep this thread civil and put more minds at ease.
To what end is Cryptic changing the existing format?
What i mean by this is ...Are these changes being done to expand the creation system, (Example: allow tails on aliens, create a new string of uniforms or because making Edosians needs different slider bars etc) or is there a greater improvement at the end of this? If you let the community know where you're going with the modifications they might be embraced more. If you see how many people stepped up to help here you might be surprised how much more support you receive. The biggest complaint i see on the forums is the player base feeling things are getting changed for no reason. If you give us a specific reason, or a specific end result you're working to you could reduce stress on both sides.
Believe me, the entire character team wants that too
We are constantly trying to improve when we can amidst creating new assets and content. And obviously I wish it were that easy.
For a little insight: skirts/dresses carry a unique set of difficulties. The longer the skirt, the harder to make work properly. Trying to make them soft & flowing (or appear that way) and at the same time, not clip with the solid legs underneath.
Also consider that the legs are essentially two separate entities that freely animate, while a skirt or dress is usually one entity that must wrap around and stretch.
So ultimately it's trying to get two completely different systems to work together.
Anyway, I hope that satisfies some curiosity with a very high level description of the process.
That said...the shots you supplied and info on specific skirts will be helpful in continuing to improve all the parts.
I haven't seen anything in the last two patch notes about reverting the remaining unintentional changes. Could we get an update on this?
I'm also interested in seeing what, if any, further fixes can make it in before season 8 arrives. Even if nothing else is likely tobe done before the season hits, I'd still just want to know that as well.
We have still like 2 month to season 8.. and the dev in charge has assure us that our characters are going to remain the same (with better textures and better legs in skirts). Lets be patient and give them time, there is no hurry yet..
The problem persists with both Sierra 1 and Sierra 2 skirts. I haven't tried the others. I would really like to see this clipping addressed before this change goes live, as this is really is immersion breaking for me.:(
I got news for you
I've done another pass and have greatly diminished the clipping while only making minor changes to the improved thighs. Hopefully it's a good balance all around and the end result is considered an improvement by most people.
Again, thanks for the shots and specific problem skirts.
...three sliders named "Spad Height", "Spad Width", and "Spad Depth" in the "Body" tab for male characters and boffs. Females don't have these sliders. Some people have suggested in previous threads that "spad" stands for "shoulder pad".
This is a bug and has been added to our to-do list (not scheduled yet, though).
Indeed it stands for shoulder pad, but it was for internal dev use, and is now obsolete in most cases. Ultimately these sliders should be removed. Thanks for the call out.
...the hands: they appear thicker on Tribble than they do on Holodeck. ...
We have fielded (and expressed internally) many comments about the hands in STO looking unnaturally thin and frail.
The new pass (current version) thickened both genders a little, *and* improved the geometry on the males significantly. Male bare hands are reduced approx 100 polys with minimal to no change in shape. This adds up to big savings very quickly with multiple characters on screen. In fact, the thumbs are actually a bit more rounded than the original version.
That said, the females need the same treatment - their hands have not had this improvement yet.
is the female variant 1 republic uniform EVER going to get that clipping on the chest fixed? its been bugged since the vet trench coat was released, months ago! if you dont know what im referring to, look at any female romulan npc, you cant miss it.
I've done another pass and have greatly diminished the clipping while only making minor changes to the improved thighs. Hopefully it's a good balance all around and the end result is considered an improvement by most people.
Again, thanks for the shots and specific problem skirts.
Will that extend to romulans with the tal shiar top and the 24th century skirt?
And could you please please enable the tal shiar belt with that combination?
I mean if we don't get a matching tal shiar skirt.
We have fielded (and expressed internally) many comments about the hands in STO looking unnaturally thin and frail.
The new pass (current version) thickened both genders a little, *and* improved the geometry on the males significantly. Male bare hands are reduced approx 100 polys with minimal to no change in shape. This adds up to big savings very quickly with multiple characters on screen. In fact, the thumbs are actually a bit more rounded than the original version.
That said, the females need the same treatment - their hands have not had this improvement yet.
Thanks for the update. I'll take another look at the hands after they are updated again.
I've done another pass and have greatly diminished the clipping while only making minor changes to the improved thighs. Hopefully it's a good balance all around and the end result is considered an improvement by most people.
Again, thanks for the shots and specific problem skirts.
And again, THANK YOU for your hard work. I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labors on tribble!
Hey BranFlakes, can you do something to get this man a raise or what?
We have fielded (and expressed internally) many comments about the hands in STO looking unnaturally thin and frail.
The new pass (current version) thickened both genders a little, *and* improved the geometry on the males significantly. Male bare hands are reduced approx 100 polys with minimal to no change in shape. This adds up to big savings very quickly with multiple characters on screen. In fact, the thumbs are actually a bit more rounded than the original version.
That said, the females need the same treatment - their hands have not had this improvement yet.
Hiya Crypticjoe!
Having read your above comment Id like to throw out a suggestion...
Is it possible to put a slider bar in character generation for the geometry you are talking about above?
We all know some folks want things to remain exactly as they are, some folks will love this new change, and some will make the freakiest hand aliens we have ever seen...but giving the player the option seems to placate everyone and eliminate potential animosity.
...I also second martakurill's notion that you need a raise... In one forum post you've solved a bug that has been in the game for years...
The Holodeck image looks more natural to me with darker shadows around the eyes and cheekbones and actual texture to the skin. Whereas the Tribble image looks like it's been airbrushed to death, everything looks absolutely flawless, like it's made of plastic.
I'm not saying the new texture is terrible, you just seem to have made it too perfect.
Looks like the Sierra skirt fix went in with today's patch (though it didn't make the patch notes!). Looks pretty darn good. Crypticjoe, you and anyone else who worked on this did not disappoint!!!
The Holodeck image looks more natural to me with darker shadows around the eyes and cheekbones and actual texture to the skin. Whereas the Tribble image looks like it's been airbrushed to death, everything looks absolutely flawless, like it's made of plastic.
I'm not saying the new texture is terrible, you just seem to have made it too perfect.
At first, I thought the new face textures looked worse, but after I made side-by-side comparisons, I decided that it's really a matter of taste. The new textures have less make-up, have lighter complexions, and are slightly shinier. As a result, they have less contrast. The reduced contrast and increased shininess might contribute to the plastic look you are talking about. But I think this is mostly a matter of individual preferences.
At first, I thought the new face textures looked worse, but after I made side-by-side comparisons, I decided that it's really a matter of taste. The new textures have less make-up, have lighter complexions, and are slightly shinier. As a result, they have less contrast. The reduced contrast and increased shininess might contribute to the plastic look you are talking about. But I think this is mostly a matter of individual preferences.
It's not totally horrible and I'm sure I'll get used to it (It's not like I have much of a choice). I could also probably darken the make-up to bring back some of the shadow. However, one thing does concern me and that's my Trill. They don't have access to make-up and therefore I'm going to be stuck with a pale complexion on my Trill toon.
So all I ask is if we are going to be stuck with the new airbrushed fashion magazine look can we please at least get make-up options for Trill?
The Holodeck image looks more natural to me with darker shadows around the eyes and cheekbones and actual texture to the skin. Whereas the Tribble image looks like it's been airbrushed to death, everything looks absolutely flawless, like it's made of plastic.
I'm not saying the new texture is terrible, you just seem to have made it too perfect.
Looking at that picture... the texture on Tribble is a vast improvement over the old texture currently used. Looks great to me!
It's not totally horrible and I'm sure I'll get used to it (It's not like I have much of a choice). I could also probably darken the make-up to bring back some of the shadow. However, one thing does concern me and that's my Trill. They don't have access to make-up and therefore I'm going to be stuck with a pale complexion on my Trill toon.
So all I ask is if we are going to be stuck with the new airbrushed fashion magazine look can we please at least get make-up options for Trill?
That's actually a good point. I'm not sure why Trills don't have make-up options. It's possible that the spot options take the place of make-up options. They should be independent, but maybe that's not how it's currently implemented.
That's actually a good point. I'm not sure why Trills don't have make-up options. It's possible that the spot options take the place of make-up options. They should be independent, but maybe that's not how it's currently implemented.
The spots taking the place of make-up would be my guess too tbh. However if we can have make-up and tattoos or make-up and scars it would be nice to have make-up and spots.
I guess all I can do is hope crypticjoejing or another character artist reads this and works some dev magic for me :P
The spots taking the place of make-up would be my guess too tbh...
That is indeed currently the case.
Hm...it does pose an interesting and difficult challenge to remedy. Thanks to those that brought it up, we'll have to see how feasible it is to address.
In other news. I've got another update on female legs. Remember the comments that some calves are too thin, some are too thick, some boots fit poorly, etc. Turns out there weren't as many geos and actual problems as I feared.
So I did a pass to improve and unify the skin tight and bare legs. I tested with all the skirts and boots, but let us know if there are any glaring problems we overlooked.
Comments
That could be the best answer a male a made for making skirts shorter
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Vulcan female
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Alien male
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
That made me curious. For purely scienfic and research purpose, and of course the altruistic wish to help, I have made a comparison of the many pictures of Pam Andersons chest in her prime (and some of somewhat before and after that) and can now confidently assure you that its much bigger than minimum slider setting in STO.
The topic can be found here
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Thank you to everyone for speaking up and sending in links and paying attention to the thread. This has been really a civil conversation through the whole thing. Thank you crypticjoejing for actually responding to our concerns...this is really rare.
I hope everyone will remain civil to you so we can keep the information flowing.:D
Ive read your response (quoted below), I was wondering if you could answer a large question that may keep this thread civil and put more minds at ease.
To what end is Cryptic changing the existing format?
What i mean by this is ...Are these changes being done to expand the creation system, (Example: allow tails on aliens, create a new string of uniforms or because making Edosians needs different slider bars etc) or is there a greater improvement at the end of this? If you let the community know where you're going with the modifications they might be embraced more. If you see how many people stepped up to help here you might be surprised how much more support you receive. The biggest complaint i see on the forums is the player base feeling things are getting changed for no reason. If you give us a specific reason, or a specific end result you're working to you could reduce stress on both sides.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
No big sweeping plans so no one has to worry that their characters will drastically change.
Mostly issues we want to address are bugs and/or to continually expand on items and options already in place.
Just wild guessing: Unified avatar base structure for next years summer event bikinis (and similar attire)? :cool:
Thank you for responding! You've just put yourself on my favorite DEV list.
I'm also interested in seeing what, if any, further fixes can make it in before season 8 arrives. Even if nothing else is likely tobe done before the season hits, I'd still just want to know that as well.
I will now go back to waiting patiently.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
I got news for you
I've done another pass and have greatly diminished the clipping while only making minor changes to the improved thighs. Hopefully it's a good balance all around and the end result is considered an improvement by most people.
Again, thanks for the shots and specific problem skirts.
This is a bug and has been added to our to-do list (not scheduled yet, though).
Indeed it stands for shoulder pad, but it was for internal dev use, and is now obsolete in most cases. Ultimately these sliders should be removed. Thanks for the call out.
We have fielded (and expressed internally) many comments about the hands in STO looking unnaturally thin and frail.
The new pass (current version) thickened both genders a little, *and* improved the geometry on the males significantly. Male bare hands are reduced approx 100 polys with minimal to no change in shape. This adds up to big savings very quickly with multiple characters on screen. In fact, the thumbs are actually a bit more rounded than the original version.
That said, the females need the same treatment - their hands have not had this improvement yet.
Will that extend to romulans with the tal shiar top and the 24th century skirt?
And could you please please enable the tal shiar belt with that combination?
I mean if we don't get a matching tal shiar skirt.
Thanks for the update. I'll take another look at the hands after they are updated again.
And again, THANK YOU for your hard work. I look forward to seeing the fruits of your labors on tribble!
Hey BranFlakes, can you do something to get this man a raise or what?
Hiya Crypticjoe!
Having read your above comment Id like to throw out a suggestion...
Is it possible to put a slider bar in character generation for the geometry you are talking about above?
We all know some folks want things to remain exactly as they are, some folks will love this new change, and some will make the freakiest hand aliens we have ever seen...but giving the player the option seems to placate everyone and eliminate potential animosity.
...I also second martakurill's notion that you need a raise... In one forum post you've solved a bug that has been in the game for years...
Comparing 2 images of one of my toons
The Holodeck image looks more natural to me with darker shadows around the eyes and cheekbones and actual texture to the skin. Whereas the Tribble image looks like it's been airbrushed to death, everything looks absolutely flawless, like it's made of plastic.
I'm not saying the new texture is terrible, you just seem to have made it too perfect.
I have to siad that I really like the new texture.
But is a matter of opinions I guess.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
At first, I thought the new face textures looked worse, but after I made side-by-side comparisons, I decided that it's really a matter of taste. The new textures have less make-up, have lighter complexions, and are slightly shinier. As a result, they have less contrast. The reduced contrast and increased shininess might contribute to the plastic look you are talking about. But I think this is mostly a matter of individual preferences.
It's not totally horrible and I'm sure I'll get used to it (It's not like I have much of a choice). I could also probably darken the make-up to bring back some of the shadow. However, one thing does concern me and that's my Trill. They don't have access to make-up and therefore I'm going to be stuck with a pale complexion on my Trill toon.
So all I ask is if we are going to be stuck with the new airbrushed fashion magazine look can we please at least get make-up options for Trill?
Looking at that picture... the texture on Tribble is a vast improvement over the old texture currently used. Looks great to me!
That's actually a good point. I'm not sure why Trills don't have make-up options. It's possible that the spot options take the place of make-up options. They should be independent, but maybe that's not how it's currently implemented.
The spots taking the place of make-up would be my guess too tbh. However if we can have make-up and tattoos or make-up and scars it would be nice to have make-up and spots.
I guess all I can do is hope crypticjoejing or another character artist reads this and works some dev magic for me :P
That is indeed currently the case.
Hm...it does pose an interesting and difficult challenge to remedy. Thanks to those that brought it up, we'll have to see how feasible it is to address.
In other news. I've got another update on female legs. Remember the comments that some calves are too thin, some are too thick, some boots fit poorly, etc. Turns out there weren't as many geos and actual problems as I feared.
So I did a pass to improve and unify the skin tight and bare legs. I tested with all the skirts and boots, but let us know if there are any glaring problems we overlooked.
Preview: http://images-cdn.perfectworld.com/www/f3/b7/f3b756c3c90e36c24058b2282bc18c921382649315.jpg