Aux2Bat Alternative - AD Build -

nickxb · October 2013

Ok so first off forgive the low number of post, first time writer long time reader. I have been using aux2bat for a while, but as many of you have noticed, aux2bat is not so great for survivability esp. in pvp. On top of that, w/ rumors of a Nerf to it coming I decided it was time to find a different option. My fleets name is Access Denied and it seemed like a fitting name for the build.

Works only on ships with Cmdr./ Lt. Cmdr. Eng. OR Cmdr./ lt./ Ens. Eng. (Excelsior)
- Different ships (like the Galor) can be adapted to fit this it just depends on Uni. stations.

Ep2Aux1/Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1/ Ep2Shld3 / Reverse Shld/ Extend Shld

Ep2Aux1/Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1/ Ep2Shld3

Or some cruisers like Excelsior

Ep2Aux1/Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1/ Ep2Shld3 / Reverse Shld/ Extend Shld

Ep2Aux1/Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1

Ep2Shld1

Ships like the Gal. with Cmdr./ Lt.Cmdr./ Ens. Work great because you can add a Eng. Team 1 to that Ens. for a heal.

Also

With ships like the new Battle cruiser this build works great due to the increased turn rate.

- Ep2Aux1/Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1

- EngTeam1/ Aux 2 Inertial Dampeners 1/ Ep2Shlds3/ Revers-DEM-...etc

When doing this make sure to run 2 of the purple Damage control engineer doffs that allow the Ep2x abilities to go non stop. Still have room for the Matter-Antimatter Spc., 2 Maint. Engineers, or 1 and a TT doff if you are running BO.

For your Tac Boff if it is Lt. Cmdr

TT1/ Attack Pattern Beta (more Offense) or Attack Pattern Delta (even more defense)/ BFAW3

Or if Lt. and Ens.
TT1/APB or APD

BFA1

For Sci. Lt

PH1/ HE2 (can be changed to HE1/TSS... What ever your heart desires)

Now to the part that makes this work, DOFFS

(x1) Matter-Antimatter Specialist
- This guy adds +35 All Energy Dmg. Resistance for 21 Seconds (for Rare) W/ Aux2damp. while also increasing its duration.
- Aux2damp also increases Turn rate/Speed/Resistance to Repel..etc.
- Aux2damp resistance also stacks with each other so when you have one up and activate another you get even more resistance.

(x3) Maintenance Engineer
- Increased Hull Repair and shield Emitters w/ Ep2Aux
- +20 to both for each Rare

You can also run only 2 Maintenance Engineers if you are in need of the Doff. I have been using 3 with a Tac Doff that decreases recharge of TT ( TT is a lifesaver due to shield distribution). Need to try 2 of the TT reduction doffs so I can get almost non stop TT.

So far Using this build w/ Adapted Maco mk xII Shield and 2 piece Borg mk xII I have had tremendous success in PVP and PVE. The tanking this build allows is almost laughable.

Had best luck using it on the Excel but could work on Galor/Gal/Gal-x/Bortasqu/ K'tinga to Name a few.

Enjoy!

Like I said, this build is not meant to do OMFG LULZ AUX2BAT Dps, that being said it was believed that I couldn't "hurt a fly". This is by no means amazing, and def. not 20k Scim Rom Plasma aux2bat spam. I just flew to each Cube, Gate, Tac. Cube and sat 1km away to try to take as much dmg. as possible.

-ACT with STO plugin.

-Note the Time and teammates to prove I am not bsing.

http://i.imgur.com/AwVUbbW.png

http://i.imgur.com/FwMbCog.jpg

-And Another, notice the guy that did a little better than me is in a Scim. using Rom. Plasma and Elite Drones.

http://i.imgur.com/rob3OAl.png

http://i.imgur.com/hgF6iQQ.jpg

Pug pvp

dahminus · October 2013

You have 4 eptXs...overkill man.

Most you can have running at once is 2 and that's with cd reduction doffs.

Why not the rsp doff to boost that duration time?

I dunno. I'm not much of a pvper but this looks like it needs work

nickxb · October 2013

Most you can have running is 2 Correct, but if you have 2 copies of each then they are running non stop. Otherwise you have length in between each. Nice to have Ep2Shld3 running non stop while also having the Shld and Hull emitter increase from Ep2Aux going non stop.

mandoknight89 · October 2013

dahminus wrote: »

You have 4 eptXs...overkill man.

Most you can have running at once is 2 and that's with cd reduction doffs.

Four gives you perfect coverage. The cycle runs like this:

Activate EPtX #1. EPtX #2 goes into 30s cooldown, EPtY #1 & 2 go into 15s cooldown, and EPtX #1 to 45s cooldown.

15s later, activate EPtY #1. EPtX #2 has 15s remaining on cooldown, EPtY #2 gets 30s cooldown. (EPtX #1 at 30s, EPtY #1 at 45s) EPtX and EPtY are now simultaneously active.

15s later, activate EPtX #2. EPtY#2 has 15s remaining, EPtX #1 gets another 15s to its cooldown. (EPtX #1 at 30s again, EPtY #1 also at 30s) Y is still active, X has just been refreshed.

15s later, activate EPtY #2.

EPtX #1 is available 15s later, and you can run the whole thing from the top again.

adamkafei · October 2013

dahminus wrote: »

You have 4 eptXs...overkill man.

Most you can have running at once is 2 and that's with cd reduction doffs.

Why not the rsp doff to boost that duration time?

I dunno. I'm not much of a pvper but this looks like it needs work

Actually this looks like it would work just fine and isn't too dis-similar to my own Excelsior build, he's running two copies of his two EPtX skills and thereby maintains 100% uptime without the need for the doffs (which I do use), not to mention that with the doffs he is currently running he doesn't have room for the EPtX ones.

Back to the build though, I've been running an Aux2Damp Excelsior for probably a month now, the quoted poster does have a point about the EPtX cooldown doffs and running those would allow you more offensive flexibility with damage ranges in sight of Aux2Batt.

My own build can be found here (Do check the description section) and can get figures as high as 8k encounter dps with an engineer at the helm, at some point I might even get around to putting it in the hands of a tac captain. (Doubtless one of you guys can)

nx15 · October 2013

Fascinating...

Looks like you just updated the old Dragon Build!!!

Looks great!

This could work on a D'kora/Monboss with DHC's

nickxb · October 2013

adamkafei wrote: »

Actually this looks like it would work just fine and isn't too dis-similar to my own Excelsior build, he's running two copies of his two EPtX skills and thereby maintains 100% uptime without the need for the doffs (which I do use), not to mention that with the doffs he is currently running he doesn't have room for the EPtX ones.

Back to the build though, I've been running an Aux2Damp Excelsior for probably a month now, the quoted poster does have a point about the EPtX cooldown doffs and running those would allow you more offensive flexibility with damage ranges in sight of Aux2Batt.

My own build can be found here (Do check the description section) and can get figures as high as 8k encounter dps with an engineer at the helm, at some point I might even get around to putting it in the hands of a tac captain. (Doubtless one of you guys can)

I liked your build. Mine is a little more sustainability than dmg. but to me these sort of go hand-in-hand when going against tacs. While they are unloading every and thing they can go get me, my shields/hull hold and im able to knock him out. Using feedback pulse 1 helps w that a little to. So yea anyways I guess this is more for kerat/pvp since you cant spam bfaw (unless you use the correct doff).

adamkafei · October 2013

nickxb wrote: »

I guess this is more for kerat/pvp since you cant spam bfaw (unless you use the correct doff).

Mine I did build with pvp in mind but drifting everywhere makes pve all the more fun :P

It's not built with FAW as it's primary weapon, it does 1k with every hit under 6km range with only basic buffs in play (Aux2Damp, EPtW, EPtS) I can almost double that but it is more of a team dps buff capable damage dealing build rather than a straight max dps one. Don't get me wrong though, anywhere I can get a single or dual target situation I pop FAW, APB, EPSPT (Or Nadion) and DEM and melt whatever is in range at the time.

Still, nice work on the build you have

baudl · October 2013

one thing i really don't understand is how this increased tankyness is an improvement in PVE or PVP.

i can't see any relevant dps increase, or "healing others" increase...over let's say a EPtWx2 and EPtSx2 build, or a aux2batt build.
only thing that is increased is that you tank and turn better...both either not needed or irrelevant and at the cost of major dps reduction.

in the end you have a lot of hull resistance that gets sucked up by diminishing return and def is capped anyway, which isn't that hard to reach either.

so the headline is really misleading, since it is not an alternative to a2b build, but an entirely different thing with the goal to increase resistance and turnrate.

thissler · October 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=TLAORBNJSpC4b7LWmWpO3xq40VlNTw0ARQ&feature=player_detailpage&v=erPP8gt4X7M#t=110

That was about nine months ago now. I use it over and over in the Budgets. I don't use 4 EPTx. It is overkill. Especially if you happen to be an engineer. But seriously, for the small gap, or even if the method fails catastrophically, just use a Dual System battery.

Switch around the EPTx that you want to use. Your mileage will vary. My new motto is trying to keep my power scheme somewhat coherent. As in, don't put efficient points in a system that you use EPTx for.

Anyways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kD8JkRGzK8&list=TLPIqcjTqYIq9S58beuQkgQRZDisQAp46X

Much more recent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvquNVlLU9c&list=TLXf87xEgE7MAQm9qyLid76vpmSA_tbkUF

And more recent, explaining a bit how not to run into the harshest of the diminishing returns on resistance.

reginamala78 · October 2013

The one thing I wonder about this kind of setup is that you've taken a cruiser and given it the ability to maneuver plus a pair of always-on EPTx abilities, then RSP and ES3 as extra bonuses. But if you took an escort with 3 or more eng abilities (especially LtCmdr Eng), couldn't you get even faster results and have more tac abilities, only really costing the Extends and a rear weapon? I'm not saying its bad, just that it seems like a lot of trouble to put a square peg in a round hole. Maybe I'm overlooking something, dunno.

adamkafei · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

one thing i really don't understand is how this increased tankyness is an improvement in PVE or PVP.

For me it isn't about the tankyness although it does reduce the number of consoles needed to zero as the ability itself doesn't run into diminishing returns, and it does help from time to time.

i can't see any relevant dps increase, or "healing others" increase...over let's say a EPtWx2 and EPtSx2 build, or a aux2batt build.
only thing that is increased is that you tank and turn better...both either not needed or irrelevant and at the cost of major dps reduction.

For someone who has reason to now run Aux2Batt the extra speed that you forgot about (my cruiser now hits over 60 flight speed now) and turn rate makes for easier positioning and this better dps in itself and using the EPtX cooldown doffs you get your higher level slots back from it to use offensively.

If those reasons aren't enough, flying drifting cruisers is fun and ultimately fun is what a game is for right?

ursusmorologus · October 2013

I've been running 2x AtD on my Support Cruiser Retrofit for a while. I'm using a Matter-Antimatter DOFF for the energy resists, three Damage Control DOFFs for the EPtX cooldown reduction that let me have 100% uptime with just 1 copy of each, and a battery DOFF that boosts my EPS Manifold trait and the RMC and shield battery. With the other buffs from the consoles and whatnot, I have escort-level speed in the 30s, turning in the 20s, and resists in the high 40s.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=starbucksupportcruiser_3536

I built it for use against the crystaline entity when grinding for nukara marks (and now for the CC event)--just orbit the entity and ignore its weapon fire, and outrun or destroy the fragments as I feel like. Its true that it doesn't give you anymore damage, however the boost in turn-rate is significant and the boost to resists make you borderline immortal (especially if you hit PH/HE/BFI). The speed and turning means I can chase somebody down, and I dont have to wait around to be engaged. It basically makes my cruiser a beam destroyer.

I know some people with this setup that dont even slot armor anymore, and for them it frees up a couple more slots for uni consoles.

And its not like there's a lot of other choices with beam cruisers. On my engi corvette, I have a choice between 2x AtD or 2x DEM, but there's not a lot of payoff with DEM on a beam cruiser, so it really comes down to this or AtB or just slap on RSP and whatever. I like this setup, and will probably keep it for a while.

Its technically possible to do 2x AtD and 2x DEM at the same time (lots of keybinds), and that could probably work with a cannon/turret build, but that isnt really viable with this ship due to the BOFF seating.

baudl · October 2013

adamkafei wrote: »

For me it isn't about the tankyness although it does reduce the number of consoles needed to zero as the ability itself doesn't run into diminishing returns, and it does help from time to time.

For someone who has reason to now run Aux2Batt the extra speed that you forgot about (my cruiser now hits over 60 flight speed now) and turn rate makes for easier positioning and this better dps in itself and using the EPtX cooldown doffs you get your higher level slots back from it to use offensively.

If those reasons aren't enough, flying drifting cruisers is fun and ultimately fun is what a game is for right?

sry, but i do not share your fondness of drifting around in space with cruisers.

here is how i see it:
the game does not require excessive hull resistance in any current content, tanking via shields is superior.
a2b, not only yields more firepower, it subsequently cutts cooldowns of defensive boff powers in half too. which can potentially yield high movement speed, def rating and resistance rating with omega 1. (paired with significantly more firepower with 50% uptime)
or 100% uptime with delta2...

movement and positioning just can't be an issue when your cruiser can't even use weapons with a smaller fireing arc than 90 degree...
i agree that a bortasque cruiser (which can equip DHC) can profit of that increased turnrate, but a single cannon cruiser (or beam array) with 7 or even 8 turnrate has sufficent base turnrate. (Not even considering the dilithium mine consoles which give additional 2 turnrate)

so all in all, the resi isn't really necessary for PVE or PVP, the turnrate neither, since DHC aren't equipable.
If drifting around is that important, i guess one can live with less dmg and unnecessary long cooldowns on vital boff abilities like tac team.

nickxb · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

one thing i really don't understand is how this increased tankyness is an improvement in PVE or PVP.

i can't see any relevant dps increase, or "healing others" increase...over let's say a EPtWx2 and EPtSx2 build, or a aux2batt build.
only thing that is increased is that you tank and turn better...both either not needed or irrelevant and at the cost of major dps reduction.

in the end you have a lot of hull resistance that gets sucked up by diminishing return and def is capped anyway, which isn't that hard to reach either.

so the headline is really misleading, since it is not an alternative to a2b build, but an entirely different thing with the goal to increase resistance and turnrate.

Well ill explain why tankyness is better. Aux2bat is great, ive used it for a while, great dps. The problem with it is that you have no aux power. You can do tons of dps but you cant tank all that well and get TRIBBLE heals.

I also did the Eptwx2/Eptsx2. This also works well but really, don't you keep your wpns power at 100 anyways? So your getting a small increase in dmg w/ Eptw. The build I put up is no end all builds are anything, im sure there are better ways BUT..

With the x2 copies of EptA and 2 Maint. Engineers I get +40 shield/hull emitters which in turn means every time I activate Epts3 I get automatic restore of all shields.

With Aux2damp and the Matter-antimatter spc. I get +40 all energy Dmg. resistance/ +39.9 kinetic dmg. resistance. And these are not diminishing, Aux2damp and the resistance it gives will stack because the matter-antimatter doff gives the resistance for x amount of time. On top of that the Epts3 gives another large resistance to shields.

Aux2bat is great for pure pve. Going into pvp with and aux2bat dem beam cruiser just doesn't cut it anymore. Theres rumors that they will nerf it soon anyways so for those reasons I wanted an alternative. As a fed cruiser the biggest thing that got me what the massive spike dmg that kdf tacs can dish out. With my aux2bat cruiser I had to real way to recover from that if it took out a large chunk of my hull , sure you have HE/Eng team/ aux2sif/ but in a fight w no aux those wont do anything.

This build gives cruisers a way to not only completely negate an massive dmg spike but if it does happen to break your shields and hit your hull (your shields will be back up very quickly) then your going to have full aux power for your HE or aux2sif3 / eng team/ to keep you in the fight because that's the point right? Your a cruiser, not an escort. Your role is to tank the dmg, dish out some heals when you can.

marc8219 · October 2013

Selfish tank builds not so useful really except if you solo farm in kerrat, that's about it. Maybe Hive Space also if you have lots of threat control. You can make cruisers as tanky but have more heals to give out to others and still use on yourself if you use aux2SIF instead and also run et3 and es2 or es3.

nickxb · October 2013

marc8219 wrote: »

Selfish tank builds not so useful really except if you solo farm in kerrat, that's about it. Maybe Hive Space also if you have lots of threat control. You can make cruisers as tanky but have more heals to give out to others and still use on yourself if you use aux2SIF instead and also run et3 and es2 or es3.

I give plenty of heals. I keep aux2sif3 / HE / Tss that im able to give to team mates. And as this isn't a healdboat, its just an alternative to aux2bat which leaves you a 100% selfish cruiser. Atleast with this I can spam aux2sif3 when I feel I don't need aux2damp resistance. With this build I keep 100 aux power at all times so while im not the team healboat, I can still give out some good heals to help keep others in the fight.

doffingcomrade · October 2013

It's actually possible to interleave Aux2SIF into a doffed 2x Aux2Damp rotation without loss of uptime. With a single A2SIF, it would run like Aux2Damp -> Aux2SIF -> Aux2Damp -> Aux2SIF.

The catch with Aux2Damp is that it does nothing to address the fundamental shortcomings, offensively, of most of the ships that can run it. Those ships don't have the slots needed to slot a second copy of the Tac powers they use to attack with, resulting in a ship that can only fire its guns half the time.

nickxb · October 2013

doffingcomrade wrote: »

It's actually possible to interleave Aux2SIF into a doffed 2x Aux2Damp rotation without loss of uptime. With a single A2SIF, it would run like Aux2Damp -> Aux2SIF -> Aux2Damp -> Aux2SIF.

The catch with Aux2Damp is that it does nothing to address the fundamental shortcomings, offensively, of most of the ships that can run it. Those ships don't have the slots needed to slot a second copy of the Tac powers they use to attack with, resulting in a ship that can only fire its guns half the time.

Aux2Damp isn't directly offensive but by itself gives a great turn rate bonus, increased speed and great resistance. With right doff you get increased resistance and length resulting in an overlap and stack.

I know this build isn't the most offensive but as a cruiser, the ability to stay and fight while dishing out power ,IMO, is what is important. Escorts and Bops go into a fight trying to quickly kill their target so that there is no need for heavy defense. With this set up I can negate most of their dmg. and if they are able to get some dmg. on me, quickly recover and take them out.

If anyone wants to pm in game and test it out or try different things feel more than welcome to
@nickxb

baudl · October 2013

nickxb wrote: »

Aux2Damp isn't directly offensive but by itself gives a great turn rate bonus, increased speed and great resistance. With right doff you get increased resistance and length resulting in an overlap and stack.

I know this build isn't the most offensive but as a cruiser, the ability to stay and fight while dishing out power ,IMO, is what is important. Escorts and Bops go into a fight trying to quickly kill their target so that there is no need for heavy defense. With this set up I can negate most of their dmg. and if they are able to get some dmg. on me, quickly recover and take them out.

If anyone wants to pm in game and test it out or try different things feel more than welcome to
@nickxb

so far, this is the least offensive i have come accross...not even TT is run at dublicate CD, which is kind of elemental for survivability. (but i guess getting hit on hull isn't a problem for that build)
and pvp, if you are a great tank, you get ignored, because you couldn't harm a fly.

and giving up that much dmg potential for more tankyness in a cruiser is pure overkill for 100% of the content this game offers, including PVP.

in the end it is just as vulnerable to a double subnuke while tractored, which is the only way a good player is killed nowadays, no matter what build he uses.

ehrlehn · October 2013

A2D can be very good on a cannon cruiser, and I have used it on my excelsior where it performs well. However, where it really shines is on an escort like the steamrunner where you can slot 2 copies plus doff for the excellent resistances, and still have the tac slots for firepower. it turns that little ship into a crazy tank that can dish out some hurt.

adamkafei · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

so far, this is the least offensive i have come accross...not even TT is run at dublicate CD, which is kind of elemental for survivability. (but i guess getting hit on hull isn't a problem for that build)

If your cruiser requires dual tac teams to survive then it can't be that great, mine gets by just fine on single tac team and rarely takes damage to hull, in fact if I take hull damage on my current build it's because tac team has exhausted my shields and no amount of twin tac teams is going to save me from that.

and pvp, if you are a great tank, you get ignored, because you couldn't harm a fly.

I wouldn't write off this build quite so quickly I run something similar to his (linked in the first page) and it has no issue being a formidable opponent, I was quite happy to give up 1000 or so DPS from a cookie cutter aux2Batt build for the fun, manoeuvrability and defence this brings. It was only the other day my ship using tetryons (which are also widely written off) took down a rather tanky Bortas'qu that was still quite capable of of dishing out damage and a rather powerful confuse based Sci/Scimmy.

baudl · October 2013

there is really no way to discuss the dmg potential and performance of this build without any benchmark or parsed data.
a "rather" tanky bortasque and sci sci scimitar is kind of subjective and doesn't represent any valuable information about the actual performance.

all i see is, that on paper there is little to no dps increase, only a lot of turnrate, speed (which isn't needed for 270 or 180 degree weapons) and hull resistance (which isn't needed in such high amounts in any STO content)

i understand that for a cruiser that can equip DHC that this is a dmg increase, but single cannons or beam arrays?
So 1000 dps less to a a2b is just a number you pulled out of the top of your head and doesn't represent the actual values in dps you'd lose compared to other builds.

nickxb · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

so far, this is the least offensive i have come accross...not even TT is run at dublicate CD, which is kind of elemental for survivability. (but i guess getting hit on hull isn't a problem for that build)
and pvp, if you are a great tank, you get ignored, because you couldn't harm a fly.

and giving up that much dmg potential for more tankyness in a cruiser is pure overkill for 100% of the content this game offers, including PVP.

in the end it is just as vulnerable to a double subnuke while tractored, which is the only way a good player is killed nowadays, no matter what build he uses.

I use 2 conn doffs giving me only a very small break between tt. On top of that APB 1/ BFAW3, I do plenty of dmg. Sure I did more w aux2bat but ive got more sustainability now. I continue to get 1st in all the stfs, most or top 3 dmg in pvp pug or premade. Tmw I will post some parcer results for you to see. Also like I said, feel free to pm me in game and ill show you.

nickxb · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

there is really no way to discuss the dmg potential and performance of this build without any benchmark or parsed data.
a "rather" tanky bortasque and sci sci scimitar is kind of subjective and doesn't represent any valuable information about the actual performance.

all i see is, that on paper there is little to no dps increase, only a lot of turnrate, speed (which isn't needed for 270 or 180 degree weapons) and hull resistance (which isn't needed in such high amounts in any STO content)

i understand that for a cruiser that can equip DHC that this is a dmg increase, but single cannons or beam arrays?
So 1000 dps less to a a2b is just a number you pulled out of the top of your head and doesn't represent the actual values in dps you'd lose compared to other builds.

Again, its not a dps increase its just another option for some cruisers. Ill record some parcer data later today. With aux2bat I get way more damage sure but for the reasons ive already put, I opted for this.

adamkafei · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

So 1000 dps less to a a2b is just a number you pulled out of the top of your head and doesn't represent the actual values in dps you'd lose compared to other builds.

When I said about 1000 dps I wasn't speaking for all Aux2Batt builds out there, I was talking about my personal experience, which is perfectly legitimate and I ran parsers on both builds to see what I was losing out on, one of these days I might start saving them if it matters that much.

baudl · October 2013

i can comprehend the advantages of this build and the function of high resi, high turnrate, and speed.

what i do not see is content in this game that would actually require your cruiser to be super tanky, maneuverable, speedy while loosing a big chunk of dps in the process.

and in PVP, if you are "unkillable", people will start to ignore you and pick other targets, while you yourself lack the punch to either kill somebody or heavily CC.
As a healer there is potential i guess, but then it should be presented as such a build and not as an alternative to a2b which clearly is a dmg oriented build.

adamkafei wrote: »

When I said about 1000 dps I wasn't speaking for all Aux2Batt builds out there, I was talking about my personal experience, which is perfectly legitimate and I ran parsers on both builds to see what I was losing out on, one of these days I might start saving them if it matters that much.

but if that is the case i fear your a2b build wasn't that great, and infact i saw one of your a2b builds a few month back and it really wasn't a cooky cutter build, but a rather "unorthodox" a2b build if i remember correctly. So, yeah i believe you that you lost only 1000 dps by switching builds.

lter · October 2013

Those doffs gives you a damage resistance magnitude, like consoles as neutronium does. Diminishing return applies, so the bonus from those doffs are gonna be nearly neglictible with some neutronium slotted... And a build that aims to have high survability is suposed to have some neutronium or other resistance consoles in the first place.

I'd tend to think that a2d works fine in escorts with few eng consoles and those having sloted universal consoles, that's it, no neutriniums, they're gonna get the good part from these doffs, and by doing so, they'll be using an ability that it's aimed precisely to escorts like a2d.

For cruisers, assault-type with cannons and no neutroniums but... why would you like to use an assault cruiser to 'tank'. That function is for healers in pvp, better use a star cruiser or a carrier for that purpose. But then again, you'll want resistance consoles in that case...

ursusmorologus · October 2013

baudl wrote: »

i can comprehend the advantages of this build and the function of high resi, high turnrate, and speed.

what i do not see is content in this game that would actually require your cruiser to be super tanky, maneuverable, speedy while loosing a big chunk of dps in the process.

It matters for single-target combat. Turn-rate is probably the single most important factor in the game since it largely determines who is going to get the other ship into the most comprimising position. Ofc, even with AtD, a cruiser isnt going to be getting that B'rel in position, but it will give you advantage against a bunch of other ships that have 12 turn-rate or worse.

Likewise, the ability to control the engagement is also very important. With an AtB build you are going to bring your slow FaW spammer to a 1v1 fight, with AtD you dont have to wait for an escort to come for a taste and then run off, and instead you can chase them down and engage on your terms. Or you can pick a heavy target like a scim and get behind them and unleash.

Also, you are basically trading armor console slots for BOFFs, so you free up a couple of slots for unis. You can move your Assimilated and Zero Conf slots into engi, and add more sci to boost shields or heals or whatever.

If all you want is slow BFaW spammer against multiple fixed-position targets then okay this is not the build for you

thunderfoot · October 2013

I rather like how the OP is thinking outside the box with this. Waay too easy to come in here and copy/paste next week's perfect build for _____. Even easier to read off the loadout and stats and then pontificate "It'll never work! Because you didn't ______." Making my Fed cruiser rigidly follow some unwritten rules somewhere about How Things Ought To Be is boring. Besides, if it doesn't work I can always go back to my A2B build.

I fully intend to check this build out. In game. In both PvE and PvP. Only way to find out what I want to find out about this build. Might be the path to start using my Fed toons again. Certainly looks fun from what I've read.

baudl · October 2013

ursusmorologus wrote: »

It matters for single-target combat. Turn-rate is probably the single most important factor in the game since it largely determines who is going to get the other ship into the most comprimising position. Ofc, even with AtD, a cruiser isnt going to be getting that B'rel in position, but it will give you advantage against a bunch of other ships that have 12 turn-rate or worse.

Likewise, the ability to control the engagement is also very important. With an AtB build you are going to bring your slow FaW spammer to a 1v1 fight, with AtD you dont have to wait for an escort to come for a taste and then run off, and instead you can chase them down and engage on your terms. Or you can pick a heavy target like a scim and get behind them and unleash.

Also, you are basically trading armor console slots for BOFFs, so you free up a couple of slots for unis. You can move your Assimilated and Zero Conf slots into engi, and add more sci to boost shields or heals or whatever.

If all you want is slow BFaW spammer against multiple fixed-position targets then okay this is not the build for you

all you wrote is relevant for PVP if you want to use your cruiser to chase down a nimble escort with your single cannons or beams.
also i can see the benefit in a 1vs1 game, that's where the very, very high reistance values count. unfortunately in a 5vs5 you will be ignored and the rather low dmg doesn't shine either.

however it is completely irrelevant for PVE.
so is the notion that armor consoles are required or serve any purpose in PVE.

Aux2Bat Alternative - AD Build -

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