Question: Advanced Fleet ship weapons vs. Elite stats?

captainhunter1 · September 2013

I'm hoping someone can explain to me why Advanced Fleet ship weapons have four modifiers (and do more DPS) than the more expensive and harder to come by Elite Fleet ship weapons which only have three modifiers.

For one example:

Disruptor Cannons -

Advanced: Dmg x3 Acc (DPS 235)
Elite: Dmg x2 Acc (DPS 230)

Now I know there is a small bonus to the Elite versions in the form of an additional 2.5% chance that they will do 25% more damage to sheilds for 10 seconds. But for the additional cost - almost 1/3 more than the Advanced - they should be doing the same DPS plus the bonus. Isn't that what you paid extra for and worked hard for (in terms of a higher tier Fleet) - not in leiu of the additional DMG mod on the Advanced version?

Is this a bug...or working as intended?

dknight0001 · September 2013

The extra proc is usually considered an unlisted modifier.

Most Hybrid Weapons have 2 Modifiers at Very Rare because they have 2 Procs.

Does anybody have access to the Federation version to check?

starkaos · September 2013

Working as Intended. Rarity just means how many bonuses are available as far as equipment goes except for consoles and Hangar pets. Ultra rare equipment means it has 4 bonuses plus the initial bonus. Making Elite Fleet Equipment include the proc plus all the bonuses the Advanced Fleet Equipment has would make it beyond Ultra Rare rarity. Romulan Weapons have the initial Plasma proc plus the Disruptor proc plus 2 additional bonuses. Elite Fleet Equipment just means that one of the 4 bonuses is replaced with a proc so an Advanced Fleet Weapon can do more damage than an Elite Fleet Weapon. If the procs of Elite Fleet Equipment is not interesting enough, then Advanced is the way to go.

captainhunter1 · September 2013

starkaos wrote: »

<snip>
Elite Fleet Equipment just means that one of the 4 bonuses is replaced with a proc so an Advanced Fleet Weapon can do more damage than an Elite Fleet Weapon. If the procs of Elite Fleet Equipment is not interesting enough, then Advanced is the way to go.

Wow.

In the case of the Disruptor Cannon, the extra dilithium and fleet credits are a huge waste. You are actually paying WAY more for less.

You do 5 DPS less and the 'bonus' proc only works on shields (and only with a small chance to do so at that).

That extra 5 DPS the Advanced cannon has will quickly add up to the 'bonus' proc damage because it is consistant - AND it works on hull too.

A word of advice to fellow Klingon officers - unless you a looking to make a special shield stripper build and are willing to sacrifice DPS for it, DON'T waste your resources on Elite Disruptor Cannons.

bitemepwe · September 2013

Until the Shield resistance reduction proc is nerfed, those Elite Disruptors are very good for PvP since most players swing to either hull tanking or shield tanking but not both.

mimey2 · September 2013

captainhunter1 wrote: »

Wow.

In the case of the Disruptor Cannon, the extra dilithium and fleet credits are a huge waste. You are actually paying WAY more for less.

You do 5 DPS less and the 'bonus' proc only works on shields (and only with a small chance to do so at that).

That extra 5 DPS the Advanced cannon has will quickly add up to the 'bonus' proc damage because it is consistant - AND it works on hull too.

A word of advice to fellow Klingon officers - unless you a looking to make a special shield stripper build and are willing to sacrifice DPS for it, DON'T waste your resources on Elite Disruptor Cannons.

I wouldn't look at just the DPS numbers. Also don't look at the proc as 'only for a nice build', instead, look at it as a force multiplier for an entire team.

Yes, it only affects shields, but it will help an ENTIRE team. If that procs, an entire group of 5 people will be doing 25% more damage to shields for the duration of proc. That adds up VERY quickly.

PvE-wise, sure, NPCs don't use a lot of abilities or have many resists. But it'd still affect them, which means an entire team could still benefit since everything would be dying faster that had shields on it.

captainhunter1 · September 2013

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

And especially to Bitemepwe and Mimey for pointing out the reason the DMG mod was traded for the sheild proc 'bonus'. I rarely do PvP and not a whole lot of space group stuff (mostly ground groups to grind Marks) - so I quess that's where I had my blinders on.

For people who do a lot of that, I can see how the 'bonus' proc would come in pretty handy to support the entire group effort, but for people who mostly PvE like myself, the extra cost for this ability just isn't a smart investment.

I hope this thread helps more people who may be wondeing the same thing, or trying to decide which weapon to buy. It's all based on the play style you believe you will be using them with.

Thanks again to our fellow captains for their expert knowledge. It's certainly helped me make a better choice on outfiting my battlecruiser! :cool:

omegaphallic · September 2013

Elite Disruptors are especially good for Carriers, as that buff helps make your pets hit harder against shields.

doffingcomrade · September 2013

captainhunter1 wrote: »

For people who do a lot of that, I can see how the 'bonus' proc would come in pretty handy to support the entire group effort, but for people who mostly PvE like myself, the extra cost for this ability just isn't a smart investment.

Actually, the Elite Disruptors are simply awesome and made of win and skittles. Even if you mostly just PvE, the face-melting goodness still helps more than an extra [Dmg] mod, widely regarded as Worst Pony when it comes to modifiers.

captainhunter1 · September 2013

doffingcomrade wrote: »

Actually, the Elite Disruptors are simply awesome and made of win and skittles. Even if you mostly just PvE, the face-melting goodness still helps more than an extra [Dmg] mod, widely regarded as Worst Pony when it comes to modifiers.

I know we have a bunch of math wizards out there, any chance someone would like to crunch the numbers and do a comparison?

I'd love to see what this looks like in hard statistics.

Not being a math wiz, I just looked at the 2.5% proc chance (which is 1 in 40). So I took 40 times the 5 extra DPS the Advanced does over the Elite which equals 200 (40x5=200). So on the surface it looks like you are trading 200 points for an extra 58 points (25% x 230=58) to sheilds only.

BUT....

...this assumes the weapon fires once a second. And I know many weapons fire faster or slower than once a second.

AND...

...this doesn't take into account the 10 second window of extra damage OR the fact that this window is open for ALL weapons allied to the proc's weapon (same ship and apparently ALL team mates ships weapons as well - which as people have pointed out could be absolutely devastating in the terms of additional DPS to the targets shields)

Again, I'd love to see what this looks like in hard statistics for those that have all the firing rates, other stats, etc. and would like to do the number crunching. Pretty please?

futurepastnow · September 2013

The damage difference between Advanced and Elite doesn't even bear consideration. One [Dmg] modifier is meaningless. The procs are what matters, and the Elite Disruptor proc is fantastic.

The Elite Phaser proc can actually work out to be a decent shield heal, it's just that another 'decent' shield heal isn't needed by anyone.

mimey2 · September 2013

captainhunter1 wrote: »

Again, I'd love to see what this looks like in hard statistics for those that have all the firing rates, other stats, etc. and would like to do the number crunching. Pretty please?

I'm not all that good with math, so I don't trust myself to get it right.

But at least keep in mind this:

The proc is a 2.5%
I believe it is a per-cycle basis chance to proc
You can have up to 8 weapons on a ship firing these at once
There can be 5 Klingon/KDF-Romulan players on a team, all firing as well.

Yes, such a thing works for any normal proc when you are talking about it, but for the Elite Disruptors, they aren't a normal proc.

If it procs even once from one person, that's 25% more damage to the shields from everyone on a team, guaranteed. Pretending for a moment that every weapon on a ship did 1000 damage (to keep it simple), and every ship had 6 energy weapons, and there were 5 ships firing...

Damage: 1000 per weapon
Times: 6 weapons per ship
Total: 6,000 damage per ship
Times: 5 ships all doing the same amount
Total: 30,000 damage from all ships

With the proc:

Damage: 1000 per weapon
Times: 25% (adds 250 damage for the shields in this case)
Total: 1,250 damage
Times: 6 weapons per ship
Total: 7,500 damage per ship
Times: 5 ships on a team
Total: 37,500 damage

Now yes, the exact math probably won't work that way, and the numbers were kept simple as well. But, see how much of a difference even it made? Even in that simple example, the numbers went up quite a bit, and in the real game, those numbers would be considerably larger in the hands of good players.

benovide · October 2013

Elites are useless in PvP I've flown several different elite builds. Overall with recording software my tables showed significantly less combat ability in my BoP and in my Raptor. My overall DPS in my jem dread dropped as well.

With those "added procs" your no where near as good as you were without them. With process effects for my hohsus alone. My DPS dropped by 700 using full set of elite cannons vs advanced cannons.

benovide · October 2013

And no. Procs by far are NOT per cycle.

Question: Advanced Fleet ship weapons vs. Elite stats?

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