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The difficulty of elite ground stf's. Virtually impossible to do.

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  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    timelord79 wrote: »
    Actually, when he bugs out, it becomes really easy, when you have a sniper at the right spot.
    Sniper can shoot him from beyond his weapon range and he just takes it till he drops.

    True, but sometimes he bugs another way by the means of massive damage from the orbital strikes, or simply insta kill everyone, even when spread out... Yes, it does happen that he bugs that way, I have experienced it myself...
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  • wolfpacknzwolfpacknz Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I thought the descriptor "elite" was self-explanatory. Just because you reach level 50 does not mean you are prepared to play all end-game content.

    Pretty much sums it up...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ***Disenchanted***
    Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited September 2013
    here is why there should be a requirement to join elite stfs..
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    ESTFS on the ground are hard, like they are supposed to be. Tactics and patience win the day, also having regens is a good plan as you become really useless if you have 30 yellow, 20 red and 50 gray injuries....

    Seriously though while the Optionals sometimes seem far our of grasp even they are not. Join the channels likePublciEliteSTF, really helped me find a group.

    But you need to LISTEN and talk with people you need to follow the group.

    It's not call of duty where you are the end all ultimate BA....
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    They're not impossible. I've been slowly doing optional runs on my alts with the help of some experienced fleetmates. You just need to have a team lead by someone who really knows what they're doing, and teammates who can understand and follow directions.

    They say IGE has the hardest optional, but if you know where the trigger lines are, it's really quite straightforward- just very tight on time. With a moderately strong boss at the end. Take a sniper rifle and a pulsewave.

    CGE has the easiest optional (though also tight on time), and a ridiculously strong boss at the end. A melee weapon helps. A science officer who can tank Armek helps a lot.

    KAGE has a moderately difficult optional (for me) just because the big, multilevel room is so easy to get lost in. Close combat so a pulsewave is probably the best weapon. The boss at the end is very easy. Make sure you take someone who knows how to control the forcefields.
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  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    timelord79 wrote: »
    I have one bit of advice.

    Don't take on more than you can chew.

    Meaning: Don't attack more than one group at a time.
    If several groups of Borg are standing close together, pull one away from the rest.
    Don't bother with the optinals at first until you got the main objectives under control.
    Make sure your team sticks together.
    The mission is not a race, just the optional is, so take all the time you need.

    Once you know the mission well enough you can fine-tune strategies to aim for the accolades and optionals.

    Pretty much this. Avoid aggro when possible. Heal your teammates.

    That said, you don't need ?ber-gear if you know what youre doing, although it helps. Fleett armor, a fractal remodulator and a good shield with the [Pla] modifier is all you need until you get the STF set of your choice, if you so desire.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Pretty much this. Avoid aggro when possible. Heal your teammates.

    That said, you don't need ?ber-gear if you know what youre doing, although it helps. Fleett armor, a fractal remodulator and a good shield with the [Pla] modifier is all you need until you get the STF set of your choice, if you so desire.

    This point also bears repeating.

    Tactics, patience, situational awareness (not the character trait), proper usage of your kit powers, and duty officers which augment them are more important than any gear you have on.

    I've done elites without dying in green Mk X gear, using a regular remodulator. If you're in this position, the only real asset you have to your team is your kit powers. Squad Leader for tactical officers is extremely useful for ground STFs since it focuses more on buffing and protecting the entire team instead of you, which ends up making the STF go faster. If you aren't that powerful, Squad Leader makes up for it by helping everyone around you.

    For engineers, fabrication kits are essential, and the doffs that allow you to proc multiple turrets and drones. This is useful for the general trash up until the final boss (except on KAGE where the final boss is a joke). But placing quantum mortars outside Armek's forcefield is useful since they will still hit him.

    For science officers, if your gear sucks, I'd recommend going Medic and simply supporting your team by keeping them alive. Don't worry about shooting the borg as much as ensuring everyone else who is better skilled/equipped/experienced than you is alive to kill them.

    I will take a tactical officer with sub-par gear who wisely uses Squad Leader over a tactical officer in the best gear who doesn't know wth he is doing and dies all the time, pulls unnecessary aggro, etc.... any day of the week.

    Also, large hypos are a necessity for any Elite STF on the ground. No exceptions for tac officers or engineers. The only exception are for science officers who rock the medical kit, since it's kind of redundant.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • tigerblade66tigerblade66 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Strange how I?ve leveled 14 characters, Tier 5 Rep, and have yet to complete a ground STF. Did one a year or so ago, failed it miserably in a Pug, and never tried again since. Although I read up on the mission I couldn't say the same for the rest of the team...

    The worst Pug space STF I ever experienced was ISE. (2 of us went left and for some reason another 2 went right and some goof-ball attacked the gate itself.) I must have gave myself a hernia from laughing too hard as I completed the mission on my own while 3 guys kept blowing up left and right and the 4th gave up halfway thru?.:D
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  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited September 2013
    nabreeki wrote: »
    Sorry, but if you can't figure out how to do the room in five minutes or less, you shouldn't be playing the game. STO requires the bare minimum of sentient thought to play in PvE, and the room is incredibly simple. When someone says "B3" you simply select the correct options on the pop-ups, and the shields disappear.

    People not understanding what to do in KAGE is not the STF's problem, it's the players' problem, as is poor group coordination. None of these are flaws in the STF, nor do they speak to the difficulty of the STF, it is purely on the part of the players. KAGE is by far the easiest ground STF to complete, and as you noted: IGE and Cure have trickier end-bosses.

    2x's today I tried to get the optional on Infected ground elite and failed to get it - it's friggen hard - almost always on a pug someone crosses the trigger points on the floor - ARRRGGHH

    I completed the mission but it's really a waste of time for the rewards - you have to like ground - if you don't like ground - don't waste your time.

    And pugging Infected ground elite or Cure ground elite is risky business since the end boss is hard - if a player dies and respawns and is not res'd then they respawn outside a forcefield until everyone DIES! Friggin annoying.
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    KAGE - Engy drops mines on 1, boom. Drops Bomb on 2, boom (repeat 3x)

    Doing that, that room takes all of what, 2 minutes tops?
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,581 Community Moderator
    edited September 2013
    KAGE - Engy drops mines on 1, boom. Drops Bomb on 2, boom (repeat 3x)

    Doing that, that room takes all of what, 2 minutes tops?

    2 Engies with the bomb kit dropping mines. Now THAT's a spicy meatball! :D
    1 engie's mines will drop it 50%. 2 kill it outright. :cool:

    Anyways... KAGE is the easiest of the ground STFs. I can PUG that one all day. Infected and Cure... I'll run with my fleet. You just need the right gear, communication, and a dose of luck for the optionals.

    Why most people are alergic to ground I don't know. They can be fun, and it kinda is half the game. The other half being space.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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  • notapwefannotapwefan Member Posts: 1,138 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Grounds are hard if team is composed of incompetent players.

    Sniper rifle is not recommended in IGE until you are in the room. It is because that sniper rifle knocks away the borg out of the range of other players when time is crucial, and you can't corss the trigger lines. Take split beam rifles with you. Once you are in the room then feel free to use sniper as long as you are not targeted by the flying queen :)

    and oh by the way, for the love of gods, take modulator, shield/health heals with you. Also watch out for injuries. Each injury reduces your effectiveness. It is also not a bad idea to use power cells once a while.
    Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
    Ain't Nobody Got Time for That


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • amberdzamberdz Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    notapwefan wrote: »
    Sniper rifle is not recommended in IGE until you are in the room. It is because that sniper rifle knocks away the borg out of the range of other players when time is crucial


    ummm...that's why you form a team and don't pug it. Those assigned to use sniper rifles to pull the borg closer, so you don't accidentally cross the trigger line, should KNOW not to use the secondary knock-back fire.

    I love ground and with a good team...IGE is my favorite.
  • elemberq333elemberq333 Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think all of the elite STF missions are fine as long as there is a normal level you can access and by doing that you learn how to do the mission setting you up to do it on the elite setting...
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I think I am the only person in my inner circle of friends that can openly admit I was noob enough at one point to fall off the noobie bridges in the final room of IGN once.

    >_>

    Ok twice.

    But that second one was cause i forgot it wasnt elite. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
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    Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Thread move. Please keep STF discussions in the FE/Events thread. Thanks!
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I think I am the only person in my inner circle of friends that can openly admit I was noob enough at one point to fall off the noobie bridges in the final room of IGN once.

    >_>

    Ok twice.

    But that second one was cause i forgot it wasnt elite. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
    I'm actually confident enough in my jumping skills that I never worried about that even in normal. I would regularly stand on platforms you couldn't walk to while fighting and not think twice.

    Then again, I grew up playing Nintendo games where falling to your death was a normal part of gameplay. >_> got Mario? :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • carasucia83carasucia83 Member Posts: 568 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    questerius wrote: »
    If i can do Ground ESTF with a Romulan Science with only episode gear then it is not too difficult. Scaling them down would ruin the experience.

    Ground is not Space. There is actually a point to being a tank on the ground. And I agree 100%, scaling them down would reduce the last remaining content that is vaguely challenging to the autopilot levels of Infected Space. Any content labelled Elite should not be a 5 minute quickie.
    I don't do the ground missions on normal, let alone elite. I don't find it challenging facing a foe that will oneshot you no matter what you do to avoid it. To me, there's no game there. I have to have a chance to react to an attack, whether it be to avoid it, heal it or use an ability or tool to soak it up. If there's nothing I can do, there's no game, and no fun.

    The currently bugged premature thalaron pulse, the Unimatrix lance, the Borg shield stripper, Invisitorp, instakill plasma spread....

    I have only ever been one shot on the ground in PvP.
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Because ground is deadlier, you really are stuck with your class due to kits (unlike space were ships are your class) and because Tacs are the weakest class on ground as at beast they are buffers (thats why a Tac in a team is not a bad thing) as so require to actually know what they are doing (thats why a Tac in a team is always viewed with suspicion).

    Also, you have to like, you know, move your character, you can't 'Yo-Yo' and it all 'takes too long', apparently....
    "So my fun is wrong?"

    No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'm actually confident enough in my jumping skills that I never worried about that even in normal. I would regularly stand on platforms you couldn't walk to while fighting and not think twice.

    Then again, I grew up playing Nintendo games where falling to your death was a normal part of gameplay. >_> got Mario? :P

    I played the SWG ground game (mostly PVP) for the full 8 year run. But after some time away from it, ground is kinda rough for me again. I got so used to "submarine" warfare in STO space, it really threw me off.

    I am competent at ground here, and can handle jumps ok now, but I am horribly out of practice and really only did ground for the accolades and to experience them.

    Im not scared to play ground elites, by any means, I just tend to be the weakest member of the team in that respect (i have good gear, but I dont do it regularly so I lack practiced experience)
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    Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
    Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    ijimithy wrote: »
    Elite Ground STF's are quite do-able. First of you need to have the STF Ground Equipment
    No, this is nonsense, particularly since you need to DO such missions in order to GET any equipment to begin with, and you certainly can't get any of this stuff until Tier 5, after which you are done and have no serious reason to ever do this again!

    No, what you NEED is a SWORD. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age, not as clumsy or random as a blaster. Since they inflated the cost of STF gear by a factor of infinity, I've never bothered to buy any of that stuff again. The way I see it, at some level of price increase, be it 10%, 50%, 100%, 1000%, you say TOO MUCH. INFINITY% is clearly greater than any of these, and logically is therefore too much.

    So TRIBBLE STF gear. Get yourself a SWORD.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • eatsmarteatsmart Member Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    because Tacs are the weakest class on ground

    This is only true when soloing, or when pugging as the only person who knows what they're doing. Tactical is very very strong after you have the "tactical ground epiphany". Take any party makeup of sci/eng who know what they're doing, remove 2 from the most numerous, and add 2 tacs who know what they're doing, and you will clear the encounter dramatically faster.

    I've been in runs with 4 tacs where not one of them has used tactical initiative, even to buff their own strike team. It is the epic and widespread learn to play issues that get the class a bad reputation.

    -*-

    OP, i suggest the following:
    *Expand your captain power tray to two rows. press p and equip any captain ground powers that arent already on your tray. Learn how they function, all of them.
    *When you are not in melee range, either crouch (default c), or run (default Shift) - this increases your chance to dodge an attack. When you dodge, you lower the damage taken significantly.
    *When you are not running, use the aim command (default x) this gives you a 33% ranged damage buff.
    *Keep your captain facing tactical drones, especially heavies and elites. This avoids them getting the flanking damage bonus on you.
    *Carry a full stack of large hyposprays. equip a tribble (ideally idic, assimilated, or gambling device, but any tribble is better than none)
    *Learn the map on normal, until you know:
    - Where every elite tactical drone is
    - What a run that gets the optional looks like
    - How to complete the run with a subpar group (eg cure is much easier for a bad group if you ignore the turrets, but people feel obliged to do them because they shoot)
    *Purple mk X kits are very very cheap to craft. grab one of each of the major 2-3 for your class. If you cant craft them, ask a friend. Blue Mk IX are sold from kit vendors for around 13k energy credits if you cant find a crafting friend.
    *Learn the game with Squad Leader (tac), Medic (sci), Enemy Neutralisation (eng) kits. After that play with the others. There's multiple viable builds, but those are the easiest to learn to be effective with and dont have noob-trap powers that hurt the team if used inappropriately.

    Honestly, ground isnt hard. Its punishing if you make a mistake. Sometimes your teammates make the mistake on your behalf. Public grouping is a very poor way to experience it, group with friends/fleetmates.
  • nithanathnithanath Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Ground STFs are obviously bugged. Borg are supposed to be friendly, furry little creatures who offer you tea and cookies as you merrily stroll along your way through the map. Also they fail to show you the way in case you are lost or offer any further assistance.

    Please, cryptic, fix this.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    No, this is nonsense, particularly since you need to DO such missions in order to GET any equipment to begin with, and you certainly can't get any of this stuff until Tier 5, after which you are done and have no serious reason to ever do this again!

    No, what you NEED is a SWORD. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age, not as clumsy or random as a blaster. Since they inflated the cost of STF gear by a factor of infinity, I've never bothered to buy any of that stuff again. The way I see it, at some level of price increase, be it 10%, 50%, 100%, 1000%, you say TOO MUCH. INFINITY% is clearly greater than any of these, and logically is therefore too much.

    So TRIBBLE STF gear. Get yourself a SWORD.
    Technically it wasn't free before, especially since it required random boss drops that you may or may not ever get.

    the current system is simply a different, less random, grind.

    Anyways though, I only like 3 of the Eng kits, Enemy Neutralization(mines and other things that go boom), Bunker fabrication, and fabrication specialist. The Eng kits that focus on debuffs kinda stink....

    As for Sci.... healing and damage abilities are most useful, debuffs also stink.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    It is the epic and widespread learn to play issues that get the class a bad reputation.

    Something else that needs repeating. STO has more Tac players than any other class. Largely because people see 'Tactical' as the 'Warrior' class. This is to be fully expected, but the thing with Tactical officers is in the name. Tactical.

    You aren't supposed to be cannon fodder or a dumb jock. You're supposed to use tactics and strategy and help your team.

    But they aren't Rambo. They're a fifth wheel. A skilled tactical officer will see the rest of his team as the real weapon to use against the Borg, and will take steps to maximize the team's efforts on the ground.

    Redshirt Goofus slaps on the fire team kit, grabs a sniper rifle, and spends the entire time knocking Borg back from the rest of the team which takes even longer to kill.

    Redshirt Gallant uses Squad Leader, Grenade Satchel, or if using Fire Team -- using a split beam rifle or the Omega Force Autocarbine to debuff the entire group of Borg and/or buffing the entire team around him.

    Redshirt Goofus thinks using Tactical Initiative takes precious seconds away from using his single-target sniper rifle, which already takes a while to kill a single Borg on elite.

    Redshirt Gallant uses Tactical Initiative every time it comes up because he knows it helps the entire team, and engineers and science officers love having their powers on cooldown.

    Redshirt Goofus thinks he's Duke Nukem and the rest of the team are civilians he has to prevent from dying, so he has to kill everything before they harm the engineers and science officers.

    Redshirt Gallant recognizes that an Engineer deals more damage than he ever will, and that a Science Officer can tank harder than he can while providing crowd control to make everyone's job easier. His job is to debuff the Borg with the Fire Team kit so the Engies turrets and drones chew them up and spit them out, and so the science officer can more effectively heal everyone or drop AoE pain from a distance.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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