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How to make Engineers relevant again.
dontirri
Member Posts: 44 Arc User
So. I got a character in all 3 classes at the moment, and I have to say, outside of ground content (engineers are awesome in ground eSTF's), my Engie is the least useful in space.
He can't dps as well as my tac (which makes sense) but he can't heal, debuff or tank as well as my sci either. And since tanking is apparently supposed to be the Engineers job judging by the captain skill heals and the general lean towards resists/heals on engineering Boff-abilities... well, engies are screwed.
But the means to fix this already exist in the game more or less. The solution? Draw Fire. A TACTICAL ground ability. Why is it Ground only? WHY IS IT TACTICAL?
Hard to tell. But make it an Engineering Captain Ability appliable to both ground and space and VOILA, Engineers have a role in endgame PvE again. With that, Engineers could finally do what their skillset suggests they should, keep the enemies from shooting at the dps or healers.
Want to go full 9 yards? Make it so that activating the ability prevents anyone, player and npc alike, within 10km from targeting anyone but the engie for 5 seconds. Boom, Engies have a role in endgame PvP.
Want to go even further? Take a note from WoW and give engies a trait that increases all damage done when taking fire a la Conservation of Energy-trait on sci-side. That way an Engie would WANT to get shot a lot. Make the uptime of a single stack shortish and the max stacks high-ish and an engie would want to be shot constantly, thus forcing them to go more and more tankish at the expense of DPS to fulfill their role and keep the trait from being overpowered.
These 3 changes and suddenly Engineers are relevant again. And since all it would take to do it is slighty altering already existing code (atleast for the first and third parts), it shouldn't be THAT difficult, now would it?
He can't dps as well as my tac (which makes sense) but he can't heal, debuff or tank as well as my sci either. And since tanking is apparently supposed to be the Engineers job judging by the captain skill heals and the general lean towards resists/heals on engineering Boff-abilities... well, engies are screwed.
But the means to fix this already exist in the game more or less. The solution? Draw Fire. A TACTICAL ground ability. Why is it Ground only? WHY IS IT TACTICAL?
Hard to tell. But make it an Engineering Captain Ability appliable to both ground and space and VOILA, Engineers have a role in endgame PvE again. With that, Engineers could finally do what their skillset suggests they should, keep the enemies from shooting at the dps or healers.
Want to go full 9 yards? Make it so that activating the ability prevents anyone, player and npc alike, within 10km from targeting anyone but the engie for 5 seconds. Boom, Engies have a role in endgame PvP.
Want to go even further? Take a note from WoW and give engies a trait that increases all damage done when taking fire a la Conservation of Energy-trait on sci-side. That way an Engie would WANT to get shot a lot. Make the uptime of a single stack shortish and the max stacks high-ish and an engie would want to be shot constantly, thus forcing them to go more and more tankish at the expense of DPS to fulfill their role and keep the trait from being overpowered.
These 3 changes and suddenly Engineers are relevant again. And since all it would take to do it is slighty altering already existing code (atleast for the first and third parts), it shouldn't be THAT difficult, now would it?
Post edited by dontirri on
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I see engineers flying outside of ESD. You perception is wrong, all is good.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
not played a sci char but what makes them so good in your opinion don't realy see any heals they get that would help other then science boff skills which anyone can get
from what i saw the actual char skills doesn't help you with the ship like the eng skills does
ie miricle worker hull and shield heal reverse polarity let the enemy heal your shields
i would take eng over sci or tact
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
I have six characters at the moment, three are Tactical, two are Engineer and one is a Science Side Project (thought I'd give Science another go). Needless to say, as fun as it is flying into a battle unloading your cannons, I find it gets boring all too quickly.
I much prefer to fly a Cruiser, and at that, prefer to use my Federation Engineer. The problem I've got with Engineers (excluding what has already been posted) is the Galaxy Class; a ship design that I love, but cannot use. I can't get on with the three Engineering Boff setup. Just doesn't work for me. Save raving on about what I'd like done to the Galaxy though, I do support the suggestion posted above. Engineers do need more of a purpose.
Then you are doing it wrong - I've had max level Engineers on both sides right from the start of this game - no one can out heal or out tank them (trying to resist the urge to say "learn to play" or send you to the fleet yards section to learn about how configs work)
If you know how to use an engineer, they are very powerful and potent.They are far from "screwed"
could't have put it better myself
NW-DHNVMMGVJ Dragons horde part one.
http://youtu.be/0KbqTWeJqxc
^this as well.
LTP is a very 'relevant' response to this silly OP.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
The problem with my Engies tanking is not being able to get aggro. Yes, he's practically immortal in PvE and even in PvP it takes a lot of concentrated effort from multiple tacs to kill him. Problem is, it shows in his DPS. Even with full threat control skills and APD3 with the threat doff, I keep getting my aggro ripped from me. And in PvP I ignored for squishier targets.
Which is where the Draw Fire mechanic comes to play. To be able to spec purely for defense like a tank should and still be able to attract fire.
My Tac can't heal as well as my Eng or Sci true. But that's Tacticals job. Push out max dps.
My Sci actually CAN tank better than my Eng due to flying a fast Sci-ship for speedtanking and what he can't speedtank, he's able to get by with ridiculously high shield mod, debuffing enemy offense with drains/debuffs, not to mention good heals. I.E what a Sci should do.
But my engie... He gets outdps'ed by a tac, his team heals aren't as good as sci. His self-heals don't matter that much since he doesn't get shot at. And most of all, even in a shiptype meant for an engineer, the cruiser, tacs and scis get more out of. Tac A2B cruiser outDPS'es practically anything atm and a Sci can also teamheal better than a Engie in a cruiser.
And since endgame is pretty much purely team-oriented... Engineers are screwed. Give them a way to make use of that survivability in a team-enviroment and they are useful again.
Do tell!
How many optional objectives to you reach by tanking? Tanked the probes on KA *win*
How many PvE missions reward a tank? DO you really hold the thread, or does no matter how half-assed it is piloted the tac/scort next to you get it no matter what you do?
How often do you get placed 1st place because of your self only heals and not because of damage? Or does the tac with guns blazing get placed 1st even if they only join half-way through the missions. bonus question, if you share your heals (the ones tac and sci also have access to, but less backup compared to eng) do you actually benefit, or the one sticking around longer doing more damage?
Which synergies does you eng have between his cpt abilites and his BO abilities? APA boost ALL damage, SNB removes ALL buffs, NI / EPS how much of that bonus energy is lost to overcapping, since we all swimming energy anyways?
How many Tac or Sci players actually haven't capped out on free heals via procs, or boost to subsystem energies through powercreep. Does EPS given to an ally, really compete with snb/ss, or apa, ti, gdf?
Is there a single tac/scort (they should be the most fragile feddies, right?)in this game that can't tank through Boss NPC encounters just fine without eng cpt abilities?
How come Sci fleet, gives better hull resists to your team then Eng Fleet?
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Getting aggro isn't hard for any profession. My main is an eng who flies and excel. Most of the people in my fleet exceed 15k dps in their tacs and scis and I still hold aggro. Infact aggro is often shared between me and the other eng/tank in the team.
What exactly are you doing/have you got to increase your aggro currently?
Bleed Green and Gold