Is it too soon to start reporting bugs on the changes to character models on today's

kalani · September 2013

Is it too soon to start reporting bugs on the changes to character models on today's update? Also should we talk about this in this sub-forum or the tribble feedback sub-forum?

This is one area I'm particularly interested in testing and doing whatever I can to help.

cerritourug · September 2013

I dont know if it soon or late but I am extremely worried about this patch that nearly destroyed my Alien character that took me a lot of time to build:

I created a demorecord and this is what I got:

This is on HOLODECK:
http://imageshack.us/a/img401/3928/xyvs.jpg

This is on TRIBBLE:
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/422/l68f.jpg

Please cryptic, fix this before it gets to Holodeck (when ever that is). I hope we dont get another "TNG pants" issue.. even so this is muuuuch worst.

The SAME thing happened with my Joined Trill character.

kalani · September 2013

All my toons Ive pulled up on tribble are having similar issues. The sliders for scaling things like height torso length and depth and head size are all out of wack and I think there maximum magnitudes may have been decreased some how but I'm gonna have to play around with it some more to be sure.

cerritourug · September 2013

I really liked the new skin textures, but the change on body proportion are really game braking for me.

But I am going to stay positive because I am sure that is a bug that they are not going to allow to go live.

kalani · September 2013

cerritourug wrote: »

I really liked the new skin textures, but the change on body proportion are really game braking for me.

But I am going to stay positive because I am sure that is a bug that they are not going to allow to go live.

I feel the same way. I just really wanna get involved in this cause Ive probably spent over 250 hours in the character creator and taylor in STO and Id like to help in any way I can to make this end up being a true improvement. Making characters look good is one of my favorite parts of this game because we have so many options to do so and make them unique and I'd hate to see all that work go down the drain from this not being handled right.

kyuui13 · September 2013

cerritourug wrote: »

I really liked the new skin textures, but the change on body proportion are really game braking for me.

But I am going to stay positive because I am sure that is a bug that they are not going to allow to go live.

Given the history of Cryptic when it comes to something like this, don't count on it 100%. I've seen plenty of bugs hit live that were talked about for a long time. Never mind the few where they tested them all of 8 hours before release.

kalani · September 2013

kyuui13 wrote: »

Given the history of Cryptic when it comes to something like this, don't count on it 100%. I've seen plenty of bugs hit live that were talked about for a long time. Never mind the few where they tested them all of 8 hours before release.

I know their history with this kind of thing but I have feeling everyone's characters being seriously deformed without means to make them look good again would hit Cryptic in the wallet hard enough they would do whats necessary to fix it.

Its one thing when a bug stops a relatively small part of the game from working as intended for a time. Its something else entirely when a bug permanently undoes the work players have spent making there characters unique.

cerritourug · September 2013

kalani2 wrote: »

I know their history with this kind of thing but I have feeling everyone's characters being seriously deformed without means to make them look good again would hit Cryptic in the wallet hard enough they would do whats necessary to fix it.

I also know that in season 7 I think, when they change the stances, the first ones wore really really horrible.. I mean, the Android stance was discussing, but the character artist took our feedback and fix them so they were fine at the release.

I hope that they do the same here. Like I said, the texture is good but the character deformation is horrible.

kalani · September 2013

cerritourug wrote: »

I also know that in season 7 I think, when they change the stances, the first ones wore really really horrible.. I mean, the Android stance was discussing, but the character artist took our feedback and fix them so they were fine at the release.

I hope that they do the same here. Like I said, the texture is good but the character deformation is horrible.

I really do believe there gonna do what they need to in-order to get this right but it would be really nice if a Dev would say that somewhere. Being the weekend I really wouldn't expect that for at least a couple days though.

martakurill · September 2013

Finally got to log in to tribble this morning, and my experience was similar to that of many of the above posts.

I will say that after playing around for a few minutes, trying to see if it was possible to "fix" things, I came to a few realizations:

*The issues for me primarily seemed like one of scaling. For example, a full hips slider on Holodeck feels like about 4 bars on Tribble.
*A solution to the above issue is to have some method whereby Holodeck values are converted to the new Tribble values, resulting in minimal changes to player's characters.
*I do like what can be done by playing with the sliders now compared to the current Holodeck build. For example, every female no longer has to look like a track star below the waist and can be a little more "normal". Also, as far as a waistline goes, I'm no longer limited to "Barbie doll" or "3 months pregnant."
*I don't like that unless this changes, I'm going to have to spend hours redoing all my costumes, and paying energy credits for the privilage.

Just my thoughts. I didn't have a lot of time to test said changes, so I could be a bit off on my observations, but I thought it would be prudent to post while my impressions are fresh.

senatorvreenak · September 2013

Please don't let this hit holodeck...

I worked long and hard on my main toons, I would absolutely hate to see them completely ruined.

futurepastnow · September 2013

No, it's not too early.

This change to female body proportions is absolutely stupid and we got to get them to revert it.

It is unnecessary and was requested by no one ever
It looks awful
It destroys character models some of us have lived with for 3+ years
Did I mention it looks awful?

kalani · September 2013

My recommendation would be to keep the new skin textures and revert all the other changes made to female models to the way it is on holodeck and then only reshape the calf to make it look more organic and scale to be an appropriate size compared with the thigh.

futurepastnow · September 2013

Oh, it looks like not only did they reduce the calf bulk by at least 50%, they increased the thigh bulk, too. Which mean if you increase bulk to make the calves look human, you make the thighs look like balloons, poofing out the bottom of longer clothing like the robe or long coat tops. It looks terrible.

I agree that calves needed a minor adjustment, but this takes it absurdly far.

cerritourug · September 2013

kalani2 wrote: »

My recommendation would be to keep the new skin textures and revert all the other changes made to female models to the way it is on holodeck and then only reshape the calf to make it look more organic and scale to be an appropriate size compared with the thigh.

Agree 100%

Is pretty much simple, took the TOS skirts legs and put it in the other skirts. Leave the new skin texture and that is all. We dont need nothing else.

thay8472 · September 2013

uhmmm.. given the choice... I would prefere to keep what we have now.

cerritourug · September 2013

thay8472 wrote: »

uhmmm.. given the choice... I would prefere to keep what we have now.

If comes between the current Holodeck build vs the Tribble one with out fixes, then yes.. with out a single doubt, I prefer the Holodeck one.
The Tribble build is just game breaking for me.

rylanadionysis · September 2013

Ill just leave this here...

http://i.imgur.com/0ZlJmkP.jpg

martakurill · September 2013

cerritourug wrote: »

If comes between the current Holodeck build vs the Tribble one with out fixes, then yes.. with out a single doubt, I prefer the Holodeck one.
The Tribble build is just game breaking for me.

After finally getting some more time with the build, I have to agree. Holodeck > Tribble hands down. My initial impressions aside, I can't really get things to look "right" with the Tribble tailor...proportions are off no matter what I do, horrible clipping, etc...mostly things that people have already enumerated in this thread.

If the options are "leave well enough alone" or "try and get things perfect and break the whole thing in the process," let's leave well enough alone. :rolleyes:

mikiiy · September 2013

Just took a look on tribble and i must say im shocked. Proportions look all wrong now, not a single costume looks right.

- Legs seem to be even more extrem V-shaped then before, makes em look fat on top and unrealistically small on the bottom.

- something must have changed with the scaling, shoulders seem to wide, hips seem to wide, torso scaling seems wrong, head seems to small... not a single costume out of my 40 costumes on my alien female looks alright to me on tribble atm.

This is totally horrible, they better not let that one hit holodeck.. it will ruin pretty much any existing costumes; i can't see a single thing that actually "improved" in any way..

Some quick before/after screenys:

Front http://imgur.com/4T9CV2H
Side http://imgur.com/apA73fs

futurepastnow · September 2013

Yeah, it's almost shocking how bad the female body models look on Tribble.

I'm not playing this game for the plot, guys. I'm playing it for the social stuff and to fly little spaceships around and, yes, Space Barbie.

Fix things that need to be fixed and leave things that are just fine alone. And yes, the female legs in tight pants are what needed to be fixed- to revert them to their prior state, not to make the other legs equally bad.

angarus1 · September 2013

Oh damn, that's just a bad look.

velarn · September 2013

This didn't even fix what it was supposed to fix, or at least I don't think this is how legs are supposed to look.

Also, another comparison:
Holodeck
Tribble

I rather not see any changes then this, this would ruin the game for me.

mikiiy · September 2013

velarn wrote: »

This didn't even fix what it was supposed to fix, or at least I don't think this is how legs are supposed to look.

Awesome screeny there, that totally shows absurd the change is.

kapla1755 · September 2013

working on comparison between 5 female character from holodeck and tribble with multiple views including what the slider bars for hip and leg bulk modify. should be done later today, but on first glance it almost looks like they stole the female character creator sliders from Never winter which is primarily why I don't play that game as the female characters look terrible IMO. also the 22nd century outfit is not availible in the character creator for whatever reason. personally the main complain with romulan/reman female legs was there was no inner thigh bulk like you would expect instead just the straight front to back bulk seems to increase unless viewed only from the back. Seriously just copy over the female leg model in the TOS miniskirt would have solved the issue. pics posted as soon as I get done compiling them.

kalani · September 2013

TBH I kind of wonder if this was just an issue where somebody accidentally picked up data from Never Winter instead of STO and it just wasn't checked kind of adding to what Kapla was getting at. I'd assume if a Dev had actually looked at that they wouldn't have called that improved or they would have added it to the known issues. Whats really surprising though at least to me from seeing these before and after shots is how much better the skin textures look.

rahmie1 · September 2013

I put together a couple characters side by side views current Vs New Tribble characters.
The heads are too small the bodies are scrunched up and the legs have thunder thighs with little tiny ankle and calf.

these are 2 of my character with holodeck and tribble comparisons

http://i.imgur.com/2C4ziM0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/y4uyQIK.jpg

I hope these changes don't make it to holodeck. It would take way to long to fix my 23 toons I would probably just stop playing and cancel my gold membership

cerritourug · September 2013

kapla1755 wrote: »

but on first glance it almost looks like they stole the female character creator sliders from Never winter which is primarily why I don't play that game as the female characters look terrible IMO.

You know what? Now I am worrie.. because seasons are mostly made to unified codes between cryptic games. So if this is the Never Winter tailor it could mean that is intentional and not a simple bug that is going to get fix in a few weeks.

It will be nice that the dev in charge of this could took a moment and confirm to us that he is aware of this issue and is going to work to fix it (or just revert the changes).

rahmie1 wrote: »

these are 2 of my character with holodeck and tribble comparisons

http://i.imgur.com/2C4ziM0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/y4uyQIK.jpg

Is worst that I could see using the Demorecord! This are the more graphical screen about how TRIBBLE is the tribble build.

futurepastnow · September 2013

What's worst is that unlike their very friendly and communicative ship and environment artists, I have never seen their character artists post on this forum, which probably means we'll never get a reasoning or justification for this change.

And it truly does look terrible. I was only focused on the legs, but the hips and torsos are completely unrealistic. And... why make the heads smaller?

kapla1755 · September 2013

Still compiling the rest:

Comparision shot Romulan vs Human Holodeck vs Tribble

It appears that "0" in hip slider on Tribble is analogous to "5" on the Hododeck atm.
Which means no more skinny or athletic looking Female characters unless you are fond of the "Child-bearing hips" look you are not gonna be happy at all.

It also does not fix the primary complain about Romulan female legs which was they were top stick-thin without any girth to them. It doesn't effect pants on Holodeck your legs fill out nicely while in pants, switch to a skirt and its "Oh what **** happened".

Was there a reason the TOS Nurse miniskirt model was not used for Romulans in the 22nd Century miniskirt? :eek:

The Default head size I normally use is "0" so this would seem to indicated the new head size on Tribble is "-2.5"?

cerritourug · September 2013

futurepastnow wrote: »

What's worst is that unlike their very friendly and communicative ship and environment artists, I have never seen their character artists post on this forum, which probably means we'll never get a reasoning or justification for this change.

And it truly does look terrible. I was only focused on the legs, but the hips and torsos are completely unrealistic. And... why make the heads smaller?

And that is why the game a Community Manager.

Maybe we should create a more apporpiate thread with a better title. Some one that has better domain of english could do it..

Is it too soon to start reporting bugs on the changes to character models on today's

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