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Non-Retroactive Nerfs
omegashinzon
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Ok, so first issue to address is what is actually a "fix" & what is actually a "nerf." It seems we are in a torrent of "nerf-fixes" at the moment so I will go ahead and define what I mean by both.
Nerf = Something that is reduced in performance or ability when original specifications were never given or none existed. Something that has it's stated performance parameters lowered in ANY way, even if something else is raised. A nerf to something broken is a fix. If tac Captians could suddenly use sensor scan III [a stated sci Captain ability] since season 7 and tomorrow they can't, it was "fixed."
Fix = Something that was broken as in not working at all, or not living up to/exceeding STATED design specifications. A "fix" that lowers performance or ability or capacity under the guise of "intended design" which was never stated or provided is a nerf. If you buy something, such as bank slots, it should never be "fixed" to not allow over 50 deposits/withdrawels a day because "that's not what we meant it to do." If you do, you are nerfing it. Period.
Now that that's out of the way (since clearly my definitions do not equal Cryptic/PWEs' definitions of "nerf" and "fix"), my proposition is this:
-Fixes (by my definition) are across the board. A broken item/doff/ship/console/etc gets changed exactly the way it does now.
-When it applies: X console says "+15 to X power system" when it actually gives 0, 5, 27, 115, or anything except 15. Later they fix it to be exactly +15.
-When it DOES NOT apply: X console says "additional power to X subsystem" and in reality gives +15 to +115 depending on some variable. Later they nerf it to be no more than +50 at any time.
-Invisible "intended design" arguments play no factor at all here. A fix under this system is retroactive (all consoles regardless of date obtained in these examples). ALL broken items should get fixed, not just the ones that provide an advantage.
Now here's where it gets interesting:
-Nerfs (by my definition) are NOT retroactive. If you own X item and they nerf it, yours is different and special from the new nerfed versions. (Perhaps a new icon to differentiate?)
-When it applies: X Doff gives "+1% cumulative hull dmg per torpedo for 3 seconds" What the devs didn't "intend" was that it would be used with Torpedo Spread 3. Now TS3 volleys are doing insane hull damage regardless of shields. But despite heavy outcry on Tribble server, decide to let it go live. Later, it is nerfed (NOT fixed! Since it was performing as stated. That is what TRIBBLE is for!) In this system, anyone who obtains the "OP" Torp Doff will always have an OP Torp Doff, no matter how Op it is. The nerfed version has it's text modified to include "does not work with High Yield/Torp Spread" and maybe has it name slightly altered. The original OP Doff is NO LONGER AVAILABLE but the nerf IS NOT retroactively applied to the old ones. (Problem? Blame Devs for letting anything that OP make it to holodeck, don't blame my system.)
-When it DOES NOT apply: X Doff gives "+1% hull damage to each volley for 3 seconds" but the Doff is actually giving it for 30 seconds. That is a FIX and IS retroactively applied. I cannot stress enough how important the STATED performance is here. Any attempt at word manipulation will render this system moot. Clarity in item descriptions and thorough testing pre-release are paramount.
Now there are upsides and downsides to this. Clearly, if the Devs are for some reason not adamant about getting it right before letting something go live, the first people to get certain items will have an advantage and potentially extremely valuable item later on. As they should. If you buy something because it does "this", that should never change. You do not buy a car because it gets 55mpg only to have the manufacturer show up at your door to "fix" your car to make it only get 35mpg after the fact because they didn't anticipate you driving "a certain way" with it. (-_-)
The obvious upside is you can feel confident that if you buy X ship, Zen item, Lockbox console, whatever... that you will ALWAYS have what you paid for. Or, if it is broken, it will be fixed. Sales of any OP item will explode because of this. If everyone knew something was "Get it while you can!", who would not try to get at least one? As it is now, you get it only to have it retroactively nerfed, which in turn, makes people like me not even bother buying it in the first place.
Side note:
I have fully refrained from using actual past examples and ask that any repliers do the same. PLEASE oh PLEASE do NOT start debating Valdore, the mail cap, Slavers, "exploits", or ANYTHING whatsoever that could and will derail this topic. I am speaking in pure future tense only here.
Edit:
In all fairness, this could also be applied to buffed items. Essentially causing you to replace limp items with the new enhanced versions. I could easily deal with that (and a certain amount of Dev manipulation) for the benefits of the former. Also, I'm not sure how this system would apply to Boff abilities, Zen Ship consoles, and the like. But I'm sure those details could be ironed out.
Nerf = Something that is reduced in performance or ability when original specifications were never given or none existed. Something that has it's stated performance parameters lowered in ANY way, even if something else is raised. A nerf to something broken is a fix. If tac Captians could suddenly use sensor scan III [a stated sci Captain ability] since season 7 and tomorrow they can't, it was "fixed."
Fix = Something that was broken as in not working at all, or not living up to/exceeding STATED design specifications. A "fix" that lowers performance or ability or capacity under the guise of "intended design" which was never stated or provided is a nerf. If you buy something, such as bank slots, it should never be "fixed" to not allow over 50 deposits/withdrawels a day because "that's not what we meant it to do." If you do, you are nerfing it. Period.
Now that that's out of the way (since clearly my definitions do not equal Cryptic/PWEs' definitions of "nerf" and "fix"), my proposition is this:
-Fixes (by my definition) are across the board. A broken item/doff/ship/console/etc gets changed exactly the way it does now.
-When it applies: X console says "+15 to X power system" when it actually gives 0, 5, 27, 115, or anything except 15. Later they fix it to be exactly +15.
-When it DOES NOT apply: X console says "additional power to X subsystem" and in reality gives +15 to +115 depending on some variable. Later they nerf it to be no more than +50 at any time.
-Invisible "intended design" arguments play no factor at all here. A fix under this system is retroactive (all consoles regardless of date obtained in these examples). ALL broken items should get fixed, not just the ones that provide an advantage.
Now here's where it gets interesting:
-Nerfs (by my definition) are NOT retroactive. If you own X item and they nerf it, yours is different and special from the new nerfed versions. (Perhaps a new icon to differentiate?)
-When it applies: X Doff gives "+1% cumulative hull dmg per torpedo for 3 seconds" What the devs didn't "intend" was that it would be used with Torpedo Spread 3. Now TS3 volleys are doing insane hull damage regardless of shields. But despite heavy outcry on Tribble server, decide to let it go live. Later, it is nerfed (NOT fixed! Since it was performing as stated. That is what TRIBBLE is for!) In this system, anyone who obtains the "OP" Torp Doff will always have an OP Torp Doff, no matter how Op it is. The nerfed version has it's text modified to include "does not work with High Yield/Torp Spread" and maybe has it name slightly altered. The original OP Doff is NO LONGER AVAILABLE but the nerf IS NOT retroactively applied to the old ones. (Problem? Blame Devs for letting anything that OP make it to holodeck, don't blame my system.)
-When it DOES NOT apply: X Doff gives "+1% hull damage to each volley for 3 seconds" but the Doff is actually giving it for 30 seconds. That is a FIX and IS retroactively applied. I cannot stress enough how important the STATED performance is here. Any attempt at word manipulation will render this system moot. Clarity in item descriptions and thorough testing pre-release are paramount.
Now there are upsides and downsides to this. Clearly, if the Devs are for some reason not adamant about getting it right before letting something go live, the first people to get certain items will have an advantage and potentially extremely valuable item later on. As they should. If you buy something because it does "this", that should never change. You do not buy a car because it gets 55mpg only to have the manufacturer show up at your door to "fix" your car to make it only get 35mpg after the fact because they didn't anticipate you driving "a certain way" with it. (-_-)
The obvious upside is you can feel confident that if you buy X ship, Zen item, Lockbox console, whatever... that you will ALWAYS have what you paid for. Or, if it is broken, it will be fixed. Sales of any OP item will explode because of this. If everyone knew something was "Get it while you can!", who would not try to get at least one? As it is now, you get it only to have it retroactively nerfed, which in turn, makes people like me not even bother buying it in the first place.
Side note:
I have fully refrained from using actual past examples and ask that any repliers do the same. PLEASE oh PLEASE do NOT start debating Valdore, the mail cap, Slavers, "exploits", or ANYTHING whatsoever that could and will derail this topic. I am speaking in pure future tense only here.
Edit:
In all fairness, this could also be applied to buffed items. Essentially causing you to replace limp items with the new enhanced versions. I could easily deal with that (and a certain amount of Dev manipulation) for the benefits of the former. Also, I'm not sure how this system would apply to Boff abilities, Zen Ship consoles, and the like. But I'm sure those details could be ironed out.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
Post edited by omegashinzon on
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Comments
No, that's actually where things get bad.
Yeah, I have changed "good" to "interesting". It's clearly up for discussion and debate whether it's a sound idea. Clearly, I am for it but I don't want to seem as if I think I know what's best for everyone.
Secondly, yes, some people would benefit. Alot. Motivation to buy stuff is how I see it, a win/win really unless you miss the boat. But I do see your point on unforseen combinations and thier effect. Perhaps a clause could be made to retroactively modify ability fundementals but not the abilities themselves. Like say with the hypothetical torp doff, he stays OP but whatever ability on the skill tree that's making him over the top OP could be nerfed. No one bought a skill tree (not counting respec OFC), so no foul.
Finally I was really hoping we'd stay off specific issues. I'd hate to see this turned into another double-tap debate so I'll try to ignore that part specifically. But in short; modify the effects indirectly, no problem. Modify the actual item/doff/etc, not really fair to do so after the fact unless an obvious glitch or bug in my opinion.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
More emphasis on improving the game than making things that don't need fixing and also fixing what *DOES* need fixing
Well said all around. The only real "higher purpose" for gear seems to be PvP. Which OFC is just about as broke as you can get. The only balance that exists is enforced by the PLAYERS THEMSELVES. At any rate, I don't want to get derailed discussing PvP even though they are largely the community that gets things nerfed or even fixed. Aside from the trading community, PvPers would be the second most (maybe even primary) affected group by this system so naturally it would need their approval.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
Yeah I love PvP but there is the problem with the way the topic of this gets thrown in there since there isnt a specific PvP balance everyone elses PvE experience gets hit if you do something in PvP that is really good to use. So a lot of people stay out of PvP just to keep their setups off the radar of the nerfs.
That's cool, this isn't about PvP but rather getting (and keeping) what you pay for. I just acknowledge that PvPers will have their own view of it.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
I'm appalled that anyone would think this a good idea.
ALL nerfs are fixes: they fix the GAME.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
We where given a certain portion of the game, to be used at our own authority. Before the Star Bases where added, even I used this to make us one for meetings and an intro for new fleet members. The Foundry, a neat system I have completed reviews for many times upon peoples requests. It does have limits but I've seen seasoned users exploit the resources to make some cool effects and locations for their stories. While it was for the time being, "you want more missions, make em yourself" it has instead become one of the coolest tools given to us in the game. Even if they where loose certain licences or decide to cut loose the game and leave it as is, we the players can continue to build it up more ourselves! One thing I will also give credit for is since players did do a good job with their stories and it grew in popularity, they added in bonuses for completing them, a daily mission for 50 fleet marks and 1000 dilithium...was epic! But not there anymore. I can understand cutting back the dilithium since it was abused, but the marks would be a nice come back added to a finished and approved story.
CatStar =^.^=
I think some items and ships in the game should be OP, like the Galaxy X, it should be able to fire its spinal lance like it did on the show...that was its only weapon i remember it firing so it would balance out anyways, it was more maneuverable then the normal Galaxy class to allow it to use the forward shooting weapon more effectively. I'm sure it would still get picked off in a PvP but in pve it would be a cool canon addition. Same thiing goes for the Scimitar, its supposed to be OP, just because the villain was a written to not exploit its full potential in "Nemesis" doesnt mean its superior design should be taken away from it, and if u buy all 3 you should be able to get an epic ship. I dont own ether, but it doesnt bother me if someone has an advantage over me in the game like that, its what they paid to have...and very cool to see in action, a player owned canon BOSS ship in the game! Every suit of armor has a TRIBBLE in it, every weapon a flaw...let your skills and ingenuity overcome your opponent, not whining to the devs to lower the value and advantages someone paid for, so you can still crow during a queued mission/pvp!
"I am Caitian! Hear me Meow!"
That's cool dude. You are entitled to your opinion. Just remember this thinking will apply to you as well when/if you buy a $50 ship pack they decide to nerf a week later and you are left with 3 pieces of junk. just sayin.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
Your suggestion is essentially to let some people who may or may not have intentionally not reported something to continue to use said OP item/doff/unicorn. These are most likely the same people who are in effect causing it to be nerfed (as it would be if they were to keep OP items) that then get to keep causing these problems to other players. Except now other players can't even use said OP item back against them as it no longer exists.
This is all without mentioning that new players will come, get roflstomped and then find there's nothing they can do. What do you think a new player who hasn't invested much in the game will do when they get completely pwned by an OP item that they can't get at all? Stay or leave?
What about if we confine it to PvE, what do you think a new player will do if they're 25-50% less effective than other players simply for being new and not having access to that OP item when it was OP?
This is elitism at it's finest and would lose Cryptic money hand over fist.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Yeah ok. I never promoted it as idea of the year. Anyhow, your in depth view is well beyond my "you get what you paid for" motivation. I just see ppl getting screwed out money by buying one thing and ending up with something else.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
I know it sucks when we get things nerfed or fixed and it makes once viable things less so etc. It sucks even more when you take an absence and come back to find all your top of the line gear is not so great. Though fixes and nerfs do have to be for all otherwise you do risk segregating the community and putting off new customers.
I can't remember seeing you around the forums for a while so I'm guessing you took a break and came back. I hope you're not finding it too off putting if this is so.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
New players have a lot more advantage to success/leveling/obtaining powerful items, the game is a lot better then when i first started to play! One or two items or a special ship isnt an instant win, even with my gear i can overcome many OP players!!! My last comment in the yellow text still stands as my opinion on this matter. For my fleet, I used to lead The Hazard team, a creation I came up with to train all volunteers who wanted to learn my tactics and strategies for beating any enemy or dominating a tough/impossible situation. Dont be so dramatic about loosing a match or mission, fall 6 times get up 7!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaRUXosYzyc
^^ This.
And, apart from all obvious objections others already mentioned -- including myself, LOL -- an idea like this is akin to proposing custom ship-skins: the stats of all still-OP/broken consoles would have to be transmitted to every other person/NPC in the match (subsidiary, be taken into account individually). Instead of calculating the known 'Effect of console X,' the system would now also have to factor in 'Effects of console X, owned by person Y, with stats Z.' Quite impractical.
Plus, certain stats don't just pertain to a series of individual database entries, but are simply the result of the way the game engine computes certain overall effects (like, say, Flow Caps), and can therefore no longer be re-applied in their old, pre-fixed state.
No, more like: if you bought a cable subscription for, say, 5 channels, and it turns out accidentally got 50, you don't just get to keep it. That's 'Civil Law 101.'
Just because someone benefits from something in the game that you don't, why do you think they shouldn't ether? Civil Law, that's a ridiculous statement, if you get extra shrimp in your meal or it tastes better then last time, the customer isn't a thief! Its what they put in your plate when you ordered! If the waiter comes out while you are enjoying your meal and takes your plate scrapes some of it off while your eating, would you come back to that restaurant?
People please, don't spend your entire gaming time seeking out to undermine others gaming experience! When we come here to enjoy the game, some of us after a brutal hard day at work, we want to enjoy the benefits of playing in this virtual world without the nastiness of RL buggers inflicting their spiteful attitudes upon us, if it doesn't apply to your gaming session, mind your business!
I hate getting onto people like this, but lengths that people go to in this forum has left me in awe. I picture Cryptic as a jewelry store and when someone buys a Rolex, a few people come out of no where yelling that its good for them so the clerk takes the watch back and hits a few times with a hammer then gives it back, "Patched update" then the instigators walk off smiling now that their work is done...they showed those upstarts, buying a better watch then them!
Wherever you look any digital item you buy is subject to change. You buy a movie and later they remove something due to it being extremely racist, it gets updated. The only way to not have it updated is to not connect again.
Books, buy a book from amazon on kindle and it will be automatically updated with corrections and alternate versions whether you like it or not.
This is just the nature of digital media.
As I said it sucks when an item in game gets nerfed but you also have to think of its place and impact on the greater system. You already have the advantage of first bites at the cherry by being here when things get released and as far as I can see most things that get nerfed are nerfed because they give an unfair advantage which will put people off playing the game.
There are plenty of very powerful combinations and items that are mostly exclusive, cost money or are hard to get that give an advantage. These are balanced in the system of the game and made so that the advantage given is either not without its downsides or it is not so great that it makes everything else pointless.
I'm just curious, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about something in particular, care to share?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
You DON'T own them. You are being allowed to use them in whatever form that happens to be.
Anything you have in the game is still owned by Cryptic, pure and simple. If they change it, that is their choice, no matter how much money you happened to spend on it. You spent the money on the ability to USE it in their game.
Now, if they were to suddenly take AWAY something completely that you paid for without warning or reason, and gave no compensation for it, then there's a better reason to complain. As long as you still have the stuff in question, you haven't lost it no matter how it changed.
The specifics where already shared with borgis, about certain items, but concerning other players, I see nothing wrong with buying advantages, that's the reason they cost money and some of them are expensive at that. If I want to buy a ship pack to be able to have a powerful ability/advantage over another player without it...and its available. Whats it to anyone else? All items are available to anyone who can afford it, it is a business you know, not a charity, buy it yourself and quit trying to ruin it for others!!!
Envy and jealousy is an evil path, just let people enjoy the game! If someone found a drop or won a code to get free keys as drops I would congratulate them on a cool find not try to have it taken from them. I don't like seeing other people trying to take from the game something another enjoys. We have to deal with that enough in RL, the virtual world is supposed to everything that RL isn't.
I guess I'm at a loss to explain it, I cant think of the words, keeping my eyes open after a long hard shift at work is difficult! Lets people actualy live and enjoy the game on their terms for once, we dont get to enjoy that in RL life as it is because another will always want to take it from us. Those types are like smoke in my nose and thats the bee in my bonnet! I myself would really enjoy having the TOS Constitution Class mesh/skin for any cruiser in the game as a costume unlock...why, because I might enjoy playing that ship, even if you dont!
Don't get me wrong I'm all for people having an advantage if they pay for it. The whole game works on that, you just pay in different way. You can either buy Zen with cash and get anything you want or trade it for that or you can pay in time invested in the game and get it through grinding and negotiating.
However there is a difference between having an advantage and having such an advantage that it is not able to be overcome by any means other than to pay money for something. For example the quad cannons have the highest DPS in the game, they're not good for PvP as they have no accuracy mods and they are not so much better that it makes all other cannons obsolete. They're a nice advantage that you have for paying for them. If anything they were outclassed by everything at end game and got buffed because the devs felt it did not convey enough of an advantage.
The point is we all get advantages for paying, some of the best consoles are all pay for consoles, you get a much better ship at your rank by paying and it will get you through content easier. At end game some of the premium items like spiral waves are still premium, carrier pets exclusive to certain ships are not made free to all, you still have to pay and they're damn good. Hell the JHAS was the most OP escort for a good 2 years now and when fleet ships came out they buffed it and all other special ships.
Without knowing what it was that got nerfed I can't comment but I'm sorry you feel this way. Not all nerfs are made because it's unfair though, some are nerfed because they're clearly breaking intended uses or gameplay, see BO and tric nerf.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Sorry for going off topic for a min, but like my sig. says it takes a professional Caitian to make the magic happen
I have an old "degraded by patches" Galaxy class refit from cstore back in the day, the only advantage it had was the pet but I dont use that in a pvp to keep my crew count. When that scimitar first came out it was OP'd and Caitian Picards ship tanked the whole session, it was unable to get past my build! Even with the super weapon!! It actualy took 2 of them and 20 min to wear me down, so it took a mix of being a season vet and having a good build, OP stuff is just the quick way....but the Caitian way will always be best! =^.^=
btw, the ship uses the old borg set....nothing new and OP'd for Defense
Haha; funny how you manage to try and make this into a 'jealousy' thingy. :P Yeah, no. You forgot the word 'unduly.' As in "Someone unduly benefits from something in the game." Essentially, what you want is to leech off Cryptic's honest mistakes. You're not getting your wish.
No need to flaunt your ignorance with the Law. The Civil Code and the Penal Code are two entirely different animals.
Hate to bring it to you, but this scenario is actually a textbook case: jewelry store, by accident, hands someone a very rare, antique watch, whereas he was suppoosed to get just a regular one. The short of it: you don't get to keep it. Sorry. The deciding matter being whether or not the buyer acted 'in good faith.' If you get a Valdore console, that clearly operates way beyond what's reasonable (for its price), just because the the devs made an obvious boo-boo, then no, you don't get to keep it. Deal with it.
I'm still exactly with naevius on this: it's appalling peeps even think this is a good idea. Self-entitlement at its ugliest.
I still say, what business is it of yours anyways, your not Q. Thank goodness your not a Dev. To make someone the bad guy for getting something better in quality then was intended by the seller is usually a plus to the sellers name! But it functions as it was intended. Or did before you guys got your way! I dont have that console and dont need one to beat a scimitar that has it. Its only OP'd if your not built to take it on, your nerf baiting is whats ugly. IF you purchased it, then yes, you are Entitled to get what you paid for, the scimitar was meant to be a boss ship watch "Nemesis", whining about something you can also buy doesnt change the truth of your mean spirited envy of anothers purchases! We dont need a self-appointed game police turning this community into a Gestapo ridden nerf fest. Get over yourself and just play the game and let others do so as well without fear of your kinds overshadowing arrogance! No one likes a spoil sport or bully! Have you ever noticed that people that think like you, are often the sneaky (Rob Snyder style snickering) villains in many books, shows and movies? We are here to have fun and enjoy the game and all it has to offer, leave the BS from RL out of it!
But I have a feeling you are determined to ruin what ever device you dont have, so that the ones you do use will still allow you to crow. Calling paying customers Self entitled with such distaste shows how spiteful you really are. Like I said before, even if someone had an advantage over me and i could never beat em, i would think it was a cool, not try to destroy it from under him/her I have better character then that! I dont need to display my ego in a game, because its just a game not my full social life!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvjCG_p9rl4
EDIT: And yes, im not unbeatable...I have lost before, even to another with an OP item, those andorian guns ate up my ferisans shields and i couldnt beat them. But it wasent the end of the world, and pushed for him to join our fleets FED vs KDF contest, so he could lead the team that my fleet was going against, since he was a stronge player....it made for a more epic battle overall! I think like Goku not Freeza!
You're starting to lose it a bit. Really.
And, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm a paying customer too. Never felt the need, though, to keep an item that was clearly way OP. And legally, much like the spoon, 'There is no console.' It's just game mechanics and stats, which Cryptic is free to change at any time they see fit.
And LOL @ me being "determined to ruin what ever device you dont have." And it's kinda cute you're thining I allegedly want to do so in order to win with the consoles I already have, apparently. Whereas it is painfully clear, from the get-go, the ony reason ppl want to keep their broken stuff, is *precisely* because it gives them an undue advantage!
Me being a dev would actually make no difference whatsoever: you would not get to keep broken, OP stuff; much like the current devs are not letting you keep it either. <-- There's your Q.
I'm aggravated at the fact that your patronizing attempts to make sport of me for standing up for fellow gamers, is funny to you. Because its nothing you invested into, I would imagine aside from just buying a console, they also would respec and buy weapons and what ever to build off of it. But from such a comment I can see what you are doing and I did fall into your thread derailment trap. Well played...
If both of you want to have this cat fight then do it in another thread or better yet create one to do it in.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Meh, I've been lurking. My lack of posting unless I'm feeling really motivated is mostly due to being put off by the amount of negativity here. Down time for patches are my peak hours. :-)
Haha, priceless. I get that impression too sometimes.
As a rule, I don't reply to "deal-wif-it" posters anymore, but in this case I don't think we disagree as much as you may have not fully understood. In fact if you go back and read my original idea again, you'll see that the situation you described would not apply. That would be considered a fix. I mean if you buy watch A, exactly as described, functioning perfectly, and get exactly-precisely that; then the watch maker comes to your house and smashes it with CatStar's hypothetical hammer. That is an after the fact nerf to the quality of something, not a fix. At any rate, the fact you and others don't agree shows it wouldn't be a good idea. Were I the one calling the shots, it would happen, but alas without universal support, my idea doesn't stand a chance. I'm burying this one in the "oh well" folder..
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
I can empathize with you for "being put off by the amount of negativity here." But, at the same time, I can also see why the 'negativity' is building up, as it were. Generalizing a bit, I think people find it unethical to see some folks wanting to benefit from honest mistakes on Cryptic's end: and the more seriously it's being proposed, the stronger the push-back.
To stay with the watch analogy, a Console in STO, unlike an apparatus in RL, is not an island entire of itself. Within STO, any Console which is in any way, shape, or form found to be OP, or otherwise greatly disturbs a balance, can no longer be said to 'function perfectly,' for that reason alone. Because, for a Console in STO to work properly, it needs to be in more-or-less state of equilibrium with the other Consoles. Call it a Core game Rule, akin to Kiri-kin-tha's First Law of Metaphysics, "Nothing OP can exist." Therefore, everything OP, per definition, needs to be fixed -- lest the entire game breaks.
So, within this framework where balance is a conditio-sine-qua-non, your watch, when found to be, you know, over-powered, is not simply 'functioning perfectly' any more, but broken.
From time to time, Cryptic will release a Console with OP stats; or an ability that now turns out to be too OP, as a result of something else that got changed. Attack Pattern Alpha is a good example: its "(50%) Critical Severity for 30 sec," since it was expressed as a percentage, now, IMHO, gives too much to Roms, who can boost CrtD insanely high to begin with. So, ever-so often, unanticipated side effects like this will occur. And I feel Cryptc is on perfectly solid ground, both ethically as game-mechanics wise, to simply adjust values as required to restore balance again.
They weren't fixed, if they were fixed you would still see them used, as it is they're not often used so I would say nerf. Now can you imagine the outrage if double damage trics still existed to those that were exploiting it?
As meimeitoo says you can't look at it as 1 item and if in and of itself is just powerful, you must consider how it inter plays with other abilities, consoles and special abilities. Sometimes something new makes something old insanely powerful when once it would not have been possible. Sometimes something new is affected by something old in a way that was not intended. Fix or nerf it does need to be for all no matter how much it rains on our parades.
For the record my wells was much more useful on my sci with tric mines and DPB2 with GW and CPB to weaken shield enough to bypass it. I miss those days as now I just have no reason to pilot it.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.