You people are complaining about a free ship and an OPTIONAL C-Store variant? So what if other options are "better" choices in regards to heals, tanking or dps, that's not the point here. The point is that there is a new ship option available for a faction that desperately needs more variety in its unique ships. It being "better" than one ship or another is irrelevant unless you are planning on buying it, in which case, DONT BUY IT.
Thanks Cryptic, I definitely appreciate your work on this Warbird and will definitely give it a try. Don't let the min-max kids get you down, you'll never appease them until you release a literal "Console - Universal - I win" and even then you'll only appease some of them.
well cryptic, this thread is fine example of powercreep coming home to roost. they arent happy unless a ship is overpowered.
how about a little perspective? compare this ship directly with the patrol or advanced escort, or the qin, and all the mirror escorts at the basic tier 5 level. what ship is dramatically better then all of those in every way? this thing. this ship can have whats proboly the typical station setup of a mobius, and it turns better, and it has a battle cloak, in exchange for a wee bit of hitpoints and when the fleet version comes out .01 shield mod.
trouble is the dhlean, moagie and tvaro are amazing ships i guess. and no fleet version? ludicrous. buying a tier 5 ship from the c store is only to get a discount on its fleet version and a console, no one is going to want to use a sub fleet level ship if they can help it. and given the other ship options, they can help it.
you made the fleet ship bed, stop struggling and lie in it. and release some more fleet ships already. especially on the kdf side, theres a ton of ship models still unused at end game that would make lovely fleet ships that could have all those missing station setup niches the kdf still lack and the federation have had for 3 years.
originating as a tier 4 ship, maybe this thing should get a 17 base turn, like the defiant has. that would give it something over the dhlean, a noticeable turn gap between it and the mogai, and have a beter balance of hitpoints and turn then the tvaro.
This ship is not about the T5 retrofit. T5 has no shortage of good tactical options for Romulans, that's why its spec, boff layout, and even console power are coming across as 'mediocre'.
This ship is about the T4 versions.
Choices of Romulan ships when levelling a Romulan are few, and the T1-T3 warbirds are nimble, escort like ships. Then comes T4, and the D'Deridex. A huge, lumbering space whale.
In the Federation and Klingon ship trees you have choices, not in the Romulan.
When I was levelling my first Romulan, I was anxious about reaching Commander rank and the D'Deridex, but I gave it a shot. I spent one mission in it.
If It hadn't been for the ability to use the Defiant/Sao Paulo ship of my Federation ally, I'd have parked my toon and levelled them through Commander using the doff system.
Kudos to cryptic for recognising that this is was sorely needed, and for offering both free and c-store versions.
Forgive me if I missed something,(or don't, I don't care) - but isn't the Ar'Kif superior to the only L30 leveling up ship I can see - the D'Deridex? (Well, not counting the Enterprise C, so there is that...)
I'm just sayin', if I'm reading it right, that looks like a sweet L30-40 ship for a Rom, without spending Zen...
Please reconsider ARC. Please make it optional, at the least. PLEASE.
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
I'm gonna have to pass on this one which is a shame as I like the look ... but the look isn't a reason to get it.
I already have money in other warbirds that do the various jobs better.
This one just ... isn't ... well ...... worth it.
Additional ... It didn't help that it felt like we were getting the casual brush off when it came to feedback on the BOFF layout.
Exactly my thoughts, considered buying it and really hoped for a Fleet version to sway me, but as it stands it's just another Warbird and I like the Mogai layout better.
Forgive me if I missed something,(or don?t, I don?t care) ? but isn?t the Ar'Kif superior to the only L30 leveling up ship I can see ? the D?Deridex? (Wll, not counting the Enterprise C, so there is that...)
I?m just sayin?, if I?m reading it right, that looks like a sweet L30-40 ship for a Rom, without spending Zen?
Yeah ... THAT ship is good. It's the T5 retrofit that's just not worth it to me at this point.
And I'm speaking of me personally.
It's not one that will drag me out of my vet ship or my little Romulan spitfire.
Well ...that and I've already leveled my Romulan toons. ... Tossing in that that lower rank flies by and end game goes on forever.
Aww as i said, the trible feedback wasnt taken into consideration and the ships went thru with the same crapy boff layout. Really surprising that there isnt a fleet variant on release, but there is still a small hope for a future fleet version with better boff setting, since the special console had a fleet variant in its description http://i.imgur.com/mp8y8Rg.jpg
And the Focused Singularity Beam seems is still the same with 20 secs, its just a really nerfed Javelin imo
This reminds me of the c-store mogai console, Ionized Particle beam console. Its sad that for the sake of change and diversity, a good console or ship skill from FED or KDF is twisted/nerfed/beaten to death until its turned into something allmost useless for romulans
My Romulan characters would have appreciated the Ar'Kif as a level 30 option . They would gladly trade in their D'Deridexs (and assorted limbs) for one now! D'dex was definitely annoying as the ONLY option.
There is a thread for feedback, and the feed back was overwhelmingly that the stats and layout of this ship were middle of the road and not particularly novel, or different from what is already available.
This looks like exactly the same ship that garnered that feedback.
I'm a bit confused on what the purpose of the feedback thread was for.
Its OK, a lot of people on the internet don't understand what feedback is, then complain that no one listens, because they confuse feedback with giving orders, or taking a vote, so you are hardly the only person who doesn't understand what feedback is for. :rolleyes:
What I find even more interesting is they did make some changes based on the feedback from the thread, but they don't listen because they didn't make the changes you wanted, right?
Quick address to all those people mentioning tribble feedback.
Just because someone seeks your feedback, does not mean they're going to, nor are they required to act on it.
Feedback is one of those words whose usage isn't always accurate, or people misinterpret what it means. Some people think that feedback means; consultation, debate, discussion. It does not, it simply means a response.
2) The Dhelan straight up beats the Ar'Kif. Identical hull, identical turn rate, identical console slots, better boff seating, superior shield modifier, and a two piece bonus that doesn't suck. Toss in a fleet Dhelan, and there's absolutely no comparison.
3) I agree that both the Ar'Kif and Ar'Kala are beautiful. That doesn't make it a more effective ship.
Excuse me? Energy damage and Energy Crit sucks compared to some evasion? They aren't meant to be the same ship and they go different ways.
Sure it has a slightly less shield mod than of the Dhelan, but is 0.05 really that huge of a difference? You can A2B and not have a practically wasted Lt Cmdr slot (Since almost anything Science in that slot will require Aux power.) and the extra tac slot for some more damage.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I'd like to know if it's going to be retroactively given to those of us who purchased the Legacy pack and added to the pack for future purchasers.
Barring for the T'Varo retrofit (get hit by a pebble and blow up) and the Mogai Retrofit (not a high enough turn rate for a true escort style ship, more of a destroyer) the romulan ships lack true escorts.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I'd like to know if it's going to be retroactively given to those of us who purchased the Legacy pack and added to the pack for future purchasers.
Barring for the T'Varo retrofit (get hit by a pebble and blow up) and the Mogai Retrofit (not a high enough turn rate for a true escort style ship, more of a destroyer) the romulan ships lack true escorts.
There is the Dhelan between them two and this ship has the same turn rate as the Dhelan.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Sadly I will probably sucker myself into getting the C-store option just to get those Quad-cannons. Have always liked the firepower they can bring, especially when they aren't on the original ship they came with. :rolleyes:
well cryptic, this thread is fine example of powercreep coming home to roost. they arent happy unless a ship is overpowered.
how about a little perspective? compare this ship directly with the patrol or advanced escort, or the qin, and all the mirror escorts at the basic tier 5 level. what ship is dramatically better then all of those in every way? this thing. this ship can have whats proboly the typical station setup of a mobius, and it turns better, and it has a battle cloak, in exchange for a wee bit of hitpoints and when the fleet version comes out .01 shield mod.
trouble is the dhlean, moagie and tvaro are amazing ships i guess. and no fleet version? ludicrous. buying a tier 5 ship from the c store is only to get a discount on its fleet version and a console, no one is going to want to use a sub fleet level ship if they can help it. and given the other ship options, they can help it.
you made the fleet ship bed, stop struggling and lie in it. and release some more fleet ships already. especially on the kdf side, theres a ton of ship models still unused at end game that would make lovely fleet ships that could have all those missing station setup niches the kdf still lack and the federation have had for 3 years.
originating as a tier 4 ship, maybe this thing should get a 17 base turn, like the defiant has. that would give it something over the dhlean, a noticeable turn gap between it and the mogai, and have a beter balance of hitpoints and turn then the tvaro.
This.
Thank you cryptic, the birds look great and I know a few people who are going to enjoy a new T4 Warbird to fly. For the record this ship would've been welcome in the original Defense of New Romulus instead of the Romulan built Ford Galaxy, the D'Deridex.
Now if you would be so kind, could the Romulans maybe crank an equivalent to the Vesta out of their shipyards...or maybe the Vault...
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You could of had $45 from me tomorrow. $45. Because you've decided to be incredibly dumb, which is really the only way i can describe it and not make a fleet version that could of easily been made in the past week we've been testing this, your getting $0.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in buying any non-fleet ship at this point. the 10th console slot is so vital now with the uni's that your tossing at us. And there is simply no excuse as to why this ship does not have a fleet version.
I am aware we are still technically in the 'Legacy of Romulus' but why does that mean that NO other factions get ANY Z-Store ships for half a year? Why not a Bird of Prey 5000 Pack for the Klingons... or a Fed Battle cruiser / Updated Galaxy X to come close to the Schimitar? Don't you think this would of been better received? (Or even if it HAD to be Romulan, How about a Science Ship first maybe?? something like a Warbird Vesta that Splits into 3, taking inspiration from the Multi Vector Episode of Voyager? makes sense to me that the Romulans would attempt something like this given they actually captured the Prometheus for a short time? Therefore were aware of the technology?)
Then AFTER you have appeased the other factions who are begging for a new ship you could release your mediocre Romulan escort to what i would imagine would be a much better reception. At the moment it just looks like something you found in a drawer and said "Holy TRIBBLE we forgot to put this in the Legacy pack!"
Also, is there some desperate need for Plasma quad cannons?... last time i checked people stopped using quad cannons as soon as they can afford either fleet cannons or EVEN regular old 'purple' dual heavy mk xii's?... This ship actually makes you keep sub standard cannons for the sake of 10% extra Plasma Damage... So... the set bonus makes the quad cannons as good as standard mk xii dual heavys? so WHY are they part of a set... it seems crazy.
Don't get me wrong the Romulans of course need Quad Plasmas at some point, But why on earth has this been the priority... Someone actually made the decision that a Quad Cannon Romulan Escort was the next ship that Star Trek Online needed?... Who made that decision?
The one thing i cannot moan about is the looks... JamJamz did a fantastic job... It is a Beautiful ship, But I'm sorry your wonderful work has been wasted on such an average ship.
Lets hope FED/KDF get something that comes anywhere near the Schimitar soon... Remember Cryptic... you started this arms race...
The article mentions that the quad cannons can only be equipped one per ship, regardless of the energy type, does that mean i'll be able to get the plasma Quads for my Fed/Kdf captains as well, or it is just the romulans that can get the Fed/KDF quads?
Calm down about the "no fleet version" situation. When has the fleet version of a ship ever been released alongside the standard non-fleet version outside of the massive Legacy of Romulus release? It's easier for them to fix any issues with the ship if there is only one copy per level. Wait a month before blowing a gasket over this. You can survive for a time without a 10th console slot, the world isn't coming to an end.
I would complain some more but its all free and not even feeling star trek much anymore so good job Cryptic you have done a great job making something that once resembled star trek lol.
I have been reading the feedback thread since it started and this is what I believe most of the players who took part in that thread will also be wondering.
What was that threads purpose?
Bugs the ship had for instance the customization, certain escape pods textures were not showing right, other things I could guess on was the console powers people who tested the ship over the weekend and beyond were trying to break it although I don't see that happening till it's released.
The article mentions that the quad cannons can only be equipped one per ship, regardless of the energy type, does that mean i'll be able to get the plasma Quads for my Fed/Kdf captains as well, or it is just the romulans that can get the Fed/KDF quads?
it means that romulans can use there faction quads cannons but can only equip one set on a ship, I highly doubt that the feds/kdf will get access to these unless a fleet version of quads come out.
Ok, a lot of people are saying that the Power Creep could be a problem here. I can see that. But this ship is not even on par with any existing ship. It is sub standard in design, this is why I hate this ship. If it were atleast competetive with other existing ships of the same Tier I would not be as critical. But it just forces me to think that the Design effort on this ship was wasted.
The ship is weak, in basic PvE it will be fine. In Elite PvE or PvP, she will be nuked a whole lot. Can it be made to do what is hyped about it in the Dev Blog? No, she lacks manuverability, speed, and a decent Boff seating.
The Power Creep does not have to be the issue here, but only good ships sell in large numbers. This one will cause some players to purchase it, then park it. Even a ship with a Higher Turn rate would have been nice. It just does not feel like a ship I want. So I will not buy it as she stands.
I like being on the Forums recently where I can voice my opinion, unfortunately that opinion is often ignored. Where as simply giving it a Lt Engineering or Universal seating would have made the ship good. Maybe even Great, who knows. But when they can not sell enough of these, maybe they will ask us what happened. Then we can link them here... See if they read anything other then "When Can I buy it???".
Comments
Thanks Cryptic, I definitely appreciate your work on this Warbird and will definitely give it a try. Don't let the min-max kids get you down, you'll never appease them until you release a literal "Console - Universal - I win" and even then you'll only appease some of them.
how about a little perspective? compare this ship directly with the patrol or advanced escort, or the qin, and all the mirror escorts at the basic tier 5 level. what ship is dramatically better then all of those in every way? this thing. this ship can have whats proboly the typical station setup of a mobius, and it turns better, and it has a battle cloak, in exchange for a wee bit of hitpoints and when the fleet version comes out .01 shield mod.
trouble is the dhlean, moagie and tvaro are amazing ships i guess. and no fleet version? ludicrous. buying a tier 5 ship from the c store is only to get a discount on its fleet version and a console, no one is going to want to use a sub fleet level ship if they can help it. and given the other ship options, they can help it.
you made the fleet ship bed, stop struggling and lie in it. and release some more fleet ships already. especially on the kdf side, theres a ton of ship models still unused at end game that would make lovely fleet ships that could have all those missing station setup niches the kdf still lack and the federation have had for 3 years.
originating as a tier 4 ship, maybe this thing should get a 17 base turn, like the defiant has. that would give it something over the dhlean, a noticeable turn gap between it and the mogai, and have a beter balance of hitpoints and turn then the tvaro.
This ship is not about the T5 retrofit. T5 has no shortage of good tactical options for Romulans, that's why its spec, boff layout, and even console power are coming across as 'mediocre'.
This ship is about the T4 versions.
Choices of Romulan ships when levelling a Romulan are few, and the T1-T3 warbirds are nimble, escort like ships. Then comes T4, and the D'Deridex. A huge, lumbering space whale.
In the Federation and Klingon ship trees you have choices, not in the Romulan.
When I was levelling my first Romulan, I was anxious about reaching Commander rank and the D'Deridex, but I gave it a shot. I spent one mission in it.
If It hadn't been for the ability to use the Defiant/Sao Paulo ship of my Federation ally, I'd have parked my toon and levelled them through Commander using the doff system.
Kudos to cryptic for recognising that this is was sorely needed, and for offering both free and c-store versions.
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
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I'm just sayin', if I'm reading it right, that looks like a sweet L30-40 ship for a Rom, without spending Zen...
It seems the vast majority of your most active players (forum regulars) hate the idea... and while that's a small subset of the playerbase, I think it's an important constituency.
THE PLAYERS DO NOT WANT THIS.
Exactly my thoughts, considered buying it and really hoped for a Fleet version to sway me, but as it stands it's just another Warbird and I like the Mogai layout better.
Yeah ... THAT ship is good. It's the T5 retrofit that's just not worth it to me at this point.
And I'm speaking of me personally.
It's not one that will drag me out of my vet ship or my little Romulan spitfire.
Well ...that and I've already leveled my Romulan toons. ... Tossing in that that lower rank flies by and end game goes on forever.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
And the Focused Singularity Beam seems is still the same with 20 secs, its just a really nerfed Javelin imo
This reminds me of the c-store mogai console, Ionized Particle beam console. Its sad that for the sake of change and diversity, a good console or ship skill from FED or KDF is twisted/nerfed/beaten to death until its turned into something allmost useless for romulans
the quad cannons is now part of a set.... will we see an update to phaser and disruptor quad cannons to become part of a 2 piece set?
also where are the kdf ships? namely the negh'var refit always talked about for what easily seems like over a year.... so erm where is it?
also where's the rest of the kdf fleet versions of ships???
romulans have seen a lot of ships added since may. I would have thought by now the kdf would have seen some love on the ship front.
Singularity Overcharge is on the T5 Retrofit. It's a Tier 5 ability.
Its OK, a lot of people on the internet don't understand what feedback is, then complain that no one listens, because they confuse feedback with giving orders, or taking a vote, so you are hardly the only person who doesn't understand what feedback is for. :rolleyes:
What I find even more interesting is they did make some changes based on the feedback from the thread, but they don't listen because they didn't make the changes you wanted, right?
Just because someone seeks your feedback, does not mean they're going to, nor are they required to act on it.
Feedback is one of those words whose usage isn't always accurate, or people misinterpret what it means. Some people think that feedback means; consultation, debate, discussion. It does not, it simply means a response.
Quoting pwebranflakes from the first post in the Official Romulan Tactical Warbirds Feedback Thread.
Nowhere in that statement does it say, or suggest, that any feedback you provide will be acted upon.
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
(Steam - feel free to follow/friend me : )
The BO layout is as mentioned by others a bit meh.
Seems like the only verison I will be flying is the free one from leveling.
At end game I have the best ship IMO in STO at the moment, the mighty Scimitar.
The Scimitar puts this ship to shame, and then some.
Anything the new ship can do, the Scimitar does better.
Still, nice looking ship thou, shame bout the BO layout...
Excuse me? Energy damage and Energy Crit sucks compared to some evasion? They aren't meant to be the same ship and they go different ways.
Sure it has a slightly less shield mod than of the Dhelan, but is 0.05 really that huge of a difference? You can A2B and not have a practically wasted Lt Cmdr slot (Since almost anything Science in that slot will require Aux power.) and the extra tac slot for some more damage.
Barring for the T'Varo retrofit (get hit by a pebble and blow up) and the Mogai Retrofit (not a high enough turn rate for a true escort style ship, more of a destroyer) the romulan ships lack true escorts.
There is the Dhelan between them two and this ship has the same turn rate as the Dhelan.
This.
Thank you cryptic, the birds look great and I know a few people who are going to enjoy a new T4 Warbird to fly. For the record this ship would've been welcome in the original Defense of New Romulus instead of the Romulan built Ford Galaxy, the D'Deridex.
Now if you would be so kind, could the Romulans maybe crank an equivalent to the Vesta out of their shipyards...or maybe the Vault...
Veteran ships need a fleet version too.
You could of had $45 from me tomorrow. $45. Because you've decided to be incredibly dumb, which is really the only way i can describe it and not make a fleet version that could of easily been made in the past week we've been testing this, your getting $0.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in buying any non-fleet ship at this point. the 10th console slot is so vital now with the uni's that your tossing at us. And there is simply no excuse as to why this ship does not have a fleet version.
Then AFTER you have appeased the other factions who are begging for a new ship you could release your mediocre Romulan escort to what i would imagine would be a much better reception. At the moment it just looks like something you found in a drawer and said "Holy TRIBBLE we forgot to put this in the Legacy pack!"
Also, is there some desperate need for Plasma quad cannons?... last time i checked people stopped using quad cannons as soon as they can afford either fleet cannons or EVEN regular old 'purple' dual heavy mk xii's?... This ship actually makes you keep sub standard cannons for the sake of 10% extra Plasma Damage... So... the set bonus makes the quad cannons as good as standard mk xii dual heavys? so WHY are they part of a set... it seems crazy.
Don't get me wrong the Romulans of course need Quad Plasmas at some point, But why on earth has this been the priority... Someone actually made the decision that a Quad Cannon Romulan Escort was the next ship that Star Trek Online needed?... Who made that decision?
The one thing i cannot moan about is the looks... JamJamz did a fantastic job... It is a Beautiful ship, But I'm sorry your wonderful work has been wasted on such an average ship.
Lets hope FED/KDF get something that comes anywhere near the Schimitar soon... Remember Cryptic... you started this arms race...
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Bugs the ship had for instance the customization, certain escape pods textures were not showing right, other things I could guess on was the console powers people who tested the ship over the weekend and beyond were trying to break it although I don't see that happening till it's released.
it means that romulans can use there faction quads cannons but can only equip one set on a ship, I highly doubt that the feds/kdf will get access to these unless a fleet version of quads come out.
The ship is weak, in basic PvE it will be fine. In Elite PvE or PvP, she will be nuked a whole lot. Can it be made to do what is hyped about it in the Dev Blog? No, she lacks manuverability, speed, and a decent Boff seating.
The Power Creep does not have to be the issue here, but only good ships sell in large numbers. This one will cause some players to purchase it, then park it. Even a ship with a Higher Turn rate would have been nice. It just does not feel like a ship I want. So I will not buy it as she stands.
I like being on the Forums recently where I can voice my opinion, unfortunately that opinion is often ignored. Where as simply giving it a Lt Engineering or Universal seating would have made the ship good. Maybe even Great, who knows. But when they can not sell enough of these, maybe they will ask us what happened. Then we can link them here... See if they read anything other then "When Can I buy it???".