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Undo the slaver changes!!!

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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    The drop rate atm is not the problem. The problem is the stats of these with say 6 slavers or interceptors 1 torpedo spread can completely wipe out the pets making anything you spent typeing about null and void if they can't stay alive and there is not much you can do with something so weak.

    Also reminds me of the transphasic issue where most of the time your average damage to a ship with a photon or quantum will do more than a transphasic does cutting thru the shields. These pets need to have some kind of self heals. I would just express that you don't get a gazillion heals to heal each and every little fighter.

    Edit: I find it odd that the real reason for the slavers being created was left out of that post.
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    aarons9 wrote: »
    guys keep making tickets on these..

    the devs say that the chance to steal was increased by 300%..

    they dont know that they screwed up and its actually lower then it was.

    Since LOR came out I haven't touched my klingons. Now that the new pet system nerfed pets (effectively your pets are level 1-3 most of the time and without forced spawns of live pets that means more time is spent recalling away from battle) and slavers were changed, I won't be touching my klingon Sci carrier again.

    Slavers were weak pre-slaver patch. Now, they collect half as much contraband and die instantly. The new carrier pet mechanics stink. Recall doesn't work during battle and out of battle, it's dodgy. On top of it, we had to buy a lock box trait just so that our pets would level at a decent rate. Please, remind me of how the pet changes are beneficial to the player base.
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    Since LOR came out I haven't touched my klingons. Now that the new pet system nerfed pets (effectively your pets are level 1-3 most of the time and without forced spawns of live pets that means more time is spent recalling away from battle) and slavers were changed, I won't be touching my klingon Sci carrier again.

    Edit: To be as nice as I can I will just give the devs some helpful advice. Launch 2 waves of a hangar at a ship that has the ability to fire a torpedo and then get back to us on how great this system is :)
  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Edit: To be as nice as I can I will just give the devs some helpful advice. Launch 2 waves of a hangar at a ship that has the ability to fire a torpedo and then get back to us on how great this system is :)

    Quite right. Torp spread or high yield instakills pets now. Has anybody experimented with the elite frigate pets to see if they can get withstand getting hit by torp spreads in elite stf's?

    TBh, the devs don't need to test anything. They knew full well what they were doing. The purpose of the new system is to nerf pets in pve and and pvp. Effectively, pets live less time and opponents can easily dispatch them with torps. The biggest mistake the devs made with the implementation was in assuming the system would work with the current commands. News flash: they don't. For all intents and purposes, the best way to recall pets under the old system was to respawn them. This was our only option because recall only sometimes works outside of battle. Did I mention outside of battle enough? Recall doesn't work in battle!!! So if your carrier has to hull butt out of a sticky situation, chances are that almost all of the stupid pets that remain behind die. Under the old system, no problem. Respawn them and you're fine. Under the new one, they lose all exp and you're left with pets that are much worse than the old ones until you level them up again. I guess the Devs forgot that the only working carrier command is attack. Fail.
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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    [SNIP] for lenght. :)

    Thanks for the info Borticus, this certainly will be good news for many people. :)

    My issue with the slavers since the adjustments has not been the rate/ammount they steal contraband, but as I mentioned in previous posts - pretty much anything. If I understood your post correctly, the new adjustments you're planning to make may sort out this issue. The thing is - I don't use the slavers for economical reasons, I use them as a single hangar on my FDC more for flavor than anything else. So I don't really care what they steal or how much as long as they do it continuously from time to time, so I get the effect of having slavers actually pillaging Orion style. :cool: They have been completely asleep lately, but I do hope what I just read would fix this.

    Also, I'd ask you guys to check the hull on these slavers one more time because many players were reporting that their slavers have low hull values, however I haven't experienced that myslef so can't really speak about it. Just wanted to mention this as well since you mentioned that after these adjustments you'll consider the matter closed, so we don't want to miss anything that might be malfunctioning. ;)

    Anyway, thanks for the update and for taking into consideration the players feedback in choices like these. Much apreciated.
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  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Dont get me wrong, I dont sell my contraband or prisoners I use them for Dillithium earning DoFF missions for that extra Dilithium boost THEY added to the game. If i need money ill sell keys! As for an investment, anything you spend money on is an investment and if you check the books I have invested much into this game, that itself should be flattering to any business, I have been a loyal customer for years now! But think about it, why do people buy slavers to begin with, its not for the poor hull hp or single beam array for combat lol.

    DRama: I used to earn 2 or 3 CBper daily run and id be like "yeay!..tomorrow I can start the assignment!" Now its like, wow...nothing...i shoul dhave bought the fighters with dps!"
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    Also, I'd ask you guys to check the hull on these slavers one more time because many players were reporting that their slavers have low hull values...

    We are trying to find time to perform thorough balance tests on ALL hangar pets as soon as we can manage. Which probably won't be for at least several months. This review would include both DPS and Survivability. It's probable that changes to something as specific Slaver hitpoints won't happen until we are able to review all pets against one another, and determine where their effectiveness needs to land.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Pet suitability is pretty dismal for most non-frigate pets.

    Any fighter class dies when hit, tholians bfaw spam make them completely worthless, their explosion likely does more damage to you then they can do to an enemy as they explode while launching.

    Shuttles can last a little while but tend not to be resilient enough when you hit elites or against tholians, they also aren't very decent or intelligent in any PvE at all.

    The different between basic, advanced and elite shield drones is pretty funny

    The type 8 pets.. does anyone in the entire game use these? Is the polarize hull going to save them from a tractor beam? Pretty sure thats not what got them.

    I'd save a pet balance is needed, there are clear winners out there and mostly losers.
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  • kublakhan81kublakhan81 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Thanks for acknowledging the issue at hand.
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    You mention a hangar pet layout...hmm. I have an idea, and I hope the other players don't shoot me for this. But what about a mini ship tier system for carriers for AI and special abilities that you want them to have, and/or allow your shuttle/fighters to use your current shuttles setup as its own ship set/weapon's setup: Lets say you have an aegis set in your shuttle with a beam array and torpedo, all of your pets will then have a beam array and torpedo using that same beam and torpedo you have installed into your craft, and each will have the aegis shield set, but the hp will still be light as they are still small craft and not star ships. Some shuttles/fighters have 3 attacks for this just ad in a phantom slot for pets on your shuttle/fighter to fill for these or you could also add in a 3rd weapons slot to existing playable shuttles...how ever you would want to play it. Fighters aren't hero ships but mixed with a giant carrier this will bring back the epic nature of what a carrier is supposed to be!

    Let me know what you think.
  • sulfrustriplesulfrustriple Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    We are trying to find time to perform thorough balance tests on ALL hangar pets as soon as we can manage. Which probably won't be for at least several months. This review would include both DPS and Survivability. It's probable that changes to something as specific Slaver hitpoints won't happen until we are able to review all pets against one another, and determine where their effectiveness needs to land.

    How can the community structure a test to gather meaningful data to assist you in determining whether fighters are meeting your design specs?

    DPS Test:
    Would individual dps logs of a wing of each blue fighter class attacking a stationary Bortasqu with neutronium armors and KHG Shield be meaningful? If the target is identical each test, it should allow for relative comparison of dps.

    Survivability Test:
    Would individual logs of a wing of each blue fighter class attacking a Bortasqu firing disruptors with BFAW on cooldown be meaningful? If the target is defending in an identical manner, it should allow for relative comparison of survivability.

    You introduced the new Carrier system on July 25. In the ensuing 6 weeks, problems of fighter survivability, an AI which continues to fail to avoid warp core breach, and inconsistent dps have been repeatedly commented upon. I would hope that Cryptic would not wait "months" more to give tuning these issues some priority. Basically, this is checking to see if the new interface "works as intended" that would be viewed as part of a Quality Control process.

    Please let us know how to be of assistance.
  • omegashinzonomegashinzon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    starakus wrote: »
    ... If cryptic truly were trying to *nerf contraband it would be as simple as increasing the contraband requirement for the security officer yet again, or remove him entirely. ...

    I predict this happens.
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  • havokreignhavokreign Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I have a combatlog devoted soley to my Advanced Slavers, since I got curious and picked up a pair anyway.

    At about 90,000 'swings' which I'm using to determine a rough 'combat uptime' (assuming 1.25 seconds per beam shot), I'm getting a loot rate of about .008, with 59 successful steals. Of those 59, 2 have been contraband.

    Raises lots of questions like, if the steal attempt has anything to do with weapons fire so hits matter at all, whether shields/hull damage is a factor etc.

    I'm also attempting to see the effects of flow capacitors (STOwiki), which if it effects anything, would be 'steal crew', and I infer looting is tied to attempts at 'steal crew'.

    None of which I can compare with elites, as I don't have access to them ;)
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2013
    How can the community structure a test to gather meaningful data to assist you in determining whether fighters are meeting your design specs?

    Thank you for the offer!

    Any thorough testing performed by the community is helpful. It still has to be verified internally, but it can provide us clues as to what we should be on the lookout for.
    DPS Test:
    Would individual dps logs of a wing of each blue fighter class attacking a stationary Bortasqu with neutronium armors and KHG Shield be meaningful? If the target is identical each test, it should allow for relative comparison of dps.

    This sounds like a good baseline for a test. Keep in mind that we'd need to know exactly what gear the Bortasqu had in every slot, all of their Rep Passives, Skills and Traits, in order to accurately quantify the results. As well the skills, gear and passives of the Carrier.

    Also, we're looking at test figures in the quantities of hours of non-stop fighting. We can manage this more easily internally by speeding up a local test shard (so 10 min passes in 1 min, e.g.). If you're willing to spend that amount of time on the test, you're welcome to. Shorter testing periods are prone to spikes of inconsistency.
    Survivability Test:
    Would individual logs of a wing of each blue fighter class attacking a Bortasqu firing disruptors with BFAW on cooldown be meaningful? If the target is defending in an identical manner, it should allow for relative comparison of survivability.

    Survivability is far less quantifiable. A ship with a PSW or TBR equipped can almost universally wipe out waves of Hangar Pets regardless of how sturdy they are. I don't think it's worth performing this testing until we see where the relative DPS results end up.
    You introduced the new Carrier system on July 25. In the ensuing 6 weeks, problems of fighter survivability, an AI which continues to fail to avoid warp core breach, and inconsistent dps have been repeatedly commented upon. I would hope that Cryptic would not wait "months" more to give tuning these issues some priority. Basically, this is checking to see if the new interface "works as intended" that would be viewed as part of a Quality Control process.

    You're talking about two extremely different and separate forms of Hangar Pet performance: Stats and AI. Don't conflate the two. While they each contribute to one another, behavior errors in the AI need to be addressed separately from any DPS parsing we may eventually perform. (And prior to, if at all possible.)

    As for your commentary on our priorities... Well, you're welcome to your opinions of course, but we do the best we can to keep this game moving forward with the limited number of hours that exist in a day.

    Don't rush a miracle man, sonny - you get rotten miracles.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Biggest issue faced right now is the fighter weight class of pets because in the subject of slavers they usually do not last long enough to even test out their mechanics. Most likely if a test is done increasing their survival in theory that might solve the problem.
  • sulfrustriplesulfrustriple Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This sounds like a good baseline for a test. Keep in mind that we'd need to know exactly what gear the Bortasqu had in every slot, all of their Rep Passives, Skills and Traits, in order to accurately quantify the results. As well the skills, gear and passives of the Carrier.

    Also, we're looking at test figures in the quantities of hours of non-stop fighting. We can manage this more easily internally by speeding up a local test shard (so 10 min passes in 1 min, e.g.). If you're willing to spend that amount of time on the test, you're welcome to. Shorter testing periods are prone to spikes of inconsistency.

    Ok, I am working on getting this running. Would running this on Tribble be more straightforward since it will remove rep traits from the mix? Tier zero everywhere for both attacker and target. Tribble also allows me to test advanced fighters since it doesn't cost me real dilithium.

    Data gathering hours is fairly straight forward. However given the survivability of fighters, would an hour of one fighter type attacking yield relevant data? Dead fighters don't level up. 5 minutes of fighters leveling up and 55 minutes of level 5 fighters that in reality don't occur seems to produce skewed data for anything other than RELATIVE comparison.

    It was amusing to break out the old anniversary event Bortas and get it running again. Watching it destroy all the fighters attacking in one BFAW was a lot of fun, but I suppose that's one of the primary concerns about fighters right now.

    Thank you for your attention to these issues.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited September 2013
    Thank you for the offer!

    Any thorough testing performed by the community is helpful. It still has to be verified internally, but it can provide us clues as to what we should be on the lookout for.



    This sounds like a good baseline for a test. Keep in mind that we'd need to know exactly what gear the Bortasqu had in every slot, all of their Rep Passives, Skills and Traits, in order to accurately quantify the results. As well the skills, gear and passives of the Carrier.

    Also, we're looking at test figures in the quantities of hours of non-stop fighting. We can manage this more easily internally by speeding up a local test shard (so 10 min passes in 1 min, e.g.). If you're willing to spend that amount of time on the test, you're welcome to. Shorter testing periods are prone to spikes of inconsistency.



    Survivability is far less quantifiable. A ship with a PSW or TBR equipped can almost universally wipe out waves of Hangar Pets regardless of how sturdy they are. I don't think it's worth performing this testing until we see where the relative DPS results end up.



    You're talking about two extremely different and separate forms of Hangar Pet performance: Stats and AI. Don't conflate the two. While they each contribute to one another, behavior errors in the AI need to be addressed separately from any DPS parsing we may eventually perform. (And prior to, if at all possible.)

    As for your commentary on our priorities... Well, you're welcome to your opinions of course, but we do the best we can to keep this game moving forward with the limited number of hours that exist in a day.

    Don't rush a miracle man, sonny - you get rotten miracles.

    That's a nice quote fom Princess Bride there. Sadly, it also says a lot about your psychology ... Which seems widespread about devs in general not just here.

    It seems like the original complaint of this thread is getting put aside. Surely you can confirm or reject the that the changes have dramatically affected the slaver % easily. Since it something you worked on recently I would assume you would want to verify that it works correctly. Kind of like having pride in your work thing.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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  • nx15nx15 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    This "Slaver Fix" is just another one of their methods to nerf contraband into oblivion, don't you see? They are trying to rob us of the best source of dilithium!
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited September 2013
    nx15 wrote: »
    This "Slaver Fix" is just another one of their methods to nerf contraband into oblivion, don't you see? They are trying to rob us of the best source of dilithium!

    You are probably right. So sad since there is already a daily limit on refining. Why make it even harder? I don't have this toy but I wish that those who spent dilithium for it get a functional feature.

    At least be honest about it if it is a nerf. A little sincerity and humility goes a long way mr. miracle worker.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Survivability is far less quantifiable. A ship with a PSW or TBR equipped can almost universally wipe out waves of Hangar Pets regardless of how sturdy they are. I don't think it's worth performing this testing until we see where the relative DPS results end up.

    I fail to see the logic of testing the DPS of something that has already exploded before it has had a chance to fire on its target. It is like selling your car to get gas money or buying a ship that goes into a never ending cycle of having to respawn without actually spawning.
  • lunastolunasto Member Posts: 774 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    I fail to see the logic of testing the DPS of something that has already exploded before it has had a chance to fire on its target. It is like selling your car to get gas money or buying a ship that goes into a never ending cycle of having to respawn without actually spawning.

    They tried to fix (nerf) something that wasn't broken, and ruined my favorite toy in the game. Now what ever happens, as this Dev. has stated, {your just stuck with what we leave you! So deal with it and shut up!} That's the impression I was given. :( Once upon a time, a host would try to improve quality and comfort of the service they provided, now they are worried about giving you too much. There are also knuckleheads among us that complain because they are given too much for their services, just like the kids who reminded the teacher to assign homework! Who would be dumb enough to complain about getting too much from a service or product? Don't turn cheap on us Cryptic, you have had too many good things going for you to let yourself go this direction! Think of the players, I prefer quality over quantity!
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  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Perception is reality. Even if Borticus says that contraband farming wasn't the intended use of orion slavers, it became as such and that became the norm, regardless of whether or not Cryptic could change the stats at anytime. Orion slavers were attractive because of the decent amount of contraband they stole. Without that, they are pointless, aside from using them for RP purposes. Each ship/pet in the game should be unique, and that was what was unique about the slavers, and that's why we spent tons of dilithium on them. There is no reason to waste any dilithium on slavers now as Doff missions can yield much more in energy credits and shinies and you're better off going with bops, interceptors or power siphons anyways. If Cryptic wants to be taken seriously, they have to come up with a better reason for removing the only unique aspect of an item aside from an internal metric being interpreted as slavers yield too much contraband.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    lunasto wrote: »
    They tried to fix (nerf) something that wasn't broken, and ruined my favorite toy in the game. Now what ever happens, as this Dev. has stated, {your just stuck with what we leave you! So deal with it and shut up!} That's the impression I was given. :( Once upon a time, a host would try to improve quality and comfort of the service they provided, now they are worried about giving you too much. There are also knuckleheads among us that complain because they are given too much for their services, just like the kids who reminded the teacher to assign homework! Who would be dumb enough to complain about getting too much from a service or product? Don't turn cheap on us Cryptic, you have had too many good things going for you to let yourself go this direction! Think of the players, I prefer quality over quantity!

    Funny thing is they think the old kdf players forgot the Orion Marauder/Orion Interceptor Incident that created the slavers so not an investment and being made for "Unique" purposes isn't going to pull the wool over my eyes... I remember things :)
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    [PARAPHRASE FOR SPACE]
    Lots of Pre-LoR, Post-LoR, and Proposed data concerning Pillage chance.

    While you're in a giving mood as far as performance comparisons, can we also get Pre-LoR vs Post-LoR statistics for Shields, Hull, and Defense scores? My pets really do seem incredibly fragile compared to Pre-LoR, though this may be the loss of forced respawns to repair the pets and the lower quality of the "fill-in" respawns relative to Pre-LoR/Rank 2 carrier pets. Since it takes 10 mins of combat time for them to hit where they were originally, these comparisons might also help us see where some of the issues are arising.

    Thanks :D

    [PS] Have you considered allowing a fighter launch to replace the most damaged fighters currently on the field, while carrying over their experience to the newly launched wing? I suggest this with the following logic:

    1) We can always launch another fighter, as long as the old one dies. This means that the limit is the fighters in the area of operations, rather than the actual number aboard our ship. Replicator technology is awesome.
    2) We have a Recall option. This means that we do have the ability to recover our fighters, according to the original Release Notes.
    3) Dead pilots don't learn, living ones do. By this, I mean that if we recalled damaged fighters and launched fully operational ones in their place, the recalled pilots would not only retain their experience from the last flight... they'd also retain it into the next battle if they fought in it as well. While having truly persistent experience for our pilots would be cumbersome and impractical, simply refilling the shields/hull of the most heavily damaged fighters should be doable.

    That's my little suggestion anyway. Thanks for reading :)
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  • omegashinzonomegashinzon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Funny thing is they think the old kdf players forgot the Orion Marauder/Orion Interceptor Incident that created the slavers so not an investment and being made for "Unique" purposes isn't going to pull the wool over my eyes... I remember things :)

    Do you have any links that might have official comments regarding this? [i.e. source] I couldn't help but notice multiple contradictions in his statement you quoted from so maybe we need to point back to "original design" for them. Not about pain points, yeah right. Because making it to at least level 20, starting a KDF toon, getting to carrier suitable level, obtaining said carrier, buying advanced or elite slavers, and finally using them in an actual mission of some type was not exactly "easy" to begin with. If it's not about dil than why are there 101 ways to make more ec in a fraction of the setup time? Anyhow, if you have a date appropriate link regarding their creation, that'd be great.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Do you have any links that might have official comments regarding this? [i.e. source] I couldn't help but notice multiple contradictions in his statement you quoted from so maybe we need to point back to "original design" for them. Not about pain points, yeah right. Because making it to at least level 20, starting a KDF toon, getting to carrier suitable level, obtaining said carrier, buying advanced or elite slavers, and finally using them in an actual mission of some type was not exactly "easy" to begin with. If it's not about dil than why are there 101 ways to make more ec in a fraction of the setup time? Anyhow, if you have a date appropriate link regarding their creation, that'd be great.

    Ditto. Elaborate more for us zeuxidemus001 please b/c I'm not buying the official line either.
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  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Im a little bummed out too. The mirror Vo'Quv was my first carrier. Blew all kinds of dil on pets (purple Slavers particularly). Man I was getting some great loot b4 the 'fix', so I didnt really mind that they played like they were made of paper. Now though . . . I mean the EC was always low . . . but seriously? . . . 100 EC . . . a common prisoner IF IM LUCKY?! What gives? WTF am I going to to with 100 EC anyway? I can get 8000% more lootz just setting up Marauding Doffs on my Kling! Whats the point?

    Argh. One thing Id like to see to make up for this is just going ahead and making the pets interchangeable. Let my Jem Dread have my rare BoPs for crying out loud. The game already says that I have quit my job and TRIBBLE in a bucket while being fed intravenously in order to have any hope in hell of getting 9999999999999999999999999 EC for a Jem Attack ship. Suppose it could be worse . . . could be Fed with a carrier. Still dont get why they have access to them at all though.

    Meh.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Do you have any links that might have official comments regarding this? [i.e. source] I couldn't help but notice multiple contradictions in his statement you quoted from so maybe we need to point back to "original design" for them. Not about pain points, yeah right. Because making it to at least level 20, starting a KDF toon, getting to carrier suitable level, obtaining said carrier, buying advanced or elite slavers, and finally using them in an actual mission of some type was not exactly "easy" to begin with. If it's not about dil than why are there 101 ways to make more ec in a fraction of the setup time? Anyhow, if you have a date appropriate link regarding their creation, that'd be great.

    Pretty much I mostly play the game but I don't keep records of forum threads i'm too lazy to do that :P

    Most likely the contradictions were likely that they were made without knowing all the information needed to make the statements that were made. All I have been trying to do is set it straight. Although the parts I agree with are that its not completely an investment. Its an investment in getting supplemental items so the statement in some areas is a right on assessment then again some of it just is propaganda.

    For the most part though they just need to change it back to the way it was or else we will have a repeat of season 4 again.
  • omegashinzonomegashinzon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Issues like this one is why all the old posts are "Archived" its a tactic for trying to erase the truth. Besides the whole making the old player base re-purchase the interceptors it was designed to be a supplemental investment to where you are getting something. Not to say its designed for farming but its suppossed to be for getting something rather than nothing.

    So bottom line some of us do not forget so easily and rather than make excuses they should find a solution to the problem rather than place blame somewhere else.

    Edit: Although at the time a lot of the devs we have now weren't devs then or much less followed the issue/may not even know what was actually going on with the KDF with this issue as well. So with the archiving as one means of not easily accessing that info there is also a chance the statements in this thread were made on the basis of not actually knowing about the incident as well.

    Right. Who are we to say what their intent is? This is why Bort's "It's not a conspiracy!" comment disturbs me. It could be simply the information he is being provided is inaccurate. Either way, I don't think we care. What we do care is these are not performing as they should. That is to say [virtually] no one bought these for their fighting capability and at some point, the "intended purpose" of their creation included a fair return on investment. Much as one creates a Ferengi toon for the discounts. I imagine if they reduced the Ferengi discount to .01%, similar backlash would ensue. It's a shame said posts are archived as I have been unable to locate even the introduction of Slavers in release notes. (Hoping something of intended design was mentioned) Either way, telling us something long after the fact does not make it true. We know why these were made, and we know they are paying a pittance of what they previously did. No compensation whatsoever was made. i.e. Less Contra but twice the dps or hull : Less Contra but up to 100k ec! It seems anything fun/profitable/efficient whatsoever in the game is eventually "nerf fixed". All this time and energy could easily be put towards making the game [mostly] free of bugs & more enjoyable which is almost never the case.

    P.S. adding more ships and consoles and doo-dads is not improving the game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
    So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Right. Who are we to say what their intent is? This is why Bort's "It's not a conspiracy!" comment disturbs me. It could be simply the information he is being provided is inaccurate. Either way, I don't think we care. What we do care is these are not performing as they should. That is to say [virtually] no one bought these for their fighting capability and at some point, the "intended purpose" of their creation included a fair return on investment. Much as one creates a Ferengi toon for the discounts. I imagine if they reduced the Ferengi discount to .01%, similar backlash would ensue. It's a shame said posts are archived as I have been unable to locate even the introduction of Slavers in release notes. (Hoping something of intended design was mentioned) Either way, telling us something long after the fact does not make it true. We know why these were made, and we know they are paying a pittance of what they previously did. No compensation whatsoever was made. i.e. Less Contra but twice the dps or hull : Less Contra but up to 100k ec! It seems anything fun/profitable/efficient whatsoever in the game is eventually "nerf fixed". All this time and energy could easily be put towards making the game [mostly] free of bugs & more enjoyable which is almost never the case.

    P.S. adding more ships and consoles and doo-dads is not improving the game.

    I did edit that one it felt a little too harsh even though it was the truth.

    Although from my experience with Cryptic whats happening is pretty simple concept. They give you item A to purchase. Once item A is no longer selling they will nerf item A down to a specific target stats and then come out with item B that is a little bit better than nerfed item A's stats. I am just assuming they think we won't notice and then take a shot in the dark to see if we forgot what was going on.

    IMO opinion though with slavers it should be a reward box type system where when they do steal something its a box for you to open later of random loot table items that are something decent to get but at same time not something to be farmed. Thats only part I can agree on with them it should be supplemental but not investment. For anything in a game with all these currencies though any mark, EC, dilithium etc is a currency and anything that has potential for more is an investment which ever way you look at it.

    Edit: So overall they need to fix the survival ability of these pets and pretty much of them all and then go and move on. For me I'm not calling it a conspiracy or anything I'm just saying I know what is happening and they can say whatever but it doesn't change much of the truth of the matter.
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