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Tactical Mobius Destroyer Build Help
jmazur
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
Hello guys,
I recently acquired the Mobius (finally!) and I've been searching throughout the internet for the perfect PvP build. I think my set up is fairly solid after 2 days of working on it. I haven't changed my skills since I switched from an Adv Escort so I'm not sure if they'll be out of tune with the destroyer.
Anyway here's my build:
Fore: [Advanced Fleet Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Dmg]x3 [Acc]] x 4
Deflector, Engines: Both Borg XII
Shields: Maco Resilient Mk XII
Aft: [Advanced Fleet Antiproton Turret Mk XII [Dmg]x3 [Acc]] x2
[Kinetic Cutting Beam Mk XII [Dmg]x3]
Devices: [Subspace Field Modulator]
Consoles:
Engineering:
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XII] x2
Science:
[Console - Universal - Manheim Device]
[Console - Universal - Assimilated Module]
[Console - Universal - Subspace Integration Circuit]
[Console - Science - Field Generator Mk XI]
(need to get XII Very Rare)
Tactical:
[Console - Tactical - Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII] x4
And here's my skill tree:
http://s358.photobucket.com/user/sickness335/media/Skills1.png.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s358.photobucket.com/user/sickness335/media/Skills2.png.html?sort=3&o=0
Any comments and criticism is welcome by any means. Thanks
I recently acquired the Mobius (finally!) and I've been searching throughout the internet for the perfect PvP build. I think my set up is fairly solid after 2 days of working on it. I haven't changed my skills since I switched from an Adv Escort so I'm not sure if they'll be out of tune with the destroyer.
Anyway here's my build:
Fore: [Advanced Fleet Antiproton Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Dmg]x3 [Acc]] x 4
Deflector, Engines: Both Borg XII
Shields: Maco Resilient Mk XII
Aft: [Advanced Fleet Antiproton Turret Mk XII [Dmg]x3 [Acc]] x2
[Kinetic Cutting Beam Mk XII [Dmg]x3]
Devices: [Subspace Field Modulator]
Consoles:
Engineering:
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XII] x2
Science:
[Console - Universal - Manheim Device]
[Console - Universal - Assimilated Module]
[Console - Universal - Subspace Integration Circuit]
[Console - Science - Field Generator Mk XI]
(need to get XII Very Rare)
Tactical:
[Console - Tactical - Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII] x4
And here's my skill tree:
http://s358.photobucket.com/user/sickness335/media/Skills1.png.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s358.photobucket.com/user/sickness335/media/Skills2.png.html?sort=3&o=0
Any comments and criticism is welcome by any means. Thanks
Post edited by jmazur on
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Comments
There are some things that could be improved on your build, however. Obviously, all of those points in torpedo skills aren't helping you with your all energy build, so you could save a lot on those to be put into more useful skills, and you could also pull your Weapon Performance down to 6 points (more than 6 points in a power boosting skill isn't really worth it), and probably pull some out of armor skills as well, allowing you to boost the skills you actually do get use out of.
Also, the armor is probably overdone, but I guess if you're planning to upgrade to embassy turn rate boosting stuff for PvP it could make sense to keep those slots available. It is a shame not to have a [Pla] console and the Zero Point Energy Conduit, but they're not going to fit if you want the turn rate stuff (although you could always get them and change some stuff out for PvE). Although I have heard some bad things about the Manheim Device getting people killed, which the wiki seems to confirm, so that might not actually be the best use of that slot.
Silly me, I forgot the most important parts :rolleyes:
Yeah I had a feeling I'd have to respec most of my skills, as my ship relied on torpedoes to do the most damage to hull. Should I put something together on Skill Planner and post it?
Boffs: I was second guessing myself when I implemented these abilities, so they might be totally off of what should be used.
Lt Commander Universal station: (Engineering)
- Emergency Power to Shields I
- Reverse Shield Polarity I
- Directed Energy Modulation II
Lieutenant Universal station: (Science)
- Hazard Emitters I
- Transfer Shield Strength II
Commander Tactical Station:
- Tactical Team I
- Scatter Volley I
- Attack Pattern Omega I
- Cannon Rapid Fire III
Lieutenant Tactical Station:
-Tactical Team I
-Attack Pattern Delta I
Ensign Engineering Station:
- Emergency Power to Weapons I
Doffs: I took the ones I used previously with my other ship and put these in temporarily. Someone mentioned I should go all "Chance to reduce recharge time on all Boffs", what do you think?
http://s358.photobucket.com/user/sickness335/media/DoFFs.png.html
You don't really need to, you have some points in everything I would suggest, it's just a matter of removing points that aren't doing you any good and putting them into things that will, with top priority probably being boosting EPS (for EPtX) and Hull Repair to at least 6.
These look pretty solid, although probably more so for PvE than for PvP. I'm mainly only familiar with PvP through hearsay, so it would be good if someone else weighed in here, but I'm not sure if DEM (Directed Energy Modulation) is as good as fitting an A2S (Auxiliary to Structural) instead for PvP, in PvE killing things that little bit faster is more important, in PvP you might really want the extra heal (or you might really want the extra shield penetration, but I think that's less likely). You'll also probably want to replace the EPtW (Emergency Power to Weapons) with EPtE (Emergency Power to Shields), in PvE you'd want the damage boost from EPtW, but in PvP people tend to have stupid speed and turn rate, so if you want to target them you have to have stupid speed and turn rate as well (and this is why the Bug remains the top escort in PvP, while the Andorians have pulled ahead in PvE). Otherwise a solid set up.
If you mean a Technician+A2B build, while you could do it, I probably wouldn't, you sacrifice a lot of healing capacity that way, and don't gain too much. So, from your current doff setup, I would dump the Technician (he won't do anything unless you have Auxiliary to Battery), dump the Projectile Weapons Officer (he's not doing anything without torpedoes) and get three high quality Damage Control Engineers to reduce your Emergency Power to X cooldowns, they should let you keep both running continuously (that will run you about 8 mil ec). I don't know how good those Conn Officers are for PvP, they may be quite potent, they may not, other things to consider for those slots would be Shield Distribution Officers to give a shield heal to your Brace for Impact or the new doff that boosts RSP duration (I don't actually know what that one is, unfortunately, and ought to find out since I'm thinking of using it on one of my builds).
Hmm alright. Which ones would you recommend I take out, and put those points into? Put them in mainly EPS and Hull Repair?
At this point, I want to go for a more PvP build than PvE. PvE I believe can only work in PvE, whereas PvP can be adjusted to work in both PvE and PvP itself. So I should switch Directed Energy Modulation with Auxiliary to Structural, and that Emergency to Weapons, to Emergency to Shields? Also just another question with that, is Attack Pattern Delta worth keeping? I'm not too sure if it's reliable.
Hmm so go with 3 purple Damage Control Engineers. They would have to be Emergency Power to Shields right? I'll look into those Conn officers, and hopefully other people can add their thoughts to this thread as well (hopefully this helps out other people as well). I'll look into Shield Distribution and this new RSP duration.
Sorry for the silly question here, but in regards to my weapons, Dmgx3 and Acc is probably the best pair? Or should I use some that go towards Crits?
Also, this link could be helpful, and possibly this.
Really, a PvP build is going to be mediocre to poor in PvE and a PvE build is going to be mediocre to poor in PvP, they're very different environments with extremely different metas. Don't change Emergency Power to Weapons to a second Emergency Power to Shields, you want one Emergency Power to Shields and one Emergency Power to Engines if you're building for PvP, with the Damage Control Engineers to keep them up continuously. I don't really know about Attack Pattern Delta, as I said I mainly do PvE, where I find that hull damage resistance doesn't do much good (and that's the main thing APD does), so we probably want a PvPer to weigh in on that, or you could double up on the Attack Pattern Omega instead, having two of those for maximum uptime is always good.
Damage Control Engineers work for all types of Emergency Power to X, just be careful you don't get ones that do something else, like buff Quick Fix (which is what the cheapest ones on the Exchange at the moment do).
[Dmg] is actually the worst modifier. In PvP you need at least [Acc]x2 to hit reliably, you can add a third [Acc] to that (excess turns into crit boosting according to the formula here) or do some straight crit boosting, or just get [Dmg] which will probably be cheapest (and would be all that's available if you're using fleet weapons).
And what I'm doing is:
- Removing all torpedo skill perks
- Put those into something like Starship Energy Weapon Specialization
- Put some in Hull Repair
- Reduce Weapon Performance down to 6 points
- Take some out of Starship Armor Reinforcements
And that's it?
I bought 3 Blue Dmg Control Engs for now, until I acquire more EC. At that point I'll definitely go for Purple.
Hmm really? I never knew that. I always assumed having the most damage bonus possible was the best. So perhaps I should switch it to [Dmg]x2 [Acc]x2?
Why not post your current build through stoacademy.com?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=mobiustacticalexperimentalpvp_0
Here are some side notes:
- I've taken it out on some PvP sessions and I've noticed it's really really slow and not maneuverable, especially for an escort that relies only on its front for DPS. Maybe you guys can help me with that
- Ever bought something really expensive then kicked yourself in the bum later on and regretted it? That's where I'm finding myself with these Neutronium Alloy Mk XII consoles, especially now since my fleet has access to the fleet versioned ones that come with RCS Accelerators.
- I definitely don't want to use the Manheim device in PvP. What should I use in its place?
- My fleet is on the verge of being able to purchase Elite fleet Warp Cores, so I've been holding off since, which is why you'll notice the Mk XI Rare Core.
Here's an overhaul for ya, take note of the fleet resb shields and plasminogen leech. Huge improvement for you
What are you power levels?
Doffs should be brace for impact and damage control
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=gorillapmobiusstf_2596
You should also check out this thread. There is a ton of information regarding escort builds, especially for STF's.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=295581
Wow, definitely looks better than before! I just have a few questions. Why RSP I and II? Would that be more effective than Emergency Power to Shields I and II, and Aux to Structural Integrity II? Same with Science, would Hazard Emitters be better than Transfer Shield I and II? Also, Rapid Fire I and Rapid Fire III really have no difference in DPS, do they?
Should I keep my skill tree the way it is then?
Xgorillapx, thanks for the link, I'll look read up on this now.
You're gonna think I'm crazy, because unlike every PvPer, I still use the standard attack power level. So it's set up as in order:
125/100
67/50
48/25
48/25
I've changed up my boffs several times to accommodate the new build several times before. I'm not sure if it's exactly correct though. I have 4 Damage control Engineer Doffs (1 being very rare, 3 being rare), and 1 blue conn officer (chance to reduce time of Evasive Maneuvers).
Thanks for all your help so far by the way
Why do you continue going around the forums pushing dual hazard emitter and dual reverse shield polarity builds? They are not effective in the least. Reverse Shield Polarity is a one trick pony gimmick, and usually gets the escort killed because of how often it draws the eyes of science officers. Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field and Transfer Shield Strength II are very important in a PvP setting for countering incoming damage. And you are suggesting 2x field generators, consoles that no PvPer would slot while also using an elite fleet shield. [Cap] in PvP is only needed for absorbing Alpha Strikes and heavy pressure. The MACO Shields and the Elite Fleet Shields have a high enough cap to the point where field generators are just a waste of console space. Fleet Emitter Arrays with [ShH] and [HuH] are significantly more important as they allow players to heal the damage dealt.
I'd suggest stacking 2x Fleet RCS Accelerator [AllRes] in your engineering slots. You may also wish to consider getting the Tachokinetic converter from the lobi store and placing it in a science console slot, it boosts turn rate and critical chance and severety. If you are looking for a way to keep up with other escorts, keep your Emergency Power to Engines I and also slot the Omega Force Deflector and Engines. If you do this I would strongly recommend either a Resilient or Regenerative Elite fleet shield with the [ResB] modifier to make up for the slight survivability lost. Keep the malheim device off of the ship. Using it in PvP is a death sentence because other players will simply target the "past version" of your ship in order to quickly destroy you. Consider replacing the field generators with the zero point energy conduit from the Romulan rep (bonus crit and power), the nukara particle converter from the Nukara rep (bonus shield power/power drain resistance), or fleet emitter arrays from the embassy (increases shield healing effectiveness. Consoles also have a chance to apply a shield or hull heal depending on what you choose).
As for the bridge officer layout, you have a good setup. A lot of players will run 2x Tactical Team, 2x Attack Pattern, and 2x Cannon Rapid Fire. There is a lot of debate between PvPers about 2x Omega vs 1x Omega and 1x Delta, but both are solid setups. The Science layout you have, 1x Hazard Emitters and 1x Transfer Shield Strength will serve you well. Engineering your Emergency Power to Shields I and Emergency Power to Engines I will help significantly. You may want to slot 2-3 damage control engineers (cooldown reduction on EPtX) and a warp core engineer (20% chance for +25 all power levels when using any EPtX abiltiy). For your Lt. and Lt. Commander Engineering abilities, I'd suggest either your current layout (Reverse Shield Polarity I and Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field II) or Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field I and II. With the latter setup, you could choose to slot a shield distribution officer in your duty officer window, this adds a chance for a large shield heal for the duration of Brace for Impact. When you do get an elite warp core, I'd suggest [W->S] for the mod, as this will increase your shield damage resistance. One last thing, if you go with Emergency Power to Engines, consider setting your engine power to 15 and dumping the extra 10 power into auxiliary (stronger heals). Just be sure to have an engine battery on hand to make emergency escapes. You have four possible power presets that you can custom set for different situations. Attacking/Hit and Run (50 engine power), Attacking/Resisting (50 shield power), Healing (50 auxiliary power), Running (15 weapon power, 75 shield power, 50 engine power, 50 auxiliary power). If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to help.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
2 hazard emitters to negate and respair damage and bring them to gcd. 15 seconds is a long time to toss a controlled heal.
No tss because I find the heal weak, the damage negation is alright
Fleet resilient for the shield buff and that maco dies not stack with leech. Leech buff is superior to maco.
Generators to boost shield further
Damage control doffs for uptime and brace for impact doffs for an emergency shield heal
My own critiques are the weakness to snb and lack of spike damage.
And my mistake if my flow caps didn't have the hull heal and shield.
Since you have seen my other threads you would know I'm a strict pver. I see issues in builds, pve or pvp. And voice some input on them.
For pvp, I go with sustained dps and survivability. Usually the safe bet, as you imply, I'm wrong on much of what I've said. It's what I feel looks good on paper that fuels my selections.
Sorry that my idiocy has gone on for so long
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
RSP is a decent emergency damage immunity ability, but it rarely has a place on escorts, and never with two copies. If you have a Lt. Commander engineering slot, then by all means, use RSP. Auxiliary to Structural, although the heal is small, provides a good damage resistance boost and only has a 15 second cooldown. And while Hazard Emitters is good, if you run two copies you are making your build very vulnerable to subnuke beam. The build you have listed above I could kill with a science vessel in about 30 seconds. You have too many abilities with shared cooldowns (2x Tactical Team, 2x Hazard Emitters, 2x Attack Pattern Omega, 2x Cannon Rapid Fire, 2x Reverse Shield Polarity and 2x Emergency Power to X). That's a perfect target when in a science vessel.
Wait for his Omega to drop --> Beam Target Engines ---> Tractor Beam II + shield drain doff ---> AP Omega I + Gravity Well I ---> Photonic Shockwave III to ensure hold -->Sensor Scan to debuff damage resistance by -62. Drop hyper plasma torpedoes on him, he uses Hazard Emitters, I subnuke beam, he's now defenseless and I have a 15 second window where he is powerless to do anything to my ship. And considering I use a plasma build his one shield heal has no impact. If only he had Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field, he'd be able to outlast the debuff cycle.
You have some good ideas at that, but be mindful that getting all of your abilities to global cooldown isn't always worth the cost. Sometimes it hurts your build more than it helps. If putting one ability on global cooldown kills another important ability it's not worth it. For example, if you are running a ship with Commander and Lt. Commander Engineering, with no Lt. Commander Tactical or Science, don't run auxiliary to battery. Auxiliary to battery works best on ships with mismatching Commander and Lt. Commander stations. You can get a small cooldown reduction on Commander/Lt. Commander Engineering cruisers, but it's really not worth the 3 duty officer slots, the lack of aux, and 2 Lt. engineering abilities. The auxiliary to battery slots take up positions where you could slot Auxiliary to Structural, the most frequent hull heal in the game.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I find that instead of having 4 DHCs, swap out 2 for DCs. They're on a different timer but the same DPS as the DHCs. It's quite remarkable how much less energy you'd waste doing that and you'll stay over 100 weapons power when spamming your cannons.
I do love the mannhiem device (I have it with the tipler on my mobius), it's just that it's better for quick fights due to cool down.
Dual cannons have double the fire time over dual heavy cannons, they don't have the innate +10% Critical Severety that dual heavy cannons have, and they are less efficient in power management due to their longer uptime. The age old arguement of DHC vs DC has been brought up many times before, and in each case the tests have shown that DHC are more efficient than DC. It's why Dual Cannons are dirt cheap, and Dual Heavy Cannons can sell for 9-25 Million Energy Credits at Very Rare Mk XII.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
1 - A number of people said "ZOMG! DHC's are 10x better!"
2 - A number of people said, that no DC's are better because their DPS rate is the same, however it gives you 2x the chance to proc due to firing 2x as often. (This is what I had thought)
3 - Someone did a test in a controlled settings to test damage of DHC's vs DC's. Here is the post.
http://deepspacealliance.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/game-mechanics-revealed-dual-cannons-vs.html
Basically it came down to the following...
DHC's do 2x more damage per burst but fire 1/2 as much
DC's do 2x more bursts but do 1/2 the damage
DPS is even
DHC's have an innate +10 critical severity bonus
DHC's use 20% more power (-12 power drain vs -10 of DC's)
It was discovered that the 2x firing rate of the DC's did not improve its rate of procs. Procs for DHC's and DC's were the same. This really took the wind out of the sails for the argument for the DC's.
This left one last question. Since everything else is equal, does the +10 Critical Severity make up for the extra 20% power drain?
The answer was yes. It is the +10 Critical Severity that gives DHC's a SLIGHT boost in damage over DC's.
However, many keep in mind that this is a very slight difference and DHC's tend to cost significantly more than DC's on the exchange. I would recommend those with limited resources to go with DC's because of this.
Now that fleet weapons exist, it's really easy to get a nice set of dual heavy cannons over dual cannons. Rare Mk XI [Acc]x2 Dual Heavy cannons are very cheap, and they will server you well until you can get fleet [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x2 weapons.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I wonder, if Romulans characters (with greater access to Crit-boosting BOffs) would improve the "slight" DHC damage edge to something more moderately noticeable...
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
What happened to the argument that dc drain more power per cycle? DCs shoot twice as much per cycle, therefore, they drain 20 while dhcs only drain 12. Was this debunked?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Got the Accls, working on consoles. I learned Dmgx3 isn't that great as everyone thinks it is at first glance. Which procs would you all recommend? Dmgx2 Accx2? The more Acc the better. Also, how about power levels, and skill tree?
Yeah, [Acc]x2 [Dmg]x2 is a really nice mod combination. The best mod combination for most weapons is [Acc]x2 [CritD] in most cases, you don't need any more than 2 [Acc] mods in PvE. In PvP, the best mod combination is [Acc]x3, followed closely by [Acc]x2 [CritD]. [Acc] is the best mod, [CritD] is the second best mod, and [Dmg] is the worst mod. However, two [Dmg] mods will result in more damage than say one [CritH] mod. For every mod on a weapon, the damage is increased by 5%. Therefore a very rare Mk XII weapon will deal 15% more damage than a common Mk XII weapon.
As for the power levels, I talked a bit about this at the end of post 15. The first three presets I speak of you basically have 100 weapon power with 50 in one specific subsystem and the normal 25 in the other two.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
While I've researched this a bit and debated this topic a number of times, I'm not claiming to be an expert. I'm simply explaining it the way that I believe to be true after experimentation and personal experience...
I believe this was being looked at incorrectly. The theory for 2x power drain would fall under the same school of thought that would theorize a 2x proc chance as well. (which was not the case)
It appears that the DC's fire 2x more shots per cycle than DHC's, but power drain stats appear to be based on per cycle, not per shot. This would explain why the proc rate is the same for both as well. So for all intents and purposes, it seems that the difference in fire-rate is purely cosmetic. What has not been clarified however is whether shots from the same cycle can both hit and miss (i.e. 2 shots in 1 cycle, 1 shot hits, 2nd shot misses), or if the accuracy is based on per cycle as well.
I made a little graph below to try to clarify it a bit.
DC's
1-Cycle
[(shot)(shot)]
-10 Power
2.5% proc
DHC's
1-Cycle
[((((SHOT))))]
-12 Power
2.5% proc
+10 CrtD