Sorry not done yet. We need to suggest ways to improve rather than just criticise.
So what can be done about it? Well the logical thing to do would be to buff science abilities again. This would be great if not for the fact they are buffed by tactical abilities that increase your damage and how shifted it is towards a tactical captain. Also can anyone confirm if damage buffs like omega and alpha buff the drains too? I believe they did at one point but not sure now as I use my tactical captain for lolz, A2B ftw.
So first thing to do would be to alter Attack patterns Alpha, Omega and Go Down Fighting (GDF) so they only affect weapons. Who would notice? I'm guessing only about 5% would notice the difference and it would not have a huge impact on the current game. I would however keep the interplay between -damage resistance and sci abilities damage as it affords buffing and debuffing of both damage and resistance to it.
Now we can start buffing damage on the damage focused abilities like Gravity Well, Photonic Shockwave, tractor beam, tractor beam repulsors and feedback pulse. It also means it's easier to balance as we won't end up with wildly different capabilities of ship captains (well except engineer, we you but you're mainly survivability) for damage.
What about the other skills though? Well a look at the tests done by the fantastic people who make this chart http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm shows that resists on skill points alone go up to 50%, you can probably exceed this significantly with consoles. If you compare this to damage and damage resistance there's a lot of difference.
You get max 12.4% damage resistance from skill points alone, so maybe we should bring the sci resists down to a comparable standard so you get only 25% resistance or less with skill points. Another possibility is to have resists as they are now but at 50 aux power it's only 25% resistance with it going up to a hard cap of 50% resistance at 100 aux power. This would mean engineers can automatically make things tankier due to how much they can buff power levels, make science ships and cruisers as resilient as they are now but making the fast nimble tacscorts think about their builds a bit more even if it is only to add an aux battery. Alternatively we can follow the damage resistance model set by armour and have consoles give bigger resists while nerfing those given by skill points into the ground.
Another thing that would probably help science be more useful would be to change what is affected by what skill. So rather than having 2-3 skills affecting an ability how about only one. Also how's about reducing that 6-7 skills affecting science abilities down to say 3-4. Countermeasures for disables, placate and confuse, Particle gens and/or Gravitron gens for holds, repels and damage etc and flow caps for drains. This will allow science ships to use more than one specific type of skill or spec wholly into science while reserving a bare minimum for engineering and tactical.
Science abilities also tend to have some of the longest cooldowns in the game outside of captain abilities and the only ability that does reduce them is lacklustre to say the least. Here's an interesting thread on PO btw http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=827501.
So some way to either reduce them by buffing photonic officer as suggested in the above thread would be nice or try to reduce some of the cooldowns to say 30-40s rather than a global of 30-40s and a single ability cooldown of 60s+.
Anyway the above is just food for thought. I would not think all of these need implementing but removal of the tactical captain damage buffs and it's boost to science ability damage should be removed as well as altering the way resists work would do a lot to sci abilities.
Science boff abilities are directly affected by at least 6 maybe 7 different skill boxes in terms of how effective they are. Tactical abilities are affected by 1. An argument can be made that by buffing weapon damage via the tactical skills you buff the boff abilities but you don't actually enhance the skill, only the damage of the torp (but not the base so the extra damage added by THY should be the same) one persons THY2 is the same as another persons THY2.
Tactical Abilities such as weapons are effected by at least 4 abilties in the Tac Tree.
T1 Weapons Training, T2 Starship X Weapons, T3 Targetting, T5 Starship X Weapons Specialisation. The problem is the lower abilities provide a boost all the way along.
Where as Flow Capacitors isn't helped by Particle Generators and Subsystem Decompiler. And maybe science abilities that use Flow Capacitors should have some damage bolted on via Particle Generators and effects enhanced by Subspace Decompiler.
Maybe Science should be changed to be more like weapons. T1 to enhance it, T2 to increase the effect, T3 to make it last, T5 to enhance damage.
T1 increases Gravity Wells gravity, T2 makes the Well Larger & Stronger, T3 makes it hang around longer and T5 makes it hurt more. The problem is I roll Particle and Gravitons together as well as Counter Measures and Subspace. Although Graviton and Counter measures are kind of like Torpedo skills. Some use them most don't.
Perhaps some behind the scenes math changes could be done so 3 ranks of Insulators counters 3 ranks of Flow Capacitors, meaning it hits like neither of you have skill points. But 9 Ranks of Flow Capacitors counter 6 ranks and still adds 15 more to it. But 9 Ranks of Insulators would have 15 more resist than vs 6 ranks. It would also make Sci Consoles more useful instead of just a place to put all our Universals.
As it is 3 Ranks in Insulators and Inertial Dampers and your barely effected by anything. Even if they have 9 ranks in Flow Cap & Graviton.
I don't think it's an easy puzzle to solve but I do think it's one that's worth doing because Science needs to be a competitive field even if your not using a DHC Vesta.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Science boff abilities are directly affected by at least 6 maybe 7 different skill boxes in terms of how effective they are. Tactical abilities are affected by 1. An argument can be made that by buffing weapon damage via the tactical skills you buff the boff abilities but you don't actually enhance the skill, only the damage of the torp (but not the base so the extra damage added by THY should be the same) one persons THY2 is the same as another persons THY2.
Science you only need 3 points in the counters to resist most of the abilities. 6 will grant you near immunity. There are 3 (5 if you count stealth as a counter to stealth sight and subsystem repair) skills to counter all of the science abilities. Technically hull plating counters exotic damage but it also counters all other forms which is why you put points in it not because of exotic damage.
Science abilities were buffed to disgusting levels by tactical captains for one shot uber AoE damage. This was addressed by nerfing the abilities so nothing but a tactical captain can get good damage out of it and even then why do that when lolz, cannons ftw.
Now is about time when people chirp up with science isn't about DPS. Not entirely, but your skills have to be equal to what you give up in damage in a damage centric game. Most people play PvE and not PvP. science skills have an almost laughable effect in PvE as everything has huge shields so shield drains are not effective. All power in weapons, 6 beams and FAW is better than using a full aux high flow caps charged particle burst and has more uses. Disables do very little, sensor abilities are nice but not needed and have you even tried to us GW on spheres?
PvP science abilities are ok. Little issue with holds being countered by all escorts with APO or EptE and once again with the 1:2 ratio of resist skills to buff skills.
Sensor ANALYSIS (not sensor scan or whatever else you people keep calling it) is a nice little buff and I like the idea but the reality is that it's too slow on build up when tacscorts go, lolz, cannons and blast things away in less than a minute. Couple this with how it gets removed when you change targets means that it's next to useless if you need to heal an ally or use a skill on another enemy even for a second.
6 weapon slots as opposed to 8 for cruisers and 7 for escorts. What makes up for that? The above sensor analysis and subsystem targetting. The latter is OK but it forces you into beams to use it which then means you must either have a largely useless beam weapon or balance power between aux and weapons on a regular basis to use all beams.
Oh and saying the vesta is a 10k DPS science ship, sure but it's the exception to the rule, not the rule. To put it another way, there are some female devs therefore there's no problem with games being sexist. Besides the vesta was designed to output more damage than regular science ships and make money off the woeful lack of punch science ships have rather than fixing them.
And to really demonstrate how bad science abilities are, do you think science is for healing? Would it surprise you to know heals make up only 16% of science abilities. Also there is only 1 resist ability too it's just they are all low ranking abilities that everyone can use them and anything else people can use is pointless.
Where's the like button on this forum?
You hit the nail on the head. That's why I've stopped playing with science ships. Most consoles and Passive skills (from the Special Task Force) level give you science abilities. Like you also said, they created the Vesta as a money maker.
I'm convinced Cryptic has no intention of fixing the problem with science ships. Just look at how the cruisers are filling in the gaps between the ship classes. No wonder the joke of "Escorts Online" lasted for so long.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
As much as I'd like to avoid bombing the OP, this post is inherently flawed.
As one of the earlier replies stated, the problem is not with science ships, it is with their abilities. Science ships, in of themselves, are excellent ships. They are the most versitile, most flexible form of vessel available in-game! There is a variety of science ship for almost everything. Want a Tactical Science Ship? Buy the Fleet Recon! Want a Tank-Healer? Get the Tholian Orb Weaver! Want to serve out a deluxe helping of spam? Get the Atrox Carrier!
There really isn't an issue at all with science ships. Granted, 3/3 weapons is IRRITATING, but its perfectly canon (science ships are SCIENCE ships after all, not warships). They also have additional sensor abilities (which are, as already stated, not as good as they could/should be) that balance out the reduced damage potential. They also have higher maneuverability then cruisers, while retaining stronger shields and higher modifiers then any other class of vessel available. Science ships are inherently as good if not better then many other classes of ship.
THAT ASIDE...the real *disadvantage* of science ships is in their ABILITIES. Sensor Analysis has the potential to be an amazing game-balancer, but it needs to take effect quicker then it does to be valid. However, the science BO skills are what really need a look taken at; for example, with Tactical, you can up your damage with Cannon Rapid Fire; its easy, spec into weapons, train rapid fire and your all set. With Engineering, you can increase DPS with Directed Energy Modulation; also easy, spec into weapons, train DEM, and your all set. With science, you can up your damage by...training Gravity Well, specing into Graviton and Particle Generations, diverting all your power away from Weapons to Axuliliary thus losing weapon damage, firing off Gravity Well, diverting power back to weapons....etc.
Anyway, you see my point. The problem with Science ships *damage wise* is in the available BoFF powers. And bear in mind, this disadvantage is ONLY in the DPS range; Science ships are still king as healers and/or harassers.
Finally...to the guy who suggested fixing science ships by reducing the cooldown on sensor scan...GREAT suggestion, but its flawed; Sensor Scan is a Science captain ability....it does not come on science ships.
Finally...to the guy who suggested fixing science ships by reducing the cooldown on sensor scan...GREAT suggestion, but its flawed; Sensor Scan is a Science captain ability....it does not come on science ships.
- T
still doesn't take away the fact that a sensor scan "brings your sensors offline for recalibrating" (because that's the only motive for which i can see a motive to not be able to spam-use such skill) for 1 min and 30 sec and its effect lasts only 20 secs.
Really, recalibrating after every single scan? Precision is ok, but this is way over headed.
Also, if the ability's effect last a little more then maybe it'd be a little more "efficient" (something like 5 or 10 secs more would be nice, specially on bigger targets).
still doesn't take away the fact that a sensor scan "brings your sensors offline for recalibrating" (because that's the only motive for which i can see a motive to not be able to spam-use such skill) for 1 min and 30 sec and its effect lasts only 20 secs.
Really, recalibrating after every single scan? Precision is ok, but this is way over headed.
Also, if the ability's effect last a little more then maybe it'd be a little more "efficient" (something like 5 or 10 secs more would be nice, specially on bigger targets).
You don't have to justify your suggestion me me! I agree with you 100% already
I'm simply stating that, as that power relates to science captains and not science ship, it would be better off on a thread re; the science career and not this one! Great idea, regardless. Might even be worth making a separate thread about.
Sensor ANALYSIS (not sensor scan or whatever else you people keep calling it) is a nice little buff and I like the idea but the reality is that it's too slow on build up when tacscorts go, lolz, cannons and blast things away in less than a minute. Couple this with how it gets removed when you change targets means that it's next to useless if you need to heal an ally or use a skill on another enemy even for a second.
That is correct. Sensor Analysis is a science ship built-in passive ability. Sensor Scan is the Lt. Science player ability.
And I agree with much of your posts about what is broke and more importaintly, how to fix it.
And before people start pointing me at "10K DPS" vestas, I directly mean lacking in weapon slots, out side of that i am actually more than happy with most of my science ships.
I just think they could do with more weapon slots. Espescially since they are basically stuck with beams - the vesta of course.
Thoughts?
Comments?
Rage?
They could use 1 more slot each especially the three slotters!
They could also use a secondary deflector slot which would improve damage all around.
We could also use a total redux of the entire torpedo system they have because half of them don't even function like they should anymore.
both the trans and chron should be piecing shields unless we're supposed to believe that everyone has temporal shielding on all the time.
And then there's the problem of weapons actually not receiving benefits from science stats like phasers polaron tetryon not getting the benefit of flow capacitor bonuses. I have a whole list of how they could be improved easily which would more than likely solve the "romulan plasma set only" and "beam weapons don't do anywhere as well as cannon weapons" issues this game has had for some time now.
and to talk about the quote above me, Sensor Analysis is extremely slow. I'm supposed to believe that my photonic doff, my andriod boff, and my borg doffs/boffs all can't possibly analyze sensors fast enough to get the job done quickly while im on my 5.5 sci ship with all borg XII gear (which would have borg enhanced sensors)?
As much as I'd like to avoid bombing the OP, this post is inherently flawed.
As one of the earlier replies stated, the problem is not with science ships, it is with their abilities. Science ships, in of themselves, are excellent ships. They are the most versitile, most flexible form of vessel available in-game! There is a variety of science ship for almost everything. Want a Tactical Science Ship? Buy the Fleet Recon! Want a Tank-Healer? Get the Tholian Orb Weaver! Want to serve out a deluxe helping of spam? Get the Atrox Carrier!
There really isn't an issue at all with science ships. Granted, 3/3 weapons is IRRITATING, but its perfectly canon (science ships are SCIENCE ships after all, not warships). They also have additional sensor abilities (which are, as already stated, not as good as they could/should be) that balance out the reduced damage potential. They also have higher maneuverability then cruisers, while retaining stronger shields and higher modifiers then any other class of vessel available. Science ships are inherently as good if not better then many other classes of ship.
THAT ASIDE...the real *disadvantage* of science ships is in their ABILITIES. Sensor Analysis has the potential to be an amazing game-balancer, but it needs to take effect quicker then it does to be valid. However, the science BO skills are what really need a look taken at; for example, with Tactical, you can up your damage with Cannon Rapid Fire; its easy, spec into weapons, train rapid fire and your all set. With Engineering, you can increase DPS with Directed Energy Modulation; also easy, spec into weapons, train DEM, and your all set. With science, you can up your damage by...training Gravity Well, specing into Graviton and Particle Generations, diverting all your power away from Weapons to Axuliliary thus losing weapon damage, firing off Gravity Well, diverting power back to weapons....etc.
Anyway, you see my point. The problem with Science ships *damage wise* is in the available BoFF powers. And bear in mind, this disadvantage is ONLY in the DPS range; Science ships are still king as healers and/or harassers.
Finally...to the guy who suggested fixing science ships by reducing the cooldown on sensor scan...GREAT suggestion, but its flawed; Sensor Scan is a Science captain ability....it does not come on science ships.
- T
Science vessels most prominently use science abilities, so my post is still fairly accurate.
Most escorts have better hull health and a slight advantage in weapons.
Yes science abilities need to be fixed desperatly but in a game where damage is king, more weapons power is better (minus the vesta with aux cannon)
Ships like the nova are science vessels, but the Nebula and Voyager are not science vessels.
The nebula was built as a succesor to the mirnada class using the galaxy as a template, much as the miranda was built using the constitution refit as a template.
Voyager as seen on sscreen was not lacking in the weapons department, and was a ship of exploration, smaller as it was not meant for faimilies.
The 4/4, 4/3, and 3/3 slpits between the classes are asinine. now most of the science ships, are in fact science ships, oberth, nova, and some of the others.
i believe a fourth class should be added that doesn't follow the trinity of weapons should be made. An exploration group. ships that are designed for their vesatility, actually used in versatile ways. The paltry reward you get from Sensor analasys is garbage, it takes too long to help especially since that is supposed to help science. but in most matches how often are you locked on a target long enough for it to fully build?
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ships are only undergunned if you expect them to be able to fight like an Escort which was designed for the task. Combat is not the primary function of a Science or Exploration ship. Therefor it can only be "undergunned" when compared to something designed for fighting.
If you want to get real, almost (with a few exceptions) any ship in game should have no more than 3 forward and 3 aft weapons slots, with at least one of each being a torpedo launcher. Anything else is OVERGUNNED.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Ok quoting is still borked for me so I'll just comment underneath to corelogik.
Your first part about them fighting like escorts is correct. We shouldn't expect science ships to fight like escorts and should not expect science ships to top damage all the time. I said earlier that our trade offs in weapon slots over the other ship classes should make up for it though.
One of the other problems which is not on topic but worth mentioning is that science ships are just not needed in PvE, an arguement that they're great in PvP can be made though and science abilities tend to be what allows kills to happen just as much as double BO3 alpha strike BoPs. Considering most people PvE, the lack of need for science abilities in PvE (outside of ensign/lt level heals) doesn't help.
I know there are some missions that having science abilities are useful and maybe one where it's kind of needed but most of these missions have the same or poorer rewards than other "deeps da best evar!" missions. What this equates to is people just skipping those missions or PvE queues and running the same few missions on alts as it's quicker for the same reward.
A solution is to make science abilities needed in more missions but to also increase the rewards for these missions as incentive to play. Another option which a lot also call for is to change the original missions so they are "harder" though people complain because "deeps int da best evar!? =S" in them if they make the enemies require debuffs.
Speaking of debuffs, as I said earlier does our science debuffs REALLY help the team do more damage or complete the objective faster?
Speaking of debuffs, as I said earlier does our science debuffs REALLY help the team do more damage or complete the objective faster?
Talking of debuffs, tractor beam and sensor scan are the only ones i can see as any kind of worth.
If then we want to count subnucleonic beam as something which debuffs (which seems more like an anti-buff skill rather than a debuff unless in PvP), then we're up to 3 worthy skills, of which 2 are captain skills.
- Tyken's rift, nah.
- Energy syphon, what for? Breen Set FTW!
- Charged Particle Burst, doesn't decloak not even BoPs, why use it?
- Tachyon Beam, the extremely narrow angle critically reduces it's tactical use (considering that somehow borg spheres can do it 360? wide, go figure).
- Viral matrix, 75% efficient against conventional enemies, -75% against borg (they have instant subsytem restoration + viral matrix doesn't tackle anymore the shield sub).
- Jam sensor, useless, besides being a single-target placate (the targeted enemy will not see you but friendly targets yes) it will still break after the first quantum torpedo straight into the hull.
- Scramble sensor, useless double-cut debuff, as borg are 1000% immune to it and if they weren't the first person to use a bounce-skill (e.g. Isometric charge) will be likely to be sent back to the sender.
FYI, Breen set is not end game worthy and its ES is only equivalent to ES I with longer CD of 1 minute 20 sec. It only gives you half of the drained energy.
- Tachyon Beam, the extremely narrow angle critically reduces it's tactical use (considering that somehow borg spheres can do it 360? wide, go figure).
Tachyon Beam has an angle of 135 degree, it has been changed months ago, along with many other skills. That's 3 X times wider angle than that of DHCs. Call that narrow if you will, Sci ships are generally agile, maintaining a 135 degree arc for merely 4 sec is not an issue.
- Jam sensor, useless, besides being a single-target placate (the targeted enemy will not see you but friendly targets yes) it will still break after the first quantum torpedo straight into the hull.
It also breaks tractor lock and stops an enemy from BFAW you.
FYI, Breen set is not end game worthy and its ES is only equivalent to ES I with longer CD of 1 minute 20 sec. It only gives you half of the drained energy.
Better an entire set of it's own than a wasted sci skill. (also, it can be used on power drain builds for ships who can't have a sufficient number of si boff skills for both self healing AND syphon)
Tachyon Beam has an angle of 135 degree, it has been changed months ago, along with many other skills. That's 3 X times wider angle than that of DHCs. Call that narrow if you will, Sci ships are generally agile, maintaining a 135 degree arc for merely 4 sec is not an issue.
135 deg? well, it's been a very long time i don't use it because:
1. i don't pvp
2. even if i used it the shield drain is infinitesimal on anything bigger than a mirror light cruiser.
It also breaks tractor lock and stops an enemy from BFAW you.
doesn't take away the fact that as an E-War skill it absolutely sucks.
You are forgetting Gravity Well, Feedback Pulse
those are not debuffs, they are offensive (gravity well) and defensive (feedback pulse) skills, which can be turned into debuffs only throught doffs, and by sci debuffs it was originally meant the skills themselves, not the eventual variation thanks to the doffs.
Tachyon Beam has an angle of 135 degree, it has been changed months ago, along with many other skills. That's 3 X times wider angle than that of DHCs. Call that narrow if you will, Sci ships are generally agile, maintaining a 135 degree arc for merely 4 sec is not an issue.
Maybe once it activates, it continues while in that arc range, but everytime I want to first activate it, the arc range was 60 (same firing arc as Dual Beams or torpedos). An arc of 135 seems a little funky when weapons arcs are either 30,60,180, 300, or 360.
Ships are only undergunned if you expect them to be able to fight like an Escort which was designed for the task. Combat is not the primary function of a Science or Exploration ship. Therefor it can only be "undergunned" when compared to something designed for fighting.
If you want to get real, almost (with a few exceptions) any ship in game should have no more than 3 forward and 3 aft weapons slots, with at least one of each being a torpedo launcher. Anything else is OVERGUNNED.
Bro...after you try a vesta your thinking will change. Trust me, it'll make your ePeen 12 inches longer (if you're a female it'll increase your bust by two cup sizes). I fly my vesta (and armed it) just like I did my Heavy Escort Refit (Heavy Escort Refit). I have yet to meet a ship that I COULDN'T keep in front of my dual heavy Heavy Cannons + Beam Array + Har'Peng torpedo. Plus my Turret in the rear as my 4th forward facing weapon.
As I was told on another post (and I agree 1,000%), the Vesta is the best Science / Tactical ship on the game. During STF's I can heal teammates, launch my Scorpions, keep up with those trigger happy escorts and do a good amount of damage.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Bro...after you try a vesta your thinking will change. Trust me, it'll make your ePeen 12 inches longer (if you're a female it'll increase your bust by two cup sizes). I fly my vesta (and armed it) just like I did my Heavy Escort Refit (Heavy Escort Refit). I have yet to meet a ship that I COULDN'T keep in front of my dual heavy Heavy Cannons + Beam Array + Har'Peng torpedo. Plus my Turret in the rear as my 4th forward facing weapon.
In PvE, maybe, in PvP, lol no.
As I was told on another post (and I agree 1,000%), the Vesta is the best Science / Tactical ship on the game. During STF's I can heal teammates, launch my Scorpions, keep up with those trigger happy escorts and do a good amount of damage.
Best Science vessel? Not by a long shot. To start, it has significantly less shielding than all Fleet Science vessels, that's a good 6-7 of them. Its hull is among the weakest, barely higher than a Klingon BoP which is infinitely faster and more agile + battlecloak. Its turn rate is a barely passable 12, and a impulse modifier of merely 15, which is slower than even the Scimitar. Pets are irrelevant for the most part. Finally, for a true Science vessel having to waste any boff seating on tactical stations just isn't a good idea. All the fancy Vesta consoles are just big waste of time, with long cooldown, good once every 3 minutes.
You are either going to be out Sci or out Tact by a true Science vessel or a real Escort. Remember, a ship that is neither Sci nor Tact is an in-between which means it's not the best in anything and therefore, forgettable.
Iskandus, what was the official Cryptic figures for percentage of players that PvP?
Sorry couldn't resist =D
Saying the vesta is the best science ship, I agree it is not, it's a cash grab as I said earlier in the thread. It's still a good ship and the aux DHC are amazing while the consoles can be nice sometimes though I used it more for racing than anything else.
I find your last comment incredibly short sighted and just plain wrong tbh. Saying hybrids are forgettable (remember more people PvE than PvP) is like saying that any form of experimentation is rubbish and we should just have "pure" science, tactical and engineering ships or else they're forgettable.
I hate using dedicated science and cruisers in pve I mean less DPS means it takes longer. In pve its often more of a team play thing.
From a PVP perspective a dedicated science vessel in 1v1 combat should not have high DPS. Its a bad mindset. You overcome your enemy by mitigating their ability to do damage making your weak hull irrelevant. You subdue their ability to heal making your weapons capability less of an issue. In the end it takes longer. But its all about holding them down and methodically TRIBBLE them.
That said I have become a phased polaron hooker recently. Mitigate mitigate mitigate.
I hate using dedicated science and cruisers in pve I mean less DPS means it takes longer. In pve its often more of a team play thing.
From a PVP perspective a dedicated science vessel in 1v1 combat should not have high DPS. Its a bad mindset. You overcome your enemy by mitigating their ability to do damage making your weak hull irrelevant. You subdue their ability to heal making your weapons capability less of an issue. In the end it takes longer. But its all about holding them down and methodically TRIBBLE them.
That said I have become a phased polaron hooker recently. Mitigate mitigate mitigate.
While I hate the sexual violence reference, I do agree with our assesment of how science ships should work. I will just use a different way of explaining it: Science ships work to disable, disarm, and negate an opponent. Like you said, you don't win by dishing out lost of damage, you win by long term attrition. You still heal while they slowly bleed out. Death by a thousand cuts, as it were.
Iskandus, what was the official Cryptic figures for percentage of players that PvP?
Sorry couldn't resist =D
Let me ask you this: What percent of people are TRIBBLE? What percent of people are racial minorities? What percent of people are disabled & require accommodation in workplace?
Why should societies have anti-discrimination law given any of the above mentioned group is only a small minority, using your logic? (or lack of, sorry couldn't resist )
Let's face it, Cryptic is not a charity, it is in business to make money. When they released the Subspace Rupture Console and it broke PvP, Cryptic rapidly fixed it within days even though there wasn't much complaint from the PvE crowd. So what can we learn from this? Let me be just as blunt here , the "We are holier than thou attitude" is uncalled for.
The fact is opinion is like nose, everyone has one. I stated my point of view. Feel free to disagree. Someone who only wants to play story missions over and over can do it using a Ferengi garbage scout ship, no need for a Vesta. You are more than welcome to disagree and disregard my opinion, but please do so politely. Calling someone "incredibly short sighted" is very impolite and not conducive to a constructive discussion. Then you proceed to misrepresent my comment and twist my words into things I never said. Suffice to say, I am not happy right now. I realize many are kids here, but I am an adult - if you are a kid, please be polite or you will find yourself eternally ignored very quickly.
Science vessels don't need more weapons, science vessels need their abilities un-nerfed.
+1 for that.
Problem being, it's been something that's been realized way back at the step from P2P to F2P. and that cryptic has been overlooking by saying "well, at least we got you more zen sci ships!" (like if the vesta was an actual sci ship.... it's just a heavy escort carrier masked as a sci ship, nothing more.)
Why do people always say Science ships are for healing?! Hazard Emitters, you say? They're dependent on Aux levels, not sci skills. Transfer Shield Strength, you say? Everyone has 100% Shield Emitters! Your Science Fleet is countered by my Engineering Team. Sure, there's Scattering Field; but to your Scattering Field I place my Engineering Fleet. And do your sci boffs have Extend Shields?! I thought not.
My point being: I could make a cogent case out of stating Engineers are more useful for healing than Science Captains.
I'm all for buffing Science, btw. As an Engineer, I fly many Science ships: Orb Weavers, Recluse, Vesta, etc. And I *love* Science-y stuff, really! In fact, nowadays I kinda refuse to fly one of my many Escorts, as they're just cookie-cutter boring -- and out of silent protest against Escorts Online.
And yes, Science ships are weaker when it comes to contributing (in PvE). Sure, I can drain a Sphere dry within seconds; but nothing ever beats Escorts killing everything within 10 seconds. The truly sad part is, that 'pew-pew' sells; and Cryptic itself has sold out to greed. Ergo, they're not gonna fix Science, ever. Or do I sound too bitter now?
but nothing ever beats Escorts killing everything within 10 seconds.
Yeah I know, it's a shame really. For a game that has so much focus on the combat it does seem oddly obsessed with having fights finish as soon as humanly possible.
This is why I like being an engineer, and flying cruisers. And why I also haven't keybinded any abilites or touched fleet gear at all.
I've not touched science as a career yet, but for these reasons I don't think I'd mind sticking with a 6 beam boat. It'd be just like the cruisers I fly now just without the torpedoes, which do negligible damage at the best of times thanks to slivers of shield facings.
I would also agree that sci abilities should be un-nerfed. Though I'm in no position to say so myself it's an opinion shared by friends and fleeties I know who fly sci.
They will never buff science ships as they are already deadly in PVP any alterations will make them op
Granted in pve they suck I don't see a way of fixing this withou TRIBBLE PVP up
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Best Science vessel? Not by a long shot. To start, it has significantly less shielding than all Fleet Science vessels, that's a good 6-7 of them. Its hull is among the weakest, barely higher than a Klingon BoP which is infinitely faster and more agile + battlecloak. Its turn rate is a barely passable 12, and a impulse modifier of merely 15, which is slower than even the Scimitar. Pets are irrelevant for the most part. Finally, for a true Science vessel having to waste any boff seating on tactical stations just isn't a good idea. All the fancy Vesta consoles are just big waste of time, with long cooldown, good once every 3 minutes.
Vesta is a great ship! I fly a very sturdy, agile Vesta:
Even with no resist mods at all, I'm often the last one standing. It has wicked resists across the board (in combination with Sha-Voran doff, that is): up to 67% All Dmg (for brief periods; usually between 41%-54%). And it can drain like crazy! And comes with 2x Tractors and Web Mine.
Granted, it's not the best Science vessel, per se. But you're dismissng the Vesta way too easily.
Thanks for the link. I don't understand why you have 3 copies of Aux to Dampeners...
Even with no resist mods at all, I'm often the last one standing. It has wicked resists across the board (in combination with Sha-Voran doff, that is): up to 67% All Dmg (for brief periods; usually between 41%-54%). And it can drain like crazy! And comes with 2x Tractors and Web Mine.
Your build has no shield heal other than EPtS1, which heals about 1400 per facing every 30 seconds. Your Adapted MACO Covariant shield has high capacity but below average regeneration rate, which means once your shield is gone, your 27K hull is at very serious risk, it doesn't matter what hull damage resistance you have really. My guess is you primarily do PvE, if so, that's fine. I don't see this as a viable build in PvP however.
Granted, it's not the best Science vessel, per se. But you're dismissng the Vesta way too easily.
It's my opinion, I stand by it and I already explained why. For PvE, it's a fine ship, for PvP, it stands almost no chance against a skilled Escort.
Comments
So what can be done about it? Well the logical thing to do would be to buff science abilities again. This would be great if not for the fact they are buffed by tactical abilities that increase your damage and how shifted it is towards a tactical captain. Also can anyone confirm if damage buffs like omega and alpha buff the drains too? I believe they did at one point but not sure now as I use my tactical captain for lolz, A2B ftw.
So first thing to do would be to alter Attack patterns Alpha, Omega and Go Down Fighting (GDF) so they only affect weapons. Who would notice? I'm guessing only about 5% would notice the difference and it would not have a huge impact on the current game. I would however keep the interplay between -damage resistance and sci abilities damage as it affords buffing and debuffing of both damage and resistance to it.
Now we can start buffing damage on the damage focused abilities like Gravity Well, Photonic Shockwave, tractor beam, tractor beam repulsors and feedback pulse. It also means it's easier to balance as we won't end up with wildly different capabilities of ship captains (well except engineer, we
What about the other skills though? Well a look at the tests done by the fantastic people who make this chart http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm shows that resists on skill points alone go up to 50%, you can probably exceed this significantly with consoles. If you compare this to damage and damage resistance there's a lot of difference.
You get max 12.4% damage resistance from skill points alone, so maybe we should bring the sci resists down to a comparable standard so you get only 25% resistance or less with skill points. Another possibility is to have resists as they are now but at 50 aux power it's only 25% resistance with it going up to a hard cap of 50% resistance at 100 aux power. This would mean engineers can automatically make things tankier due to how much they can buff power levels, make science ships and cruisers as resilient as they are now but making the fast nimble tacscorts think about their builds a bit more even if it is only to add an aux battery. Alternatively we can follow the damage resistance model set by armour and have consoles give bigger resists while nerfing those given by skill points into the ground.
Another thing that would probably help science be more useful would be to change what is affected by what skill. So rather than having 2-3 skills affecting an ability how about only one. Also how's about reducing that 6-7 skills affecting science abilities down to say 3-4. Countermeasures for disables, placate and confuse, Particle gens and/or Gravitron gens for holds, repels and damage etc and flow caps for drains. This will allow science ships to use more than one specific type of skill or spec wholly into science while reserving a bare minimum for engineering and tactical.
Science abilities also tend to have some of the longest cooldowns in the game outside of captain abilities and the only ability that does reduce them is lacklustre to say the least. Here's an interesting thread on PO btw http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=827501.
So some way to either reduce them by buffing photonic officer as suggested in the above thread would be nice or try to reduce some of the cooldowns to say 30-40s rather than a global of 30-40s and a single ability cooldown of 60s+.
Anyway the above is just food for thought. I would not think all of these need implementing but removal of the tactical captain damage buffs and it's boost to science ability damage should be removed as well as altering the way resists work would do a lot to sci abilities.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Tactical Abilities such as weapons are effected by at least 4 abilties in the Tac Tree.
T1 Weapons Training, T2 Starship X Weapons, T3 Targetting, T5 Starship X Weapons Specialisation. The problem is the lower abilities provide a boost all the way along.
Where as Flow Capacitors isn't helped by Particle Generators and Subsystem Decompiler. And maybe science abilities that use Flow Capacitors should have some damage bolted on via Particle Generators and effects enhanced by Subspace Decompiler.
Maybe Science should be changed to be more like weapons. T1 to enhance it, T2 to increase the effect, T3 to make it last, T5 to enhance damage.
T1 increases Gravity Wells gravity, T2 makes the Well Larger & Stronger, T3 makes it hang around longer and T5 makes it hurt more. The problem is I roll Particle and Gravitons together as well as Counter Measures and Subspace. Although Graviton and Counter measures are kind of like Torpedo skills. Some use them most don't.
Perhaps some behind the scenes math changes could be done so 3 ranks of Insulators counters 3 ranks of Flow Capacitors, meaning it hits like neither of you have skill points. But 9 Ranks of Flow Capacitors counter 6 ranks and still adds 15 more to it. But 9 Ranks of Insulators would have 15 more resist than vs 6 ranks. It would also make Sci Consoles more useful instead of just a place to put all our Universals.
As it is 3 Ranks in Insulators and Inertial Dampers and your barely effected by anything. Even if they have 9 ranks in Flow Cap & Graviton.
I don't think it's an easy puzzle to solve but I do think it's one that's worth doing because Science needs to be a competitive field even if your not using a DHC Vesta.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Where's the like button on this forum?
You hit the nail on the head. That's why I've stopped playing with science ships. Most consoles and Passive skills (from the Special Task Force) level give you science abilities. Like you also said, they created the Vesta as a money maker.
I'm convinced Cryptic has no intention of fixing the problem with science ships. Just look at how the cruisers are filling in the gaps between the ship classes. No wonder the joke of "Escorts Online" lasted for so long.
Cruiser/ Science ships hybrid for example
Star Cruiser
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Star_Cruiser
Exploration Cruiser Refit
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Exploration_Cruiser_Refit
Mirror Universe Star Cruiser (My current ship)
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mirror_Universe_Star_Cruiser
Fleet Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser Retrofit
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_Corsair_Flight_Deck_Cruiser_Retrofit
As one of the earlier replies stated, the problem is not with science ships, it is with their abilities. Science ships, in of themselves, are excellent ships. They are the most versitile, most flexible form of vessel available in-game! There is a variety of science ship for almost everything. Want a Tactical Science Ship? Buy the Fleet Recon! Want a Tank-Healer? Get the Tholian Orb Weaver! Want to serve out a deluxe helping of spam? Get the Atrox Carrier!
There really isn't an issue at all with science ships. Granted, 3/3 weapons is IRRITATING, but its perfectly canon (science ships are SCIENCE ships after all, not warships). They also have additional sensor abilities (which are, as already stated, not as good as they could/should be) that balance out the reduced damage potential. They also have higher maneuverability then cruisers, while retaining stronger shields and higher modifiers then any other class of vessel available. Science ships are inherently as good if not better then many other classes of ship.
THAT ASIDE...the real *disadvantage* of science ships is in their ABILITIES. Sensor Analysis has the potential to be an amazing game-balancer, but it needs to take effect quicker then it does to be valid. However, the science BO skills are what really need a look taken at; for example, with Tactical, you can up your damage with Cannon Rapid Fire; its easy, spec into weapons, train rapid fire and your all set. With Engineering, you can increase DPS with Directed Energy Modulation; also easy, spec into weapons, train DEM, and your all set. With science, you can up your damage by...training Gravity Well, specing into Graviton and Particle Generations, diverting all your power away from Weapons to Axuliliary thus losing weapon damage, firing off Gravity Well, diverting power back to weapons....etc.
Anyway, you see my point. The problem with Science ships *damage wise* is in the available BoFF powers. And bear in mind, this disadvantage is ONLY in the DPS range; Science ships are still king as healers and/or harassers.
Finally...to the guy who suggested fixing science ships by reducing the cooldown on sensor scan...GREAT suggestion, but its flawed; Sensor Scan is a Science captain ability....it does not come on science ships.
- T
still doesn't take away the fact that a sensor scan "brings your sensors offline for recalibrating" (because that's the only motive for which i can see a motive to not be able to spam-use such skill) for 1 min and 30 sec and its effect lasts only 20 secs.
Really, recalibrating after every single scan? Precision is ok, but this is way over headed.
Also, if the ability's effect last a little more then maybe it'd be a little more "efficient" (something like 5 or 10 secs more would be nice, specially on bigger targets).
You don't have to justify your suggestion me me! I agree with you 100% already
I'm simply stating that, as that power relates to science captains and not science ship, it would be better off on a thread re; the science career and not this one! Great idea, regardless. Might even be worth making a separate thread about.
That is correct. Sensor Analysis is a science ship built-in passive ability. Sensor Scan is the Lt. Science player ability.
And I agree with much of your posts about what is broke and more importaintly, how to fix it.
They could use 1 more slot each especially the three slotters!
They could also use a secondary deflector slot which would improve damage all around.
We could also use a total redux of the entire torpedo system they have because half of them don't even function like they should anymore.
both the trans and chron should be piecing shields unless we're supposed to believe that everyone has temporal shielding on all the time.
And then there's the problem of weapons actually not receiving benefits from science stats like phasers polaron tetryon not getting the benefit of flow capacitor bonuses. I have a whole list of how they could be improved easily which would more than likely solve the "romulan plasma set only" and "beam weapons don't do anywhere as well as cannon weapons" issues this game has had for some time now.
and to talk about the quote above me, Sensor Analysis is extremely slow. I'm supposed to believe that my photonic doff, my andriod boff, and my borg doffs/boffs all can't possibly analyze sensors fast enough to get the job done quickly while im on my 5.5 sci ship with all borg XII gear (which would have borg enhanced sensors)?
Science vessels most prominently use science abilities, so my post is still fairly accurate.
Most escorts have better hull health and a slight advantage in weapons.
Yes science abilities need to be fixed desperatly but in a game where damage is king, more weapons power is better (minus the vesta with aux cannon)
Ships like the nova are science vessels, but the Nebula and Voyager are not science vessels.
The nebula was built as a succesor to the mirnada class using the galaxy as a template, much as the miranda was built using the constitution refit as a template.
Voyager as seen on sscreen was not lacking in the weapons department, and was a ship of exploration, smaller as it was not meant for faimilies.
The 4/4, 4/3, and 3/3 slpits between the classes are asinine. now most of the science ships, are in fact science ships, oberth, nova, and some of the others.
i believe a fourth class should be added that doesn't follow the trinity of weapons should be made. An exploration group. ships that are designed for their vesatility, actually used in versatile ways. The paltry reward you get from Sensor analasys is garbage, it takes too long to help especially since that is supposed to help science. but in most matches how often are you locked on a target long enough for it to fully build?
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you want to get real, almost (with a few exceptions) any ship in game should have no more than 3 forward and 3 aft weapons slots, with at least one of each being a torpedo launcher. Anything else is OVERGUNNED.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Your first part about them fighting like escorts is correct. We shouldn't expect science ships to fight like escorts and should not expect science ships to top damage all the time. I said earlier that our trade offs in weapon slots over the other ship classes should make up for it though.
One of the other problems which is not on topic but worth mentioning is that science ships are just not needed in PvE, an arguement that they're great in PvP can be made though and science abilities tend to be what allows kills to happen just as much as double BO3 alpha strike BoPs. Considering most people PvE, the lack of need for science abilities in PvE (outside of ensign/lt level heals) doesn't help.
I know there are some missions that having science abilities are useful and maybe one where it's kind of needed but most of these missions have the same or poorer rewards than other "deeps da best evar!" missions. What this equates to is people just skipping those missions or PvE queues and running the same few missions on alts as it's quicker for the same reward.
A solution is to make science abilities needed in more missions but to also increase the rewards for these missions as incentive to play. Another option which a lot also call for is to change the original missions so they are "harder" though people complain because "deeps int da best evar!? =S" in them if they make the enemies require debuffs.
Speaking of debuffs, as I said earlier does our science debuffs REALLY help the team do more damage or complete the objective faster?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Talking of debuffs, tractor beam and sensor scan are the only ones i can see as any kind of worth.
If then we want to count subnucleonic beam as something which debuffs (which seems more like an anti-buff skill rather than a debuff unless in PvP), then we're up to 3 worthy skills, of which 2 are captain skills.
- Tyken's rift, nah.
- Energy syphon, what for? Breen Set FTW!
- Charged Particle Burst, doesn't decloak not even BoPs, why use it?
- Tachyon Beam, the extremely narrow angle critically reduces it's tactical use (considering that somehow borg spheres can do it 360? wide, go figure).
- Viral matrix, 75% efficient against conventional enemies, -75% against borg (they have instant subsytem restoration + viral matrix doesn't tackle anymore the shield sub).
- Jam sensor, useless, besides being a single-target placate (the targeted enemy will not see you but friendly targets yes) it will still break after the first quantum torpedo straight into the hull.
- Scramble sensor, useless double-cut debuff, as borg are 1000% immune to it and if they weren't the first person to use a bounce-skill (e.g. Isometric charge) will be likely to be sent back to the sender.
Um...how about this : Weapons Power = 125 (150 with resistance buff), Shields Power = 130, Engines Power = 125, Auxiliary Power = 130
FYI, Breen set is not end game worthy and its ES is only equivalent to ES I with longer CD of 1 minute 20 sec. It only gives you half of the drained energy.
Tachyon Beam has an angle of 135 degree, it has been changed months ago, along with many other skills. That's 3 X times wider angle than that of DHCs. Call that narrow if you will, Sci ships are generally agile, maintaining a 135 degree arc for merely 4 sec is not an issue.
It also breaks tractor lock and stops an enemy from BFAW you.
You are forgetting Gravity Well, Feedback Pulse
still, not worth unless in pvp.
Better an entire set of it's own than a wasted sci skill. (also, it can be used on power drain builds for ships who can't have a sufficient number of si boff skills for both self healing AND syphon)
135 deg? well, it's been a very long time i don't use it because:
1. i don't pvp
2. even if i used it the shield drain is infinitesimal on anything bigger than a mirror light cruiser.
doesn't take away the fact that as an E-War skill it absolutely sucks.
those are not debuffs, they are offensive (gravity well) and defensive (feedback pulse) skills, which can be turned into debuffs only throught doffs, and by sci debuffs it was originally meant the skills themselves, not the eventual variation thanks to the doffs.
Maybe once it activates, it continues while in that arc range, but everytime I want to first activate it, the arc range was 60 (same firing arc as Dual Beams or torpedos). An arc of 135 seems a little funky when weapons arcs are either 30,60,180, 300, or 360.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Bro...after you try a vesta your thinking will change. Trust me, it'll make your ePeen 12 inches longer (if you're a female it'll increase your bust by two cup sizes). I fly my vesta (and armed it) just like I did my Heavy Escort Refit (Heavy Escort Refit). I have yet to meet a ship that I COULDN'T keep in front of my dual heavy Heavy Cannons + Beam Array + Har'Peng torpedo. Plus my Turret in the rear as my 4th forward facing weapon.
As I was told on another post (and I agree 1,000%), the Vesta is the best Science / Tactical ship on the game. During STF's I can heal teammates, launch my Scorpions, keep up with those trigger happy escorts and do a good amount of damage.
In PvE, maybe, in PvP, lol no.
Best Science vessel? Not by a long shot. To start, it has significantly less shielding than all Fleet Science vessels, that's a good 6-7 of them. Its hull is among the weakest, barely higher than a Klingon BoP which is infinitely faster and more agile + battlecloak. Its turn rate is a barely passable 12, and a impulse modifier of merely 15, which is slower than even the Scimitar. Pets are irrelevant for the most part. Finally, for a true Science vessel having to waste any boff seating on tactical stations just isn't a good idea. All the fancy Vesta consoles are just big waste of time, with long cooldown, good once every 3 minutes.
You are either going to be out Sci or out Tact by a true Science vessel or a real Escort. Remember, a ship that is neither Sci nor Tact is an in-between which means it's not the best in anything and therefore, forgettable.
Sorry couldn't resist =D
Saying the vesta is the best science ship, I agree it is not, it's a cash grab as I said earlier in the thread. It's still a good ship and the aux DHC are amazing while the consoles can be nice sometimes though I used it more for racing than anything else.
I find your last comment incredibly short sighted and just plain wrong tbh. Saying hybrids are forgettable (remember more people PvE than PvP) is like saying that any form of experimentation is rubbish and we should just have "pure" science, tactical and engineering ships or else they're forgettable.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
From a PVP perspective a dedicated science vessel in 1v1 combat should not have high DPS. Its a bad mindset. You overcome your enemy by mitigating their ability to do damage making your weak hull irrelevant. You subdue their ability to heal making your weapons capability less of an issue. In the end it takes longer. But its all about holding them down and methodically TRIBBLE them.
That said I have become a phased polaron hooker recently. Mitigate mitigate mitigate.
While I hate the sexual violence reference, I do agree with our assesment of how science ships should work. I will just use a different way of explaining it: Science ships work to disable, disarm, and negate an opponent. Like you said, you don't win by dishing out lost of damage, you win by long term attrition. You still heal while they slowly bleed out. Death by a thousand cuts, as it were.
Let me ask you this: What percent of people are TRIBBLE? What percent of people are racial minorities? What percent of people are disabled & require accommodation in workplace?
Why should societies have anti-discrimination law given any of the above mentioned group is only a small minority, using your logic? (or lack of, sorry couldn't resist
Let's face it, Cryptic is not a charity, it is in business to make money. When they released the Subspace Rupture Console and it broke PvP, Cryptic rapidly fixed it within days even though there wasn't much complaint from the PvE crowd. So what can we learn from this? Let me be just as blunt here , the "We are holier than thou attitude" is uncalled for.
The fact is opinion is like nose, everyone has one. I stated my point of view. Feel free to disagree. Someone who only wants to play story missions over and over can do it using a Ferengi garbage scout ship, no need for a Vesta. You are more than welcome to disagree and disregard my opinion, but please do so politely. Calling someone "incredibly short sighted" is very impolite and not conducive to a constructive discussion. Then you proceed to misrepresent my comment and twist my words into things I never said. Suffice to say, I am not happy right now. I realize many are kids here, but I am an adult - if you are a kid, please be polite or you will find yourself eternally ignored very quickly.
+1 for that.
Problem being, it's been something that's been realized way back at the step from P2P to F2P. and that cryptic has been overlooking by saying "well, at least we got you more zen sci ships!" (like if the vesta was an actual sci ship.... it's just a heavy escort carrier masked as a sci ship, nothing more.)
My point being: I could make a cogent case out of stating Engineers are more useful for healing than Science Captains.
I'm all for buffing Science, btw. As an Engineer, I fly many Science ships: Orb Weavers, Recluse, Vesta, etc. And I *love* Science-y stuff, really!
And yes, Science ships are weaker when it comes to contributing (in PvE). Sure, I can drain a Sphere dry within seconds; but nothing ever beats Escorts killing everything within 10 seconds. The truly sad part is, that 'pew-pew' sells; and Cryptic itself has sold out to greed. Ergo, they're not gonna fix Science, ever. Or do I sound too bitter now?
Yeah I know, it's a shame really. For a game that has so much focus on the combat it does seem oddly obsessed with having fights finish as soon as humanly possible.
This is why I like being an engineer, and flying cruisers. And why I also haven't keybinded any abilites or touched fleet gear at all.
I've not touched science as a career yet, but for these reasons I don't think I'd mind sticking with a 6 beam boat. It'd be just like the cruisers I fly now just without the torpedoes, which do negligible damage at the best of times thanks to slivers of shield facings.
I would also agree that sci abilities should be un-nerfed. Though I'm in no position to say so myself it's an opinion shared by friends and fleeties I know who fly sci.
Granted in pve they suck I don't see a way of fixing this withou TRIBBLE PVP up
Vesta is a great ship! I fly a very sturdy, agile Vesta:
U.S.S. Neela
Even with no resist mods at all, I'm often the last one standing.
Granted, it's not the best Science vessel, per se. But you're dismissng the Vesta way too easily.
Thanks for the link. I don't understand why you have 3 copies of Aux to Dampeners...
Your build has no shield heal other than EPtS1, which heals about 1400 per facing every 30 seconds. Your Adapted MACO Covariant shield has high capacity but below average regeneration rate, which means once your shield is gone, your 27K hull is at very serious risk, it doesn't matter what hull damage resistance you have really. My guess is you primarily do PvE, if so, that's fine. I don't see this as a viable build in PvP however.
It's my opinion, I stand by it and I already explained why. For PvE, it's a fine ship, for PvP, it stands almost no chance against a skilled Escort.