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Suggestions on a Wonky Nebula Build
miri2
Member Posts: 112 Arc User
So, I've been flitting around with the Risian Corvette for a couple weeks, and have learned a few things from the experience. Among them that I'm really not all that big into escorts.
But it did give me an idea for a Nebula build which I'd really like to get some opinions on before I start retraining BOffs, buying kit, or just straight-up misbuilding.
The basic concept can be best summed up in two words:
Scientific Battlecruiser
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Fore Weapons: 2x Plasma Cannons, 1x Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array
Aft Weapons: 3x Plasma Turrets
Bridge Officer Abilities:
Tactical Team I, Cannon: Rapid Fire I
Emergency to Auxiliary I, Auxiliary to Battery I, Directed Energy Modulation II
Emergency to Shield I, Auxiliary to SIF I
Hazard Emitters I, Science Team II, Transfer Shield Strength III, Energy Siphon III
Polarize Hull I
Omega Force Shields and Engines, Aegis Deflector
Hyper-Injection Warp Core [EPS] [A->W]
Consoles
Plasma Infuser x2
Neutronium, Plasmonic Leech, Assimilated Module
Shield Emitter Array x3, Zero-Point Energy Module
Duty Officers
4x Technicians (I happen to have 5 copies of the same purple technician)
1x Development Lab Scientist
The basic idea here is to make a ship that can satisfy my fetish for cross-healing and endurance, but actually has claws if engaged directly.
Aux2Batt should probably about the right recycle time (give or take) with four Technicians to pop it and Aux to SIF on an alternating basis for hull recovery, and provide a period of high-aux power to spring HE, TSS, and ES. For emergency repair scenarios, I have EPtAux slotted to speed up Aux recovery after Aux2Batt expires, or to buff the heck out of Aux power before springing Aux2Batt for an opening gambit or knock-out punch.
I deliberately chose to use the Omega Force shields to get a much-needed boost to turn rate during combat situations, and threw in the Omega engines for the Tetryon Glider effect to bolster the ship's effective DPS.
There are big problems I can foresee with this build, including the very rigid power ordering and 10-15 second windows where half of my powers are rendered useless.
To say nothing of my uncertainties regarding this thing's firepower, even with my Tactical captain buffs and all of the effects I've layered onto this monstrosity.
The Rom-beam is there to keep weapons power high (it doesn't drain power when fired), to participate in the 2-part Romulan weapons-set to boost plasma damage, and to take advantage of the Nebula's inbuilt subsystem targeting powers.
It could probably be swapped out pretty easily for a third single-cannon, but that may or may not actually boost this thing's DPS when one factors in power drain and the 7.6% boost to weapon and DEM damage from the set bonus.
Sorry, this is a kinda' long post, but I'm curious about people's impressions about this thing's feasibility. I have no clue, myself!
Thanks for your feedback, all!
But it did give me an idea for a Nebula build which I'd really like to get some opinions on before I start retraining BOffs, buying kit, or just straight-up misbuilding.
The basic concept can be best summed up in two words:
Scientific Battlecruiser
Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Fore Weapons: 2x Plasma Cannons, 1x Experimental Romulan Plasma Beam Array
Aft Weapons: 3x Plasma Turrets
Bridge Officer Abilities:
Tactical Team I, Cannon: Rapid Fire I
Emergency to Auxiliary I, Auxiliary to Battery I, Directed Energy Modulation II
Emergency to Shield I, Auxiliary to SIF I
Hazard Emitters I, Science Team II, Transfer Shield Strength III, Energy Siphon III
Polarize Hull I
Omega Force Shields and Engines, Aegis Deflector
Hyper-Injection Warp Core [EPS] [A->W]
Consoles
Plasma Infuser x2
Neutronium, Plasmonic Leech, Assimilated Module
Shield Emitter Array x3, Zero-Point Energy Module
Duty Officers
4x Technicians (I happen to have 5 copies of the same purple technician)
1x Development Lab Scientist
The basic idea here is to make a ship that can satisfy my fetish for cross-healing and endurance, but actually has claws if engaged directly.
Aux2Batt should probably about the right recycle time (give or take) with four Technicians to pop it and Aux to SIF on an alternating basis for hull recovery, and provide a period of high-aux power to spring HE, TSS, and ES. For emergency repair scenarios, I have EPtAux slotted to speed up Aux recovery after Aux2Batt expires, or to buff the heck out of Aux power before springing Aux2Batt for an opening gambit or knock-out punch.
I deliberately chose to use the Omega Force shields to get a much-needed boost to turn rate during combat situations, and threw in the Omega engines for the Tetryon Glider effect to bolster the ship's effective DPS.
There are big problems I can foresee with this build, including the very rigid power ordering and 10-15 second windows where half of my powers are rendered useless.
To say nothing of my uncertainties regarding this thing's firepower, even with my Tactical captain buffs and all of the effects I've layered onto this monstrosity.
The Rom-beam is there to keep weapons power high (it doesn't drain power when fired), to participate in the 2-part Romulan weapons-set to boost plasma damage, and to take advantage of the Nebula's inbuilt subsystem targeting powers.
It could probably be swapped out pretty easily for a third single-cannon, but that may or may not actually boost this thing's DPS when one factors in power drain and the 7.6% boost to weapon and DEM damage from the set bonus.
Sorry, this is a kinda' long post, but I'm curious about people's impressions about this thing's feasibility. I have no clue, myself!
Thanks for your feedback, all!
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill
Post edited by miri2 on
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The other big point is that, with cannons, and especially with just 6 weapon slots, you really don't have to worry much about power drain. If you want the beam for subsystem targeting you can do that (although that's really only useful in PvP, if there), but you don't need it for power.
You won't want those three Shield Emitter Amplifiers, either, you'd be much better off with Emitter Arrays, which boost both passive regen and heals, and that brings me to another point: you're awfully short on sci offense. If you want to run a sci ship, you kind of need to be bringing more punch to the table with your sci abilities than you are here (or else be a healer, which I guess you could do for PvP, even though a cruiser would be better at it, but you'd want to swap the HE and ST and also pick up an Extend Shields). You only have a single offensive ability, one copy of Energy Siphon, and that means both that you bring little to the table and that you're not even taking advantage of Energy Siphon's ability to be chained near continuously with high Aux. Ultimately, I'm just not seeing much of a strength here, I think you probably ought to go back to the drawing board on this and try to find something that you really want to be doing, and then build so you can do that. And then you'll want to use your sci consoles to boost that.
I think you'll find this build very underwhelming, as you're not playing to the ship's strengths. Rather than just a build concept, consider all the options at your disposal and how you can get the LtCom/Com BOff abilities to work in synergy. For example, the Nebula-R is one of the few ships that can slot both Gravity Well and Eject Warp Plasma, both crowd-control abilities of proven effectiveness.
Having AuxToBatt on a Science ship is odd, for starters, given the reliance of most Sci abilities on Aux power; and decreasing the cooldown of your healing abilities isn't that necessary unless you're a dedicated healer in PvP - careful management of team heals usually suffices in PvE.
Using the LtCom Eng ability for DEM2 seems like a waste - you could potentially slot EWP1 or AB1 (the former has more use in PvE), but don't bother with either if you're not spec'd into Particle Generators.
Personally, I'd rather arrange it as:
ST1, TSS2, HE3, ES3
PH1
You are right, of course.
This build is actually a bit of a reaction to my tried-and-functional KFD sci/sci, which can drop shield-heals like a maniac (enough to tank a most PvP escorts for long enough for an ally to fly over and bail me out), but can't fight its way out of a paper bag.
Trying to give this build a set of weapons-damage-based teeth ultimately leaves it playing hard against type, and, judging by feedback, it would be suffering heavily for it.
I actually agree with just about everything else you said in your post, but I am going to fight you here-- it's kinda' amazing sometimes how hard it is to keep an escort alive when they just park in front of a tactical cube!
In my experience, Science Team II is a very powerful secondary shield-heal ability, when one whittles it down to a 15-second cooldown. It'll just about reset most PvE escorts to full shields each time it's dropped. I'll admit that HE I is a pretty weak heal, all things considered, but I tend to assume that Aux to SIF is going to do the healing and resistance part of HE's job a bit better anyway.
Y'know, my experience running High-Yield I and Flail-at-Will II on my KDF sci has been less than encouraging. I'm a little surprised at the Tachyon Beam, though-- I've never had any luck with it before. (Then again, my sci didn't have 99 in Flow Capacitors at the time.)
That was me derping the wrong number in. I only have four copies of the cyber-cat anyway. :P
My hope with that particular ability was to drive down its CD with Aux2Batt to keep it on a relatively high uptime, but, admittedly, Energy Siphon is hardly the most effective offensive science ability.
That was a pretty good way to put it-- made me realize that what I was trying to do was to build a heal-heavy tactical cruiser, using A2B, DEM, and Tetryon Glider as surrogates for this ship's one missing tactical power and two missing weapon slots.
... honestly, considering how my Tac's skill training evolved over the 1-50 march, it's probably what she's best at anyway...
Thanks again to everyone who replied. Now to figure out if I can synthesize this feedback into an altered build, or a way to more gracefully blend my tac-heavy skill load with a science vessel... or if I should just break down and start grinding for a different starship chassis.
-- Winston Churchill
Plasma Single Cannons and Turrets
TT, CSV1
EPtE1, Aux2Batt, EPtS3
ET, Aux2Batt
HE1, TSS2, VM1, TBR3
PH1
3x purple tech doffs, 2x vm doffs.
≡/\≡
If you want to be a space healer don't use a science ship. Science healing abilities only go up to lt.com level. Engineering healing abilities go up to commander. For this reason a science focused cruiser is a far better healer then an engineering focused science ship.
Also, as others have stated, aux to bat is a bad idea for healing. If healing is your goal you want full auxiliary power, and you want it when your mate needs healing, not 5 seconds after he explodes.
As another has said science team needs to go. Not because its a bad shield heal. Its good, especially when you don't have aux power, but its not worth 15 seconds without a tac team.
Remember tactical team is something you can throw on your healing target instead of yourself to help them make the most of those shield heals your giving them. If some one is bad enough that they need cross healing then chances are they didn't double up their own tac team so they may need it from you.
Extend shields 3 and auxiliary power to structural integrity field 2 are the two must have abilities for cross healing as the short reuse time helps make sure you have them ready when some one needs them. The bonus to damage resistance they give helps your other heals go a lot further as well.
Of course you still want to have transfer shield strength and hazard emitters as well.
Now finally if your building a dedicated healer and your ramping up your aux and shield power (extend shields works off shield power rather then aux) then your not going to have power for weapons so your probably going to want to go with a lot of projectiles.
The romulan hyper plasma torpedo launcher + 3 projectile doffs isn't quite as good as having aux cannons, but its not bad and certainly the 2nd best option for a ship without weapons power. As your boosting plasma damage any way 2 plasma mine launchers isn't a bad idea.
The brean transphasic cluster torpedo is also worth a slot, though the burn from plasma is generally better then the shield penetration of normal transphasics.
Finally turret damage scales very well with power level, so any slot you don't fill with a projectile launcher should probably take a turret.
Actually Energy siphon 3 is probably one of the best offensive science abilities. With 4 flow capacitor consoles you can get 50pts of power drain out of it (before factoring in resistance). now against many players that's greatly reduced, but its still enough to shut down the aux and engines of a fair number of romulan ships.
Also bare in mind that the goal with power syphon isn't generally to shut down subsystems. Its always going to be a disappointment if you look at it like that. The goal is to create a large disparency between your power levels and your targets.
Their power insulators do not effect the power buff that energy syphon gives you. So lets say their insulators take that 50pt power drain and turn it into just 20pts. that doesn't seem so fantastic. but your still getting a 50pt buff. So that's a 70pt gulf between your power and theirs. That's a big deal.
The other nice thing about energy syphon is that 'flow capacitors' are also used by tachyon beam and tractor beams(provided you use a tractor beam doff for shield drain). Double up those abilities and a science ship can give all its offensive abilities the benefit of a full rack of science consoles. (tykens rift also benefits, but tykens rift is horribly bad, don't use it.)
I'm fairly certain that a specialized Gravity-well build or a highly-skilled Viral Matrix will have much more of a negative effect on its target than a go of Energy Syphon will, but I agree with you that sprouting a good-sized dose of shield and weapons power certainly goes a long way to making ES hold its own. That's been my experience with it, at least.
This isn't necessarily as big of a problem if the ship in question aims to perform healing alongside another task (for example, healing/power drain, or, in the case of the ill-conceived build I started this thread with, healing/damage), but I do see your point. Long have I cast jealous eyes towards Aux to SIF III whilst poking away with its rank-one cousin. :P
It's still pretty fun, though.
And, if I understand the workings of the aux-cannons correctly, the heavy-plasma-torpedo-cannon has the added advantage of not eating part of your auxiliary power during its firing cycle.
The torps-fore, mines-aft build is something I have looked into recently (though it wasn't on a science vessel). I was a little surprised to find that plasma mines have a shared cooldown which was very nearly as long as their individual CDs, IIRC. Assuming that I wasn't missing something critically important when I ran my would-be mine-layer, it'd probably be best to put a plasma torpedo there in place of one of those plasma mines.
* In fact, the I.K.S. Gress'sril (pictured in my avatar) does pack a purple version of the Tractor Beam DOff you mentioned, and goes a step further to use Polarized Disruptors. It doesn't use any Flow Capacitor consoles, though, since I consider my first job to be keeping the ships that do damage standing, and the Varanus really doesn't have enough console slots as it is. Otherwise I'd probably be using a Plasmonic Leech with it.
-- Winston Churchill
Gravity wells are not what they used to be. I recently put 4 mk XI VR graviton generators and a gravimetric deflector array on a sci ship, and tested a level 3 grav well with 6 points in the captain skill on a friend. believe it or not neither his acceleration or maneuverability was affected in the slightest without using any resistance buffs.
Gravity well still has its uses in PVP, if you have an aftershock doff and some deflector ability recharge ones its good for clearing pets, mines and high yield torpedo's, but I haven't found it very useful for making people dead. In PVE its still good for groups of enemies that don't use EP2E.
As to viral matrix I do run a few builds using that as well and it can be very useful. Honestly Its been difficult to tell weather it or my drain builds are better as I seem to have had about equal success with both. The main downsides to Viral matrix are that it doesn't synergize amazingly well with other science abilities and there is no subspace decompiler console. I usually use viral matrix on science ships with fewer science ability slots. Its certainly worth combining with the romulan space set as the romulan deflector gives a Subspace decompiler bonus which isn't much use for anything else.
You went missing anything, there really is only a few seconds difference in deployment time between 1 and 2 launchers. If I remember rightly the global cool down is 15 seconds and the re-use on plasma mine launchers is 20? I am not certain about that. Some one correct me if I am wrong.
The reason I personally choose to go with two mines rather then an aft launcher is simply that I don't usually have anything in the firing arc of an aft mounted launcher. Even if I do I am not going to have any energy weapons or tachyon beams on it so long as it is back there so an aft torpedo launcher doesn't get that much use. Some times I put the omega one back there for the omega set bonus. but usually I prefer two plasma mines and a tractor mine launcher.
Ok, I agree that without double-abilities or decreased cooldown, then some less tactically aware escort pilots will definitely get vapourised by Tac Cubes. When team healing as a Cruiser captain I usually resign myself to not being able to save those ships every time, but that's obviously not your M.O., and you're entitled to play how you like and I have no issues with that.
With regard to the arrangement of BOff powers; that's interesting, it's an approach I haven't read about before. If it works for you, that's what counts.
While the firepower of the Nebula-R leaves something to be desired, I consider it one of the "hidden gems" of Starfleet Science Vessels. Given that it can be complicated to build a good sci ship (relative to the ease of building a good Escort) I was more than happy to share my thoughts. Good hunting!
Since I got the free Nebula-R from the giveaway, I'm finally leveling my sci, and since I am a total Sci-newbie, I got no idea how to fit the boat. I'm thinking of going with a drain/hold build with torps since with other characters I've noticed they can be downright devastating in PvP and pretty useful in PvE (also, makes the wait to climb up the reps for better gear less painful thanks to the Breen set and its transphasic torp buff) that can also take a beating to it's shields and live.
Here is the build I've had in my mind
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=nebulatest123_0 (note: The subspace snare is infact the Subspace Integration Circuit, I got an extra one just floating around so I figured I might aswell throw it in)
Is that worth anything, or am I totally clueless?
So I have two main suggestions: replace the JS with another TB (you pick whether it's Tractor or Tachyon), and drop the Particle Generator for something else (probably the Zero Point Energy Conduit). Jam Sensors just isn't very good, it's not all that useful a thing to do, and breaks too easily, while being able to chain shield drains is pretty essential for a build like this. And the Particle Generator is only going to boost the direct damage of your Tractor Beam, which just isn't worth the slot.
I'd also tend to drop the mines, or at least the Transphasic mines, for turrets which can hit while you're a short distance away from your target and you have your torpedoes in arc. Plus they'll help your shield draining a bit. (Honestly, I'm really not a fan of Transphasics, and would tend to use Quantums instead, but anyway.)
If you aren't locked into your skill spec that can be improved as well. Those last 3 points in the power boosting skills really just aren't worth having, and removing them will let you max Targeting Systems, and boost EPS and Efficiency to 6 points.
Finally, and this is probably a personal preference thing, or maybe a PvE vs PvP thing, I'd definitely take Spread over High Yield, I'd just much rather be able to hit multiple targets than have a little bit more damage on one.
I would like to echo what Jaden said about the Particle Generator, though. If it's to boost the TB's damage, I'm not sure I'd really bother, since it doesn't do that much in the first place. If you want your tractor beam to contribute directly to your offensive capabilities, I'd recommend picking up a tractor beam DOff to give that baby some shield drain, then swap the Particle Generator for a fourth Flow Capacitor. It's a noticeable effect with my KDF sci, and she only has about 99-ish in Flow Capacitors*.
Otherwise, you'd probably benefit more from a Graviton Generator*, since that affects your holds and such.
As far as Jam Sensors goes, I'm not as opposed to it as Jaden is-- back when I used to fly an escort, it saved my butt quite a few times. But if your panic-button reaction is to use RSP instead of screaming "Abandon your posts! Flee for your lives!", you may be much better off with a duplicate of one of your TBs.*
I'd personally base it on whichever you have a better DOff slotted for. If you're slotting a DOff for both, I'd personally lean towards Tractor Beam. It has a better control feature than Tachyon Beam's DOff*. Besides, even an uncommon-quality Tractor Beam DOff should provide a comparable shield drain to Tachyon Beam I.*
Since you seem to want to get up close and personal anyway, it seems like the logical choice.
... sorry, I kinda' rambled on a bit there...
* My science consoles are packed full of Shield Emitter Arrays, so it's just skill + deflector. I do run with a very-rare-quality TB officer that I got from colonizing the Arucanis arm, though, so that certainly helps. :P
* Yeah, I know the Assimilated Module is already a pretty good Graviton Generator, but the Breen dish kinda' sucks at everything the Breen actually do in this game, and that includes Graviton Generators.
* Besides, it looks like you're planning to run this build with weapons and engines low and auxiliary and shields high. Running on less than 50 total engine power is not going to end well. Trust me on this one-- I've tried it. x(
* Well, until your opponent drops Polarize Hull or Attack Pattern: Omega in PvP, but two copies of Tractor Beam plus the mines should overwhelm the recharge on those abilities pretty handily.
* The base drain value is higher, anyway, so assuming they scale equally with Flow Capacitors, the advantage for working on high Aux power probably won't put the TyB too far ahead. To say nothing of what a very-rare-quality TB DOff gives you!
-- Winston Churchill
I recently tested the effectiveness of graviton generators with a friend. Using a level 1 tractor beam, and a character with 6 points in the captain skill we found no difference what so ever in the hold effect when running with 4 VR mk XI graviton generator consoles or with no graviton generator consoles..
That is to say we went into a pvp dual and ran tests on the actual effect. The numbers change, but your targets ability to move and maneuver does not. Cryptic realy need to do something about science... but that's another subject.
Really? Then what the frell does my sci have any ranks in that skill for...? *>|
(Eh... I shouldn't get too mad. Both of my characters could probably use skill respecs pretty bad anyway.)
-- Winston Churchill
Transplanted from the "New Life for Nebula" thread. Thoughts?
Wow. Very interesting. Thanks for quoting this, Port Nacelle. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Also a fish.
I knew that TrB and TBR didn't scale its damage with Auxiliary power, but it never occurred to me that TBR might be at its most damaging at 5 auxiliary power! :P
That build looks pretty interesting. I'm seriously considering trying to build a midget version of it (which is to say a version without all the fleet stuff and point defense console). I'm going to wait to see a few other opinions before running inventory on what I need to retrain and re-purchase, though.
One thing that occurs to me is though is that I'd probably feel a bit naked without a copy of Science Team. That's probably just me, though.
-- Winston Churchill
I don't know if Miri did but I gave it a try. I was disappointed by the performance as it looked good in theory. I felt I was doing a lot better with a drain build.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=angryleech_0
All my leeching grant me quasi full power all the time, though I do wonder wether weapon power levels do influence the polaron proc or the plasmonic leech effect?
In regards to the CC, I know that you can't really leech it but ES does hinder it's regeneration. What could I do to increase my effectiveness in th event? I was thinking maybe going Breen set and use more torpedosm but I'm not sure.
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Your thinking along the right lines with torpedo's. Kenetic damage is key to consistently coming 1st. Healing a lot helps as well.
The nebula isn't the best ship for this event. But you can still make it highly competitive. Usually I am a big fan of flow capacitor builds but for this specific event you should probably ditch them.
Ship power settings: Max aux.
Forward weapons: Romulan Hyper plasma torpedo launcher, romulan experimental beam array, plasma torpedo launcher.
Forward weapons if romulan gear unavailable: plasma torpedo launcher x3
Aft Weapons: Turret x1. Plasma Mine launcher X2
Enginearing consoles: What ever you personally like (not +power)
Tactical consoles: 2X plasma projectile damage.
Science consoles: 4x particle generators.
Commander Science: Hazard Emitters 1, Tractor Beam repulsors 1, Gravity Well 1, Tractor beam repulsors 3
Lieutenant Commander Engineering: E.P. 2 Shields, A. P. 2 Structual, Warp Plasma 1
Lieutenant Tactical: Tactical team 1, Tactical Team 2
Lieutenant Universal: Polarize hull 1, Hazard Emitters 2
Ensign Science: Transfer Shield Strength 1
My under equipped alts with no rep have been using a variation of this in a vesta and claimed 1st every time. just make sure you spend all your time right up against the angry snowflake.
But thanks for your suggestions. I'll try it out and see where I'm going
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Yes the particle generators will increase the damage from your tractor repulsors, which are the principle damage component of the build. They also boost warp plasma and gravity well damage.
The reason to go with two tactical teams is to keep the shield balancing effect going.
If you want to run with one tactical team so that you can use a torpedo ability you could use two VR con officers doffs or three rare ones. But you would get better damage using your duty officer slots on projectile duty officers (recharge). a gravimetric scientists(aftershock) and a deflector duty officer(recharge).
Taking first in the CE event is about sustained damage. The spike damage from a torpedo ability is nice, but less useful then pumping out a continues supply of damage and self healing.