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A moment of nerd rage...

baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
You will all have to forgive me for this, but when I saw the screenshots and the concept art for the upcoming season 8 I was ticked off a bit. Not about the Voth (although I found the concept of the Voth to be totally ridiculous when it was originally presented during Voyager's on-air run) but about the Dyson sphere.

Not that anybody here couldn't guess, I am a huge science fiction fan. I prefer hard science fiction to space-opera type stuff, and Star Trek has, for years, been able to fill in technical data on the various technologies used. I have for a long time considered Trek to be hard science fiction; it extrapolates from current technologies and capabilities and remains true to those extrapolations within the context of the experienced universe.

STO has done a fair job in maintaining that, although many concessions have been made for the style of play the any MMO demands (why would any Starfleet officer use equipment, armor, shields, or weapons not issued to him by Starfleet?...things like that). But with the upcoming Dyson sphere I fear they have jumped the shark here, folks.

Let me present a little math for your perusal:

1 Astronomical Unit is the distance of the Earth from the surface of the sun along Earth's major orbital axis. It's not to the center of the sun, so we need to add the sun's radius to determine the actual radius of a Type II Dyson Sphere.

1 AU = 149,597,870.7 Km
Diameter of the sun = 1,391,000 Km
Radius of the sun = 695,500 Km


Dyson sphere radius = 1 AU + 695,500 km

Dyson sphere radius = 149,597,870.7 + 695,500

Next, we calculate the actual surface area of the interior of the sphere.

Surface area of a sphere = 4 pi r^2

Surface area of a Dyson sphere = 4*pi*150,293,370.7 Km^2

Surface area of a Dyson sphere = 283,850,401,848,032,511.2745161052134 Km^2

Now, with a tad bit more math we can see that....

Surface area of the Earth = 510,072,000 km^2
Surface area of a Dyson sphere = 283,850,401,848,032,511.2745161052134 Km^2

Dyson sphere = 556,490,851.97390272603576770576194 Earth surfaces

A Type II Dyson Sphere has the same surface area as slightly more than 556 million times the surface area of the Earth. It is mind-boggling huge!

Now, when we look at some of the concept art, we can see the actual curvature of the sphere.

Here is where the rage sets in.

To see the curvature of the Earth (albeit a convex curvature rather than a concave one) one must be near 11,000 meters (35,000 feet) or above. This will show you the shape of the world. However, when you flatten that world out and paste it along with 556 million other worlds, all you will see is flatness. Even assuming you went as high as 1000 km above the surface of the sphere, everything below you would still seem flat...you would not catch any hint at all of the curved structure inside of which you fly. It's just too darned huge to see it.

Even from your vaulted vantage point of 1000 km, the flat ground would recede from you in every direction, with details and colors quickly fading into the mist of the atmosphere unitl, eventually, out of the distant mist and cloud would arise a great curved shape, seeming to rise from the flat and impossibly distant horizon. It would arc overhead in a gigantic dome of blurry whites and browns and greys. No details from 2 AU distant would be discernible; That would be like trying to see the volcanoes on Jupiter's moon Io with your naked eye.

The Earth's atmosphere is only 400 km thick, and if the atmosphere in the the sphere is of similar depth and density you could see details, while on the surface, perhaps out to 100,000 kilometers before everything was diffused by distance and haze. From above the atmosphere at our previous 1000 km altitude, above the atmosphere, we could see within the sphere far more distantly (no gases or airborne particulate matter to diffuse, occlude, or refract the light), but along the inside of the sphere we would soon lose any details to the simple scale of the construct.

My point here is that if the curvature of the sphere is as pronounced as it is shown in the concept art and the structures shown are as detailed and visible than all of those very large towers would be larger than the planet Jupiter. They would have collapsed in on themselves due to their own gravity!

To give you an idea of scale, go out side or pull out a map and draw a circle 540 m in radius. Now if we were to project a map of the Earth onto the interior surface of a Dyson sphere, including your circle, that circle would then have the same surface area on the sphere as the Earth.

Now, all of this math depends on several things: the star used in the sphere being a main-sequence G-type star; a Type II Dyson Sphere shell 1 AU from the star's surface; an atmosphere of similar density and depth and composition as Earth; artificial gravity generation; technology not too far in advance of that used in the Alpha/Beta quadrants.

Perhaps the star is a white dwarf, and so the shell could be much smaller in radius resulting in a more obvious curvature; perhaps the atmosphere is thinner; perhaps the builders had nearly magical technology in comparison to the Federation. I can make all of these caveats, but what I have heard so far from the devs counters them.

Why are we fighting over area in a Dyson Sphere? It has more area then every inhabited world in all the empires of the Alpha/Beta quadrants combined! We could explore it for millennia and never even stumble across the Voth.

I have other questions: How is a dirunal cycle replicated? What about seasonal variation? The sphere captures 100% of the energy output of the star, so what does it do with it all? What happens to all the captured heat? Did the builders provide for weather? How do they keep all of the land from eroding away into the bottom of the seas over the course of time? How is the inner surface protected from dangerous radiation emitted from the star (there is no longer any geomagnetic field or Van Allen-type of radiation belts to do this)? How is the surface protected from coronal mass ejections? What protects the outside of the sphere from asteroids, cometary impact, or even rogue planets? How the heck does one achieve egress to and from such a structure?


I have already put a lot of thought and effort into these particular issues since I have my own projects dealing with Dyson Spheres. I want to know how the devs and the writers are handling them.

Anyone else have any thoughts? Any devs want to stand up and fill in some of these blanks for me?
Post edited by baloq on
The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
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Comments

  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    A, there's already a huge thread about this so why make another?

    B, the Dyson Sphere in Relics was only 200 million KM in diameter, so clearly they don't all need to be super-huge.

    C, Taco has already stated that the concept art is just concept art - IE, it has no bearing on what you'll see in the game.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    A, there's already a huge thread about this so why make another? ....

    ^ this. please close this thread.

    baloq wrote: »
    You will all have to forgive me for this, but when I saw the screenshots and the concept art for the upcoming season 8......

    and then, on a side note: 'purplegamer' is going to have a heyday with this one.....

    looks like he was 'right' after all about some people assuming things about 'drawings that are clearly labeled concept art'. Things that are totally and obviously not an issue to the average viewer, but a few may jump to assumed conclusions and start threads like this ....

    my sincere apologies purplegamer.
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  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,776 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    A Dyson Sphere constructed around a lower-bound Red Dwarf would be between 2 and 6 million km in radius, depending on variability (even if the star is somewhat stable it may be wise to build the sphere outside of this range anyway, as red dwarves are prone to fits of activity). A white dwarf is a poor choice, despite its low radius, it's mass and energy output is still very high, its habitable range is much higher.

    As for fighting over it: In Star Trek, a military grade starship can detect and track other starships at a range of several light years accurately - the Voth show immensely improved resolution over much longer ranges. The effective range of projectile weapons is on the interplanetary scale. The process of crossing the sphere would take a matter of moments.

    Ever race that enters the sphere will be aware of everyone else in it, and any attempt to explore it in peace would still have a web of ovelapping weapon ranges, with everyone tensely staring at their readouts waiting for the inevitable twitch that will set it all off. It would not last.
  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Didn't see the thread....oh well.
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    hevach wrote: »

    As for fighting over it: In Star Trek, a military grade starship can detect and track other starships at a range of several light years accurately - the Voth show immensely improved resolution over much longer ranges. The effective range of projectile weapons is on the interplanetary scale. The process of crossing the sphere would take a matter of moments.

    But why fight over it at all? If you need colonization room, there's plenty. If you're looking for new technology it is apparently laying about the place. If you are attempting simple denial of the same to every other empire that comes there, you certainly have your work cut out for you considering the scale of the construct.

    Even if you build it around smaller stars you will still have several million planet's worth of habitable space!
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    So what

    Haven't you noticed planets are smaller than space ships.

    ... and space isn't inifinte !!on1o1n I demand satfisfaction !NO!NO!N!O

    I say the same to all lore geeks; STO is not canon period. They can, will and have done whatever they want.

    If anything we need to go way, way, WAY back and ask why space is not in 3D and we aren't piloting from the bridge.

    Then we can start talking about replicators, ship holodecks and starfleet academy.
  • hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,776 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    baloq wrote: »
    But why fight over it at all? If you need colonization room, there's plenty. If you're looking for new technology it is apparently laying about the place. If you are attempting simple denial of the same to every other empire that comes there, you certainly have your work cut out for you considering the scale of the construct.

    Even if you build it around smaller stars you will still have several million planet's worth of habitable space!

    It's not a matter of colonization space.

    Strategic control could be a point - it's a potentially massive military resource, far beyond what any faction needs, but still something an enemy cannot be allowed to control during a war, even if it's shared.

    Then there's the fact that it will be a powder keg: Federation, KDF, Romulan Republic with conflicting loyalties, and Voth to start with. And depending on its location and means of reaching it, there's several factions already in game likely to show an interest: The Tal Shiar (and by extension their allies, Hirogen and Elachi) and the Tholians most notably. Also, depending on its location and means of access, there's plenty of new races that would share an interest in it.

    All of them fully aware of each other's presence, all able to reach and engage each other at the drop of a hat, and with all sorts of either recent or ongoing military conflicts, grudges, rivalries, and anger. All of them watching their sensors, interpreting the actions of each other through their personal conceptions and expectations.

    They will fight because somebody will blink. Somebody will make a mistake, somebody will get carried away, somebody will shake the hornet's nest. The situation is untenable, it will end in violence.
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2013
    Cripes people, it is JUST CONCEPT ART!

    The concept accentuated the curvature to make a point to the viewer that it's the interior of the sphere. That does not mean that the final maps will look anything like that.
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Cripes people, it is JUST CONCEPT ART!

    The concept accentuated the curvature to make a point to the viewer that it's the interior of the sphere. That does not mean that the final maps will look anything like that.
    Taco, if you burn yourself out dealing with irate fans what good is that going to do you?

    You should know by now that you can't please Trek fans. There's the group that wants everything to be more scientific - even though Trek dealt with very little actual science. There's the group that only loves TOS, or TNG, or whatever.

    No matter what you do there's always going to be a percentage of fans who want to poo-poo it, so it's best to not get to invested into what they say.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    found a sneak peak behind the scenes picture of the dyson sphere development.


    STO Dyson Sphere development, actual scale production - secret preview


    .
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  • ravinravin Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I would like to add that this is Science Fiction, intentional emphasis on the fiction part.
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  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Cripes people, it is JUST CONCEPT ART!

    The concept accentuated the curvature to make a point to the viewer that it's the interior of the sphere. That does not mean that the final maps will look anything like that.


    Okay, okay, okay, Taco. Calm down. Have some dip. :D

    I'm not really complaining, but at the same time I am. Perhaps I took the art too literally. As I said, I have a project I have been working on for a couple of years now dealing with a Type II Dyson Sphere. It is, in fact, a subject very close to heart and very much on my mind.

    Yes it is all concept art, and I know that oftentimes what is shown conceptually never sees screen time (for which, in a cross-cultural send-off, I will thank George Lucas for not using Ralph MacQuarrie's original artwork for the SW franchise.....<shivers> YEESH!).

    However, one thing I have noticed with STO is that the shared concept art is usually almost spot on with the finished project. Not that this is a bad thing! I, more than most I think (being a writer and artist myself) appreciate the work that goes into those drawings, and to see concept art that works without major modification is kinda cool!

    That being said, I really am excited about the forthcoming update! As I said, Dyson Spheres are a subject I am well versed in and all I want to see (aside from continued fantastic game play and development) is the sphere represented in a scientifically correct manner. As someone else said on the other Dyson thread, yeah we can bump into planets so I shouldn't take it so serious, but I can't help it, really.

    I have never complained about the devs or the writers or the artists involved with STO, not in earnest. I know how hard and complex the job is, and I appreciate the work you all have done. This is the only MMO I have ever played for more than 10 minutes, and I think it will be the only one I play for the duration of its run...although to be truthful if the Firefly MMO ever gets off the ground I might find myself splitting my time a bit...sorry, but truthful!
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    cgta1967 wrote: »
    found a sneak peak behind the scenes picture of the dyson sphere development.


    STO Dyson Sphere development, actual scale production - secret preview


    .

    LOL! Thank you, that was damnably funny, all things considered.
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • atatassaultatatassault Member Posts: 1,008 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    For a person getting up in arms about technicalities, it's surprising that you aren't complaining the actual structure Dyson envisioned was an array of satellites.
  • purplegamerpurplegamer Member Posts: 1,015 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    For a person getting up in arms about technicalities, it's surprising that you aren't complaining the actual structure Dyson envisioned was an array of satellites.

    I was wondering that too. Dyson originally imagined a network of satellites--not an enclosed space.
  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I was wondering that too. Dyson originally imagined a network of satellites--not an enclosed space.

    The huge array of solar orbiting solar power satellites was, indeed, Freeman Dyson's original concept, but the enclosed shell came soon after by Dyson as well as others, some of whom had misinterpreted his original concept. The distinction was made to refer to Dyson's original concept as a Type I Dyson Sphere and to the contiguous shell concept as a Type II Dyson Sphere.

    In many sci-fi instances, the difference is lost or unknown by the writer, and so the 100% correct nomenclature is not used. Over the decades, the "Dyson Sphere" that has become known to legions of science-fiction fans is the Type II and so that's what it has come to mean.

    Like calling any photocopy a Xerox, any facial tissue a Kleenex, or any pair of tongue-and-groove pliers Chanel-locks.

    I can be a huge grammar TRIBBLE at times, but I came out the gate with this thread seeming to be a real pain in the rear, and that wasn't really my intention.
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    baloq wrote: »
    ....
    I can be a huge grammar TRIBBLE at times, but I came out the gate with this thread seeming to be a real pain in the rear, and that wasn't really my intention.

    it was all in the timing baloq.

    when you created this thread, there was a huge debate going on over in the other thread about how people are jumping to conclusions just by viewing 'concept art' alone and assuming it had 'anything' to do with what the final product will be.

    if you had posted your OP in that thread, it would have just been part of the conversation.

    /
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  • baloqbaloq Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    cgta1967 wrote: »
    it was all in the timing baloq.

    when you created this thread, there was a huge debate going on over in the other thread about how people are jumping to conclusions just by viewing 'concept art' alone and assuming it had 'anything' to do with what the final product will be.

    if you had posted your OP in that thread, it would have just been part of the conversation.

    /

    Maybe, but I finally found that other thread and read through it and I saw where that one went...no sir-ee! :D

    But as it is, with both threads I got some answers that I wanted, but there is still so much unknown that it just bugs me. I'm just gonna hafta wait until the next season opens up...or take sneak peeks over on 'tribble'.

    Because of how close this is to my own work I just want to see it done right, ya' know?
    The reputation system got nerfed to prevent "power creep"; it's called an investment in time and money, and I think I should get a little something for my time and money like being able to stomp the TRIBBLE out of a new guy since I've been playing for three years now! :D
  • edwardianededwardianed Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I just assumed that seeing as a Dyson Sphere orbits (or surrounds, I suppose) a star, that it just had a small star.

    The smallest star is only the size of Mercury, so it's not like it's unfeasible.
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited August 2013
    A hurricane is a hurricane regardless of what type (class) it is is. So regardless if its a Type I or Type II it is still a Dyson Sphere. Worrying about what type it is is a pointless worry.

    As for the energy from the sun, well thats the whole point of a Dyson Sphere, to collect all the energy the sun produces because the advanced civilization that built the sphere requires all of it.

    I am sure if a civilization is advanced enough to build one then all the issues about maintaining an atmosphere, weather, seasons, and huge buildings the size of jupiter is taught in that societies version of high school. But whatever nerd rage on.
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  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    baloq wrote: »
    ....Because of how close this is to my own work I just want to see it done right, ya' know?

    I understand, but all you really have to do is remember that you can headbutt a planet with your ship in STO.


    don't try to get anymore out of it than that and you'll have fun.
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  • kyeto13kyeto13 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    baloq wrote: »
    Now, when we look at some of the concept art, we can see the actual curvature of the sphere.

    Point refuted. It's concept art. It only function is to look badass and give the devs and the players a concept of what it looks like. It does NOT have to be scientifically accurate.

    Also, since when has Star Trek been part of the hard science fiction model. I think it is more space opera than a hard sciecne fiction
    baloq wrote: »
    My point here is that if the curvature of the sphere is as pronounced as it is shown in the concept art and the structures shown are as detailed and visible than all of those very large towers would be larger than the planet Jupiter. They would have collapsed in on themselves due to their own gravity!

    And matter cannot exceed the speed of light or else Einstein will roll in his grave. :rolleyes: It's Science fiction, dude. We have NO idea what kind of material sciences or construction the Sphere Builders (No relation to ENT) might have. Maybe they use force fields on a massive scale to hold them, or they use some sort of gravic or mass effecting field to lessen the stress load on the structure. We don't know and you cannot assume that based on one fancy piece of artwork. :rolleyes:
    Sybok: The people of your planet once believed their world was flat. Columbus proved it was round. They said the sound barrier could never be broken. [shrugs] It was broken. They said warp speed could not be achieved.
    baloq wrote: »
    technology not too far in advance of that used in the Alpha/Beta quadrants.

    Also, another, more awesome quote from Arthur C Clarke...
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

    Why cap yourself at the Alpha/Beta quadrant tech? This Sphere was built a long time ago by another civilization. They might have been farther along the technological chain than us. Maybe that is why they could have built a DYSON SPHERE!

    I know that I am just dualing with a ragenerd and that doing so is futile. But the Line has to be drawn somewhere :P
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  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,164 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    baloq wrote: »
    To see the curvature of the Earth (albeit a convex curvature rather than a concave one) one must be near 11,000 meters (35,000 feet) or above. This will show you the shape of the world. However, when you flatten that world out and paste it along with 556 million other worlds, all you will see is flatness. Even assuming you went as high as 1000 km above the surface of the sphere, everything below you would still seem flat...you would not catch any hint at all of the curved structure inside of which you fly. It's just too darned huge to see it.

    This is wrong wrong wrong wrong.

    We can see with the naked eye light from Sol reflected off of planets over 9 AU away from
    Earth. This means something as massive as a Dysons Sphere, which is never more than 2 AU away from us at the most, we would be able to see entirely except for that which is obfuscated by the glare of local Star as well as the area directly behind the star. That means at some point you will see the sphere curve up seemingly toward the star it surrounds.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,548 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    If a race is advanced enough to create a Dyson Sphere, then they are advanced enough to do it around any type of star without the occupants noticing differences. Doesn't matter if it is a White Dwarf or Red Giant or any variation inbetween. Curvature is not really a concern since they could go about the normal method of not fooling the eyes so you can see the surface on the other side of the Dyson Sphere and subjected to day all the time or they could follow the whole Day/Night cycle with various technological tricks and make it so the curvature is pretty much non-existent. The Dyson Sphere has to have some form of atmosphere for at least the inner surface and chances are that it will be some form of barrier to keep in the air and trick the occupant's bodies to experience their regular Day/Night schedule. Could even have various areas for different species with different needs.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    the day night cycle would be easy....just have an inner array of high energy collectors orbiting the star....when the array is between the outer civilization surfaces and the star....you have night. works as an eclipse.
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  • inkrunnerinkrunner Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I sometimes think that people forget that stars come in different sizes, which means that Dyson Spheres would come in different sizes as well.

    For instance, Red Dwarfs, the smallest stars we've seen, have anything from 50% to as little as 7.5% of the Sun's mass (and the Sun is dwarfed itself by stars like Supergiants and Hypergiants). The smallest star discovered to date is a Red Dwarf (OGLE-TR-122b) with a radius of 167,000km. OGLE-TR-122b has a habitable zone of approximately 0.072 AU, so let's do the math (based on the values you provided, OP. Thank you.):

    149,597,870.7km(AU)*0.072=10,771,046.6904km

    10,771,046.6904km+167,000km=10,938,046.6904km

    4*pi*10,938,046.6904^2=1,503,451,455,256,281.990634290526879km^2

    1,503,451,455,256,281.990634290526879km^2/510,072,000km^2=2,947,527.9083272204524739458877942, or about 2,947,528 times the surface area of Earth. This is a much more reasonable figure for an empire with access to galactic scale resources, although the original, Earth orbit scale is still not impossible with those kinds of supplies.

    Alternatively, a if a race is advanced enough to be able to create an example of self sustaining atomic fusion at a smaller scale (a manufactured micro-star), the size of the Dyson Sphere becomes as arbitrary as the size of the micro-star.
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  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    edited August 2013
    To be clear, if you just want to discuss how a Dyson sphere would function/work/look like/etc. I'm ALL FOR IT. I will gladly talk to you about such things, because we on the team discuss them CONSTANTLY these days.

    However, this thread started with a post longer than can fit on my monitor, declaring 'ticked off' you were because of how we'd gotten it all wrong. It's hard to not take that as a personal attack.


    Just as a referesher;

    Here's the Concept Art for New Romulus

    And here's a screenshot of New Romulus


    While there are many elements you can see represented in both, clearly the end result is not an exact match for the concept.
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  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Someone once pointed it out, why would you invest all that resource into building the sphere if the sun's gonna explode? No sane civilization would build around a G-star unless they have the ability to move stars without worrying about mass in the way or other stuff like that.

    They'd build around brown or red dwarfs. Some have the ability to go red giant though. It wouldn't be very big, compared to a G star, but they'd have to defend less space.

    You ask about the environment? Spinning metal at what? 100,000 kph? That'll generate a field! It's also heavy. Remember, to build this, you'll need a strong carbon alloy, the stuff found in white dwarfs.

    Climates? Meh, just build mountains and create valleys. Add large bodies of water at various points and bam, you're creating a climate. You won't have seasons. You don't want seasons.

    You'd want to build around a weak star for several reasons. weak solar flares, low amount of radiation and stuff like that that the star pours out. You want the sphere to be able to withstand it.

    As for day and night you'll never get it with a natural star. Sorry, but developing an eclipse still gives you twilight. Too big of a barrier and you'll cool the dark side of the sphere down, and anything that big will have to spin real fast.
  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Yes, this was concerning me, to a point where I may have to stop playing STO if they mess up the Dyson Sphere.

    BUT STO; PLEASE DO NOT MAKE A SILLY MATHEMATICAL ERROR,

    I BEG OF YOU!


    I can only hope that the real thing is better than the Concept art.

    =======================


    I suppose it depends on the Star.


    Find a small one! :D:cool::)
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Someone once pointed it out, why would you invest all that resource into building the sphere if the sun's gonna explode? No sane civilization would build around a G-star unless they have the ability to move stars without worrying about mass in the way or other stuff like that.

    It's not implausible to think that if you have the technology to build a Dyson Sphere, then you might also have the technology to manage a star's life-cycle proactively.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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