The point was that expecting story "closure" in a fictional setting is unrealistic.
A serialized one, at least. Star Trek itself has a lot of dangling plot lines and retcons, and even the best series finales never quite tie up everything. It's how you ensure an audience will come back for the next installment, in turn making it possible to get that next installment.
The point was that expecting story "closure" in a fictional setting is unrealistic.
Why ?
DS9 did it . So did B5 , Farscape , and to a lesser degree TNG , BSG , VOY , Enterprise .
"Closure" in a TV series does not mean no more adventures , nor does it mean leaving you without a sense of loss . If you're emtionally invested , you will feel a sense of loss .
Closure means saying goodbye in a fitting meaningful way , trying to tie up as many plot points as possible while giving all major/minor participants their due .
I don't know about closure but they do need flashpoint moments on the order of ********'s Wrathgate where existing plot lines come together and shift direction.
For example, an Iconian FE series where we deal with Taris again, the Undine, the Elachi, and maybe encounter some familiar characters from the leveling curve.
It's not that plots need to end but they need to shift direction.
I'd like it if, for example, the Undine Terradome revamp ends with the Undine discovering they were duped, retracting their agents in the Fed and KDF, and deciding to focus on infiltrating the Tal Shiar.
Maybe along the way, it turns out the Federation President was an Undine and we can have a Federation Election event.
Maybe something related KDF side to stir things up: Howabout this?
Everybody suspects J'mpok but that would be cliche. What if the Martok killed by J'mpok was an Undine?
The true Martok lives. And is still arguably chancellor.
So the Feds are gearing up for an election, with a mix of candidates, and the Klingons are presented with J'mpok vs. Martok round two, deciding who to back.
And then we do some other stuff while the devs work up a Fed/KDF FE series that deals with the winner of the J'mpok/Martok battle and the winner of the Fed elections meeting up. The combination of the two will determine what happens to the war beyond Vice Admiral.
So you could end up with Martok wanting peace... And a warmonger gets elected Fed side.
Basically, Cryptic could have a chart of the two leadership skirmish event outcomes and the combination determines what happens.
Run it similar to the summer/winter events with a daily mission and a special event rep project that lets players build up resources, with the final project casting a vote.
Maybe for extra fun, every candidate has a unique unlock when you vote for them, with only one vote per character.
So you have a special J'mpok baldric, a special Martok baldric, and T-shirts for each Fed candidate so you can show off who you backed, even if they don't win. T-shirts could be something Thomas could whip up as a texture for the McCoy surgical shirt.
For Fed president, I'd like to see Riker, a Vulcan diplomat, a hologram, and maybe some other popular candidates of different types run. One choice per character, showcasing your choice, win or lose.
Just to keep things interesting, maybe have Riker's daughter get injured in a Klingon attack. So he's running on the platform that the Klingons cannot be trusted.
So the Feds have an interesting choice. If they vote Riker, the war continues. Voting against Riker AND the Klingons backing Martok is the only way to end the war. That would keep the contest more heated.
I don't know about closure but they do need flashpoint moments on the order of ********'s Wrathgate where existing plot lines come together and shift direction.
For example, an Iconian FE series where we deal with Taris again, the Undine, the Elachi, and maybe encounter some familiar characters from the leveling curve.
It's not that plots need to end but they need to shift direction.
I'd like it if, for example, the Undine Terradome revamp ends with the Undine discovering they were duped, retracting their agents in the Fed and KDF, and deciding to focus on infiltrating the Tal Shiar.
Maybe along the way, it turns out the Federation President was an Undine and we can have a Federation Election event.
Maybe something related KDF side to stir things up: Howabout this?
Everybody suspects J'mpok but that would be cliche. What if the Martok killed by J'mpok was an Undine?
The true Martok lives. And is still arguably chancellor.
So the Feds are gearing up for an election, with a mix of candidates, and the Klingons are presented with J'mpok vs. Martok round two, deciding who to back.
And then we do some other stuff while the devs work up a Fed/KDF FE series that deals with the winner of the J'mpok/Martok battle and the winner of the Fed elections meeting up. The combination of the two will determine what happens to the war beyond Vice Admiral.
So you could end up with Martok wanting peace... And a warmonger gets elected Fed side.
Basically, Cryptic could have a chart of the two leadership skirmish event outcomes and the combination determines what happens.
Run it similar to the summer/winter events with a daily mission and a special event rep project that lets players build up resources, with the final project casting a vote.
Maybe for extra fun, every candidate has a unique unlock when you vote for them, with only one vote per character.
So you have a special J'mpok baldric, a special Martok baldric, and T-shirts for each Fed candidate so you can show off who you backed, even if they don't win. T-shirts could be something Thomas could whip up as a texture for the McCoy surgical shirt.
For Fed president, I'd like to see Riker, a Vulcan diplomat, a hologram, and maybe some other popular candidates of different types run. One choice per character, showcasing your choice, win or lose.
I like that idea of Martok being an Undine. Would give Cryptic a golden opportunity to make a FE around Undine diplomacy and having a surprise at the end, where we find out Martok is still alive. Which alone would be awesome since that gives JG Herzler the chance to reprise his role.
Then months later, they would come out with a storyline expansion that dwells into Martok's return and us getting a viewpoint from all three factions and the ramifications of the changes.
And the voting would be an interesting take, where players could show whom they support. Giving players the powers to choose STO future and drive the storyline.
DS9 did it . So did B5 , Farscape , and to a lesser degree TNG , BSG , VOY , Enterprise .
"Closure" in a TV series does not mean no more adventures , nor does it mean leaving you without a sense of loss . If you're emtionally invested , you will feel a sense of loss .
Closure means saying goodbye in a fitting meaningful way , trying to tie up as many plot points as possible while giving all major/minor participants their due .
Did they? really? How many unfinished plot threads got left dangling? Sure they did the main, big ones.... not much else.
What do they mean by intergrating Boffs more into the story and elvating doffs?
Maybe promoting them to bridge officers?
As far as Boffs, it's probably similar to what you see in LoR where they have backstories and personalities, and are more integrated into the adventures.
For Doffs, it might just mean a pop-up with a Doff telling you they've completed the mission. We'll get more info in Dev blogs in a few months, though.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That sounds like PvP. Which means that we are now working together in Omega, on Nukara and on New Romulus, but fight in a Dyson Sphere. I guess what happens in a Dyson Sphere stays in a Dyson Sphere.
If the Dyson Sphere constitutes basically limitless resources and control of highly advanced technologies, then yes I can see everybody fighting over it even as they work together to beat back the Borg/Undine/Tholians/Iconians on other fronts.
I admit it's not entirely rational. You'd think if they could agree on one thing they could find reasons to agree on others. Like, "If we work together to control the Dyson Sphere, we can end the Borg and Iconian threats for good." That would be a pretty compelling reason for Red and Blue to set aside their differences.
So whether it works or not in the game is going to depend on the plot devices they use to justify it. It's still going to be silly if you stop and think about it, but it could work from a gameplay perspective.
And it could lead the way to other areas where there's Territory Control, such as contested border worlds.
I don't need Cryptic giving my officers back stories. I can do that on my own, their stories conflict with mine.
I don't need Cryptic forcing their BOffs into my story.
I don't need Cryptic forcing my character to have their story.
All of my characters have a story. All of their important BOffs have back stories. It was harder to do with my Romulan characters because of Toven. What is with this new rash of forcing BOff and character back stories? It's annoying.
It pretty much goes back to the basic problem of how to tell a cohesive and continuous story that works for every player when there are few or no common elements to hook a plot to.
If they put words into somebody's pet BOFF's mouth, they're going to tick them off. Likewise if they make any assumptions about a player's customized BOFF's background or motivations. So even if they had the tech to kinda-sorta modify how your BOFF interacts with the story based on criteria provided by the player, it's a no-win situation for Cryptic. They already do this in some missions and I've seen people complaining about it lots of times.
A second option is to liberally put in throwaway NPC's that you're forced to interact with in certain instances. Doable, but with less continuity or emotional involvement on the part of the player... unless the NPC is Franklin Drake whom everyone pretty much hates universally. Well, they do this too. Alexander/K'mtar is one example where they do a good job with this. Nothing wrong with it, unless that's the only kind of NPC they put in their missions.
Giving players a free BOFF that the writers can reuse in every mission is yet another alternative. It would be better if they gave you a free BOFF slot with that mandatory BOFF. But the writer doesn't have to worry as much about the 'voice' for that character because they control it. And it also allows them to create some plot tension where the writer is free to imagine your bridge officer having an argument with you.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
As far as Boffs, it's probably similar to what you see in LoR where they have backstories and personalities, and are more integrated into the adventures.
Mine DO have backstories and personalities.
Cryptic integrating them into canon stories? Yes please. Cryptic forcing more Tovan Khevs on us? Heeeell no.
Cryptic integrating them into canon stories? Yes please. Cryptic forcing more Tovan Khevs on us? Heeeell no.
Well, as was just said above by Bluegeek, everyone wants something different and you can't please everyone.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
As far as Boffs, it's probably similar to what you see in LoR where they have backstories and personalities, and are more integrated into the adventures.
For Doffs, it might just mean a pop-up with a Doff telling you they've completed the mission. We'll get more info in Dev blogs in a few months, though.
Do you mean Legacy of Romulus or Lord of the Rings?
Well not like we are surprised given the leaks for weeks that the Voth were the S8 enemies. Cryptic tends to be bad at keeping secrets.
But honestly, I don't like the idea the Voth being the S8 enemies. Outside of being prideful, they weren't really a villian. And I really don't want to see the plot go that they accepted Earth as their home and decided to reclaim it - by force. It's starting to get cheesy that the plot of STO is - the Federation pissed off everyone in the Galaxy.
Would've made more sense the Vaadaur being the villians, since they have a legitimate excuse to get revenge.
Well I haven't seen confirmation of this yet, but I'm weary of Territory Control, even though this game really needed it. Cryptic's handling of PvP in STO has been dismal, and to suddenly throw us into it seems like a bad idea. Especially how they tend to ignore new content after they fixed the bugs, just look at the Foundry and Fleet Starbases. (Still waiting on their promise to help small fleets a year ago).
LOL.. I tend to agree about the Feds going about doing nothing more than making everyone hate them... the Voth are more complex than I think the STO game can fully represent, but we'll see what story they can put into them. They're not particularly villainous as represented so we'll see.
And I really hope this new space adventure zone isn't a "try to run through the cheesy objectives and wait for a PVPer to decloak when you're low on health" crapfest like Kerrat. PVP isn't fun and mixing in AI enemies and other objectives into it makes it even less fun...
Do you mean Legacy of Romulus or Lord of the Rings?
The official abbreviation for Lord of the Rings Online is LotRO, not LoR.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Well, as was just said above by Bluegeek, everyone wants something different and you can't please everyone.
I think it's good that they have different ways of mixing things up, as long as they don't rely too heavily on one or the other.
If they told EVERY future story through the mandatory BOFF, that wouldn't be very good. But for the "tutorials" it works quite well and as long as they don't overuse it I'm okay with it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
They don't need to make a 900 year technological leap, only a couple of centuries. Each race has a different speed for technology. Just look at us. It has been only the last few hundred years that we have progressed at a good speed. Before that our progression was at a snail's pace. The problem is that there technology is about 900 years old. Even then, the Vaadwaur are not going to be a threat in STO unless some other race helps them or they steal technology. They could always end up as some minor enemy that we encounter like those enemies that are only seen in the Explore missions.
Not only that. Not every race in the galaxy starts at the same level and progresses in the same fields of science in the same pace.
We don't know whether or not the Vaadwaur were quite as advanced as the Federation of the 25th Century on "some" fields.
The stuff may be 900 years old, but they surely did not forget how to build it - and they are crafty people.
Filling in the gaps to reach Federation standard is within the scope of their possibilities.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
A serialized one, at least. Star Trek itself has a lot of dangling plot lines and retcons, and even the best series finales never quite tie up everything. It's how you ensure an audience will come back for the next installment, in turn making it possible to get that next installment.
And there I was, hoping for a Beryllium Sphere. I mean, after the Rule 62 console, I'd figured this game was ready for the Omega 13 Device. :P
Why ?
DS9 did it . So did B5 , Farscape , and to a lesser degree TNG , BSG , VOY , Enterprise .
"Closure" in a TV series does not mean no more adventures , nor does it mean leaving you without a sense of loss . If you're emtionally invested , you will feel a sense of loss .
Closure means saying goodbye in a fitting meaningful way , trying to tie up as many plot points as possible while giving all major/minor participants their due .
For example, an Iconian FE series where we deal with Taris again, the Undine, the Elachi, and maybe encounter some familiar characters from the leveling curve.
It's not that plots need to end but they need to shift direction.
I'd like it if, for example, the Undine Terradome revamp ends with the Undine discovering they were duped, retracting their agents in the Fed and KDF, and deciding to focus on infiltrating the Tal Shiar.
Maybe along the way, it turns out the Federation President was an Undine and we can have a Federation Election event.
Maybe something related KDF side to stir things up: Howabout this?
Everybody suspects J'mpok but that would be cliche. What if the Martok killed by J'mpok was an Undine?
The true Martok lives. And is still arguably chancellor.
So the Feds are gearing up for an election, with a mix of candidates, and the Klingons are presented with J'mpok vs. Martok round two, deciding who to back.
And then we do some other stuff while the devs work up a Fed/KDF FE series that deals with the winner of the J'mpok/Martok battle and the winner of the Fed elections meeting up. The combination of the two will determine what happens to the war beyond Vice Admiral.
So you could end up with Martok wanting peace... And a warmonger gets elected Fed side.
Basically, Cryptic could have a chart of the two leadership skirmish event outcomes and the combination determines what happens.
Run it similar to the summer/winter events with a daily mission and a special event rep project that lets players build up resources, with the final project casting a vote.
Maybe for extra fun, every candidate has a unique unlock when you vote for them, with only one vote per character.
So you have a special J'mpok baldric, a special Martok baldric, and T-shirts for each Fed candidate so you can show off who you backed, even if they don't win. T-shirts could be something Thomas could whip up as a texture for the McCoy surgical shirt.
For Fed president, I'd like to see Riker, a Vulcan diplomat, a hologram, and maybe some other popular candidates of different types run. One choice per character, showcasing your choice, win or lose.
So the Feds have an interesting choice. If they vote Riker, the war continues. Voting against Riker AND the Klingons backing Martok is the only way to end the war. That would keep the contest more heated.
That would make a great KDF mission or a KDF only STF to rescue Martok
I like that idea of Martok being an Undine. Would give Cryptic a golden opportunity to make a FE around Undine diplomacy and having a surprise at the end, where we find out Martok is still alive. Which alone would be awesome since that gives JG Herzler the chance to reprise his role.
Then months later, they would come out with a storyline expansion that dwells into Martok's return and us getting a viewpoint from all three factions and the ramifications of the changes.
And the voting would be an interesting take, where players could show whom they support. Giving players the powers to choose STO future and drive the storyline.
Wouldn't it be ironic of Martok that was killed was Undine and that they had the real Martok stashed away somewhere?
Edit: ... Looks like a few others have had this same thought.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
My character Tsin'xing
Maybe promoting them to bridge officers?
For Doffs, it might just mean a pop-up with a Doff telling you they've completed the mission. We'll get more info in Dev blogs in a few months, though.
If the Dyson Sphere constitutes basically limitless resources and control of highly advanced technologies, then yes I can see everybody fighting over it even as they work together to beat back the Borg/Undine/Tholians/Iconians on other fronts.
I admit it's not entirely rational. You'd think if they could agree on one thing they could find reasons to agree on others. Like, "If we work together to control the Dyson Sphere, we can end the Borg and Iconian threats for good." That would be a pretty compelling reason for Red and Blue to set aside their differences.
So whether it works or not in the game is going to depend on the plot devices they use to justify it. It's still going to be silly if you stop and think about it, but it could work from a gameplay perspective.
And it could lead the way to other areas where there's Territory Control, such as contested border worlds.
It pretty much goes back to the basic problem of how to tell a cohesive and continuous story that works for every player when there are few or no common elements to hook a plot to.
If they put words into somebody's pet BOFF's mouth, they're going to tick them off. Likewise if they make any assumptions about a player's customized BOFF's background or motivations. So even if they had the tech to kinda-sorta modify how your BOFF interacts with the story based on criteria provided by the player, it's a no-win situation for Cryptic. They already do this in some missions and I've seen people complaining about it lots of times.
A second option is to liberally put in throwaway NPC's that you're forced to interact with in certain instances. Doable, but with less continuity or emotional involvement on the part of the player... unless the NPC is Franklin Drake whom everyone pretty much hates universally. Well, they do this too. Alexander/K'mtar is one example where they do a good job with this. Nothing wrong with it, unless that's the only kind of NPC they put in their missions.
Giving players a free BOFF that the writers can reuse in every mission is yet another alternative. It would be better if they gave you a free BOFF slot with that mandatory BOFF. But the writer doesn't have to worry as much about the 'voice' for that character because they control it. And it also allows them to create some plot tension where the writer is free to imagine your bridge officer having an argument with you.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Cryptic integrating them into canon stories? Yes please. Cryptic forcing more Tovan Khevs on us? Heeeell no.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Do you mean Legacy of Romulus or Lord of the Rings?
LOL.. I tend to agree about the Feds going about doing nothing more than making everyone hate them... the Voth are more complex than I think the STO game can fully represent, but we'll see what story they can put into them. They're not particularly villainous as represented so we'll see.
And I really hope this new space adventure zone isn't a "try to run through the cheesy objectives and wait for a PVPer to decloak when you're low on health" crapfest like Kerrat. PVP isn't fun and mixing in AI enemies and other objectives into it makes it even less fun...
Captain Ariel Trueheart Department of Temporal Investigations
U.S.S. Valkyrie - NCC 991701
=/\= ================================= =/\=
I think it's good that they have different ways of mixing things up, as long as they don't rely too heavily on one or the other.
If they told EVERY future story through the mandatory BOFF, that wouldn't be very good. But for the "tutorials" it works quite well and as long as they don't overuse it I'm okay with it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Not only that. Not every race in the galaxy starts at the same level and progresses in the same fields of science in the same pace.
We don't know whether or not the Vaadwaur were quite as advanced as the Federation of the 25th Century on "some" fields.
The stuff may be 900 years old, but they surely did not forget how to build it - and they are crafty people.
Filling in the gaps to reach Federation standard is within the scope of their possibilities.