We have the embassy and mine provisions you can replicate with fleet credits, Why not just have those for base provisions and you must donate X amount to a personal project to get a provision for yourself to use in one of the facilities. This way each individual will be responsible for getting provisions for themselves and the fleet would never have to worry about someone new coming along and using up all the provisions then leaving.
As for replacing provision projects to earn FC after the fleet is T5 and finished there could be repair and maintanence projects as well as supply projects that are simply an FC generator. These should only become available once all holdings are completed.
This would remove provision projects during the fleet leveling so those resources could be put to leveling the fleet holdings. Provisions would be each individuals so if they do not contribute enough to the fleet they cannot earn a provision wich gets more people contributing. More contribute the easier it is for everyone.
First off the provisions should not gate access to top level stuff. Fleet credits will prevent a lot of soaking of provisions by non-contributors. Especially when you look at the doffs and other items you can buy without provisions that cost a lot of fleet credits. Now this is moot if the fleet policy is to allow new people instant access to stores.
The real disadvantage to smaller fleets is the relative cost of provisions to the starbase upgrade. I continue to advocate, though there is slim chance, for provisions to be much more expensive and the starbase upgrades to be much cheaper. This permits large fleets rapid starbase development, but pay for their relative larger provision needs while smaller fleets would move through the base faster too, but have less requirements on them for provisions. Right now small fleets cant spend all their fleet credits on provisions because they have such high levels of contributions.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
First off the provisions should not gate access to top level stuff. Fleet credits will prevent a lot of soaking of provisions by non-contributors. Especially when you look at the doffs and other items you can buy without provisions that cost a lot of fleet credits. Now this is moot if the fleet policy is to allow new people instant access to stores.
The real disadvantage to smaller fleets is the relative cost of provisions to the starbase upgrade. I continue to advocate, though there is slim chance, for provisions to be much more expensive and the starbase upgrades to be much cheaper. This permits large fleets rapid starbase development, but pay for their relative larger provision needs while smaller fleets would move through the base faster too, but have less requirements on them for provisions. Right now small fleets cant spend all their fleet credits on provisions because they have such high levels of contributions.
If the provisions were done like I outlined 2 posts above yours then it removes the headache from the fleet to the individual. Use FC to replicate a provision or get them from a doff assignment and put those into a personal project and after so many you earn the right to buy an item. This would only have the affect on buying items that do not require a provision to be a choice of "Am i wanting to buy that fleet warpcore or buy this DOFF?". Most likely do a couple more fleet alerts and a mine trap to get both is what people will do.
Removing the provisioning from fleet holdings as I outlined has the added benifit of not losing resources for leveling the holding to provisioning it. Individual players are responsible for creating there own provisions if they have enough FC so it is 100% fair. And has a way to make FC after the holding is maxed out with a new project or set of projects to maintain the holding.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
As a leader in a small fleet, if I may suggest an off the wall method of "fixing" this problem...
There is a mission called "Basic _________ Provisioning". Said mission runs on a 1/2 hour (30 minute) timer, and provides the "tier appropriate" amount of ship/science/engineering provisions that the standard provisioning mission would provide.
However, said mission costs like 200,000 dilithium to run at tier 1 (5 provision) levels, and might cost more with the advanced bases. Also, said mission does not advance the base any, so it's not one that gets slotted and forgotten about, it's designed to be slotted, filled ASAP, and the provisions used... Heck, sounds darn close to "personal" provisions, doesn't it???
However, if there is a member / small subset of members that are that desperate for provisions, these members should be able to convince fleet leadership to slot one of these into the chain, so that as soon as it appears the desperate member(s) can fill it, wait the 1/2 hour for the provisions to come live, then immediately spend them. Also, with the 1/2 hour cooldown, the slot comes free relatively quick, the only delay being from when the previous mission ends till the desperate group comes online to fill it.
If not, then the usual methods of fleet control can come into play, including the "taking of ball and going to a new playground (fleet)" method of control...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Thats 200k dilithium that could be used for holding advancement and provisioning should not take away from advancement. Using FC to get personal provisions means getting the provisions themselves does more holding advancement than the present system because players must donate more to the fleet to get the provisions and FC to buy the items. The current fleetwide provisions can be abused and do get abused so making the provisions personal then that eliminates that problem. You can swap fleets all day long and buy from the holdings they have without donating to them as long as you have enough personal provisions, FC, and dilithium. Example, you join a fleet and donate 1 million worth of FC then the fleet leader disbands the fleet, so you join another fleet donate nothing if theres no donate X amount rule, or donate just enough to gain access and then use all the provisions leaving everyone else with none and you leave the fleet right after. my system proposal eliminates that risk completely.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I wholeheartedly support the abolition of fleet provisions. It's hard enough being in a small fleet to simply progress the base, let alone get provisions. Heck our fleet has been grinding the starbase since it launched and yet we only eventually got some provisions in for the first time last week, they were gone in a day because two of us got some nice new weapons for our ships.
Not only that, but the provisions require an absurd amount of Dilithium and then we have to spend more dilithium to buy things from the fleet store. I really think that the provisions should be scrapped or at the very least turned into a personal rep project that DOES NOT require dilithium.
Provisions are very possibly the most sh*t thing about fleet bases. Right next to the absurd dilithium costs.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Personally Fleet Provisions have never really bothered me. I'm in a small fleet but we've managed to keep the supply of provisions ahead of the demand while also getting decent progression (almost at Tier 4). the fleet leaders simply slot provision missions whenever we are low on something or if we have a free slot (such as while waiting for an upgrade mission to complete.
I admit the OP has a point here if you are in a bad fleet.
I think the whole problem can be solved by making the provisioning a personal matter.
Let's say, add an extra personal project slot in the fleet UI that get unlocked when your rank has access to the stores. You can then slot the type of provision project you want to buy just like in a Reputation project. Fill that project, get the provision then buy your stuff. Problem solved.
But i doubt will see anything like this since Cryptic is not interested in making things that don't bring $$ easily.
I think personal provisions is a great way to go. They can keep the fleet provisions but personal provisions should cost the same as fleet ones for your base's tier (or some ratio thereof) but exclude fleet marks and therefore exclude XP contributed to that holding sub-tier.
My fleet is very small so we don't have that issue of handing them out but I do agree with the OP it is an issue. The solution to me is a combination of personal and fleet wide provisions just that personal ones should not give XP since your not helping the fleet but as mentioned about should not cost you fleet marks (all other costs should be the same or some ratio thereof).
In my fleet, if the stores are left open, provisions clear out faster than they can be refilled- we have to choose between advancing the fleet XP or provisioning full time.
On the other hand, closing the stores pisses people off and makes them stop contributing, because then they don't feel like they're getting anything for their contributions.
I think you guys are missing the point the OP is trying to get across, he not from my understanding saying the fleet leaders are in the wrong, rather they are in a bad position to start with and making the best of it.
I as a fleet leader of a large fleet couldnt agree more with what he is proposing.
Currently we use a contributions based system to access fleet provisions.
20k in total contributions and you can be promoted to buy goods temporarily. This can temp promotion can be granted by anyone holding the "Agent" rank within the fleet.
300k in donations gets you Agent rank.
Since these ranks work solely on contributions it does eliminate any sort of favoritism and essentially acts as a self policed situation.
In my our fleet we have MANY agents, this eliminates the facade of leadership controlling starbase assets. In our fleet this system seems to work. We are on the verge of a t5 starbase, a complete embassy and a upgrading to t2 as we speak dil mine.
Why its utter BS...
Cryptics value on certain items is an absolute joke. Fleet Marks worth more than dilithium is nuts, the value put on dil has rightfully made people less likely to contribute it.
Doffs, 150 marks each? Considering the cost of them on the exchange or the effort of having to use the dulltastic doff grinder.
Clearly if the current system is here to stay some values need tweaking...
If we didnt have teh burden of paying for provisions then paying again to use the provision that youve contributed to is nuts, this cost and the finite amount of resources is FORCING this situation upon its users.
Free provisions, or rather A SINGLE PRICED provision would enable us leader to check "has fleet store access" to all ranks without a care in the world!
I like the part where a fleet weapon costs 20000 credits and 9600 dilithium
Oh and the purple embassy boffs costing about as much as the adapted maco set in terms of dilithium and marks (different marks but you get where im going with this) each.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Comments
Agree 100%
The real disadvantage to smaller fleets is the relative cost of provisions to the starbase upgrade. I continue to advocate, though there is slim chance, for provisions to be much more expensive and the starbase upgrades to be much cheaper. This permits large fleets rapid starbase development, but pay for their relative larger provision needs while smaller fleets would move through the base faster too, but have less requirements on them for provisions. Right now small fleets cant spend all their fleet credits on provisions because they have such high levels of contributions.
If the provisions were done like I outlined 2 posts above yours then it removes the headache from the fleet to the individual. Use FC to replicate a provision or get them from a doff assignment and put those into a personal project and after so many you earn the right to buy an item. This would only have the affect on buying items that do not require a provision to be a choice of "Am i wanting to buy that fleet warpcore or buy this DOFF?". Most likely do a couple more fleet alerts and a mine trap to get both is what people will do.
Removing the provisioning from fleet holdings as I outlined has the added benifit of not losing resources for leveling the holding to provisioning it. Individual players are responsible for creating there own provisions if they have enough FC so it is 100% fair. And has a way to make FC after the holding is maxed out with a new project or set of projects to maintain the holding.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
There is a mission called "Basic _________ Provisioning". Said mission runs on a 1/2 hour (30 minute) timer, and provides the "tier appropriate" amount of ship/science/engineering provisions that the standard provisioning mission would provide.
However, said mission costs like 200,000 dilithium to run at tier 1 (5 provision) levels, and might cost more with the advanced bases. Also, said mission does not advance the base any, so it's not one that gets slotted and forgotten about, it's designed to be slotted, filled ASAP, and the provisions used... Heck, sounds darn close to "personal" provisions, doesn't it???
However, if there is a member / small subset of members that are that desperate for provisions, these members should be able to convince fleet leadership to slot one of these into the chain, so that as soon as it appears the desperate member(s) can fill it, wait the 1/2 hour for the provisions to come live, then immediately spend them. Also, with the 1/2 hour cooldown, the slot comes free relatively quick, the only delay being from when the previous mission ends till the desperate group comes online to fill it.
If not, then the usual methods of fleet control can come into play, including the "taking of ball and going to a new playground (fleet)" method of control...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Not only that, but the provisions require an absurd amount of Dilithium and then we have to spend more dilithium to buy things from the fleet store. I really think that the provisions should be scrapped or at the very least turned into a personal rep project that DOES NOT require dilithium.
Provisions are very possibly the most sh*t thing about fleet bases. Right next to the absurd dilithium costs.
I think personal provisions is a great way to go. They can keep the fleet provisions but personal provisions should cost the same as fleet ones for your base's tier (or some ratio thereof) but exclude fleet marks and therefore exclude XP contributed to that holding sub-tier.
My fleet is very small so we don't have that issue of handing them out but I do agree with the OP it is an issue. The solution to me is a combination of personal and fleet wide provisions just that personal ones should not give XP since your not helping the fleet but as mentioned about should not cost you fleet marks (all other costs should be the same or some ratio thereof).
Summary:
+ 1 personal and fleet provisions
In my fleet, if the stores are left open, provisions clear out faster than they can be refilled- we have to choose between advancing the fleet XP or provisioning full time.
On the other hand, closing the stores pisses people off and makes them stop contributing, because then they don't feel like they're getting anything for their contributions.
It's a no win situation.
I like the part where a fleet weapon costs 20000 credits and 9600 dilithium
Oh and the purple embassy boffs costing about as much as the adapted maco set in terms of dilithium and marks (different marks but you get where im going with this) each.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus