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Carrier Update Feedback
hasukurobi
Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
Alright, I am going to give my full feedback on the carrier changes that were made. I will break this up to make it easier to read.
UI Change
The new UI is somewhat nice in that it shows our fighter's number, health, and Vet status. It is fairly easy to use but I wish for ships with 2 bays that we could put these two boxes together a bit more efficiently. Also it is annoying when fighters just vanish and it is hard to tell if your fighters are actually docked or not so having an indicator that they are docked would be nice. Also it would be good to get to see a color change over the command issued because currently it can sometimes be hard to tell when it is lit up or not.
Fighter AI
The improvement to make fighters run from Warp Core Breeches seems to be working decently well. I see them make active attempts to flee from those big explosions. AI in regards to docking is a bit weak however. Sometimes fighters fail to Dock for long periods or do not want to undock or suddenly consider themselves lost instead of undocking. You can also sometimes replace currently existing fighters while they are docked if you hit the launch button.
I think fighters should immediately attempt to dock when they are recalled. That would make the most sense and they really need to have Full Impulse and make use of it.
Fighters still fly off to the other side of Khitomer Accord Vortex and wander off in The Cure Found. They also have a horrible time keeping their biggest and best weapons on target which makes them far less effective or worthwhile.
Veterancy System
This system seems alright on the surface but in practice it is not very good. Most fighters die so fast in combat that they never even reach Rank 2 which means that they are given an effective Nerf. Fighters since the update have been even weaker and more fragile as well making it even less likely that they will ever reach Rank 2. Recalling them does not usually help because they will be killed while floating around you rather than running inside to safety. Attempting to lower the uptime of fighters from Carriers in general this way seems like a bad move as this is the whole point of Carriers to begin with: FIGHTERS.
Frigates also seem to be dying a lot faster since the changes making it unlikely that they will get past Rank 3 in most cases. This means that they will EVENTUALLY receive a tiny boost before death but it is not enough to offset the fact that the majority of the time they will be running nerfed and that their previous survivability has been reduced.
There are hardly any AoE heals that can help carriers keep their pets alive long enough to gain veterancy. This combined with the fact that it required far too long a time for them to reach Rank 5 and thus achieve maximum potential means that they will rarely benefit much from the veterancy system and instead will be nerfed by lowered uptime or the nerf of being below Rank 2.
The Federation does not even have "Frigates" and are stuck instead with Shuttles which are not as good as either Frigates nor Fighters because they deal far less damage than either and only survive marginally better than Fighters. This means that instead of being a boon to them this system is a complete nerf to craft that were already next to worthless. (Aside from the Runabout for its Crowd Control)
Last but not Least the S'kul Fighters and Jem'Hadar Attack Ship Frigates actively commit suicide as part of the way they work. This doubly ensures that they will NEVER reach Rank 5 and are very very likely to never even reach Rank 2 for the Fighters and much over Rank 3 for the Attack Ships. So this system is a strong effective nerf to these ships which is rough considering the trouble it is to get the Attack Ships which were not that stellar to begin with and that S'Kul Fighters used to be one of the best in the game and made having a Kar'Fi more worthwhile.
Conclusion
The UI is a nice update and fighters do a lot better job of getting away from Warp Core Breeches but their AI in general is horrible and it is so hard to keep them alive that the Veterancy system is basically just a big Nerf to fighters and Carriers in general.
Suggestions
Do not start craft out with a Nerf. Start them out at parody with the way they were originally. Let them only improve as they gain Veterancy. Give them an extra special boost for reaching Tier 5 to make it really worthwhile but keep it at its current difficulty to obtain. Make fighters use Full Impulse to keep up with parent vessels and to come in and DOCK immediately when Recall is used. Give us an indicator so we know when our fighters are docked. Make the current command given to fighters backlit with green on the fighter UI so it is more obvious which command is being followed.
UI Change
The new UI is somewhat nice in that it shows our fighter's number, health, and Vet status. It is fairly easy to use but I wish for ships with 2 bays that we could put these two boxes together a bit more efficiently. Also it is annoying when fighters just vanish and it is hard to tell if your fighters are actually docked or not so having an indicator that they are docked would be nice. Also it would be good to get to see a color change over the command issued because currently it can sometimes be hard to tell when it is lit up or not.
Fighter AI
The improvement to make fighters run from Warp Core Breeches seems to be working decently well. I see them make active attempts to flee from those big explosions. AI in regards to docking is a bit weak however. Sometimes fighters fail to Dock for long periods or do not want to undock or suddenly consider themselves lost instead of undocking. You can also sometimes replace currently existing fighters while they are docked if you hit the launch button.
I think fighters should immediately attempt to dock when they are recalled. That would make the most sense and they really need to have Full Impulse and make use of it.
Fighters still fly off to the other side of Khitomer Accord Vortex and wander off in The Cure Found. They also have a horrible time keeping their biggest and best weapons on target which makes them far less effective or worthwhile.
Veterancy System
This system seems alright on the surface but in practice it is not very good. Most fighters die so fast in combat that they never even reach Rank 2 which means that they are given an effective Nerf. Fighters since the update have been even weaker and more fragile as well making it even less likely that they will ever reach Rank 2. Recalling them does not usually help because they will be killed while floating around you rather than running inside to safety. Attempting to lower the uptime of fighters from Carriers in general this way seems like a bad move as this is the whole point of Carriers to begin with: FIGHTERS.
Frigates also seem to be dying a lot faster since the changes making it unlikely that they will get past Rank 3 in most cases. This means that they will EVENTUALLY receive a tiny boost before death but it is not enough to offset the fact that the majority of the time they will be running nerfed and that their previous survivability has been reduced.
There are hardly any AoE heals that can help carriers keep their pets alive long enough to gain veterancy. This combined with the fact that it required far too long a time for them to reach Rank 5 and thus achieve maximum potential means that they will rarely benefit much from the veterancy system and instead will be nerfed by lowered uptime or the nerf of being below Rank 2.
The Federation does not even have "Frigates" and are stuck instead with Shuttles which are not as good as either Frigates nor Fighters because they deal far less damage than either and only survive marginally better than Fighters. This means that instead of being a boon to them this system is a complete nerf to craft that were already next to worthless. (Aside from the Runabout for its Crowd Control)
Last but not Least the S'kul Fighters and Jem'Hadar Attack Ship Frigates actively commit suicide as part of the way they work. This doubly ensures that they will NEVER reach Rank 5 and are very very likely to never even reach Rank 2 for the Fighters and much over Rank 3 for the Attack Ships. So this system is a strong effective nerf to these ships which is rough considering the trouble it is to get the Attack Ships which were not that stellar to begin with and that S'Kul Fighters used to be one of the best in the game and made having a Kar'Fi more worthwhile.
Conclusion
The UI is a nice update and fighters do a lot better job of getting away from Warp Core Breeches but their AI in general is horrible and it is so hard to keep them alive that the Veterancy system is basically just a big Nerf to fighters and Carriers in general.
Suggestions
Do not start craft out with a Nerf. Start them out at parody with the way they were originally. Let them only improve as they gain Veterancy. Give them an extra special boost for reaching Tier 5 to make it really worthwhile but keep it at its current difficulty to obtain. Make fighters use Full Impulse to keep up with parent vessels and to come in and DOCK immediately when Recall is used. Give us an indicator so we know when our fighters are docked. Make the current command given to fighters backlit with green on the fighter UI so it is more obvious which command is being followed.
Post edited by hasukurobi on
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Comments
This is the worst part about this update, as far as I'm concerned. The way you used to counteract this was to keep summoning new pets, because the ones close to you are more likely to pick targets that are also close to you... But now you can't summon new pets with your old ones flying around, and when your old pets stop obeying orders due to range, **you can't bring them back**. You have to exit combat, dismount the hangar items, then reequip them so you can re-launch.
Bad bad problem for carriers.
Indeed... It has always been a problem but you are very correct that it does exacerbate the problem even further that you cannot just replace them anymore.
..When I hit recall sometimes my frigates never dock; then when I'm zooming across the map(like in Azure Nebula) I'll loose a veteran frigate because it got the "recall" command fracked up....so yeah somethings afoot with "recall".....
I don't use fighters so - no comment.
The seem to level up at decent pace, at least for me. I do babysit them - like I'll throw a HE or TSS on 'em to keep them alive.
The only thing the really, and I mean really irritates me, is the targeting bug/TRIBBLE up/whatever - that my targeting keep jumping to my plasma torpedoes, and I burn a TT or a HE on a torpedo when I didn't intend to....only seemed to pop up within the last few updates...
THEN when they get close enough to register on the ui while still on recall, they occasionally bolt further away from you again
I cannot use mesh weavers on vault ensnared as they get 15km behind or just sit there. I thought perhaps I should use something faster then, in go the interceptors with attack my target command. launch them, fwoom, they bolt directly above me off into the distance and out of range within 2 seconds flat. Now I cannot command them or spawn any new ones or check if they are dead since they no longer register on my hangar ui. :mad:
Thinking maybe I should shelve my carriers for now since most times the hangars seem MIA nowadays.
It may be wise to wait for some sort of fixes to come down the pipes by the looks of it. Shield Repair Shuttles are totally crazy right now. Never know if they will heal you or not even if it looks like they are spamming heals like crazy.
When everything works and the pets don't act stupid, it's amazing.
I just wish it worked more often.
If you try to assign carrier commands to the powers tray by pressing "p" and putting them into the tray so the have a hotkey, they're apparently the old carrier commands as the don't affect the new carrier UI, in other words, the ones in the list under the "P" dialog don't work.
Would be nice to allow hotkey access to the new carrier commands as some of us use controllers and having to grab the mouse and click on the screen to select carrier commands is annoying when we could previously use our controllers to do so.
Hmmm That is a bug. They are supposed to work for both hangars if you have them if you do it that way. Can you confirm that the fighters do not respond to those commands?
The problem is the carrier commands in the "powers" dialog, where you drag various powers to the tray seems to have to older carrier commands, before you could put them on the tray and then use the appropriate hotkey and see the pet mode change in the UI, now nothing happens. I have a feeling they forgot to actually replace the old commands in the power selection dialog with the new ones.
I really hate this so much, especially on ships that only have a few heals and burn HE on a ******* mine when they needed it for themselves.
Is there a thread about this bug?
Mine Trap Supporter
Go into your options under Controls (I believe) and make sure to turn on the line that says "Never Target Objects" and "Never Target Fighters" etc. That way you have to click on them to target them and will never auto-target them like that.
Trust me... It is VERY worth doing to save yourself from the headache you are talking about which I also shared for awhile.
The one problem with that is two fold:
1) Any time your fighters are recalled it is called Downtime. During Downtime most carriers are FAR less effective than they are with their fighters out and they are designed to have weaknesses to compensate for having fighters out and doing their thing which simply become inherent flaws during Downtime.
2) The Recall Function does not always work at present along with all the other commands making it much harder to actually orchestrate your fighters in the first place.
Certainly my Scimitar can annihilate everything in its path without its Drone Ships but that does not mean that its Drone Ships were benefited by this change.