I'm not in favour of perma-death, I am in favour of ships being disabled and "reviveable" by other players however.
If a player gets disabled (0% hull, no critical hit recieved) the ship should begin to drift and the player should be offered to wait for help or abandon ship. If he waits, team members could tow him or her out of the danger zone (Engineer specialty?) and "revive" him or her. A Engineer could patch him or her up to 75% hull and shields (roughly) and every other player to about 25%. If the player decides to abandon the ship or gets blown up by a critical hit he should respawn OUTSIDE of the current map, maybe at the nearest starbase/outpost/checkpoint to add some kind of penalty to death.
The problem with this:
Borg cube deals 75,000,000 damage to you with plasma beam array.
Sphere deals 47,000 damage to you with low yield torpedo
Borg Unimatrix Ship deals 750,000,000,000 damage to you with Unavoidable deathlance.
This is STOs PvE mechanics, it is NOT possible to do permadeath without gutting the game.
PvE is based on 1 shots
PvP is based on instant death by zerg rushing players.
PvE is based on a Zerg rush of 1 shots
pvP is based on a zerg rush of 1 shots
How to fix: Remove space combat, start rewriting the game mechanics. This is a 3-4 year ordeal .
I'm not in favour of perma-death, I am in favour of ships being disabled and "reviveable" by other players however.
If a player gets disabled (0% hull, no critical hit recieved) the ship should begin to drift and the player should be offered to wait for help or abandon ship. If he waits, team members could tow him or her out of the danger zone (Engineer specialty?) and "revive" him or her. A Engineer could patch him or her up to 75% hull and shields (roughly) and every other player to about 25%. If the player decides to abandon the ship or gets blown up by a critical hit he should respawn OUTSIDE of the current map, maybe at the nearest starbase/outpost/checkpoint to add some kind of penalty to death.
First off if you are at 0% hull than BOOM, as for disabling a ship should come at the 1-25% mark. Maybe if they incorporated a temp timer on ship use, like your ship got destroyed and that one ship alone requires 1-20hrs of repair time making you have to dust off one of your other ships in the mean time. Something to this effect!!!
why stop there, why dont you make it so when you get blown up with full shields and hull in a STF the game closes and uninstalls itself? you can make the game auto ragequit..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I think that the debate is moving from perma-death to Death in space should matter? Do you want we start another thread so that the 2 debate does not mixed. Or we might try a poll.
Because I feel some answer are becoming a bit offensive to the OP and are not making any point about the fact that defeat should matter or not.
Borg cube deals 75,000,000 damage to you with plasma beam array.
Sphere deals 47,000 damage to you with low yield torpedo
Borg Unimatrix Ship deals 750,000,000,000 damage to you with Unavoidable deathlance.
This is STOs PvE mechanics, it is NOT possible to do permadeath without gutting the game.
PvE is based on 1 shots
PvP is based on instant death by zerg rushing players.
PvE is based on a Zerg rush of 1 shots
pvP is based on a zerg rush of 1 shots
How to fix: Remove space combat, start rewriting the game mechanics. This is a 3-4 year ordeal .
It should be obvious that a change like this isn't suitable for the current simplistic game mechanics like you stated yourself. The whole game is designed to be a casual lunch break experience, the combat doesn't require any kind of strategy or effort. If it'd be revamped however I'd like a system like that in place If a task force engages a Borg cube they should calculate one or two instant-losses at least. Those could spawn at a outpost and rejoin the battle as reinforcements later.
But at least a space disable/rez could be implemented.
First off if you are at 0% hull than BOOM, as for disabling a ship should come at the 1-25% mark. Maybe if they incorporated a temp timer on ship use, like your ship got destroyed and that one ship alone requires 1-20hrs of repair time making you have to dust off one of your other ships in the mean time. Something to this effect!!!
If you reach 0% health at ground you are "incapacitated" as well. We have the whole mechanic in ground combat already, it'd be the same thing in space but instead of "respawn" you'd have a "abandon ship" animation for FED and "self-destruct" for Kling and Rom resulting in kaboom. A critical hit leading to your knock-out would instantly lead to a "pop" and respawn. Taking a ship out of the game for a couple of hours wouldn't be all that tempting as it qould require the same massive overhaul as brokenmirror pointed out since you insta-pop way to easy depending on the situation you are in (there are lots of intentional instant kills in STO to create the illusion of difficulty or depth).
As for "Klingons" destroying disabled ships: Yeah, they'd probably do that to grant the enemy honourable deaths. Nothing wrong with that. If the player decides to focus his next attack on the disabled ship (which could have a five-second invulnerability due to emergency SIF fields or anything) instead of those still shooting it'd be his decision.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
As one of the top 10 ranked "hardcore" D2 players for years I can say I certainly miss the danger of it. However, to apply it to this game would require a complete re-balance as pointed out before.
I also can certainly understand those saying that losing real money spent on a character is a big no-no.
As someone who thinks the entire game should be weapons-free, not just one map, this topic highlights the inherent imbalances in the game.
In my book a 10 second respawn=zero penalty....but there is no way around it as long as pvp players and NPC's alike have "i-win" buttons.
I'm not in favour of perma-death, I am in favour of ships being disabled and "reviveable" by other players however.
There is already a system in place for elites which damages the starship or injures the players. I would like to see this damage system be expanded to all content in the game. On the other side of the coin, I've seen way too many feeble minded players who keep zerging while stacked with multiple damage/injury in elites and don't care that they become a burden. They don't bother to bring along repair kits/stims and would continue on to the next mission while gimped.
There is already a system in place for elites which damages the starship or injures the players. I would like to see this damage system be expanded to all content in the game. On the other side of the coin, I've seen way too many feeble minded players who keep zerging while stacked with multiple damage/injury in elites and don't care that they become a burden. They don't bother to bring along repair kits/stims and would continue on to the next mission while gimped.
But the current injury system is nothing like being able to actively rescue disabled ships out of danger. It's just debuffs applied to you that require one consumable to heal. I don't consider them penalizing in any way since you can just keep on dieing and do two clicks while you wait to respawn to "heal". Sure it becomes a burden when people don't bring heals but those heals really don't cost anything that'll prevent you from keeping at least 20 of each in your inventory. I mean one mediocre drop is enough to buy stacks of heals.
I'd rather get rid of those "injuries" and have death become a actual time and effort costing penalty (like spawning at an outpost and rejoin the fight while actually having to travel there). It's common in most other MMOs and works there. I mean when you die the mission has failed, it should be over at that moment
I agree with this entirely. The player is supposed to be a "main character" captain in the Trek tradition, their ships almost never get destroyed unless it's a plot gimmick. However they DO often play the "Maximum warp, get us out of here!" card a lot. And it's just like the Federation to include an emergency device that basically overrides the controls and zaps the ship in a random direction at the last moment. Thus, Hull percentage would mean "how much damage can we take before destruction" and hitting zero means your ship automatically hits the panic button and bugs the hell out. (...)
I'd welcome something like that being implemented at the cost of EC or consumables to avoid destruction/outpost respawn. Like a "town portal" kind of "get the hell out". Ships should however explode at critical hit destruction or abandon ship situations. We are all "supposed" to be the hero, but it doesn't make sense that way. When everyone is a hero, everyone's common once again Plus Klingons and Romulans wouldn't warp away. Klingons would go down fighting and Romulans would self-destruct.
Hey, idea: Feds get a "abandon ship and respawn", KDF get "go down fighting" like a five second "adrenaline rush" before the core explodes and Romulans get a "self-destruct" to inflict more AoE damage on destruction.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
There is already a system in place for elites which damages the starship or injures the players. I would like to see this damage system be expanded to all content in the game. On the other side of the coin, I've seen way too many feeble minded players who keep zerging while stacked with multiple damage/injury in elites and don't care that they become a burden. They don't bother to bring along repair kits/stims and would continue on to the next mission while gimped.
It already is when you choose the difficulty level. You can do the whole game on advanced and elite difficulty and suffer such damage with the chance rising with each increase in difficulty. However it is a choice and to change it now would require a complete reworking of the balance and need them to actually fix bugs quickly. Given how long a number of bugs have been around it is unlikely.
It already is when you choose the difficulty level. You can do the whole game on advanced and elite difficulty and suffer such damage with the chance rising with each increase in difficulty. However it is a choice and to change it now would require a complete reworking of the balance and need them to actually fix bugs quickly. Given how long a number of bugs have been around it is unlikely.
It is very unlikely that anything about the core game mechanics is going to change ever. The game and it's chosen model of distribution don't leave room for something like this, it'd just risk angering/loosing customers. STO is "final" as it is until CBS pulls the license and/or the servers go down
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
If I could take a new look at death in STO, here's how it would go:
Space death would be, in general, slightly more like ground death.
This would all take into account a few factors, mostly immersion (not about enemy attacks but death) and the idea of a death penalty.
- There is no respawn timer.
- Your ship doesn't blow up. It sits there, sparking, perhaps taking some shots/aggro still.
- At that point, you can:
1) Get repaired by a teammate in place.
2) Use a 5 minute cooldown power (perhaps, if this intrigues anyone, the length of the cooldown could scale with ship crew -- more crew, lower cooldown, giving cruisers an edge) that revives you in place. 50% health and shields for 5 seconds followed by a full recovery there and maybe 20 seconds of power levels at 50%.
3) Abandon ship. Your ship blows up. You reset.
But much like how you never "die" on the ground unless you choose to respawn, I'd be inclined to make it so that you never blow up in space unless you choose to respawn. Respawning is always an option.
Respawning is what would trigger injuries/damage. You could always avoid injuries by having a teammate revive you or just sitting in place until your recovery power comes up.
In general, I feel like seeing your ship blow up or any ship blow up was generally supposed to be something special and weird on the shows. If you saw it in an alternate timeline or something, it MEANT SOMETHING or was supposed to.
We see ships blow up too much in STO, I think. If they only blew up when they respawned (triggering injury) and avoided respawning, it would be a touch more special.
Now, having the cooldown of in-place, injury free recovery tied to crew size is actually one way I could see balancing escorts and cruisers. It's somewhat of a different take but when you get away from ship explosions a bit then you see that it's less of a big deal for a cruiser with a large crew compliment to lose shields and hull. Sixty seconds "disabled" and you're back in the fight through a recovery from "disabled" state. Whereas an escort with 20 people aboard is going to stay dead longer because their recovery is, say, on a 5 minute cooldown. If you die once every 5 minutes, it's no big deal. More often than that and you need respawns (with injury) or teammates (to avoid injury). Whereas a cruiser, like I say (especially the Galaxy, which has a BIG crew) could die and rez once a minute without much penalty aside from the extra power drain when first rezzed. More crew = faster and more frequent no penalty self-rezzes. Anybody can take a fast rez with an explosion if they take a death penalty.
This would be on "easy"; the patient person would never see their ship blow up. They would just be "adrift." Unless they CHOOSE to blow up.
On "normal" you're "adrift" for 30 seconds before blowing up and taking an injury, giving teammates and your recovery time a chance to recover you, injury free.
On "elite", you're "adrift" for 10 seconds during which you can be recovered penalty free via power or teammate. But then you blow up and take an injury.
99% of the players would instantly quit, and of those, 99% would go straight into therapy. The rest would slit their wrists. It's a carebear game.
Seriously, go play EVE, it's many levels of magnitude above this simplistic game, but beware, it will devour your life. Then when the burn-out hits, come back to no risk STO. And weep.
Very true, Eve can be painful, and I only lost a few relatively inexpensive ships. This is why I am back in STO...With that said I (at times) do wish there were consequences to going after a flagship in a Miranda. I wonder if it would be possible to have some kind of a nul sec area in STO in the future...
What about charging for repairs, or having to buy new 'canon' components for your ship with Zen (Nacelles, Bussard Collector, etc) or DOFFS dying....just brainstorming.
There is already a system in place for elites which damages the starship or injures the players. I would like to see this damage system be expanded to all content in the game. On the other side of the coin, I've seen way too many feeble minded players who keep zerging while stacked with multiple damage/injury in elites and don't care that they become a burden. They don't bother to bring along repair kits/stims and would continue on to the next mission while gimped.
When injuries (at least in space) were first introduced, you could use components to heal a team member... I want that back, if for nothing more than the multiple injury guy.
I do think they need to do away with "deaths" and replace with disabled/knocked out. I actually am a fan of how this currently works in missions like Defera Power Plant Hard, Nukara ground Hards, and Hive Ground... if you "respawn", you are moved out of the combat area... in the first two examples, you can't rejoin the battle. In the last, you can be released by a team mate.
I think that similar mechanics could be placed in game, you "respawn" you are moved out of the combat area...
If you are revived by a team mate, a new ability "Send Emergency Repair Team that restores the disabled player to 25% health. They could then start activating their own heals, or others need to send heals to them. They would be immune to further damage (and unable to fire) for the 15 seconds (as they are "repairing" (reaches 100% shield/hull), this timer could be shortened by teammates sending Heals (hull/shield).
The visual would be their ship a drift (spewing warp plasma (not liek the ability, just he visual), and with a progress bar above (restoration status).
Edit: On ship/captain injuries... Criticals need to be repaired at a startbase (yours or social zone), and while you have a critical injury, you should not be allowed to enter a team based mission (stf/pvp/etc etc) .
I usually try to be tolerant of other viewpoints but in this case ... "Hell No!".
Do you know how much time and money goes into builds and ships? And how many times do people die in ESTFs due to cheap 1 shots.
This is a great idea ... if you want to kill this game ... forever.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Most people are looking to just casually play this game, and with as many bugs and server problems as this game has had, making a death penalty mandatory would be stupid.
Eve is the game you are looking for.
However...
This game already has penalty mechanics built into it. If those are insufficient, then you can use the already implemented "hardcore" option. When your ship explodes, or your captain dies in ground combat, simply return to the character screen, and select the "dead" character, and then press delete, and type in the captain's name then hit "OK" to complete the process. There you have your hardcore mode, and its already there. Most people don't take advantage of it. Best of all, it is completely optional. Try it out , and see if this is what you really want.
Most people are looking to just casually play this game, and with as many bugs and server problems as this game has had, making a death penalty mandatory would be stupid.
Eve is the game you are looking for.
However...
This game already has penalty mechanics built into it. If those are insufficient, then you can use the already implemented "hardcore" option. When your ship explodes, or your captain dies in ground combat, simply return to the character screen, and select the "dead" character, and then press delete, and type in the captain's name then hit "OK" to complete the process. There you have your hardcore mode, and its already there. Most people don't take advantage of it. Best of all, it is completely optional. Try it out , and see if this is what you really want.
____
Exactly. The Borg has a nasty tendency to use "I Win" attacks that insta kills the player, regardless of build or ship.
Also, what about the lockbox ships? One gone, they stay gone, unless you have a cargo hold full of EC or a lot of $ to spend to get a new one...
I do like some of the other solutions mentioned here thou, and some could even work if done/implemented correctly.
Most people are looking to just casually play this game, and with as many bugs and server problems as this game has had, making a death penalty mandatory would be stupid.
Eve is the game you are looking for.
However...
This game already has penalty mechanics built into it. If those are insufficient, then you can use the already implemented "hardcore" option. When your ship explodes, or your captain dies in ground combat, simply return to the character screen, and select the "dead" character, and then press delete, and type in the captain's name then hit "OK" to complete the process. There you have your hardcore mode, and its already there. Most people don't take advantage of it. Best of all, it is completely optional. Try it out , and see if this is what you really want.
____
I agree with what youve said, but will add, that at any point in eve if your ship is destroyed by a bug, server issue then you are able to get it back, so same should be said for STO.
STO is too late in the game to bring in a "permadeath" - 3 years too late at least - it would amount to a fundamental change in the game's "constitution" and is not what most players signed up for. (Cue cries of "carebears", but the point is that STO's pitch has always been to a different market than EVE).
There's also a fundamental difference in plot; players in STO are supposed to be part of vast, well-resourced space navies rather than the privateers of EVE. Outside of the lockbox ships, any losses should be readily replaced by the fleet - like the Defiant and NC-1701 Enterprise were in canon. Point is, (in theory) STO ships are not unique and paid for by characters.
That said, I think there are other mechanisms which could be implemented. A number of tabletop games make ship kills very difficult by allowing rapid disengagement / evasion - if you were going to implement a "permanent death" mode for a given scenario, this could be an offset; players can warp out to slowly regenerate.
Comments
The problem with this:
Borg cube deals 75,000,000 damage to you with plasma beam array.
Sphere deals 47,000 damage to you with low yield torpedo
Borg Unimatrix Ship deals 750,000,000,000 damage to you with Unavoidable deathlance.
This is STOs PvE mechanics, it is NOT possible to do permadeath without gutting the game.
PvE is based on 1 shots
PvP is based on instant death by zerg rushing players.
PvE is based on a Zerg rush of 1 shots
pvP is based on a zerg rush of 1 shots
How to fix: Remove space combat, start rewriting the game mechanics. This is a 3-4 year ordeal .
First off if you are at 0% hull than BOOM, as for disabling a ship should come at the 1-25% mark. Maybe if they incorporated a temp timer on ship use, like your ship got destroyed and that one ship alone requires 1-20hrs of repair time making you have to dust off one of your other ships in the mean time. Something to this effect!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
What's to discuss? STO is not that type of game. Its players are not interested in that type of gameplay.
I gather you wish to play EvE lite, but STO is not going to be it.
I rise in solidarity with my distinguished colleague.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
This comment right here wins the thread.
Because I feel some answer are becoming a bit offensive to the OP and are not making any point about the fact that defeat should matter or not.
Skanvak Drakken
http://lamaisondesdrakkens.clan-box.com/index.php
No way in a million years do i want any kind of loss of ship to happen.
It should be obvious that a change like this isn't suitable for the current simplistic game mechanics like you stated yourself. The whole game is designed to be a casual lunch break experience, the combat doesn't require any kind of strategy or effort. If it'd be revamped however I'd like a system like that in place
But at least a space disable/rez could be implemented.
If you reach 0% health at ground you are "incapacitated" as well. We have the whole mechanic in ground combat already, it'd be the same thing in space but instead of "respawn" you'd have a "abandon ship" animation for FED and "self-destruct" for Kling and Rom resulting in kaboom. A critical hit leading to your knock-out would instantly lead to a "pop" and respawn. Taking a ship out of the game for a couple of hours wouldn't be all that tempting as it qould require the same massive overhaul as brokenmirror pointed out since you insta-pop way to easy depending on the situation you are in (there are lots of intentional instant kills in STO to create the illusion of difficulty or depth).
As for "Klingons" destroying disabled ships: Yeah, they'd probably do that to grant the enemy honourable deaths. Nothing wrong with that. If the player decides to focus his next attack on the disabled ship (which could have a five-second invulnerability due to emergency SIF fields or anything) instead of those still shooting it'd be his decision.
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I also can certainly understand those saying that losing real money spent on a character is a big no-no.
As someone who thinks the entire game should be weapons-free, not just one map, this topic highlights the inherent imbalances in the game.
In my book a 10 second respawn=zero penalty....but there is no way around it as long as pvp players and NPC's alike have "i-win" buttons.
There is already a system in place for elites which damages the starship or injures the players. I would like to see this damage system be expanded to all content in the game. On the other side of the coin, I've seen way too many feeble minded players who keep zerging while stacked with multiple damage/injury in elites and don't care that they become a burden. They don't bother to bring along repair kits/stims and would continue on to the next mission while gimped.
But the current injury system is nothing like being able to actively rescue disabled ships out of danger. It's just debuffs applied to you that require one consumable to heal. I don't consider them penalizing in any way since you can just keep on dieing and do two clicks while you wait to respawn to "heal". Sure it becomes a burden when people don't bring heals but those heals really don't cost anything that'll prevent you from keeping at least 20 of each in your inventory. I mean one mediocre drop is enough to buy stacks of heals.
I'd rather get rid of those "injuries" and have death become a actual time and effort costing penalty (like spawning at an outpost and rejoin the fight while actually having to travel there). It's common in most other MMOs and works there. I mean when you die the mission has failed, it should be over at that moment
EDIT:
I'd welcome something like that being implemented at the cost of EC or consumables to avoid destruction/outpost respawn. Like a "town portal" kind of "get the hell out". Ships should however explode at critical hit destruction or abandon ship situations. We are all "supposed" to be the hero, but it doesn't make sense that way. When everyone is a hero, everyone's common once again
Hey, idea: Feds get a "abandon ship and respawn", KDF get "go down fighting" like a five second "adrenaline rush" before the core explodes and Romulans get a "self-destruct" to inflict more AoE damage on destruction.
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It already is when you choose the difficulty level. You can do the whole game on advanced and elite difficulty and suffer such damage with the chance rising with each increase in difficulty. However it is a choice and to change it now would require a complete reworking of the balance and need them to actually fix bugs quickly. Given how long a number of bugs have been around it is unlikely.
It is very unlikely that anything about the core game mechanics is going to change ever. The game and it's chosen model of distribution don't leave room for something like this, it'd just risk angering/loosing customers. STO is "final" as it is until CBS pulls the license and/or the servers go down
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Space death would be, in general, slightly more like ground death.
This would all take into account a few factors, mostly immersion (not about enemy attacks but death) and the idea of a death penalty.
- There is no respawn timer.
- Your ship doesn't blow up. It sits there, sparking, perhaps taking some shots/aggro still.
- At that point, you can:
1) Get repaired by a teammate in place.
2) Use a 5 minute cooldown power (perhaps, if this intrigues anyone, the length of the cooldown could scale with ship crew -- more crew, lower cooldown, giving cruisers an edge) that revives you in place. 50% health and shields for 5 seconds followed by a full recovery there and maybe 20 seconds of power levels at 50%.
3) Abandon ship. Your ship blows up. You reset.
But much like how you never "die" on the ground unless you choose to respawn, I'd be inclined to make it so that you never blow up in space unless you choose to respawn. Respawning is always an option.
Respawning is what would trigger injuries/damage. You could always avoid injuries by having a teammate revive you or just sitting in place until your recovery power comes up.
In general, I feel like seeing your ship blow up or any ship blow up was generally supposed to be something special and weird on the shows. If you saw it in an alternate timeline or something, it MEANT SOMETHING or was supposed to.
We see ships blow up too much in STO, I think. If they only blew up when they respawned (triggering injury) and avoided respawning, it would be a touch more special.
Now, having the cooldown of in-place, injury free recovery tied to crew size is actually one way I could see balancing escorts and cruisers. It's somewhat of a different take but when you get away from ship explosions a bit then you see that it's less of a big deal for a cruiser with a large crew compliment to lose shields and hull. Sixty seconds "disabled" and you're back in the fight through a recovery from "disabled" state. Whereas an escort with 20 people aboard is going to stay dead longer because their recovery is, say, on a 5 minute cooldown. If you die once every 5 minutes, it's no big deal. More often than that and you need respawns (with injury) or teammates (to avoid injury). Whereas a cruiser, like I say (especially the Galaxy, which has a BIG crew) could die and rez once a minute without much penalty aside from the extra power drain when first rezzed. More crew = faster and more frequent no penalty self-rezzes. Anybody can take a fast rez with an explosion if they take a death penalty.
On "normal" you're "adrift" for 30 seconds before blowing up and taking an injury, giving teammates and your recovery time a chance to recover you, injury free.
On "elite", you're "adrift" for 10 seconds during which you can be recovered penalty free via power or teammate. But then you blow up and take an injury.
Very true, Eve can be painful, and I only lost a few relatively inexpensive ships. This is why I am back in STO...With that said I (at times) do wish there were consequences to going after a flagship in a Miranda. I wonder if it would be possible to have some kind of a nul sec area in STO in the future...
What about charging for repairs, or having to buy new 'canon' components for your ship with Zen (Nacelles, Bussard Collector, etc) or DOFFS dying....just brainstorming.
BSG-Benne Gesserit Consortium
When injuries (at least in space) were first introduced, you could use components to heal a team member... I want that back, if for nothing more than the multiple injury guy.
I do think they need to do away with "deaths" and replace with disabled/knocked out. I actually am a fan of how this currently works in missions like Defera Power Plant Hard, Nukara ground Hards, and Hive Ground... if you "respawn", you are moved out of the combat area... in the first two examples, you can't rejoin the battle. In the last, you can be released by a team mate.
I think that similar mechanics could be placed in game, you "respawn" you are moved out of the combat area...
If you are revived by a team mate, a new ability "Send Emergency Repair Team that restores the disabled player to 25% health. They could then start activating their own heals, or others need to send heals to them. They would be immune to further damage (and unable to fire) for the 15 seconds (as they are "repairing" (reaches 100% shield/hull), this timer could be shortened by teammates sending Heals (hull/shield).
The visual would be their ship a drift (spewing warp plasma (not liek the ability, just he visual), and with a progress bar above (restoration status).
Edit: On ship/captain injuries... Criticals need to be repaired at a startbase (yours or social zone), and while you have a critical injury, you should not be allowed to enter a team based mission (stf/pvp/etc etc) .
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
* Permanent death
* Better quality rewards
* Could start at higher level than standard characters
High risk high reward gameplay could be awesome and it wouldn't be mandatory for those who don't want it.
On a INCREDIBLY elite STF mode (or hard mission), when your ships explodes, you cannot partake in the mission any longer.
Like Perma-death, but it is optional to play the mission. (PUG or teamed STFs, not person only optional)
In these STFs, you get more hull, and enemies deal less damage.
I hope STO get's better ...
Do you know how much time and money goes into builds and ships? And how many times do people die in ESTFs due to cheap 1 shots.
This is a great idea ... if you want to kill this game ... forever.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Eve is the game you are looking for.
However...
This game already has penalty mechanics built into it. If those are insufficient, then you can use the already implemented "hardcore" option. When your ship explodes, or your captain dies in ground combat, simply return to the character screen, and select the "dead" character, and then press delete, and type in the captain's name then hit "OK" to complete the process. There you have your hardcore mode, and its already there. Most people don't take advantage of it. Best of all, it is completely optional. Try it out , and see if this is what you really want.
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Exactly. The Borg has a nasty tendency to use "I Win" attacks that insta kills the player, regardless of build or ship.
Also, what about the lockbox ships? One gone, they stay gone, unless you have a cargo hold full of EC or a lot of $ to spend to get a new one...
I do like some of the other solutions mentioned here thou, and some could even work if done/implemented correctly.
If you read the OP
AI damage less, more hull
IE: Cryptic would reduce the damage.
Anyway, my previous post specifies what could be better than the OP
I hope STO get's better ...
I agree with what youve said, but will add, that at any point in eve if your ship is destroyed by a bug, server issue then you are able to get it back, so same should be said for STO.
There's also a fundamental difference in plot; players in STO are supposed to be part of vast, well-resourced space navies rather than the privateers of EVE. Outside of the lockbox ships, any losses should be readily replaced by the fleet - like the Defiant and NC-1701 Enterprise were in canon. Point is, (in theory) STO ships are not unique and paid for by characters.
That said, I think there are other mechanisms which could be implemented. A number of tabletop games make ship kills very difficult by allowing rapid disengagement / evasion - if you were going to implement a "permanent death" mode for a given scenario, this could be an offset; players can warp out to slowly regenerate.