Escorts benifit the most from it tbh, what otherships can spam disperal pattern beta 3 + APO boosted mines of insta death? Most of the time, an EptE escort is too fast for mines to chase. Kirk role player indeed.
The nukara reputation has already provided a perfect counter to the mines, but most people never go to that tier since they consider the gear there sub-standard.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
all the people QQing about these mines are tac escort runners
I have said they need looking at and I fly an eng/cruiser on my main and am only a part time tac/scort pilot, the main problem I have though is that while I have mine and small craft set in my UI options to always show, these don't so I can't avoid them if I wanted to
The nukara reputation has already provided a perfect counter to the mines, but most people never go to that tier since they consider the gear there sub-standard.
If you're looking at the Tholian Web Breakers, those cost 1500 dil for a single charge.
As a tacescort pilot, its pretty damn hard to see these things, actually, its impossible.
Pretty much. Like many mines, web mines have the "Low Energy Signature" property. Which makes them very difficult to see beyond 2-3km depending on Perception.
I use these mines. I have used them in pvp and laughed out loud as some typical pvp hero, gobs off at people like he thinks he has already won. Only to fly round like a demented Gazelle, before being crushed inside the web like an empty coke can. Great satisfaction.
Now, joking aside, what i have noticed is all the people QQing about these mines are tac escort runners. You know, the kind of people that just like to pop all their cds and spam cannon while flying round in a circle. Heaven forbid there is a weapon they actually have to think about that might interfere with said circle spinning and cannon firing.
I have played tac escorts, in a tac escort and popped them with mines until some of them asked me to stop using them. How pathetic. Sometimes i oblige and win anyway, and sometimes i oblige and lose, and then wonder why i even agreed to not use them.
I have played cruisers and sci masters, in the same setup and they laughed at the mines while ripping me out of space time with an astounding amount of projectile spam of their own.
Sorry tac escorts (which is probably 90% of the playerbase), but you lose.
Here is a crazy idea. Instead of repeatedly flying into the mines while trying to cannon alpha spam, and then throwing the proverbial teddy, why not come up with a counter, and implement it? So sick of cry baby bad sportsmen Tacscorts. They gob off like crazy half the time and then you annihilate them, its not their fault. I am not saying im some awesome pvp player, because i am not. I dont like losing either. But i am still a good sport about it.
I dont cry hax when something kills me, i find out what it is, how its used, and then how to beat it or get round it.....i thought that was what everyone did.
Last point. The web mines should not be nerfed for another very good reason. Its the best damn thing in the whole Nukara repuation, if you nerf it, then nukara rep will be a joke.
And how do you know they are tacscort runners? For all you know, they could have been on an alt the last time you saw them.
Also, what part of "unresistable damage" does not sound OP to you? Damage that can be boosted but cannot be reisisted....yeah, defend something like that, right?
Finally, have you tried facing tacscorts which use those things? They have the speed and maneuverability to place the mines more effectively and they have the BoFF slots to mount DPB3 and attack patterns. In fact, by far the most effective users I've seen are T'Varo and B'Rel minelayers, which can be lethal. A tac-buffed dispersal-patterned web mine plus a cluster torp equals a very dead target. I have to work overtime flinging CC and Scramble about just to keep up, as if they hit, it's a kill - no question about it. To keep even a cruiser alive with a buffed mine pattern - I have to kick down ATS and HE2 at over 100 aux power just to give it a sliver of HP left....and even then, it's 50-50.
Oh, I even thought of how I can stick it on my BoP - as it is, I wait for APO to go down and then use a tractor beam to lock down my target. Why don't I just stick the mines on the back as a finisher? Now I won't even need to care if TT is up - I can just let the mines bust through the shields. Thanks for the idea.
As it is there really isnt anything that can stop my ship in its tracks. I feel its fair that there is an option out there to deal with the many ways you can speed tank. The instakill aspect of the mines is ridiculous.
I use these mines. I have used them in pvp and laughed out loud as some typical pvp hero, gobs off at people like he thinks he has already won. Only to fly round like a demented Gazelle, before being crushed inside the web like an empty coke can. Great satisfaction.
Now, joking aside, what i have noticed is all the people QQing about these mines are tac escort runners. You know, the kind of people that just like to pop all their cds and spam cannon while flying round in a circle. Heaven forbid there is a weapon they actually have to think about that might interfere with said circle spinning and cannon firing.
I have played tac escorts, in a tac escort and popped them with mines until some of them asked me to stop using them. How pathetic. Sometimes i oblige and win anyway, and sometimes i oblige and lose, and then wonder why i even agreed to not use them.
I have played cruisers and sci masters, in the same setup and they laughed at the mines while ripping me out of space time with an astounding amount of projectile spam of their own.
Sorry tac escorts (which is probably 90% of the playerbase), but you lose.
Here is a crazy idea. Instead of repeatedly flying into the mines while trying to cannon alpha spam, and then throwing the proverbial teddy, why not come up with a counter, and implement it? So sick of cry baby bad sportsmen Tacscorts. They gob off like crazy half the time and then you annihilate them, its not their fault. I am not saying im some awesome pvp player, because i am not. I dont like losing either. But i am still a good sport about it.
I dont cry hax when something kills me, i find out what it is, how its used, and then how to beat it or get round it.....i thought that was what everyone did.
Last point. The web mines should not be nerfed for another very good reason. Its the best damn thing in the whole Nukara repuation, if you nerf it, then nukara rep will be a joke.
Funny I haven't died to these in my tac bugship, but my eng in a cruiser who normally takes SNB and heavy focus fire to take down has died to them. Stop trying to make it like this is something cruisers and sci can use against the evil tac escorts dominating STO, that isn't the case. Escorts with all kinetic build and sometimes cloak are the main ones abusing these cheap mines since they can move fastest while slotting DPB3.
Those evil DHC escorts at least give you the chance to fight back and use abilities to heal or evade away from them, the mines just disable everything so you are stuck and die, how is that fair?
Just got t4 nukara and probably will max it but I won't mind seeing the Nukara mines nerfed, they are ridiculously OP. Increase visibility, make it so you can still use boff abilities while trapped and change its damage from physical to kinetic. The web should also have targetable web nodes just like regular Tholian webs do. Just increase the set bonus as compensation.
Until then I think the mines are bugged, and I saw someone log last pvp and won't hold it against anyone that logs out to break free of these.
Funny I haven't died to these in my tac bugship, but my eng in a cruiser who normally takes SNB and heavy focus fire to take down has died to them. Stop trying to make it like this is something cruisers and sci can use against the evil tac escorts dominating STO, that isn't the case. Escorts with all kinetic build and sometimes cloak are the main ones abusing these cheap mines since they can move fastest while slotting DPB3.
Those evil DHC escorts at least give you the chance to fight back and use abilities to heal or evade away from them, the mines just disable everything so you are stuck and die, how is that fair?
I think he wants everyone to fly around in a cruiser :rolleyes:
btw you said "bug ship" ....that ship is op ...they need to nerf it...that and BoPs ,hope that will happen next patch
As i said before i used these mines on various people. Some sci ships just laugh them off, and so did a D'Deridex. I have seen a couple of guys that dont take damage from them. So whoever was whining about how it is unresisted damage, take heed. Yes the damage might be unresisted because its physical. However its not a bug, its physical damage. They dissappear fairly quickly too. If you look at more than your buttons you can see when they are being laid, there is a prominent flash and even more so when they activate.
However as i said previously, escorts think its only fair that they should have unimpeded freedom of movement so they can just cannon spam, without having to worry about anything else, and try to stay out of your weapon arcs themselves.
There are counters to them, just like every weapon in some way has counters in STO. Just because you haven't found it does not mean it isn't true. Even more likely, 99% of the people whining probably haven't even bothered altering anything or testing anything for the most part. Then nerd raging when you run into someone using them again and you get popped with another mine no scoper.
Easy option is to just QQ the forums crying for nerfs. Normal option would be to try and be pro, and find a solution. Someone mentioned these mines are best for escorts, yes they are. I use them in an escort. However it doesn't change the fact the biggest windbags and whingers are escort pilots who are killed by them. Seen some real nerdragers.
Heaven forbid you might have to alter your boff abilities, then how could you cannon spam so effectively?
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
be pro and use broken stuff against others that play bether than you ?
i will be pro and whine in the forum like the others, there is no way to avoid the mine's stun and since it is physical dmg, the only resistance you will get to it is "all damage resistance" buffs. the damage can be something like trics, but trics wont hold you certainly without any graviton generators and wont hold you still for na eternity without speccing to it. And for 4 or 5 seconds you are completely vulnerable so its a certain death if you get hit by a dispersal of it, i can make 25k dmg with tactical team 1 and dispersal pattern beta 2 only, is that fair and pro ?
the easy option is knowing they are broken, still use them and say "boom" when you kill someone with no skill, and still calling it beeing pro.
As i said before i used these mines on various people. Some sci ships just laugh them off, and so did a D'Deridex. I have seen a couple of guys that dont take damage from them. So whoever was whining about how it is unresisted damage, take heed. Yes the damage might be unresisted because its physical. However its not a bug, its physical damage. They dissappear fairly quickly too. If you look at more than your buttons you can see when they are being laid, there is a prominent flash and even more so when they activate.
However as i said previously, escorts think its only fair that they should have unimpeded freedom of movement so they can just cannon spam, without having to worry about anything else, and try to stay out of your weapon arcs themselves.
There are counters to them, just like every weapon in some way has counters in STO. Just because you haven't found it does not mean it isn't true. Even more likely, 99% of the people whining probably haven't even bothered altering anything or testing anything for the most part. Then nerd raging when you run into someone using them again and you get popped with another mine no scoper.
Easy option is to just QQ the forums crying for nerfs. Normal option would be to try and be pro, and find a solution. Someone mentioned these mines are best for escorts, yes they are. I use them in an escort. However it doesn't change the fact the biggest windbags and whingers are escort pilots who are killed by them. Seen some real nerdragers.
Heaven forbid you might have to alter your boff abilities, then how could you cannon spam so effectively?
Somehow you missed the part where everyone explained it is escorts able to abuse these the most due to being able to use the most buffs and dpb3, and maneuver to place the mines best. It is slow ships like cruisers who are getting hit by them the most. Explain this please, or are you just trolling?
On top of that, I'll add mine sometimes don't seem to do nowt either but when they do, its deadly.
You also say 'swap out boffs'.
To what may I ask, escorts already have limited sci and engi as it is.
I use them, I also want to see them nerfed.
Don't sit there and think because you use a cruiser everyone else should, I get bored in cruisers, I don't enjoy cruisers.
they have twice the damage of tricobalt mines, since they can instapop anyone ONLY with the 50% bleed
they will hold you for 4 or 5 seconds WITHOUT speccing on anything, apo, aux to damp or ph WONT work
you can be damaged while you are held, it means that if the mines wont kill you, dhcs will
since it is physical damage. kinetic resistance buffs wont work, only "all damage resistance " buffs
that means, that engineer consoles wont work on them too
As i said before i used these mines on various people. Some sci ships just laugh them off, and so did a D'Deridex. I have seen a couple of guys that dont take damage from them. So whoever was whining about how it is unresisted damage, take heed.Yes the damage might be unresisted because its physical. However its not a bug, its physical damage. They dissappear fairly quickly too.
Dropped on their own, unbuffed, web mines can be dealt with. It's funny that you should bring up the D'Deridex, by the way. It likely only tanked your mines because of its universal console - which grants it mad resistance to any and all damage for a period of time. Mind coming up with an explanation for the sci-ships? If they are tanking through multiple mines, without having heals thrown on them by teammates, I'd like to hear how that works.
If you look at more than your buttons you can see when they are being laid, there is a prominent flash and even more so when they activate.
Oh, so you think we're all perfect androids who can remember the location of any object in 3D space even after it has disappeared from sensors? Obviously I can see them initially. The problem is how they have low energy sig afterwards! Then they're invisible beyond a certain range - which is fairly short.
However as i said previously, escorts think its only fair that they should have unimpeded freedom of movement so they can just cannon spam, without having to worry about anything else, and try to stay out of your weapon arcs themselves.
There are counters to them, just like every weapon in some way has counters in STO. Just because you haven't found it does not mean it isn't true. Even more likely, 99% of the people whining probably haven't even bothered altering anything or testing anything for the most part. Then nerd raging when you run into someone using them again and you get popped with another mine no scoper.
Uh-huh. Sure, I have counters. Once again, for whoever hasn't been reading, tricobalt mines had almost exactly the same issue. They had the same counters. However, they were one-shot kills with the appropriate buffs, like web mines, and they had a much shorter stun. They were nerfed by the devs. By analogy, these mines are overpowered - despite their counters. They do one-shots, like tricobalt mines, and the stun is even longer. Just because something has counters doesn't mean that it automatically isn't overpowered.
Besides, all mines have the same counters. Are you therefore saying that since all mines are countered by the same counters, they should all be capable of oneshots and 3-second stuns, or something equivalent?
And don't argue about it being part of a set and thus being supposed to be more powerful. If that argument applied, both the Omega plasma torp and the Romulan Heavy Plasma would be capable of punching straight through shields and causing a stun effect, or having a similarly devastating effect, such as draining 50 points from all weapons.
Easy option is to just QQ the forums crying for nerfs. Normal option would be to try and be pro, and find a solution. Someone mentioned these mines are best for escorts, yes they are. I use them in an escort. However it doesn't change the fact the biggest windbags and whingers are escort pilots who are killed by them. Seen some real nerdragers.
Heaven forbid you might have to alter your boff abilities, then how could you cannon spam so effectively?
Quit generalizing and making assumptions about your opponents. You sound like you're nerdraging yourself, just for the opposite point of view. I've altered my builds, for goodness sake, and I still think it's overpowered. Not to mention I pilot a whole lot besides escorts. My main is a Sci/sci, for goodness' sake. And people like you, who make stupid, unfounded assumptions about people they are arguing with really torque me off.
In fact, my BoP and my Mogai have little-to-no problem with these things. It's my science ship and cruiser that has the problem!
Essentially, one mine launcher combined with one boff ability has enough damage potential to outpace the damage output from Beam Overload + boff ability + 4 tac consoles, without the power drain, combined with a 3-second long stun. They punch right through shields without affecting them. The web mines have very little cost for extremely high payoff. That is why they are overpowered.
However as i said previously, escorts think its only fair that they should have unimpeded freedom of movement so they can just cannon spam, without having to worry about anything else, and try to stay out of your weapon arcs themselves.
Its funny because you really think escorts are the ones most vulnerable to these mines instead of them being some of the primary users of them.
Just make them unusable on escorts and no need to nerf then.
Weapons are not allowed to be deadly for a Sci or Eng captain as they must all be nerfed to compensate for Tac buffs.
all of the rest tac oriented ships can get almost the same dmg if boosted by a tactical, its not about escorts dude, its about tac skills that boost everything, and theres not enough resistance buffs because its physical dmg, make it kinetic or reduce the bleed and everything will change
all of the rest tac oriented ships can get almost the same dmg if boosted by a tactical, its not about escorts dude, its about tac skills that boost everything, and theres not enough resistance buffs because its physical dmg, make it kinetic or reduce the bleed and everything will change
Which will make them more useless to Sci and Eng. If you reread my post I mentioned the Tac buff problem directly. These mines are almost useless in current form to a Sci or Eng in a cruiser or science vessel as these have no access to the higher tier dispersal patterns or to Tac buffs. Nerf these and then what? I find them underwhelming now, 2 mines every 30 seconds.
I ran into these tholian mines in kerrat, full hull... dead in about 4 seconds.
Second time it took me down to 2% hull.
This is "fair" to some of you people out there? This is the kind of thing you want? If thats the case i hope Cryptic completely pulls the plug on PVP because its now become an absolute running joke.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Somehow you missed the part where everyone explained it is escorts able to abuse these the most due to being able to use the most buffs and dpb3, and maneuver to place the mines best. It is slow ships like cruisers who are getting hit by them the most. Explain this please, or are you just trolling?
When i have used them in pvp its the escort captains who fly into them the most doing their crazy 'fly round in circles cannon cpamming looking at buttons thinking i am so cool' and they also rage the most when they die. After all they arent used to anyone defeating their multi damage buff cannon spam.
Dropped on their own, unbuffed, web mines can be dealt with. It's funny that you should bring up the D'Deridex, by the way. It likely only tanked your mines because of its universal console - which grants it mad resistance to any and all damage for a period of time. Mind coming up with an explanation for the sci-ships? If they are tanking through multiple mines, without having heals thrown on them by teammates, I'd like to hear how that works.
Oh, so you think we're all perfect androids who can remember the location of any object in 3D space even after it has disappeared from sensors? Obviously I can see them initially. The problem is how they have low energy sig afterwards! Then they're invisible beyond a certain range - which is fairly short.
Uh-huh. Sure, I have counters. Once again, for whoever hasn't been reading, tricobalt mines had almost exactly the same issue. They had the same counters. However, they were one-shot kills with the appropriate buffs, like web mines, and they had a much shorter stun. They were nerfed by the devs. By analogy, these mines are overpowered - despite their counters. They do one-shots, like tricobalt mines, and the stun is even longer. Just because something has counters doesn't mean that it automatically isn't overpowered.
Besides, all mines have the same counters. Are you therefore saying that since all mines are countered by the same counters, they should all be capable of oneshots and 3-second stuns, or something equivalent?
And don't argue about it being part of a set and thus being supposed to be more powerful. If that argument applied, both the Omega plasma torp and the Romulan Heavy Plasma would be capable of punching straight through shields and causing a stun effect, or having a similarly devastating effect, such as draining 50 points from all weapons.
Quit generalizing and making assumptions about your opponents. You sound like you're nerdraging yourself, just for the opposite point of view. I've altered my builds, for goodness sake, and I still think it's overpowered. Not to mention I pilot a whole lot besides escorts. My main is a Sci/sci, for goodness' sake. And people like you, who make stupid, unfounded assumptions about people they are arguing with really torque me off.
In fact, my BoP and my Mogai have little-to-no problem with these things. It's my science ship and cruiser that has the problem!
Essentially, one mine launcher combined with one boff ability has enough damage potential to outpace the damage output from Beam Overload + boff ability + 4 tac consoles, without the power drain, combined with a 3-second long stun. They punch right through shields without affecting them. The web mines have very little cost for extremely high payoff. That is why they are overpowered.
First, you already defeated your own argument saying your BoP and Mogai have no problems....so whats your point? Also, the DDex didnt use its console to avoid them. It did it the entire 3 fights we had and never used that console once. I have a fleet DDex so i know about the consoles too. I dont know how the people who beat it beat it so easily, but they did and so that proves that people need to do more research.
Secondly, yes i am nerdraging. Not overly so, but a small part of me is. Because PVPers on this game are the worst MMO gamers i have ever come across. This game isnt even a pvp game yet you think everything should revolve around your stupid arenas that are irrelevant to the majority of the rest of the game.
I am going to write this next part in caps now so my point gets across....
THE HIGH DAMAGE YOU TAKE FROM THE MINES BARELY MAKES A DENT IN MOST PVE ENEMIES AND SEEING AS THIS GAME IS A PVE GAME AND PVP IS A SIDELINE, NERFING THIS WEAPON FOR SOME OF YOUR EGOS WILL THEN MAKE IT POINTLESS IN PVE.
This is one of my main gripes with pvpers. I can take or leave pvp, i play it for something to do as sideline fun every now and again. I play this game for PVE. So why should my decent PVE weapon and indeed set become reduced in effect for a minority of whiners? Many more people PVE than PVP on STO, and thats a fact.
be pro and use broken stuff against others that play bether than you ?
i will be pro and whine in the forum like the others, there is no way to avoid the mine's stun and since it is physical dmg, the only resistance you will get to it is "all damage resistance" buffs. the damage can be something like trics, but trics wont hold you certainly without any graviton generators and wont hold you still for na eternity without speccing to it. And for 4 or 5 seconds you are completely vulnerable so its a certain death if you get hit by a dispersal of it, i can make 25k dmg with tactical team 1 and dispersal pattern beta 2 only, is that fair and pro ?
the easy option is knowing they are broken, still use them and say "boom" when you kill someone with no skill, and still calling it beeing pro.
the mines are op and need a nerf
If you read what i wrote you will see i never said i was pro. Not at all. However seeing as you mention it, some of the people i played actually asked me to stop using them and i still beat them. The mines are just another tool.
And you are right, i do say 'BOOM'. Because its a game. And whether you admit it or not, you just dont like that someone else is saying 'BOOM' rather than you with alpha strike cannon spam, ha ha.
The bottom line is this. PVP is a sideline, get over yourselves. It boils down to the fact that most people aren't willing to alter their build in case it reduces their damage. Even though most cruisers/sci have to revolve their build around alpha strikes.
Hypocrits.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
they have twice the damage of tricobalt mines, since they can instapop anyone ONLY with the 50% bleed
they will hold you for 4 or 5 seconds WITHOUT speccing on anything, apo, aux to damp or ph WONT work
you can be damaged while you are held, it means that if the mines wont kill you, dhcs will
since it is physical damage. kinetic resistance buffs wont work, only "all damage resistance " buffs
that means, that engineer consoles wont work on them too
these mines are not op ! dont nerf them !!!!!
You have to spec projectiles, or they do a lot less damage. I tested it.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
I am going to write this next part in caps now so my point gets across....
THE HIGH DAMAGE YOU TAKE FROM THE MINES BARELY MAKES A DENT IN MOST PVE ENEMIES AND SEEING AS THIS GAME IS A PVE GAME AND PVP IS A SIDELINE, NERFING THIS WEAPON FOR SOME OF YOUR EGOS WILL THEN MAKE IT POINTLESS IN PVE.
The bottom line is this. PVP is a sideline, get over yourselves. It boils down to the fact that most people aren't willing to alter their build in case it reduces their damage. Even though most cruisers/sci have to revolve their build around alpha strikes.
Hypocrits.
That's really funny you mention PvE.
The deadliest weapon I use is those mines. Strange.
Tuck YOUR ego away, getover YOURSELF and actually listen to what people have actually said!
The weapon is OP, end of.
I hope it gets nerfed and I use them myself.
Its funny you mention builds, sci, the one toon who can demolish anything a Tac has to offer with one click.
Now you cry because your 'I win' button might actually be made sensible.
If you need these mines as a crutch in PvP, then YOU NEED TO RESEARCH YOUR BUILD MORE!
Oh by the way.
Tac is powerful, that's kind of the point. Team dynamic the tacs do the damage.
If you don't like that fact, become one yourself and see its not as easy as you think to do.
Or just go play minecraft.
First, you already defeated your own argument saying your BoP and Mogai have no problems....so whats your point? Also, the DDex didnt use its console to avoid them. It did it the entire 3 fights we had and never used that console once. I have a fleet DDex so i know about the consoles too. I dont know how the people who beat it beat it so easily, but they did and so that proves that people need to do more research.
Secondly, yes i am nerdraging. Not overly so, but a small part of me is. Because PVPers on this game are the worst MMO gamers i have ever come across. This game isnt even a pvp game yet you think everything should revolve around your stupid arenas that are irrelevant to the majority of the rest of the game.
I am going to write this next part in caps now so my point gets across....
THE HIGH DAMAGE YOU TAKE FROM THE MINES BARELY MAKES A DENT IN MOST PVE ENEMIES AND SEEING AS THIS GAME IS A PVE GAME AND PVP IS A SIDELINE, NERFING THIS WEAPON FOR SOME OF YOUR EGOS WILL THEN MAKE IT POINTLESS IN PVE.
This is one of my main gripes with pvpers. I can take or leave pvp, i play it for something to do as sideline fun every now and again. I play this game for PVE. So why should my decent PVE weapon and indeed set become reduced in effect for a minority of whiners? Many more people PVE than PVP on STO, and thats a fact.
I stated that my BoP and Mogai have no problems at the moment. Did you not note that I said that it is my science vessel and my cruiser that has the problem? Your point was that it is fast ships (escorts) that are the ones whining about it and having more problems. I hence made the point that my fast ships have no problem. Instead, it is my slower ships - sci vessels and cruisers - that have more of a problem.
If you want to make the case that the Sci/cruiser masters could tank them, you need to provide more information. Did you maximise your buffs? Otherwise, you are no more or less credible than I am. For all I know, you just dropped the mine on top of them with nothing more than an APO, and then they were crosshealed in time to tank the damage. Details are important. Besides, what part of overpowered despite counters existing do you not understand? You couldn't even refute the point that these are much, much better than other mines, to the point that they give too much for the cost.
Secondly, if you are nerdraging, don't blame others for doing so over the exact same issue. You're being hypocritical. In fact, you're whining a lot worse than we are. Do you really think we are the worst MMO gamers you've ever come across? Please, there are plenty worse.
Now, you trot out PvE/PvP dichotomy. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Would have made things a lot simpler. That said, it's an old argument, and it's something that only the devs can decide - whether they should consider balancing with PvP or not. However, that's no reason for at least letting us have our voices heard! In fact, why else would devs promote Boot Camp? Why else would there be devs dropping into OPvP at times? Obviously, although PvP is a smaller part of the game, it still has its role to play. And that means retaining some level of balance.
Besides, we've already suggested that the damage be at least switched to kinetic, which players can resist. PvE targets don't have much kinetic damage resist anyway, so this would hardly affect PvE. Would you be happy with such a compromise?
Anyway, my primary point stands. The Tholian Web Mines should be balanced to standard mines to the same level as the rep Torpedoes are balanced to the standard torpedoes. Common sense, don't you think?
Anyways, I'm through. It's not worth my time and effort arguing with you. Besides, I've made my points. I'll leave it to the devs to decide if the mines are worth a look at.
This is one of my main gripes with pvpers. I can take or leave pvp, i play it for something to do as sideline fun every now and again. I play this game for PVE. So why should my decent PVE weapon and indeed set become reduced in effect for a minority of whiners? Many more people PVE than PVP on STO, and thats a fact..
And that about sums it up. You could have saved the people a lot of time.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
We tested with a friend the Nukara set and web mines. He was in his Bug ship and me in the Aux DHC Vesta (Cmd. and Lt. Com. with Sci Boffs)
Do they deal a lot of damage. Yes they do. I cannot say that are OP or that they are not OP.
The test parameters where the following:
1. I fly in the mines. 80% of my hull gone (no dis pattern).
2. I fly in the mines pre buffed with PH, AtS and Brace 25% of hull gone (note 1 neu MK XI also equipped)
3. He shoots and move around and I only heal and move around. After the 3rd time that I hit the mines I get killed.
4. Dog fight. Not once I got hold by the mines. PS and GW neutralized the threat. (I think that ST also is a counter, I do not remember though if someone can confirm)
My opinion. There are just like any other mine. For sci ships that also use spam control abilities are not a serious threat. For cruiser beam boats using FAW I speculate that they also do not see them as a serious threat. For escorts they are deadly, if the caught game over.
I believe that depending the team and the counters or the use you can some that are OP in some cases and ok in others. Like the trans combo mine and torp cluster.
Comments
I have said they need looking at and I fly an eng/cruiser on my main and am only a part time tac/scort pilot, the main problem I have though is that while I have mine and small craft set in my UI options to always show, these don't so I can't avoid them if I wanted to
If you're looking at the Tholian Web Breakers, those cost 1500 dil for a single charge.
Pretty much. Like many mines, web mines have the "Low Energy Signature" property. Which makes them very difficult to see beyond 2-3km depending on Perception.
And how do you know they are tacscort runners? For all you know, they could have been on an alt the last time you saw them.
Also, what part of "unresistable damage" does not sound OP to you? Damage that can be boosted but cannot be reisisted....yeah, defend something like that, right?
Finally, have you tried facing tacscorts which use those things? They have the speed and maneuverability to place the mines more effectively and they have the BoFF slots to mount DPB3 and attack patterns. In fact, by far the most effective users I've seen are T'Varo and B'Rel minelayers, which can be lethal. A tac-buffed dispersal-patterned web mine plus a cluster torp equals a very dead target. I have to work overtime flinging CC and Scramble about just to keep up, as if they hit, it's a kill - no question about it. To keep even a cruiser alive with a buffed mine pattern - I have to kick down ATS and HE2 at over 100 aux power just to give it a sliver of HP left....and even then, it's 50-50.
Oh, I even thought of how I can stick it on my BoP - as it is, I wait for APO to go down and then use a tractor beam to lock down my target. Why don't I just stick the mines on the back as a finisher? Now I won't even need to care if TT is up - I can just let the mines bust through the shields. Thanks for the idea.
Funny I haven't died to these in my tac bugship, but my eng in a cruiser who normally takes SNB and heavy focus fire to take down has died to them. Stop trying to make it like this is something cruisers and sci can use against the evil tac escorts dominating STO, that isn't the case. Escorts with all kinetic build and sometimes cloak are the main ones abusing these cheap mines since they can move fastest while slotting DPB3.
Those evil DHC escorts at least give you the chance to fight back and use abilities to heal or evade away from them, the mines just disable everything so you are stuck and die, how is that fair?
Until then I think the mines are bugged, and I saw someone log last pvp and won't hold it against anyone that logs out to break free of these.
I think he wants everyone to fly around in a cruiser :rolleyes:
btw you said "bug ship" ....that ship is op ...they need to nerf it...that and BoPs ,hope that will happen next patch
However as i said previously, escorts think its only fair that they should have unimpeded freedom of movement so they can just cannon spam, without having to worry about anything else, and try to stay out of your weapon arcs themselves.
There are counters to them, just like every weapon in some way has counters in STO. Just because you haven't found it does not mean it isn't true. Even more likely, 99% of the people whining probably haven't even bothered altering anything or testing anything for the most part. Then nerd raging when you run into someone using them again and you get popped with another mine no scoper.
Easy option is to just QQ the forums crying for nerfs. Normal option would be to try and be pro, and find a solution. Someone mentioned these mines are best for escorts, yes they are. I use them in an escort. However it doesn't change the fact the biggest windbags and whingers are escort pilots who are killed by them. Seen some real nerdragers.
Heaven forbid you might have to alter your boff abilities, then how could you cannon spam so effectively?
i will be pro and whine in the forum like the others, there is no way to avoid the mine's stun and since it is physical dmg, the only resistance you will get to it is "all damage resistance" buffs. the damage can be something like trics, but trics wont hold you certainly without any graviton generators and wont hold you still for na eternity without speccing to it. And for 4 or 5 seconds you are completely vulnerable so its a certain death if you get hit by a dispersal of it, i can make 25k dmg with tactical team 1 and dispersal pattern beta 2 only, is that fair and pro ?
the easy option is knowing they are broken, still use them and say "boom" when you kill someone with no skill, and still calling it beeing pro.
the mines are op and need a nerf
Somehow you missed the part where everyone explained it is escorts able to abuse these the most due to being able to use the most buffs and dpb3, and maneuver to place the mines best. It is slow ships like cruisers who are getting hit by them the most. Explain this please, or are you just trolling?
You also say 'swap out boffs'.
To what may I ask, escorts already have limited sci and engi as it is.
I use them, I also want to see them nerfed.
Don't sit there and think because you use a cruiser everyone else should, I get bored in cruisers, I don't enjoy cruisers.
they have twice the damage of tricobalt mines, since they can instapop anyone ONLY with the 50% bleed
they will hold you for 4 or 5 seconds WITHOUT speccing on anything, apo, aux to damp or ph WONT work
you can be damaged while you are held, it means that if the mines wont kill you, dhcs will
since it is physical damage. kinetic resistance buffs wont work, only "all damage resistance " buffs
that means, that engineer consoles wont work on them too
these mines are not op ! dont nerf them !!!!!
Dropped on their own, unbuffed, web mines can be dealt with. It's funny that you should bring up the D'Deridex, by the way. It likely only tanked your mines because of its universal console - which grants it mad resistance to any and all damage for a period of time. Mind coming up with an explanation for the sci-ships? If they are tanking through multiple mines, without having heals thrown on them by teammates, I'd like to hear how that works.
Oh, so you think we're all perfect androids who can remember the location of any object in 3D space even after it has disappeared from sensors? Obviously I can see them initially. The problem is how they have low energy sig afterwards! Then they're invisible beyond a certain range - which is fairly short.
Uh-huh. Sure, I have counters. Once again, for whoever hasn't been reading, tricobalt mines had almost exactly the same issue. They had the same counters. However, they were one-shot kills with the appropriate buffs, like web mines, and they had a much shorter stun. They were nerfed by the devs. By analogy, these mines are overpowered - despite their counters. They do one-shots, like tricobalt mines, and the stun is even longer. Just because something has counters doesn't mean that it automatically isn't overpowered.
Besides, all mines have the same counters. Are you therefore saying that since all mines are countered by the same counters, they should all be capable of oneshots and 3-second stuns, or something equivalent?
And don't argue about it being part of a set and thus being supposed to be more powerful. If that argument applied, both the Omega plasma torp and the Romulan Heavy Plasma would be capable of punching straight through shields and causing a stun effect, or having a similarly devastating effect, such as draining 50 points from all weapons.
Quit generalizing and making assumptions about your opponents. You sound like you're nerdraging yourself, just for the opposite point of view. I've altered my builds, for goodness sake, and I still think it's overpowered. Not to mention I pilot a whole lot besides escorts. My main is a Sci/sci, for goodness' sake. And people like you, who make stupid, unfounded assumptions about people they are arguing with really torque me off.
In fact, my BoP and my Mogai have little-to-no problem with these things. It's my science ship and cruiser that has the problem!
Essentially, one mine launcher combined with one boff ability has enough damage potential to outpace the damage output from Beam Overload + boff ability + 4 tac consoles, without the power drain, combined with a 3-second long stun. They punch right through shields without affecting them. The web mines have very little cost for extremely high payoff. That is why they are overpowered.
if they dont want to nerf the dmg, at least nerf the bleed to 25% or 30% or something. or change it to kinetic dmg so that we can resist it more
Weapons are not allowed to be deadly for a Sci or Eng captain as they must all be nerfed to compensate for Tac buffs.
Its funny because you really think escorts are the ones most vulnerable to these mines instead of them being some of the primary users of them.
all of the rest tac oriented ships can get almost the same dmg if boosted by a tactical, its not about escorts dude, its about tac skills that boost everything, and theres not enough resistance buffs because its physical dmg, make it kinetic or reduce the bleed and everything will change
Which will make them more useless to Sci and Eng. If you reread my post I mentioned the Tac buff problem directly. These mines are almost useless in current form to a Sci or Eng in a cruiser or science vessel as these have no access to the higher tier dispersal patterns or to Tac buffs. Nerf these and then what? I find them underwhelming now, 2 mines every 30 seconds.
after people bought them?
I ran into these tholian mines in kerrat, full hull... dead in about 4 seconds.
Second time it took me down to 2% hull.
This is "fair" to some of you people out there? This is the kind of thing you want? If thats the case i hope Cryptic completely pulls the plug on PVP because its now become an absolute running joke.
When i have used them in pvp its the escort captains who fly into them the most doing their crazy 'fly round in circles cannon cpamming looking at buttons thinking i am so cool' and they also rage the most when they die. After all they arent used to anyone defeating their multi damage buff cannon spam.
First, you already defeated your own argument saying your BoP and Mogai have no problems....so whats your point? Also, the DDex didnt use its console to avoid them. It did it the entire 3 fights we had and never used that console once. I have a fleet DDex so i know about the consoles too. I dont know how the people who beat it beat it so easily, but they did and so that proves that people need to do more research.
Secondly, yes i am nerdraging. Not overly so, but a small part of me is. Because PVPers on this game are the worst MMO gamers i have ever come across. This game isnt even a pvp game yet you think everything should revolve around your stupid arenas that are irrelevant to the majority of the rest of the game.
I am going to write this next part in caps now so my point gets across....
THE HIGH DAMAGE YOU TAKE FROM THE MINES BARELY MAKES A DENT IN MOST PVE ENEMIES AND SEEING AS THIS GAME IS A PVE GAME AND PVP IS A SIDELINE, NERFING THIS WEAPON FOR SOME OF YOUR EGOS WILL THEN MAKE IT POINTLESS IN PVE.
This is one of my main gripes with pvpers. I can take or leave pvp, i play it for something to do as sideline fun every now and again. I play this game for PVE. So why should my decent PVE weapon and indeed set become reduced in effect for a minority of whiners? Many more people PVE than PVP on STO, and thats a fact.
If you read what i wrote you will see i never said i was pro. Not at all. However seeing as you mention it, some of the people i played actually asked me to stop using them and i still beat them. The mines are just another tool.
And you are right, i do say 'BOOM'. Because its a game. And whether you admit it or not, you just dont like that someone else is saying 'BOOM' rather than you with alpha strike cannon spam, ha ha.
The bottom line is this. PVP is a sideline, get over yourselves. It boils down to the fact that most people aren't willing to alter their build in case it reduces their damage. Even though most cruisers/sci have to revolve their build around alpha strikes.
Hypocrits.
You have to spec projectiles, or they do a lot less damage. I tested it.
That's really funny you mention PvE.
The deadliest weapon I use is those mines. Strange.
Tuck YOUR ego away, getover YOURSELF and actually listen to what people have actually said!
The weapon is OP, end of.
I hope it gets nerfed and I use them myself.
Its funny you mention builds, sci, the one toon who can demolish anything a Tac has to offer with one click.
Now you cry because your 'I win' button might actually be made sensible.
If you need these mines as a crutch in PvP, then YOU NEED TO RESEARCH YOUR BUILD MORE!
Oh by the way.
Tac is powerful, that's kind of the point. Team dynamic the tacs do the damage.
If you don't like that fact, become one yourself and see its not as easy as you think to do.
Or just go play minecraft.
I stated that my BoP and Mogai have no problems at the moment. Did you not note that I said that it is my science vessel and my cruiser that has the problem? Your point was that it is fast ships (escorts) that are the ones whining about it and having more problems. I hence made the point that my fast ships have no problem. Instead, it is my slower ships - sci vessels and cruisers - that have more of a problem.
If you want to make the case that the Sci/cruiser masters could tank them, you need to provide more information. Did you maximise your buffs? Otherwise, you are no more or less credible than I am. For all I know, you just dropped the mine on top of them with nothing more than an APO, and then they were crosshealed in time to tank the damage. Details are important. Besides, what part of overpowered despite counters existing do you not understand? You couldn't even refute the point that these are much, much better than other mines, to the point that they give too much for the cost.
Secondly, if you are nerdraging, don't blame others for doing so over the exact same issue. You're being hypocritical. In fact, you're whining a lot worse than we are. Do you really think we are the worst MMO gamers you've ever come across? Please, there are plenty worse.
Now, you trot out PvE/PvP dichotomy. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Would have made things a lot simpler. That said, it's an old argument, and it's something that only the devs can decide - whether they should consider balancing with PvP or not. However, that's no reason for at least letting us have our voices heard! In fact, why else would devs promote Boot Camp? Why else would there be devs dropping into OPvP at times? Obviously, although PvP is a smaller part of the game, it still has its role to play. And that means retaining some level of balance.
Besides, we've already suggested that the damage be at least switched to kinetic, which players can resist. PvE targets don't have much kinetic damage resist anyway, so this would hardly affect PvE. Would you be happy with such a compromise?
Anyway, my primary point stands. The Tholian Web Mines should be balanced to standard mines to the same level as the rep Torpedoes are balanced to the standard torpedoes. Common sense, don't you think?
Anyways, I'm through. It's not worth my time and effort arguing with you. Besides, I've made my points. I'll leave it to the devs to decide if the mines are worth a look at.
And that about sums it up. You could have saved the people a lot of time.
Fail noob.
Do they deal a lot of damage. Yes they do. I cannot say that are OP or that they are not OP.
The test parameters where the following:
1. I fly in the mines. 80% of my hull gone (no dis pattern).
2. I fly in the mines pre buffed with PH, AtS and Brace 25% of hull gone (note 1 neu MK XI also equipped)
3. He shoots and move around and I only heal and move around. After the 3rd time that I hit the mines I get killed.
4. Dog fight. Not once I got hold by the mines. PS and GW neutralized the threat. (I think that ST also is a counter, I do not remember though if someone can confirm)
My opinion. There are just like any other mine. For sci ships that also use spam control abilities are not a serious threat. For cruiser beam boats using FAW I speculate that they also do not see them as a serious threat. For escorts they are deadly, if the caught game over.
I believe that depending the team and the counters or the use you can some that are OP in some cases and ok in others. Like the trans combo mine and torp cluster.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}