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Federation Shuttle Hangar needs a buff
suaveks
Member Posts: 1,736 Arc User
The Type-10 shuttle description states that "shuttles are a bit tougher than fighters".
Type 10 shuttle ~2600 HP
Advanced Peregrine Fighter ~2770 HP
Uhh... not really, no...
The idea of a beam shuttle with less DPS than a fighter but more HP would be really great, but in their current state the shuttles blow up ridiculously fast and Polarize Hull is practically pointless with such low base HP.
While at it, the description states that the shuttles are equipped with "Phaser Arrays" - implying multiple beams, instead of just one - yet I've never seen more than one beam being fired from them.
In comparison, KDFs Advanced Slavers have around 4600 HP, fly twice as fast, have an additional quantum mine launcher and can steal crew and commodities...
So yeah, about that buff?
Type 10 shuttle ~2600 HP
Advanced Peregrine Fighter ~2770 HP
Uhh... not really, no...
The idea of a beam shuttle with less DPS than a fighter but more HP would be really great, but in their current state the shuttles blow up ridiculously fast and Polarize Hull is practically pointless with such low base HP.
While at it, the description states that the shuttles are equipped with "Phaser Arrays" - implying multiple beams, instead of just one - yet I've never seen more than one beam being fired from them.
In comparison, KDFs Advanced Slavers have around 4600 HP, fly twice as fast, have an additional quantum mine launcher and can steal crew and commodities...
So yeah, about that buff?
Post edited by suaveks on
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I'm not talking about the playable shuttle, but a hangar...
its bad dps
its bad hull
it has a bad ability
Dont waste time on it, and get the fighter/danube instead
as said before, get a federation shuttle thats actually worth something, and compare them with what the klingons got.
Of course I compare these ships because the whole point of this thread is to show how underpowered the fed shuttle are when compared to other hangars. Slavers ARE shuttles with beam arrays that are way more versatile and powerful than what feds got for the same price.
The craft concept was good, but the actual performance is unbalanced. There's little to no incentive to use the shuttle hangar, while it COULD have been a nice, more sturdy alternative to generic fighters and less maneuverable runabouts or delta flyers. The whole point was to show that even the description is wrong, as the shuttles are in fact not tougher than fighters and polarize hull is practically useless due to this.
So please stop with that "it's bad so you shouldn't use it" BS. It's bad so it should be tweaked, not ignored.
I question the logic of why they added such useless abilities to some of the Hanger Pets
Like Tachyon Beam an ability that at its maxed out potential had very little effect on a players shields.
Polarize Hull another ability that requires timing in order to get full use of its ability and they went ahead and put it on a non-thinking hanger pet.
And the latest is the nerfed tractor beam where only 1 runabout out of the 4 can use it.
I sometimes wonder if any of them even play this game.
I am curious of how they came up with Polarize Hull for an ability on a Hanger Pet, what was the intention for its use, did they just pick it out of a hat or was there a reason for its use, the logic escapes me.
Advanced Peregrine vs Advanced Orion Slaver vs Type 10
Mind you, Orion fighters are faster then all fighters in the game. The Interceptors being the fastest, keep in mind the name of that fighter "Orion Interceptor".
DPS
- AP > AOS > T10
DurabilityYou can't have it both ways, and to be honest the AOS isn't that much more durable than the AP.
I'll also point out a few facts about the AOS:
1. It randomly drops mines (which doesn't help honestly)
2. It kidnaps maybe 1-3 crew members (rarely and doesn't even affect PvE/PvP all that much)
3. Stealing items (Doesn't steal from players, and rarely even steals from mobs)
Not really sure how much better they are.....
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Antimatter_mine
With everything the game already has that's none canon, I don't think we need to worry about it...
The Peregrines are comparable to To'Duj fighters...
Comparing Orion Slavers to them would already give unbalancing results.
The mines are actually quite weak compared to player mines. The only mines that hurt are the Tricols from the Kar'fi Frigates.
If I was slotting for DPS, I'd slot a Peregrine over a Slaver..
If I wanted Utility from a fighter.. I'd slot an Orion Interceptor before any of the above...
Fed side just needs more DPS Shuttle options IMO..
I have no problem with the KDF having orion, fer'jai and drone hangar craft. Theyre all fantastic and provide situational use for a whole range of different pets. Its GREAT.
(I have a KDF character who specialises in piloting carriers and he's significantly more developed than my federation character)
The federation lacks these flavour options. I think this is something that should be addressed. They dont have to be mirror images of what the KDF get and indeed, they shouldnt be, but there's no balance related justification for the discrepancy in number/type of pets available to KDF/Feds respectively. You can argue lore all day, but thats a completely separate issue and has no bearing on gameplay mechanics insofar as balance is concerned (and if im being honest has never really convinced me that denying functional features to one faction or another is justified).
Honestly I just do not understand the complaint that providing Federation players with more carrier options impinges on the Klingon sense of uniqueness and flavour. There are many methods by which these elements can be preserved without completely denying access to particular aspects for one faction or another. It's also worth noting that in doing so, you actually increase the difficulty of balancing encounter design for the disparate factions because of the differing skillsets and availability of various functions (although typically this isnt a big problem with STO's fundamental encounter design philosophy).
Briefly, whilst i dont particularly feel that there's a burning need for federation characters to be able to carry frigates around (I think the shuttle hangar craft fill the role of heavier fighters quite nicely and provides a different flavour from the KDF frigates, albeit some of them need tweaking a bit), there really isn't a compelling argument from a gameplay perspective for them NOT to have them either if Cryptic wanted to go down that road.
To summarise, there's no reason that the federation shouldnt have access to a greater variety of hangar craft and there are various designs by which the uniqueness and flavour of both factions carrier ships could be maintained quite easily in doing so.
http://www.livestream.com/stokedradio/video?clipId=pla_b22f0f93-6402-430d-9dd5-75bc815bdc9a&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb
I watch the only good STO podcast STOked Radio
Want to learn more about any of the above? Let me know!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The way I and other KDF players tend to view this is thus: The Federation have their inexplicable advantage in escorts (which they really shouldn't have, since they historically haven't been that fond of attack craft), their strong science ship class that puts KDF science options to shame, and a tanky cruiser class that can still kick out sustained DPS in the right hands.
Stop 'suggesting' that Cryptic give our advantages (which are supposed to counteract YOUR advantages) away while suggesting little or nothing in return. We're getting really tired of it.
They are all fleet gear at t5, which means they cost ungodly amount of EC (I doubt even 1.5 mill does it) to get in to the fleet, ungodly amount of fleet credit and 45k dil
Compare to KDF which perform about as good and only cost 30k dil
Yes, that's a fair comparison.
They did that? Good to know, as I was about to get them but probably won't bother now.
What about the Delta Flyers, do they still have 1 tachyon per flyer, or 1 per 4 as well?
Cause Hull HP is the end all be all of toughness...
What is their shield strength? Shield Modifier? Do they have any innate resistances? I notice that you don't mention Polarize Hull, that would make a difference too.
Without any back end information on these you can't really say that they aren't tougher than Peregrines.
Introduce a new Bomber-type to the Feds called the Condor Heavy Bomber. Make it resemble a chunkier, beefier version of the Peregrine, slower but increased hull. Give it, at base, 1 DHC, 1 Quantums, HY1, and X2SIF1 ending with 2 DHC, 2 Quantum, HY3 and X2SIF3 at Fleet level. Limit them to Runabout deployment size.
While Advanced Interceptors out damage Advanced Slavers, because the Chroniton Torpedoes fire more often then enemies trigger and get hit by Quantum mines, the Slavers would still be worth it if they dependable did thier job, stealing crew and goodies regularly, but they don't, so adding the other Interceptorabilities like weapon and engine drain, hyperspeed the Adavanced Interceptors are way better.
At the Elite Level the Orion Interceptors and the Orion Slavers are more even, the Orion Interceptors have more weapons, with high dps photon torpedoes, 360 disruptor beam array, and Qauntum Mines for occasional spikes. Plus I hear Elite Slavers steal more often. Of course the Interceptors get the tractor beams on top of what they already having, giving them good dps. In fact I bet two wings of Elite Interceptors could beat any other carrier pets,including Qaw'Duns, except maybe Elite Drone Ships and Elite Mesh Weavers whose fire at will could be a major problem.
The Elite Type 10 shuttles are a joke in comparison.
Does anyone have this information?
You do realise that would make it a Frigate like the BoP and your than asking for twice the numbers, and can be launched from anything rather than just dedicated Carriers like every other Frigate.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Considering the Condor class is the 20+ man frigate weight raider used by the Maquis, it's rather absurd to ask for it to be shrunk down to strike craft size, while retaining frigate pet level firepower
I always laughed at that part in the episode. I was like "Are Riker and LaForge just going to start throwing them out the res door?!?!?"
But yeah -slavers are way better, although they have been borked recently so Advanced slavers aren't stealing anymore.
I tested it out... It was awesome!