My congratulations to the Stonewall Fleet on the event of their leader's community blog. @NicholasJohn16 is representing you well. I'm proud to know that you continue to put yourselves forward within the Star Trek Online community.
To all the glbt fleets in our community, I quote Sarek of Vulcan, "Your service honors us."
As for the critics of the blog, I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised. To quote Gorkon,
[after Kirk and Chang exchange words and stares]
Chancellor Gorkon: "Well... I see we have a long way to go."
And this is okay. the STO community has been growing together for several years now. The more difficult conversations are a part of that growth.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
That isn?t true there is an episode of Enterprise after the Xindi attack where humans are prejudice against any aliens on Earth and Phlox gets attacked. There was also the movement on Earth during the Dominion threat where high levels of Starfleet were conspiring to initiate martial law over the changeling threat. There are also several instance of greed through different series, Voyager when Tom Paris is running the replicator ration pool, the Poker games in the Next Generation, Dabo being played by humans in DS9.
Those incidents were the exception, not the rule.
And I would hardly call gambling greed, some people, especially those away from home a long time, simply enjoy the game.
I've gone to the local casino, dropped a few bucks, and left. I wasn't greedy, I wanted entertainment *shrug* there's a difference.
That isn?t true there is an episode of Enterprise after the Xindi attack where humans are prejudice against any aliens on Earth and Phlox gets attacked. There was also the movement on Earth during the Dominion threat where high levels of Starfleet were conspiring to initiate martial law over the changeling threat. There are also several instance of greed through different series, Voyager when Tom Paris is running the replicator ration pool, the Poker games in the Next Generation, Dabo being played by humans in DS9.
Enterprise was before the Federation was founded. Starfleet Martial Law isn't related to my sentiments and if poker games and Dabo are the best possible examples of greed in the Federation then my point is proven! :P
And yet, oddly, I do not remember the controversy when PWE promoted the PVP Bootcamp activity, something organized by specific players in specific fleets, yet offered to the whole community. Indeed, PWE endorsed the event more heavily by adding a title to the game.
Stonewall is planning a weekend of fun, STO-centric activities that are being opened to the entire STO community for anyone who wants to join in. It exemplifies the kind of extended community interaction that an MMO enables. Nobody has to come, but PWE is merely doing service to its community by letting its players know what's up next weekend.
Rather than generating grief for PWE over the guest blog extending this event to the community, I would hope this event would inspire other fleets to plan in-game events that would also rise above the forum chatter in the form of a guest blog.
Note that the forums are NOT read by a vast number of players; I generally find the negativity of much of it so unpleasant that I only check them occasionally myself. I would hope PWE will continue to post guest blogs announcing other community-sponsored events in the future!
And actually I figure I'm pretty pleased that this thread has generated fewer nasty posts than many past tweaks to game balance have prompted, so that's not so bad after all.
It is a little disingenuous to equate next weekend?s event with the PvP boot camp. That promoted learning an in game mechanic and develop individuals who can participate in what most would consider is a rather underperforming area of the game. It was across multiple fleets but the focus was on an in game mechanic which is a critical distinction from the event next week that is imposing external matters on the in game environment.
The event by itself is great and if individuals want to participate in it, then that is just as well. Events are run by many fleets all the time including some across multiple fleets. What they are doing is laudable and anything that improves the experience for members is worthy. I don't have any issue if people want to celebrate or remember particular things that are of an interest to a like-minded community.
The problem is the public endorsement via an official announcement by PWE The present blog is promoting something entirely external to the game and potentially controversial depending on the particular activities and statements to a portion of the community. They are promoting this external event through means not ordinarily open to individuals. If this had been announced by the fleet leader in Ten Forward or in General Discussion I would have no issue. However they are utilizing a guest blog to promote a message and viewpoint that some do not agree with of an entirely unrelated matter to the game.
By choosing to endorse this event, they are crossing a line that they themselves established in the forum rules to insert political matters into a game. It opens a can of worms. What if I want a pro-legalization of marijuana or other illicit substances event and we could couch it in event to discuss the decriminalization or continued prohibition on contraband/romulan ale? What if I want a fleet event in support of major political parties for the next election cycle in Germany and next year in the US in terms of the election for presidency of the federation? What if I want an event to reflect on the abortion issue and give memory to all the tribbles aborted by the KDF? I can couch many things in game terms. It may provide fun for some but certainly some may be offended and it would insert tension where perhaps it isn't desired.
I am less concerned about this particular event. What concerns me most is the precedent it sets and now other groups and individuals may come forward with ideas that are shot down. Then we have PWE deciding what causes are just and which are not. It causes anger and frustration and divides the community by excluding some from promotion that others received. It divides a community more so than it already is
And yet, oddly, I do not remember the controversy when PWE promoted the PVP Bootcamp activity, something organized by specific players in specific fleets, yet offered to the whole community. Indeed, PWE endorsed the event more heavily by adding a title to the game.
By choosing to endorse this event, they are crossing a line that they themselves established in the forum rules to insert political matters into a game. It opens a can of worms. What if I want a pro-legalization of marijuana or other illicit substances event and we could couch it in event to discuss the decriminalization or continued prohibition on contraband/romulan ale? What if I want a fleet event in support of major political parties for the next election cycle in Germany and next year in the US in terms of the election for presidency of the federation? What if I want an event to reflect on the abortion issue and give memory to all the tribbles aborted by the KDF?
And this is also a good point. Actually, there are much easier examples. It would be trivial to interpret Trek episodes as supporting poverty relief programs, particularly ones focused on providing food, and then turning that into some kind of in game event expressing support for such programs. As far as I can tell that's definitely not something that's supposed to be advertised on these forums, but it's hard to see any logical reason why it would be less acceptable under the rules than this is.
It's like Disney TRIBBLE Days. Disney does not organize it, they do not promote it, but they sure as hell take in all the money, and to make more money they make special red and rainbow merchandise. Ooohhhh Can we get a rainbow tribble that gives damage resistance to all damage type? And gives our captains a Nyan cat effect?
So what happens to those of us who do not view homosexuality as normal, are repulsed by it, some with religious views and beliefs, and even though we try not to say anything against anyone else from the view that it's "none of my business" are instead finding ourselves force fed such things in a game that we've paid for? Are we to be outcast? Forced into submission? Demonized? Will I be banned or will my post be pulled for having dared ask such things?
I don't wear a sign that says I'm straight, nor do I celebrate my hetero self, skin color, race, religion, or the like. Am I to be told that I should shut up and not say anything?
I grew up with Star Trek (TOS). Even those many decades ago I didn't find myself in any such difficulties of racial strife or religious polarization, among other things, that I'm seeing today. It's as though a tiny part of world that was minuscule in many ways, including being frowned upon for those who would promote hatreds, suddenly leapt out and forcibly demanded a bigger status than exists.
We went from a long tradition of not even mentioning the word "sex", because to do so was taboo, to an extreme of "if it feels good, do it" and without any sense of morality allowed to counter it. From stay at home Mom's who were always there for their family to a single parent with children that have no father nor real upbringing. A terrible tragedy to say the least.
Did anyone at STO consider that people let their children play a game online and they may not appreciate finding out what's being foisted on them behind their backs? Will STO blame the parents for having dared to trust STO? Did anyone involved with this "Guest Blog: Celebrating Diversity in Star Trek" give a moments thought to the rights of the parents? Especially those who pay the bill monthly? Did anyone at STO consider how many underage children play this game and read these blogs?
Subtle messages brought forth from Star Trek (TOS) over the years had their place for some, but for those of us who were not surrounded by people who had hatreds for this or that at the forefront of their existence those subtle messages were lost. It was as though there was some other strange world that really didn't exist, but was used to make a story line. For those who can't put this together, the old series, "Leave it to Beaver", actually did exist. There were standards and it was part of growing up. It seems today's standard is celebrate victim-hood and if you're not a victim you don't measure up. Being respected for your character need not apply.
Am I still allowed to play the game and post to these blogs for having dared ask these questions? Will I be ridiculed for asking or having my own views stated? Am I allowed to exist in the world or cyber space as anything that is good and just if I don't believe in this sort of thing as being a positive to make casual conversation about?
To everyone going on about children - you need to be at least 13 to play. So everyone here is over 13, and if they're not then they shouldn't be here, even if their parents allow them to.
At the age of 13 you're a teenager, not a child. And if you as a parent don't agree then you really shouldn't allow your kids to play in an MMO with people of mixed ages and language thresholds.
It's very very evident from any degree of analysis of the blog that the goal is to promote their TRIBBLE pride event and present it as the logical continuation of Trek's long history of social progressivism. So the blog itself is clearly designed to promote an event with a specific political purpose, which is equivalent to promoting that political purpose. If you can't see that you're making a deliberate effort not to.
yes there are many other fleets just like theirs in the game that isn't Stonewall.
I used to be a member of this fleet. I joined because I liked the inclusiveness and community and I met some pretty cool people whom I consider friends. Sadly I ended up leaving when this fleet leader refused to take action on illegal conduct that was taking place. I couldn't allow myself to be remotely associated with it any longer and left for one of the many other LGBT fleets in game.
The message in the blog is good, unfortunately for me it's tarnished by my experiences with the messenger. IMO this is one fleet leader that should not be featured.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
I agree that the message in the blog is good. But the messenger have lost all respect from me years ago. I have no problem with Stonewall members. Just their leader.
"It's easy to miss the messages behind the storylines today, but in 1966, Star Trek was revolutionary for its depiction of racial and gender diversity." The movies by Abrams are a joke made by a man who is a Star Wars fan and has no love for Star Trek. The movies of today are about action and flash very little of asking life questions and exploring, which is what made Star Trek great.
Couldn't agree more. I wish they would have carried that torch proudly in to TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT as well as they did in TOS. But sadly they haven't because for some odd reason a lot of the Star Trek fans are bible thumpers and they couldn't alienate them. That's why we have only seen heterosexual main characters.
Just a bunch of liberal garbage in my opinion. I don't feel the need to wear a tag to announce my sexual orientation/preference to the rest of the world, and this should be removed from games entirely. Since the game is not rated M, special consideration should be given to the kids that play this game. They don't need to know about "LGBT" stuff so early on.
First of all, according to Freud even children are sexual beings. That does not mean they practice sex or should do that. But I can from my own experience say that I knew that I wasn't like others from a very early age. Around 5 or so. At 10 I knew a lot more and even met someone else my age like me. But neither of us dared to tell anyone due to Heterosexual/Religious doctrine. (I'm not against religion, as long as people keep it to themselves and don't force it on others or make others follow their religious rules) If we had felt that it would have been OK to be like us and that it was accepted by society we would probably had a much better childhood.
The amount of children that commits suicide because they can't identify or are bullied or can not come to terms with their own identity due to being brainwashed that it is wrong. Those numbers are horrifyingly high. Homosexuality is natural, it is not a choice, it happens in different animal species, not just ours. Rating a game M because of this is ridiculous. Rating it M because of all the violence, well that is an other topic. Children are exposed to too much violence as it is already.
Society these days...
What month is white history month?
When is straight-pride month?
Can I just be American-American?
I seem to be getting lost in the shuffle!
We are becoming more and more of an exclusionist society each and every day, and now it is bleeding into my gaming which is truly appalling. The ones who are telling you this is a celebration of 'IDIC' do not realize they are being exclusionists themselves. They will say, "no we aren't, you are free to come join us" to which my response would be "no thanks, I will wait for the 'We are all people' celebration".
White history month is counted in decades and centuries. Most of the history books are written from a "white" perspective. Everyone know who Hitler was, but the king Leopold II of Belgium who was responsible for the death of an estimated 2 to 15 million Congolese isn't mentioned in history books. Why do you think? Because white people wrote the history books.
Straight month doesn't exist as it is a heterosexual world we live in. Heterosexuals aren't a minority that is oppressed, but the ones doing the oppression are usually heterosexuals. I have to point out so no one thinks that I think all heterosexuals are like that. I know that most heterosexuals are great.
If you want to be American-American, then you have to be a native. You know the ones the white heterosexuals hunted and murdered oh so many years ago.
So what happens to those of us who do not view homosexuality as normal, are repulsed by it, some with religious views and beliefs, and even though we try not to say anything against anyone else from the view that it's "none of my business" are instead finding ourselves force fed such things in a game that we've paid for? Are we to be outcast? Forced into submission? Demonized? Will I be banned or will my post be pulled for having dared ask such things?
I don't wear a sign that says I'm straight, nor do I celebrate my hetero self, skin color, race, religion, or the like. Am I to be told that I should shut up and not say anything?
Quite simply, you don't have to attend the event.
The event was ONE paragraph in this blog entry. The rest was about the diversity that star trek has brought to us, in some cases, whether it was wanted or not. I don't see it being force fed anywhere, it is one blog entry, the event has its own channel, and will likely be held in a particular zone.
As a whole, people don't have to agree with everything that goes on around them. Why should this world, STO, be any different? We don't have to like every event or even agree with the message, or content, or anything to do with it.
You have the right to your views (again, within the bounds of respect), as do others. It is natural that not all views will agree, and will sometimes clash. This is a part of life. But if you are not interested or comfortable at the event, then don't attend.
To everyone going on about children - you need to be at least 13 to play. So everyone here is over 13, and if they're not then they shouldn't be here, even if their parents allow them to.
At the age of 13 you're a teenager, not a child. And if you as a parent don't agree then you really shouldn't allow your kids to play in an MMO with people of mixed ages and language thresholds.
For the record, parents are legally responsible for their children's upbringing until they reach age 18, at such point they are then considered an adult. I have no idea where this 13 thing comes from. It is in no way any part of legalities and I suspect no parent would agree with it either. I know my 15 year old daughter abides by my rules and the public school she attends also does the same. They don't want to have to deal with me if I find out otherwise.
I'm getting married this weekend, otherwise, I would attend PROUDLY.
I find NOTHING offensive about this guest blog. Nothing at all.
What I find offensive is ships named after TRIBBLE stars or sexual inuendo.
Let us not infer that the mere mention of one's identity, can't be separated from sex that is done in private. We are NOT that limited.
What I find offensive, is comparing LGBT and jihad in the same breath.
What I find offensive is suggesting that people who belong to the LGBT community, should keep a low profile and blend in, just so that those whom may not approve can feel more comfortable about excluding, friends, family and neighbors.
We as a species, have a long way to go before we can Trek through the stars unfortunately. And it's not just technology that's been holding us back.
"Because we all share
an identical need for love,
it is possible to feel that
anybody we meet,
in whatever circumstances,
is a brother or sister." ― Dalai Lama
Everyone know who Hitler was, but the king Leopold II of Belgium who was responsible for the death of an estimated 2 to 15 million Congolese isn't mentioned in history books. Why do you think? Because white people wrote the history books.
Umm, that first guy you mentioned...wasn't he..umm...white? Are you also saying nobody other than a white person has ever written a history book? No offense but you come across slightly solecistic here.
Straight month doesn't exist as it is a heterosexual world we live in. Heterosexuals aren't a minority that is oppressed, but the ones doing the oppression are usually heterosexuals. I have to point out so no one thinks that I think all heterosexuals are like that. I know that most heterosexuals are great.
It is? I thought this was everyone's world. There's that word again...oppressed. Please just stop.
Originally Posted by mattachine
If you want to be American-American, then you have to be a native. You know the ones the white heterosexuals hunted and murdered oh so many years ago.
Because you were there and can infer their preference, right? That is the sort of comment that is against the TOS.
You have the right to your views (again, within the bounds of respect), as do others. It is natural that not all views will agree, and will sometimes clash. This is a part of life. But if you are not interested or comfortable at the event, then don't attend.
The "event" wasn't in question. The lengthy promotional of the events direction was.
To everyone going on about children - you need to be at least 13 to play. So everyone here is over 13, and if they're not then they shouldn't be here, even if their parents allow them to.
At the age of 13 you're a teenager, not a child. And if you as a parent don't agree then you really shouldn't allow your kids to play in an MMO with people of mixed ages and language thresholds.
For the record, parents are legally responsible for their children's upbringing until they reach age 18, at such point they are then considered an adult. I have no idea where this 13 thing comes from. It is in no way any part of legalities and I suspect no parent would agree with it either. I know my 15 year old daughter abides by my rules and the public school she attends also does the same. They don't want to have to deal with me if I find out otherwise.
That has nothing to do with anything mikester92 said.
He said that the game is rated for ages 13 and up, which theoretically means nobody here should be under 13 years old. It has nothing to do with the legalities of parenting, it's merely a guideline for parents to help them judge at a glance whether a game is right for their child. I believe he further implies that anyone over the age of 13 is old enough to be forming their own opinions, guided by but not necessarily beholden to their parents' viewpoints.
The "event" wasn't in question. The lengthy promotional of the events direction was.
I don't see you being forced to read an article, one chooses to do so. It's like reading a magazine, or newspaper. If you dislike the content, change to another article. Many people disagree with one view or another, there is no making everyone happy... we all know the lines. But they're true.
This time, those opposed to this article aren't happy, but nobody is being force fed it, either.
I notice 'tolerance' has been replaced by 'acceptance'. Because the quest for political power never ends, and 'tolerance' has already been achieved, they move their argument further down the field with 'acceptance'. No longer is it just fine to live and let live; now we have to accept it, allow our kids to be miseducated about it, even see it shoveled at us in our games.
The whole world is not LA and San Francisco, Cryptic.
I notice 'tolerance' has been replaced by 'acceptance'. Because the quest for political power never ends, and 'tolerance' has already been achieved, they move their argument further down the field with 'acceptance'. No longer is it just fine to live and let live; now we have to accept it, allow our kids to be miseducated about it, even see it shoveled at us in our games.
The whole world is not LA and San Francisco, Cryptic.
Wow. Just wow. What was stated was to "accept that diversity". Yes, you must accept that people are different, and lead different lifestyles.
Tolerance has been achieved? How so? There are derogotory terms and insults lobbed EVERY DAY, publicly, and nothing is said about them. So yeah... that behavior is tolerated, if that is what you mean by tolerance being achieved.
Now have to accept it, and allow our kids to be miseducated... wait, what???? Your very statement RIGHT THERE proves that you are intolerant of these lifestyles or choices. You say it is no longer fine to live and let live, and yet you make these sorts of statements? Where is YOUR living and let live?
You do not have to agree with a person's lifestyle, choices, or views, but stating that we must accept miseducation, having it shoveled at us... that goes too far.
Oh and by the way, LA and San Fran are not the only two cities, even on the US west coast, with large LGBT populations and Pride events. Seattle and Portland, to name two, also do. The state of California was one of the first to mandate that LGBT history be taught in schools. New York City also has a pride event. Boston. London. Paris. Moscow (though the state forbids it). Tokyo. Sao Paulo, Brazil. Jahannesburg. Sydney. Possibly the only continent without a Pride event is Antarctica and... wait. yeah. There's a Pride tour that hits there, too. I think I got all the continents covered there.
So before you assume that this is a small localized event, and that this should be kept from the public at large, and that kids should not be educated (not taught to be one way or another, but that this does exist...), perhaps you should look at the world around, and realise that these players presenting this event are but a small portion of the people they represent the world over, and that maybe, it is time to tolerate and accept their lifestyle and choices.
I notice 'tolerance' has been replaced by 'acceptance'. Because the quest for political power never ends, and 'tolerance' has already been achieved, they move their argument further down the field with 'acceptance'. No longer is it just fine to live and let live; now we have to accept it, allow our kids to be miseducated about it, even see it shoveled at us in our games.
The whole world is not LA and San Francisco, Cryptic.
Yes, once it reaches acceptance they will move on to it being required :eek:
You can't overdramatise this as your not being forced to particpate. Furthermore, you can't fear knowledge and if this community wants to invite us to share their views, that is fine. If you know something, and still dislike it, at least you will have a stronger basis for that dislike.
I don't like that PWE endorses this via an official announcement. That is my sole problem with this issue. PWE should not bring this political issue as an officially supported event as it opens up the whole political content can of worms. It is much easier and consistant to prohibit official endorsement of all items of this nature and leaving it to the members of a community to promote such an event via announcements in the traditional areas. Having PWE push an event is unfair, ill-advised, and breeds bad feelings. The first group denied similar support is going to be upset and vent their frustration on the forums and PWE will have an issue defending such a decision.
Yes, once it reaches acceptance they will move on to it being required :eek:
You can't overdramatise this as your not being forced to particpate. Furthermore, you can't fear knowledge and if this community wants to invite us to share their views, that is fine. If you know something, and still dislike it, at least you will have a stronger basis for that dislike.
I don't like that PWE endorses this via an official announcement. That is my sole problem with this issue. PWE should not bring this political issue as an officially supported event as it opens up the whole political content can of worms. It is much easier and consistant to prohibit official endorsement of all items of this nature and leaving it to the members of a community to promote such an event via announcements in the traditional areas. Having PWE push an event is unfair, ill-advised, and breeds bad feelings. The first group denied similar support is going to be upset and vent their frustration on the forums and PWE will have an issue defending such a decision.
+1 to you, for having a logical argument! I might not agree fully, but at least you argue with logic! (Are you vulcan?)
Diversity and tolerance messages are acceptable. What isn't acceptable is the blatant promotion of a specific fleets own event. Cryptic lose the link or lose any semblance of impartiality.
George Takei would be disappointed with a lot of you. Call yourself Trekkies? You disgust me. The true spirit of tolerance and friendship across all humanity is lost in this thread it seems.
And then you have ESD/Drozana/DS9/First city zone chats.
THE most hateful, racist, narrow-minded and intolerant places in mmo history.
Nailed it! Anyone offended enough by this event/post to be pushing the '..won't anyone think of the children..' line, should not allow their kids on STO at all. ESD chat is frequently far more offensive.
Nailed it! Anyone offended enough by this event/post to be pushing the '..won't anyone think of the children..' line, should not allow their kids on STO at all. ESD chat is frequently far more offensive.
Have to agree.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Star Trek, especially in its early days, was a beacon of progressive thought in race and ethnic relations. The diversity of the crew of Kirk?s Enterprise was a breath of fresh air, and the only real problem there - apart from Mr. Roddenberry?s occasionally problematic ideas on gender - was that the core cast consisted of two white Americans and an alien.
It continued to do amazing things as far as race goes into its later series. Possibly the most poignant statement on race relations, and the continued fight for equality, that I have ever seen in a scripted series was Far Beyond the Stars, one of the finest episodes of television ever made. Avery Brooks?s influence on Deep Space Nine was a wonderful thing.
Unfortunately, the last two decades have made very clear that Star Trek has little interest in addressing sexual orientation in a way that was anywhere near as enlightened as its approach to race. Only a few times are questions regarding orientation and gender identity brought up - the episode with Riker mentioned by the blog, the first Trill story involving Crusher, and the episode with Dax and Kahn in DS9. This, during the rise of the TRIBBLE rights movement to national prominence - during a time for the fight for LGBT equality that mirrored where the civil rights movement was during the run of the original series!
Even more troubling is the fact that, to this day, there is not a major Star Trek character, in the screen canon of the Prime timeline, of the Abrams timeline, or of Star Trek Online, who is explicitly anything but a straight, cisgender individual.
I love Star Trek, but, as far as sexual orientation goes, it has been anything but a shining beacon of progress and inclusion. It has been aggressively and deliberately exclusionary, through its entire history. It has been, at best, cowardly on the issue of sexual orientation, retreating from every opportunity to join the dialogue.
For a franchise that was so daring on racial issues, it has been disappointingly craven on LGBT rights, and Star Trek Online has been no exception.
I absolutely applaud Stonewall?s work, and intend to participate in their Pride celebration, but it was necessary to point out the rose-tinted glasses through which this blog post views the franchise.
Comments
To all the glbt fleets in our community, I quote Sarek of Vulcan, "Your service honors us."
As for the critics of the blog, I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised. To quote Gorkon,
Chancellor Gorkon: "Well... I see we have a long way to go."
Those incidents were the exception, not the rule.
And I would hardly call gambling greed, some people, especially those away from home a long time, simply enjoy the game.
I've gone to the local casino, dropped a few bucks, and left. I wasn't greedy, I wanted entertainment *shrug* there's a difference.
Enterprise was before the Federation was founded.
Yeah, becasue PVP never comes up when someone in political power is trying to ban Videogames to save the children. :rolleyes:
Wait..they bring up pvp when they are trying to ban videogames???? Okay point Neo
by the way i like your forum signature. Hes a great actor I hope they get him Bond
It is a little disingenuous to equate next weekend?s event with the PvP boot camp. That promoted learning an in game mechanic and develop individuals who can participate in what most would consider is a rather underperforming area of the game. It was across multiple fleets but the focus was on an in game mechanic which is a critical distinction from the event next week that is imposing external matters on the in game environment.
The event by itself is great and if individuals want to participate in it, then that is just as well. Events are run by many fleets all the time including some across multiple fleets. What they are doing is laudable and anything that improves the experience for members is worthy. I don't have any issue if people want to celebrate or remember particular things that are of an interest to a like-minded community.
The problem is the public endorsement via an official announcement by PWE The present blog is promoting something entirely external to the game and potentially controversial depending on the particular activities and statements to a portion of the community. They are promoting this external event through means not ordinarily open to individuals. If this had been announced by the fleet leader in Ten Forward or in General Discussion I would have no issue. However they are utilizing a guest blog to promote a message and viewpoint that some do not agree with of an entirely unrelated matter to the game.
By choosing to endorse this event, they are crossing a line that they themselves established in the forum rules to insert political matters into a game. It opens a can of worms. What if I want a pro-legalization of marijuana or other illicit substances event and we could couch it in event to discuss the decriminalization or continued prohibition on contraband/romulan ale? What if I want a fleet event in support of major political parties for the next election cycle in Germany and next year in the US in terms of the election for presidency of the federation? What if I want an event to reflect on the abortion issue and give memory to all the tribbles aborted by the KDF? I can couch many things in game terms. It may provide fun for some but certainly some may be offended and it would insert tension where perhaps it isn't desired.
I am less concerned about this particular event. What concerns me most is the precedent it sets and now other groups and individuals may come forward with ideas that are shot down. Then we have PWE deciding what causes are just and which are not. It causes anger and frustration and divides the community by excluding some from promotion that others received. It divides a community more so than it already is
You don't? I certainly do. I was part of it.
And this is also a good point. Actually, there are much easier examples. It would be trivial to interpret Trek episodes as supporting poverty relief programs, particularly ones focused on providing food, and then turning that into some kind of in game event expressing support for such programs. As far as I can tell that's definitely not something that's supposed to be advertised on these forums, but it's hard to see any logical reason why it would be less acceptable under the rules than this is.
Best. Idea. Ever.
I don't wear a sign that says I'm straight, nor do I celebrate my hetero self, skin color, race, religion, or the like. Am I to be told that I should shut up and not say anything?
I grew up with Star Trek (TOS). Even those many decades ago I didn't find myself in any such difficulties of racial strife or religious polarization, among other things, that I'm seeing today. It's as though a tiny part of world that was minuscule in many ways, including being frowned upon for those who would promote hatreds, suddenly leapt out and forcibly demanded a bigger status than exists.
We went from a long tradition of not even mentioning the word "sex", because to do so was taboo, to an extreme of "if it feels good, do it" and without any sense of morality allowed to counter it. From stay at home Mom's who were always there for their family to a single parent with children that have no father nor real upbringing. A terrible tragedy to say the least.
Did anyone at STO consider that people let their children play a game online and they may not appreciate finding out what's being foisted on them behind their backs? Will STO blame the parents for having dared to trust STO? Did anyone involved with this "Guest Blog: Celebrating Diversity in Star Trek" give a moments thought to the rights of the parents? Especially those who pay the bill monthly? Did anyone at STO consider how many underage children play this game and read these blogs?
Subtle messages brought forth from Star Trek (TOS) over the years had their place for some, but for those of us who were not surrounded by people who had hatreds for this or that at the forefront of their existence those subtle messages were lost. It was as though there was some other strange world that really didn't exist, but was used to make a story line. For those who can't put this together, the old series, "Leave it to Beaver", actually did exist. There were standards and it was part of growing up. It seems today's standard is celebrate victim-hood and if you're not a victim you don't measure up. Being respected for your character need not apply.
Am I still allowed to play the game and post to these blogs for having dared ask these questions? Will I be ridiculed for asking or having my own views stated? Am I allowed to exist in the world or cyber space as anything that is good and just if I don't believe in this sort of thing as being a positive to make casual conversation about?
At the age of 13 you're a teenager, not a child. And if you as a parent don't agree then you really shouldn't allow your kids to play in an MMO with people of mixed ages and language thresholds.
yes there are many other fleets just like theirs in the game that isn't Stonewall.
I agree that the message in the blog is good. But the messenger have lost all respect from me years ago. I have no problem with Stonewall members. Just their leader.
Couldn't agree more. I wish they would have carried that torch proudly in to TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT as well as they did in TOS. But sadly they haven't because for some odd reason a lot of the Star Trek fans are bible thumpers and they couldn't alienate them. That's why we have only seen heterosexual main characters.
First of all, according to Freud even children are sexual beings. That does not mean they practice sex or should do that. But I can from my own experience say that I knew that I wasn't like others from a very early age. Around 5 or so. At 10 I knew a lot more and even met someone else my age like me. But neither of us dared to tell anyone due to Heterosexual/Religious doctrine. (I'm not against religion, as long as people keep it to themselves and don't force it on others or make others follow their religious rules) If we had felt that it would have been OK to be like us and that it was accepted by society we would probably had a much better childhood.
The amount of children that commits suicide because they can't identify or are bullied or can not come to terms with their own identity due to being brainwashed that it is wrong. Those numbers are horrifyingly high. Homosexuality is natural, it is not a choice, it happens in different animal species, not just ours. Rating a game M because of this is ridiculous. Rating it M because of all the violence, well that is an other topic. Children are exposed to too much violence as it is already.
White history month is counted in decades and centuries. Most of the history books are written from a "white" perspective. Everyone know who Hitler was, but the king Leopold II of Belgium who was responsible for the death of an estimated 2 to 15 million Congolese isn't mentioned in history books. Why do you think? Because white people wrote the history books.
Straight month doesn't exist as it is a heterosexual world we live in. Heterosexuals aren't a minority that is oppressed, but the ones doing the oppression are usually heterosexuals. I have to point out so no one thinks that I think all heterosexuals are like that. I know that most heterosexuals are great.
If you want to be American-American, then you have to be a native.
*TO Cryptic*
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Quite simply, you don't have to attend the event.
The event was ONE paragraph in this blog entry. The rest was about the diversity that star trek has brought to us, in some cases, whether it was wanted or not. I don't see it being force fed anywhere, it is one blog entry, the event has its own channel, and will likely be held in a particular zone.
As a whole, people don't have to agree with everything that goes on around them. Why should this world, STO, be any different? We don't have to like every event or even agree with the message, or content, or anything to do with it.
You have the right to your views (again, within the bounds of respect), as do others. It is natural that not all views will agree, and will sometimes clash. This is a part of life. But if you are not interested or comfortable at the event, then don't attend.
For the record, parents are legally responsible for their children's upbringing until they reach age 18, at such point they are then considered an adult. I have no idea where this 13 thing comes from. It is in no way any part of legalities and I suspect no parent would agree with it either. I know my 15 year old daughter abides by my rules and the public school she attends also does the same. They don't want to have to deal with me if I find out otherwise.
I find NOTHING offensive about this guest blog. Nothing at all.
What I find offensive is ships named after TRIBBLE stars or sexual inuendo.
Let us not infer that the mere mention of one's identity, can't be separated from sex that is done in private. We are NOT that limited.
What I find offensive, is comparing LGBT and jihad in the same breath.
What I find offensive is suggesting that people who belong to the LGBT community, should keep a low profile and blend in, just so that those whom may not approve can feel more comfortable about excluding, friends, family and neighbors.
We as a species, have a long way to go before we can Trek through the stars unfortunately. And it's not just technology that's been holding us back.
"Because we all share
an identical need for love,
it is possible to feel that
anybody we meet,
in whatever circumstances,
is a brother or sister." ― Dalai Lama
This is not true, everyone has a history.
This is not true, maybe 20 years ago, but not in this decade.
Umm, that first guy you mentioned...wasn't he..umm...white? Are you also saying nobody other than a white person has ever written a history book? No offense but you come across slightly solecistic here.
It is? I thought this was everyone's world. There's that word again...oppressed. Please just stop.
Once again totally untrue. You should have paid better attention in school. How sad.
If you want to be American-American, then you have to be a native. You know the ones the white heterosexuals hunted and murdered oh so many years ago.
Because you were there and can infer their preference, right? That is the sort of comment that is against the TOS.
The "event" wasn't in question. The lengthy promotional of the events direction was.
That has nothing to do with anything mikester92 said.
He said that the game is rated for ages 13 and up, which theoretically means nobody here should be under 13 years old. It has nothing to do with the legalities of parenting, it's merely a guideline for parents to help them judge at a glance whether a game is right for their child. I believe he further implies that anyone over the age of 13 is old enough to be forming their own opinions, guided by but not necessarily beholden to their parents' viewpoints.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I don't see you being forced to read an article, one chooses to do so. It's like reading a magazine, or newspaper. If you dislike the content, change to another article. Many people disagree with one view or another, there is no making everyone happy... we all know the lines. But they're true.
This time, those opposed to this article aren't happy, but nobody is being force fed it, either.
The whole world is not LA and San Francisco, Cryptic.
Wow. Just wow. What was stated was to "accept that diversity". Yes, you must accept that people are different, and lead different lifestyles.
Tolerance has been achieved? How so? There are derogotory terms and insults lobbed EVERY DAY, publicly, and nothing is said about them. So yeah... that behavior is tolerated, if that is what you mean by tolerance being achieved.
Now have to accept it, and allow our kids to be miseducated... wait, what???? Your very statement RIGHT THERE proves that you are intolerant of these lifestyles or choices. You say it is no longer fine to live and let live, and yet you make these sorts of statements? Where is YOUR living and let live?
You do not have to agree with a person's lifestyle, choices, or views, but stating that we must accept miseducation, having it shoveled at us... that goes too far.
Oh and by the way, LA and San Fran are not the only two cities, even on the US west coast, with large LGBT populations and Pride events. Seattle and Portland, to name two, also do. The state of California was one of the first to mandate that LGBT history be taught in schools. New York City also has a pride event. Boston. London. Paris. Moscow (though the state forbids it). Tokyo. Sao Paulo, Brazil. Jahannesburg. Sydney. Possibly the only continent without a Pride event is Antarctica and... wait. yeah. There's a Pride tour that hits there, too. I think I got all the continents covered there.
So before you assume that this is a small localized event, and that this should be kept from the public at large, and that kids should not be educated (not taught to be one way or another, but that this does exist...), perhaps you should look at the world around, and realise that these players presenting this event are but a small portion of the people they represent the world over, and that maybe, it is time to tolerate and accept their lifestyle and choices.
Yes, once it reaches acceptance they will move on to it being required :eek:
You can't overdramatise this as your not being forced to particpate. Furthermore, you can't fear knowledge and if this community wants to invite us to share their views, that is fine. If you know something, and still dislike it, at least you will have a stronger basis for that dislike.
I don't like that PWE endorses this via an official announcement. That is my sole problem with this issue. PWE should not bring this political issue as an officially supported event as it opens up the whole political content can of worms. It is much easier and consistant to prohibit official endorsement of all items of this nature and leaving it to the members of a community to promote such an event via announcements in the traditional areas. Having PWE push an event is unfair, ill-advised, and breeds bad feelings. The first group denied similar support is going to be upset and vent their frustration on the forums and PWE will have an issue defending such a decision.
+1 to you, for having a logical argument! I might not agree fully, but at least you argue with logic! (Are you vulcan?)
Seriously? So, can any special interest group now use STO as a sounding board, or is a particular socio-political agenda required?
THE most hateful, racist, narrow-minded and intolerant places in mmo history.
Nailed it! Anyone offended enough by this event/post to be pushing the '..won't anyone think of the children..' line, should not allow their kids on STO at all. ESD chat is frequently far more offensive.
Have to agree.
It continued to do amazing things as far as race goes into its later series. Possibly the most poignant statement on race relations, and the continued fight for equality, that I have ever seen in a scripted series was Far Beyond the Stars, one of the finest episodes of television ever made. Avery Brooks?s influence on Deep Space Nine was a wonderful thing.
Unfortunately, the last two decades have made very clear that Star Trek has little interest in addressing sexual orientation in a way that was anywhere near as enlightened as its approach to race. Only a few times are questions regarding orientation and gender identity brought up - the episode with Riker mentioned by the blog, the first Trill story involving Crusher, and the episode with Dax and Kahn in DS9. This, during the rise of the TRIBBLE rights movement to national prominence - during a time for the fight for LGBT equality that mirrored where the civil rights movement was during the run of the original series!
Even more troubling is the fact that, to this day, there is not a major Star Trek character, in the screen canon of the Prime timeline, of the Abrams timeline, or of Star Trek Online, who is explicitly anything but a straight, cisgender individual.
I love Star Trek, but, as far as sexual orientation goes, it has been anything but a shining beacon of progress and inclusion. It has been aggressively and deliberately exclusionary, through its entire history. It has been, at best, cowardly on the issue of sexual orientation, retreating from every opportunity to join the dialogue.
For a franchise that was so daring on racial issues, it has been disappointingly craven on LGBT rights, and Star Trek Online has been no exception.
I absolutely applaud Stonewall?s work, and intend to participate in their Pride celebration, but it was necessary to point out the rose-tinted glasses through which this blog post views the franchise.