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If you knew...

dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Ten Forward
... the position and speed of every single particle in the universe at any given moment, you could extrapolate the past, present, and future of the universe.

How? :D

P.S. It's simple, really. :)

Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
Post edited by dalolorn on

Comments

  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You would be Zeus?
    Live long and Prosper
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You could tell where things had been and would be....

    And then you divide by 0 and get 42.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    ... the position and speed of every single particle in the universe at any given moment, you could extrapolate the past, present, and future of the universe.

    How? :D

    P.S. It's simple, really. :)

    you would need to know probably a bit more, as how the universe itself works, and laws that are hidden to us, but yeah, the basic idea is that :)

    an idea that came up in Falling Skies too, which was quite interesting (for the half sentence it lasted ^^)

    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    ... the position and speed of every single particle in the universe at any given moment, you could extrapolate the past, present, and future of the universe.

    How? :D

    P.S. It's simple, really. :)

    But if you knew all of that, you'd have no idea where the universe itself actually was.
    (Uncertainty principle's a *****, ain't it?)
    16d89073-5444-45ad-9053-45434ac9498f.png~original

    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,473 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Actually, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that if you know exactly where every particle in the universe is, you'll have no idea what it's going to do next, so you'd be just like the rest of us except with a bigger headache.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    but he was a well known nut

    Every particle is where its supposed to be
    at any given time

    and 5 minutes from now it will be were it was going to be
    Live long and Prosper
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    voporak wrote: »
    And then you divide by 0 and get 42.

    Never divide by zero. Ever. Every time someone does a sink hole forms in the middle of the ocean.
  • doresainbanedoresainbane Member Posts: 31
    edited June 2013
    *Brain explodes* Ummm... E=MC2? *Hands head in shame*
  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    voporak wrote: »
    You could tell where things had been and would be....

    And then you divide by 0 and get 42.

    *sigh* dang it vop....now shadow and kitsune (both of them) are going crazy because one of us divided by 0 :P
  • sosolidshoesosolidshoe Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    sollvax wrote: »
    but he was a well known nut

    Every particle is where its supposed to be
    at any given time

    and 5 minutes from now it will be were it was going to be

    Yes, that's right, Werner Heisenberg, the man who received the Nobel Prize in Physics "for the creation of quantum dynamics", and who made serious and lasting contributions to several other aspects of the field, was "a well known nut" :rolleyes:

    Further, your argument is nonsensical, since "where its(sic) supposed to be" implies purpose where none exists - every particle is where it is, and five minutes from now will be where it will be, a location which we can determine to a given degree of certainty(hypothetically) dependent on how much information we have about said particle.

    Since we can never have all the information about a given particle or group of particles, probabilities are the best we can do, and so the universe is only partially deterministic.

    If you want to dispute experimentally verifiable science, you have to come up with a better explanation and verify that experimentally - that's how the scientific method works, you don't just get to spew some vaguely philosophical claptrap and ad hominem the originator of a proposition you dislike.

    We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    *snip*

    I think that post and this whole thread is a little tongue in cheek. Besides the universe ended when Voporak divided by 0! :-S

    Lighten up a little.
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have a headache, and my nose is bleeding....is that good?:( I think I will just get back to the game, and kill stuff.
  • firebirdofwisdom#8314 firebirdofwisdom Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    ... the position and speed of every single particle in the universe at any given moment, you could extrapolate the past, present, and future of the universe.

    How?

    P.S. It's simple, really.


    Hmmm... yes it is simple.....:rolleyes:......UNTIL you factor in the EIGHT extra dimensions and all of their particles future past and present!!!!!!!
    !:mad::mad::mad:
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    ... the position and speed of every single particle in the universe at any given moment, you could extrapolate the past, present, and future of the universe.

    Space and time are the same thing. That's Einstein 101. So if you know one you know the other.
    <3
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yes, that's right, Werner Heisenberg, the man who received the Nobel Prize in Physics "for the creation of quantum dynamics", and who made serious and lasting contributions to several other aspects of the field, was "a well known nut"


    yes THAT well know nut
    who thinks tacyons can't remember where they are
    Further, your argument is nonsensical, since "where its(sic) supposed to be" implies purpose where none exists
    -

    that which has no purpose simply does not exist
    every particle is where it is, and five minutes from now will be where it will be, a location which we can determine to a given degree of certainty(hypothetically) dependent on how much information we have about said particle.

    and which The Gods know EXACTLY
    Since we can never have all the information about a given particle or group of particles, probabilities are the best we can do, and so the universe is only partially deterministic.

    that lacks ambition
    Anything can be followed tracked and mapped
    If you want to dispute experimentally verifiable science, you have to come up with a better explanation and verify that experimentally

    experimental?

    he claimed particles THINK
    - that's how the scientific method works, you don't just get to spew some vaguely philosophical claptrap and ad hominem the originator of a proposition you dislike.

    science is "ignorance by numbers"
    the cosmos is basically simple
    science is the attempt to make the simple complex and the real unreal

    basically its bone shaking in a white coat much of the time

    Matter exists
    its where it belongs
    Live long and Prosper
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,473 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The man is a well-known troll. As you can tell from those last couple of posts.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Four words: You're arguing with sollvax.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    No guys i simply do not believe in tachyons with thoughts

    Matter is Matter
    Energy is a property of matter

    and anyone who says different is probably crazy
    Live long and Prosper
  • sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    cynder2012 wrote: »
    *sigh* dang it vop....now shadow and kitsune (both of them) are going crazy because one of us divided by 0 :P
    Now look what you've done.
    16d89073-5444-45ad-9053-45434ac9498f.png~original

    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Intelligence, Life, and Free Will screws it up. If I have a bunch of particles that form a ball laying on a bunch of particles that form a planet, then there is the possibility that a bunch of particles in the form of a person could pick it up or leave it on the ground. Both actions have a certain probability of happening, but it is impossible to know which future will occur. Until this problem is resolved, then all the future is is a bunch of probable states of existence with no certain future.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    But as 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe is pretty empty
    molecules do as they are told by higher authority

    Be that a God
    My hand
    or some semi random force known as chaos (who is actually a female entity with pink hair )
    Live long and Prosper
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think I had a premonition earlier.....
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    In order to be able to observe the contence of space, you would also have to be able to view it and time from a higher dimention too, which would require a transition of a higher state of consiousness, the traditional theory of attaining an excistance of pure thought...or energy. In this you would not only be able to observe the universe and its functions, but could bend and shape its activites and yes even its direction. Like a scientist would be able to do in a petri dish. This is because as an outside observer, you would actually be able to shape and interact and function by and as pure thought, your will and understanding being not only a mix of collective consiousness, but as a share of all related wisdom and knowledge of others also occupying said space, much like the continum. The dominate mind being pure logic for wisdom, pure love for order. Individuality would be more difficult, as once you share all the knowledge of all the minds, being someone like Q's character is hardly worth your time, nor would it matter what happens on the planes below you, unless you enjoy watching bacteria in a microscope...if you get my meaning. The best line in a sci fi movie that depicts what I mean about the vastness of the universe, was in the original "Planet of the Apes" when Charlton Heston said in his log, "...it squashes a mans ego!"
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    catstarsto wrote: »
    In order to be able to observe the contence of space, you would also have to be able to view it and time from a higher dimention too, which would require a transition of a higher state of consiousness, the traditional theory of attaining an excistance of pure thought...or energy. In this you would not only be able to observe the universe and its functions, but could bend and shape its activites and yes even its direction. Like a scientist would be able to do in a petri dish. This is because as an outside observer, you would actually be able to shape and interact and function by and as pure thought, your will and understanding being not only a mix of collective consiousness, but as a share of all related wisdom and knowledge of others also occupying said space, much like the continum. The dominate mind being pure logic for wisdom, pure love for order. Individuality would be more difficult, as once you share all the knowledge of all the minds, being someone like Q's character is hardly worth your time, nor would it matter what happens on the planes below you, unless you enjoy watching bacteria in a microscope...if you get my meaning. The best line in a sci fi movie that depicts what I mean about the vastness of the universe, was in the original "Planet of the Apes" when Charlton Heston said in his log, "...it squashes a mans ego!"

    Uhhh... what? :confused:

    Anyway, I never said it was possible to know the location of everything in the universe - it is in fact impossible due to the fact that you are part of that universe, and your brain is composed of... you guessed it... particles. Tons of them.

    Essentially, to know EVERYTHING about what's going on in the universe at any given moment, you need to turn another universe into a computer. And this is assuming that multiple universes simultaneously exist.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Actually, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that if you know exactly where every particle in the universe is, you'll have no idea what it's going to do next, so you'd be just like the rest of us except with a bigger headache.

    Technically, you can't know exactly where every particle in the universe is in the first place, so Heisenberg has no say in the matter. :P

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    How about we posit a VERY small universe say 3 microns on a side
    with exactly 2 particles in it
    We can predict THEIR behaviour very easily (they will orbit each other)
    from there a sufficently powerful mind (as in a god or possibly a super computer the size of manchester ) can predict a larger number
    Live long and Prosper
  • catstarstocatstarsto Member Posts: 2,149 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Uhhh... what? :confused:

    Anyway, I never said it was possible to know the location of everything in the universe - it is in fact impossible due to the fact that you are part of that universe, and your brain is composed of... you guessed it... particles. Tons of them.

    Essentially, to know EVERYTHING about what's going on in the universe at any given moment, you need to turn another universe into a computer. And this is assuming that multiple universes simultaneously exist.

    In short, you would have to be the Q in order to do this. Viewing the universe, like they do...a petri dish full of bacteria as an alalogy.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    catstarsto wrote: »
    In short, you would have to be the Q in order to do this. Viewing the universe, like they do...a petri dish full of bacteria as an alalogy.

    Except for one thing: In theory, the Q are still part of this universe. Therefore, even they can't see the universe from the perspective required to calculate what I said in the OP. :P

    However... because they can instantaneously travel through time and space, they DO get pretty close to the real thing. :D

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Quantum mechanics says the OP is wrong. And even if the universe STARTED with only 2 particles, it would not be guaranteed to remain that way. Weird, but true.
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  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    if the universe starts with 2 particles thats as many as it can ever have (law of conservation of matter)

    It could wind up with one if one of them was to be stolen i suppose
    Live long and Prosper
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