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Other KDF Races get short changed plot wise?

orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
edited July 2013 in Klingon Discussion
I did a search to see if anyone brought this Up but I didnt find anything, however, I'd like to just kinda speak my mind on this.

While the federation is sort of open to your race etc. Klingon npcs do seem to assume your a Klingon, as do the missions. I understand that it is their empire and all, and like I am happy that they are available don't get me wrong, but like forcing orions to fight Hasaan the undying seems a bit silly. I mean I'm sure many orions even working for the empire are still loyal to the syndicate, and I'm sure even those that aren't really don't want to fight the person responsible for reclaiming it for their species. It just makes very little sense in the context of the game's plot. Having an orion go around telling how they will get rid of orions on nimbus is just bizarre!

I'm not sure how one would change this maybe like romulans have a choice fed or kdf Kdf people could choose a path of honor or marauding?

Its not like a crippling problem but it makes me lose interest in the main mission line since my character seems to be nothing but a pawn betraying their race.
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  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    To be totally honest the Nimbus stuff should have been a Romulan only mission and zone, the Federation has enough content to toy with, it doesn't make sense for Empire officers to take on their own and it gives the Romulan something unique as while they can be allied with the Empire it's not to say they will allow such things to get in the way of their ultimate goal to stop the Tal Shair.

    But I agree, Orions fighting Orions isn't right and I was disappointed that the Nimbus Zone was again another batch of content written from Federation view, I mean if this was to be open for all factions, couldn't it just be a random pirate group and not the Syndicate. To me it shows the KDF situation hasn't change.
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
  • pleasenonamepleasenoname Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well I play as a Gorn. And I made most of my crew members gorn. then I brought on an Orion girl. I regret firing my female Klingon science officer, she had good skills. There is only one Klingon on the team now.

    I really splurged and went all out and decided to purchase the Gorn ship using the c-store. I noticed that they removed the Gorn's logo from the players outfit choices. I really hope they bring it back. Role Players really enjoy the little details like that. The sub faction logos need to be available from start.

    They should make our different sub factions/species have their own missions that only that particular species can take. That would flesh out the story, so that we would have alternatives to the Klingon cultural storylines. Then there is the main Klingon empire storyline we could all participate in.

    Also I liked the old character models for the Gorn. It looks more like the original series Gorn. I would like to ask that Cryptic bring that back, some of us actually like that old style look better.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    To be totally honest the Nimbus stuff should have been a Romulan only mission and zone, the Federation has enough content to toy with, it doesn't make sense for Empire officers to take on their own and it gives the Romulan something unique as while they can be allied with the Empire it's not to say they will allow such things to get in the way of their ultimate goal to stop the Tal Shair.

    But I agree, Orions fighting Orions isn't right and I was disappointed that the Nimbus Zone was again another batch of content written from Federation view, I mean if this was to be open for all factions, couldn't it just be a random pirate group and not the Syndicate. To me it shows the KDF situation hasn't change.

    Yeah actually its funny you mention that because the first time I played it I thought it was still part of the Romulan only storyline until I saw other factions there. Then I was overjoyed because I thought oh maybe its different for each faction, and this is just the starfleet one cuz I sided with them. I was really hoping as a KDF officer I'd beam down and be like in Hasaan's club and get to dance and have my orion and her crew of pirates and slaves join in the fun and maybe even fight the townsfolk but no she was attacked (randomly) by her own people, and treated like some kinda human. But hey I just thought with all the fun I had as a Rom, they finally made everything as cool.

    Well I play as a Gorn. And I made most of my crew members gorn. then I brought on an Orion girl. I regret firing my female Klingon science officer, she had good skills. There is only one Klingon on the team now.

    I really splurged and went all out and decided to purchase the Gorn ship using the c-store. I noticed that they removed the Gorn's logo from the players outfit choices. I really hope they bring it back. Role Players really enjoy the little details like that. The sub faction logos need to be available from start.

    They should make our different sub factions/species have their own missions that only that particular species can take. That would flesh out the story, so that we would have alternatives to the Klingon cultural storylines. Then there is the main Klingon empire storyline we could all participate in.

    Also I liked the old character models for the Gorn. It looks more like the original series Gorn. I would like to ask that Cryptic bring that back, some of us actually like that old style look better.

    I agree fully. My crew is made up of almost all Orions, then some pirates for the dirty jobs a nausicaan a Gorn and a Lethean for unconventional methods of raiding and two "slave girls" aliens i made to look like a captured trill and andorian woman. (got a lot of slots lol) I too splurged and got two of the Orion ships the first one and the marauder one at the highest level. I pretty much consider her a member of the syndicate, I have a lot of fun doing the duty officer raiding tasks collecting prisoners as our "slave compliment" and whatnot.

    She certainly is not one for honor at least.

    It must have been annoying for you to have to do all the anti gorn missions as it was for me to have the syndicate act like im an enemy. I'd much rather smack around the disobediant citizens! :D Im a long time fan of the Orion syndicate, and from my point of view it seems that the orions are using the kdf for their strength and protection, and by nature, they dont care about honor or dying well, they just wanna live well and score.

    To me it seems so dumb to use three kdf species against them. It would be like having a fed mission where you have to stop the Bolians from doing something or kill vulcans. As is I just had to suck it up and pretend it was a sting operation or something but even that made me lose interest so I just got up to the part I could enter Hasaans hold and just used it to walk around like I belonged there. Hope they can put that map in the foundry when it returns so I can make an rp map for us true Orions that know betrayal=death.

    I wish they had done it like that KDF officers help their own, and Hasaan who is responsible for putting the very person that helped the K empire out take the throne! Maybe even have a small pvp zone somewhere and missions where you could harass the townsfolk taking stuff from them or helping abduct them, instead of always having to do things the goody-two shoes way lol. Maybe add in a counter to the motivation mission where you threaten them instead! Instead I find myself running around the town firing the targeted laser through people during the raid repeatable mission and pretending I broke the tv screen lol because I don't really know what else to do there cept kill scorpions and worms. If i could just go on the Syndicate's side it'd be a great place for rp with my Orion friends who agree with me on this.

    As for the costume thing, and I do apologize for the long post but this issues buggin me from the start, Federation people can buy bajoran and Terran badges and they dont even like the terrans, but no Orion gorn etc logos? At least we have the outfits though, which god if we didn't I'd be so trapped, I never much cared for the idea of those races wearing KDF uniforms, I like to think of them more as their own people just under the command of the klings but more interested in their own goals and business. thats why I purged klingons from my ship and duty roster and stuffed it with Orions and species that I see raiding for the syndicate here and there. I mentioned before I really would like bridges for the orion gorn nausicaan ships that would go better than a bop bridge and since they dont show them much in the shows this is a good chance to stretch creative muscle and try their hands at a brand new design worthy of the races. Maybe a more lavish Orion interior like seen in the ent episode "Bound" or a seedier one for nausicaans with Dom Jot (sp?) tables!

    A little off topic though, if the Suliban are sorta with the romulan republic it'd be cool to have them as a race choice or at least obtainable as a boff like the aenar.
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    orionsrock wrote: »
    Yeah actually its funny you mention that because the first time I played it I thought it was still part of the Romulan only storyline until I saw other factions there. Then I was overjoyed because I thought oh maybe its different for each faction, and this is just the starfleet one cuz I sided with them. I was really hoping as a KDF officer I'd beam down and be like in Hasaan's club and get to dance and have my orion and her crew of pirates and slaves join in the fun and maybe even fight the townsfolk but no she was attacked (randomly) by her own people, and treated like some kinda human. But hey I just thought with all the fun I had as a Rom, they finally made everything as cool.

    I doubt the KDF will ever get an equal standing with their missions being different to the Federation and Romulan ones. If they are intent on cross faction I agree that they should be in the same setting but different. Like the example you made that as a KDF character or Orion you join Hassen in his mission on Nimbus while as a Federation you remove him and a Romulan does what is necessary only to get to the bottom of the Tal Shair involvement.

    Honestly Nimbus should have only been a Romulan zone, then they could have had it that Fed Romulans fight Hassen and KDF Romulans make a deal with Hassen to get to the bottom of the Tal Shair plot. Federation and KDF players really don't need to be there, the Federation have their own missions and the KDF need more of their own that are Klingon like not cut and paste Federation missions or reworked Fed Patrol missions.
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well I play several Orion characters and they are pirates, traders, mercenaries, etc. For these characters, I see the Nimbus mission a sort of gang war, one rival group fighting another.

    But I see the problem. The more story Cryptic makes, there is less for us the players to fill in. Yet as the make no story, or a very flat story, lots of players will complain. Its is damn you if you don't, damn you if you do.

    Yet, there are possibillities. I played Frozen with my Reman character and I had a third option when confronted with Obisek. My character could join his fight. I already could do that. you might say. I had to disable transporter devices, so the Tal Shiar could not beam in and I had to kill some Reman who were on the side of the Tal Shiar. Different plot courses are the solution, I think.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    fovrel wrote: »
    Well I play several Orion characters and they are pirates, traders, mercenaries, etc. For these characters, I see the Nimbus mission a sort of gang war, one rival group fighting another.

    But I see the problem. The more story Cryptic makes, there is less for us the players to fill in. Yet as the make no story, or a very flat story, lots of players will complain. Its is damn you if you don't, damn you if you do.

    Yet, there are possibillities. I played Frozen with my Reman character and I had a third option when confronted with Obisek. My character could join his fight. I already could do that. you might say. I had to disable transporter devices, so the Tal Shiar could not beam in and I had to kill some Reman who were on the side of the Tal Shiar. Different plot courses are the solution, I think.

    I thought of doing that but I had established already in her bio that shes friends with Melani and Hasaan uhhh...... paradox? Instead I just added a little line about "now that Hasaan is captured (in my head its because of my romulan sanra), Zino took over Orion operations on Numbus. ITs my own little way of beating the system lol I know its not much.

    Yeah as an Orion I'd love to be able to help him shut the whiney townspeople up lol. Maybe at the end get a special Syndicate Doff instead of Law who would probably be executed by Zino.

    As you cans see in my Sig she's not the LAWful type :P
  • matixzonmatixzon Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Actually, I found more sense to the Nimbus story playing KDF that Rommie, I mean, the syndicate is supposed to obey the empire, yet here they are causing trouble, so KDF officers are sent to police the syndicate, and teach them about obedience.
    Other than that, I agree a lot of the missions and options, while very klingon, don't think about what would another species do, Orions and Gorn would probably be too smart to just attack, I remember one of the Empire missions, where you dialog can be something like "I could let you go and cause strife inside the Feds, but instead I'll just fight you anyway because that's the Klingon way", there they probably should have give the options to choose both that one dialog, and to actually let them go causing conflict (would make loads of sense on a Orion).
    @mawexzon

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  • rhinzualrhinzual Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    matixzon wrote: »
    Actually, I found more sense to the Nimbus story playing KDF that Rommie, I mean, the syndicate is supposed to obey the empire, yet here they are causing trouble, so KDF officers are sent to police the syndicate, and teach them about obedience.
    Other than that, I agree a lot of the missions and options, while very klingon, don't think about what would another species do, Orions and Gorn would probably be too smart to just attack, I remember one of the Empire missions, where you dialog can be something like "I could let you go and cause strife inside the Feds, but instead I'll just fight you anyway because that's the Klingon way", there they probably should have give the options to choose both that one dialog, and to actually let them go causing conflict (would make loads of sense on a Orion).

    Yeah, Gorn would be more than willing to let that Fed vessel return to Fed space knowing it would cause trouble in more ways than simply blowing it up ever would. Not to mention it would save time and make tracking down Drake that much easier.
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    First of all, I really don't get what you mean by saying the Federation is open for all species in regard of the topic in this thread. Every single Fed. race I ever tried was treated like a Human, or let's say neutral at best.

    The second thing is, what's going on in STO is that we get to play as one of the 3 factions. So we either play Starfleet, The Klingon Defense Force ot The Republic Fleet. They are a thing that is set in stone and every char. we create in a particular faction is treated like a member of that faction's armed forces/fleets/defense forces.
    So when we play KDF, we get treated as a Klingon. When we play the Republic we get treated as a Romulan even if we play as Reman. When we play Starfleet we're neutral/Human.
    I can't remember where in STO I saw this if my life depended on it, I think it was from the Doff missions of the KDF, but I saw a line stating something like "Not all Orions joined the KDF since Melanie D'ian's alliance with J'mpok...". And there you about have it - the factions we play are set in stone - so your Orion is one that's a member of the KDF. As such, to be accepted in the KDF, he/she needs to adhere to honor and behave in an apropriate way that is established by the Klingon Defense Force. That's why they treat you that way. That's why when High Command gives the order to kill Hasaan, you follow orders and don't take him as a pirate/smuggler/Orion fellow of yours. It's pretty much the same with the other 2 factions.
    Now, each of us can RP as anything we want, but as far as the game is concerned we are a member of the 3 factions that are set. And even if you RP as Orion pirate, or a Nausicaan pirate like me for ex., as far as the game is concerned we're KDF and follow the Chancellor's orders.

    That said, would it be better if each of the KDF subfactions were a member of their own racial force that happens to be alligned with the KDF, so we can get treated as a member of our own race? (like the Romulans are in some regard) Heck, yeah!
    So would be if Remans are treated like Remans in the Republic or if NPCs didn't discuss emotions to my Vulcan on the Federation. But, that is what we got.
    I would like to have a number of different approaches and scenarios for our chars. in STO depending on the species we choose, but in all honesty I don't see this happening, at least not in the near future.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The Simplest solution is a mafia style plotline for the KDF, Hassan maybe decides to have Melani D'ian wacked, so you have to take him out before the Syndicate gets lost in a Civil War.

    It is funny, I'm an Orion wearing an Orion Uniform, in Fleet Corsair an Orion Syndicate ship, which launches Orion Slavers and sometimes Orion Interceptors or Orion Tachyon Drones, and I use the Orion Syndicate UI.

    Yet I fighting and killing Orion Syndicate ships in the Sivren System why?

    I feel like Ensign Ro!
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Has anyone thought that the syndicate just has its fair share of infighting and power plays like any goverment and the mission is just an attempt to show that?
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    First of all, I really don't get what you mean by saying the Federation is open for all species in regard of the topic in this thread. Every single Fed. race I ever tried was treated like a Human, or let's say neutral at best.

    The second thing is, what's going on in STO is that we get to play as one of the 3 factions. So we either play Starfleet, The Klingon Defense Force ot The Republic Fleet. They are a thing that is set in stone and every char. we create in a particular faction is treated like a member of that faction's armed forces/fleets/defense forces.
    So when we play KDF, we get treated as a Klingon. When we play the Republic we get treated as a Romulan even if we play as Reman. When we play Starfleet we're neutral/Human.
    I can't remember where in STO I saw this if my life depended on it, I think it was from the Doff missions of the KDF, but I saw a line stating something like "Not all Orions joined the KDF since Melanie D'ian's alliance with J'mpok...". And there you about have it - the factions we play are set in stone - so your Orion is one that's a member of the KDF. As such, to be accepted in the KDF, he/she needs to adhere to honor and behave in an apropriate way that is established by the Klingon Defense Force. That's why they treat you that way. That's why when High Command gives the order to kill Hasaan, you follow orders and don't take him as a pirate/smuggler/Orion fellow of yours. It's pretty much the same with the other 2 factions.
    Now, each of us can RP as anything we want, but as far as the game is concerned we are a member of the 3 factions that are set. And even if you RP as Orion pirate, or a Nausicaan pirate like me for ex., as far as the game is concerned we're KDF and follow the Chancellor's orders.

    That said, would it be better if each of the KDF subfactions were a member of their own racial force that happens to be alligned with the KDF, so we can get treated as a member of our own race? (like the Romulans are in some regard) Heck, yeah!
    So would be if Remans are treated like Remans in the Republic or if NPCs didn't discuss emotions to my Vulcan on the Federation. But, that is what we got.
    I would like to have a number of different approaches and scenarios for our chars. in STO depending on the species we choose, but in all honesty I don't see this happening, at least not in the near future.
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Has anyone thought that the syndicate just has its fair share of infighting and power plays like any goverment and the mission is just an attempt to show that?

    Good point, I mean its not like Klingons don't kill each other often enough, kill your commander officer for Cowardess, kill the warriors of Torg, kill random renagede Klingons during fleet Alerts, during Klingon vs. Klingon PVP, and so on.

    Even Starfleet on very rare occasions have fought itself, abit usually when under external influenc like the Maque, Changelings, Parasites, those Tripod buggers whose name I forget, Khan and his ear worms.

    During one of the missions it does mention that while the Orions are allies to the Klingons they're betrayed th Empire before.

    Its ironic, the Klingons wouldn't have won the war against the Gorn and Nasicaans without the help of the Orions who provided intelligence, tech, troops and ships to the war effect, and Orions are now so subfused throughout the Empire and in key roles that the Klingons forgive crimes that they'd go to war against anyone else for.
  • generator88generator88 Member Posts: 698 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Has anyone thought that the syndicate just has its fair share of infighting and power plays like any goverment and the mission is just an attempt to show that?

    Too sensible. :)
    =================

    I'm sure your DPS is great, but as Kahless said, "a petaQ with high system mastery is still a petaQ." (Well, he should have said it...!)
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Too sensible. :)

    Well that explains the wierd feeling the thought gave me....
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    shpoks wrote: »
    First of all, I really don't get what you mean by saying the Federation is open for all species in regard of the topic in this thread. Every single Fed. race I ever tried was treated like a Human, or let's say neutral at best.

    The second thing is, what's going on in STO is that we get to play as one of the 3 factions. So we either play Starfleet, The Klingon Defense Force ot The Republic Fleet. They are a thing that is set in stone and every char. we create in a particular faction is treated like a member of that faction's armed forces/fleets/defense forces.
    So when we play KDF, we get treated as a Klingon. When we play the Republic we get treated as a Romulan even if we play as Reman. When we play Starfleet we're neutral/Human.
    I can't remember where in STO I saw this if my life depended on it, I think it was from the Doff missions of the KDF, but I saw a line stating something like "Not all Orions joined the KDF since Melanie D'ian's alliance with J'mpok...". And there you about have it - the factions we play are set in stone - so your Orion is one that's a member of the KDF. As such, to be accepted in the KDF, he/she needs to adhere to honor and behave in an apropriate way that is established by the Klingon Defense Force. That's why they treat you that way. That's why when High Command gives the order to kill Hasaan, you follow orders and don't take him as a pirate/smuggler/Orion fellow of yours. It's pretty much the same with the other 2 factions.
    Now, each of us can RP as anything we want, but as far as the game is concerned we are a member of the 3 factions that are set. And even if you RP as Orion pirate, or a Nausicaan pirate like me for ex., as far as the game is concerned we're KDF and follow the Chancellor's orders.

    That said, would it be better if each of the KDF subfactions were a member of their own racial force that happens to be alligned with the KDF, so we can get treated as a member of our own race? (like the Romulans are in some regard) Heck, yeah!
    So would be if Remans are treated like Remans in the Republic or if NPCs didn't discuss emotions to my Vulcan on the Federation. But, that is what we got.
    I would like to have a number of different approaches and scenarios for our chars. in STO depending on the species we choose, but in all honesty I don't see this happening, at least not in the near future.

    Yeah I don't see them putting the effort into that either, but A girl can dream can she not? :P

    Also the thing about the federation is that other than vulcans most of them behave like humans enough, and its so integrated its like a melting pot more than an alliance. In the show you see andorians, caitians, bolians just walking la di da around san francisco. Vulcans are pretty much a bad idea to have as a boff story wise because they will make them emotional. Many people who rp vulcans I realized make some excuse to show emotion like oh half human half romulan some kind of birth defect they rejected surak etc. for that reason, although if you ask me it undermines the character and takes away whats unique to vulcans but hey its not my place to meddle in that.

    Bajorans too are different, especially in that they would most likely grumble about starfleet more and during the bajoran missions they would face some internal struggle. Not as big but I found myself actually yelling at npcs on my baj. Fed klingons are also expected to take a lot of abuse in that they cant get mad when your crew insults Klingons, or weirdly enough if a klingon insults klingons...wtf. Then there are the Ferengi......yeah but thats about it, however none of them are asked to openly rebel against their own people.

    The thing that bothered me is that its just another sign of the KDF becoming federation lapdogs even when their enemies. Klingons are forced now to fight every single member of their empire excepting Ferasans and Letheans. That shows either A: their empire has no stability and will fall very soon, or more likely B:lazyness on the dev part. What I'm saying here is that to me the KDF shoulda been on their side. I found it sooo awkward having an orion going around basically saying were gonna get those orions. Its like...paradox much?

    To expect an orion to waltz into a town full of people harassed by orions and just have people treat them all nonchalantly is...odd. its like a triangle peg in a square slot, sure you can turn it around a bit so it'll fit but its still wrong.

    I just like dont see an Orion matron like myself being very happy with killing the man who helped free the syndicate from being under the control of those snobby other races. It would be better if they threw in something like oh he got tired of melani and wants it all for himself that I'd go for because hey he looks kinda gluttonous and he doesnt like orion girls apparently. But instead they treat it like the whole syndicate is an enemy of the empire (how did this come to be?). I just feel like us orion and gorn fans cant get alot out of that area. At least I was level 50 so i could just skip it and instead run around pretending to hurt the townsfolk like i mentioned lol.

    And BOY what I wouldn't give to give Yamlon Nuk a big smack in the face
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Has anyone thought that the syndicate just has its fair share of infighting and power plays like any goverment and the mission is just an attempt to show that?

    No just think they were lazy with this one :P
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The Klingons and Orion relations are wierd, but the Klingons knew that the Orions were tricky and manipulative when they absorbed them. They're like my cat, he'll be sitting on my lap, purring, then bite me for no reason, then go back to purring as if nothing happened. They deal with Orion mischief, because the Orions are so useful to the Empire, intelligence, trade, troops, tech, ships, assassins, Servants.

    As such they are probably under the vague protection of Klingon Intelligence and Chancellor J'mpok. Factions of the Sydicate have alliances with every Major Klingon House and many minor ones. The Orions makes themselves painfully useful which is why only direct offenders are punished and Empress D'ian is poliical untouchable no matter what kind of trouble she stirs up.

    As for Gorn rebels they are rebeling against King Slathis as well, so thier actions do not reflect on the Gorn Hegmony. And the Nausicaan Pirate are from Clans that did not join with the Klingons. Must Nausicaans clans appear to have joined, but not all.

    And yes when you join the KDF you are expected to be Loyal to the KDF, the Empire, and Emperor Katless first, House, Sydicate, Hegomy, or Naus clan second.

    Why so many from each of these races put there primary loyalty with the Klingon Empire first I do not know, but I suspect its a mix of personal ambition, fear for the security of thier species against threats like the Borg, and simple economic survival, or even simply a percentage of these races are drafted into the KDF by agreement with thier leaders.

    Still now that we have a Romulan faction, how much effort would it take to make these subfactions more like the Romulans? Not including mirror, retrofit, refit, and Fleet ships, the Orions, Gorn, and Nausicaans have 3 ships each vs. 5 ships for the Romulans (not including shuttles). The Orions, Gorn, and Nausicaans only need say a tier 1 and tier 2 ships and a turtorial and a few missions to be proper subfactions, I'm not suggesting something as extensive as the Romulan Republic, which is a full faction allied with the Klingons, although honestly how much difference in relationship is the Romulan Republic and the Klingon Vessel states?.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    lordgyor wrote: »
    The Klingons and Orion relations are wierd, but the Klingons knew that the Orions were tricky and manipulative when they absorbed them. They're like my cat, he'll be sitting on my lap, purring, then bite me for no reason, then go back to purring as if nothing happened. They deal with Orion mischief, because the Orions are so useful to the Empire, intelligence, trade, troops, tech, ships, assassins, Servants.

    As such they are probably under the vague protection of Klingon Intelligence and Chancellor J'mpok. Factions of the Sydicate have alliances with every Major Klingon House and many minor ones. The Orions makes themselves painfully useful which is why only direct offenders are punished and Empress D'ian is poliical untouchable no matter what kind of trouble she stirs up.

    As for Gorn rebels they are rebeling against King Slathis as well, so thier actions do not reflect on the Gorn Hegmony. And the Nausicaan Pirate are from Clans that did not join with the Klingons. Must Nausicaans clans appear to have joined, but not all.

    And yes when you join the KDF you are expected to be Loyal to the KDF, the Empire, and Emperor Katless first, House, Sydicate, Hegomy, or Naus clan second.

    Why so many from each of these races put there primary loyalty with the Klingon Empire first I do not know, but I suspect its a mix of personal ambition, fear for the security of thier species against threats like the Borg, and simple economic survival, or even simply a percentage of these races are drafted into the KDF by agreement with thier leaders.

    Still now that we have a Romulan faction, how much effort would it take to make these subfactions more like the Romulans? Not including mirror, retrofit, refit, and Fleet ships, the Orions, Gorn, and Nausicaans have 3 ships each vs. 5 ships for the Romulans (not including shuttles). The Orions, Gorn, and Nausicaans only need say a tier 1 and tier 2 ships and a turtorial and a few missions to be proper subfactions, I'm not suggesting something as extensive as the Romulan Republic, which is a full faction allied with the Klingons, although honestly how much difference in relationship is the Romulan Republic and the Klingon Vessel states?.

    I wonder how hard It'd be to implement a competing rep system like in freelancer and the ale assoc/inn league in Lotro. Have an alternate set of missions for the marauder bunch, and another for the honorable bunch and have like maurader rep and Empire rep and if you make the syndicate more happy then you get treated rudely by klingons and praised by Orions and Nausicaans etc. but if you do more "honorable" missions the klingons treat you like one of their own (or their own if you are indeed a klingon). It'd be fun to do that and boost the replay value. Rep could unlock access to special gear ships duty officers assignments missions etc maybe even a special base of operations for each side, Hasaan's club for syndicate and a hall of honor for Jmpok. Maybe even be able to choose your little identification logo to the one in my avatar.

    They could do one in the federation too perhaps with Section 31, where you could unlock special sec31 gear and insignias specially altered starships etc. They could have their own secret base or station and the mainstream feds could unlock like starfleet HQ on earth or something. Just tossing ideas around.

    Like I said I don't know how hard it would be to do that and I have no knowledge of programing or game design.

    I like it better than playing someone who is beaten down anyway lol.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,865 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The way I see it they're rogues, not all Orions are allied with the KDF just like there are rogue Gorn flying around.

    You're on Nimbus to return order, not to get chummy with some thug just because you have the same skin color. Now if you're playing some spy, good for you but you can't expect Cryptic to rewrite missions just to fit someones RP.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    The way I see it they're rogues, not all Orions are allied with the KDF just like there are rogue Gorn flying around.

    You're on Nimbus to return order, not to get chummy with some thug just because you have the same skin color. Now if you're playing some spy, good for you but you can't expect Cryptic to rewrite missions just to fit someones RP.

    A fair assessment, but I was just considering the character of orions in the show, It would be very likely that they would rather save their own hide rather than follow some code of honor, but if everything in sourcebooks and background info was correct the Syndicate has a "Betrayal=Death" policy.

    Im not suggesting it because of RP I more just wish Orions could be free to be orions and not lapdogs. Same with the other races. I know that if someone helped to take my species' assets back from some outsider, I wouldnt be so quick to kill them. Anyway like I said its not a huge deal, I just feel its a bit mean to orion players in a way, and like everyone seems to be federation lapdogs in the end. Klingons kill members of all the races in their empire, and starfleet does too. I just hate that it seems more like the Klingon/kdf players and the federation vs the rest of the klingon empire. giving two enemy factions the same goals just seems awkward if that was the case why even make them opposing factions?
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Actually I'd love to know why and how the Orions lost control of the Syndicate in the first place and how the Orions governed themselves in that time. What kind of government do the Orions have? Who paves the roads, makes sure the trains arrive on time, feeds the poor, makes sure everyone gets a basic education, and so on. I mean we know the Jade Empress Melani D'ian rules things now, but what about before, who was ruling the Orion Homeworld.

    I believe the original Orion Homeworld is actually in Federation territory, but I'm not sure.
  • queeg9000queeg9000 Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lol even the Klingon's themselves get the short changed plot wise.
    All the Npc's seem to think I'm starfleet..Even my BOFFs and the high cancel start talking like bloody feds.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    queeg9000 wrote: »
    Lol even the Klingon's themselves get the short changed plot wise.
    All the Npc's seem to think I'm starfleet..Even my BOFFs and the high cancel start talking like bloody feds.

    lol thats true. I swear they spend more time helping the federation than fighting it. They may as well still be allies. I feel like its almost a given that if you send a klingon warrior, Orion mistress, a Nausicaan a Lethean and a Gorn back to the days when the federation was weaker and battling the dividians they would have taken advantage of it.
    And the boffs start off talking like warriors like "this federation DOG!" or something but start saying things like "sir this is a very troubling situation what shall we do!?"


    ---
    Yes the syndicate is not the orion government. But it is said specifically that Melani became the head of the syndicate and sent the orions to the kdf as a token but Im not just talking about orions, I just think you should have a choice to go an honorable path or a dishonorable one. that would be more in character with what appears to be a very loose alliance indeed.

    I feel like the KDF is always fighting itself, you fight gorn, nausicaans and not to be underplayed OTHER KLINGONS! I guess what im really saying is instead of having an orion enemy story line and having the first chapter pretty much using yourselves as enemies, they could spend time having strike missions on vulcans or Tellarites or Andorians.

    I feel the same way with Bajorans who can't voice their opinions on the Bajor situation. If this was the show im sure a famous baj captain would pipe up some opinion on it all. All Im saying is just a bit of choices maybe an option like someone up there said about the Remans, just like an option to say like "oh your betraying orions" or an alternate thing to say on bajor if your a bajoran. I like my rep idea alot though. :D
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Irina_(Orion)

    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Melani_D'ian

    She increased the trade of the Sydicate and got them out from under the thumb of the federation so she's not been an unsuccessful leader as far as that goes and has far far more power then Raimus ever did.

    She had the power and authority to make a treaty between the Klingons and Sydicate that included the Orion homeworld and moving most of its population to Ter'jas Mor and gaining citizenship for the Orions.

    If the Sydicate isn't the Orion Government directly then its the ruling party or an organ of the Orion Government. Think of the Chinese Government and the Communist Party if China which controls the Government of China.

    As far as I can tell Melani is the head of state for the Orion Sydicate\Ter'jas Mor. Whatever flaws she has she's actually the savior of the Orions, whose homeworld was dying and would have taken billions of Orions leaving on it with it.

    Now not all Orions will recognize her as rightful ruler of the Orions, but odds are most of those would be living in the Federation, after all.

    The Orion homeworld was in the same system as the Rigellans, so it explains why none Sydicate Orions are common in the Federation.

    The Orion Free Traders are probably Orions who immigrated to the Federation and became citizens.

    I actually found the above articles interesting, I hadn't realized that Melani D'ian served as a Slavegirl as did her niece during these talks with the Klingon Empire, with Hassan acting as the face of the Orions.

    From one of my missions I take it the Klingons have discovered the Orions ruse and that she heads the Sydicate.

    And Melani D'ian is too valuable to the Klingons and has too much influence now in the Empire to remove her without causing Choas, she's probably the second most powerful person in the Empire after Chancellor J'mpok, and tied with King Slathis of the Gorn.

    The Sydicate is concidered a Vessel State of the Klingon Empire as is the Gorn Hegomy and the Alliance of Nausicaan Clans. Not sure what the Ferasan and Leathan nations call themselves.

    And I miss called her, she's the Emerald Empress.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Orion_Syndicate

    Scroll down to the part that say Star Trek Online Timeline.

    Ter'jas Mor is a Vassal State of the Empire, the Klingon giving the Orions weapons, ships, and Ter'jas Mor in exchange for Intellience network, alliagance, and technology (which I'm guessing includes the Flight Deck Cruiser designs, as well as thier Fights and Drones as well as what ever the Orions stole from the Federation and from the ruins of thier own history).

    The Orions have colonies, but I'm guessing none suitable for an influx of billions or to act as a homeworld.
  • pleasenonamepleasenoname Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yes it bothered me flying around in a bird of prey shooting down Gorn ships.
    What I want to do now is maraud against Klingon players in my Gorn ship.

    I've only played Nimbus with my Federation alien. Nimbus is a treaty planet for all three factions though. so in terms of story that make sense that every faction can come there.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    Yes it bothered me flying around in a bird of prey shooting down Gorn ships.
    What I want to do now is maraud against Klingon players in my Gorn ship.

    I've only played Nimbus with my Federation alien. Nimbus is a treaty planet for all three factions though. so in terms of story that make sense that every faction can come there.

    Haha! I make a point to make it clear that my orion has no remorse picking off birds of prey, selling her crewmembers to the syndicate, and spying, looting, framing, messing with the politics of, and all out disrupting the klingon houses.

    I got her all orion/naus/gorn/leth boffs AND Doffs. (other than the marauder ones, and a collection of female klingons i refer to as "Slaves") so we really are a "marauder crew".

    But she helps the klingons enough that they are afraid to touch her :D her plan all along!



    I just think they should have avoided using the kdf's own races against them its just too confusing and disruptive and it really feels like the kdf is just the federation with different races and ships when they do that.
  • orionsrockorionsrock Member Posts: 52
    edited June 2013
    lordgyor wrote: »
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Irina_(Orion)

    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Melani_D'ian

    She increased the trade of the Sydicate and got them out from under the thumb of the federation so she's not been an unsuccessful leader as far as that goes and has far far more power then Raimus ever did.

    She had the power and authority to make a treaty between the Klingons and Sydicate that included the Orion homeworld and moving most of its population to Ter'jas Mor and gaining citizenship for the Orions.

    If the Sydicate isn't the Orion Government directly then its the ruling party or an organ of the Orion Government. Think of the Chinese Government and the Communist Party if China which controls the Government of China.

    As far as I can tell Melani is the head of state for the Orion Sydicate\Ter'jas Mor. Whatever flaws she has she's actually the savior of the Orions, whose homeworld was dying and would have taken billions of Orions leaving on it with it.

    Now not all Orions will recognize her as rightful ruler of the Orions, but odds are most of those would be living in the Federation, after all.

    The Orion homeworld was in the same system as the Rigellans, so it explains why none Sydicate Orions are common in the Federation.

    The Orion Free Traders are probably Orions who immigrated to the Federation and became citizens.

    I actually found the above articles interesting, I hadn't realized that Melani D'ian served as a Slavegirl as did her niece during these talks with the Klingon Empire, with Hassan acting as the face of the Orions.

    From one of my missions I take it the Klingons have discovered the Orions ruse and that she heads the Sydicate.

    And Melani D'ian is too valuable to the Klingons and has too much influence now in the Empire to remove her without causing Choas, she's probably the second most powerful person in the Empire after Chancellor J'mpok, and tied with King Slathis of the Gorn.

    The Sydicate is concidered a Vessel State of the Klingon Empire as is the Gorn Hegomy and the Alliance of Nausicaan Clans. Not sure what the Ferasan and Leathan nations call themselves.

    And I miss called her, she's the Emerald Empress.

    Im not sure if they even have much of a power (letheans and ferasans) I know letheans were in ds9, they didnt go into much detail, and Ferasans are a estraz of the Kzinti (which they couldnt get the rights for) from the animated series, who were shown in the episode "The slaver weapon" shown to have some psychic members, and stated that their females were "dumb animals" and not considered really sapient (wether this is true or just kzinti propaganda IDK).

    But anywho, as you said a good number of orions would be loyal to Melani which I take it as loyal first to her. But It makes me wonder if it was really the klingons who wanted hasaan removed or Melani herself. I know the whole nimbus thing for the klingons is not really well developed, and more of a OK selling weapons to romulans bad romulans hate klings go kill! But perhaps D'ian could have tipped hasaan off. I'd like to think of it that way, as he may have gained too much power and as the little informant by the cage says he doesnt like women telling him what to do (cept Melani) but maybe she thought that may change soon. (lol im trying). Thats the only comfort out of this I could concede to.

    I would have loved to visit Ter'Jas Nor get a few missions from her directly from her maybe a side mision chain for marauding. I'd just like to be the bad girl for once. no honor no peace talks no saving federation members just unprovoked attacks, conquest, shady deals, and wild hedonism.

    A good day to die is not on our calendar!

    When the foundry finally returns after its irritating hiatus I'm probably gonna churn out some syndicate missions to blow off some steam so to speak. :P
  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    orionsrock wrote: »
    A fair assessment, but I was just considering the character of orions in the show, It would be very likely that they would rather save their own hide rather than follow some code of honor, but if everything in sourcebooks and background info was correct the Syndicate has a "Betrayal=Death" policy.

    They are saving their own hide by joining the Empire that follows the codes of honor.
    Their original homeworld was depleted of it's resources and devastated from pollution, so Melanie D'ian started negotiations with the Klingon Empire and the Breen Confederacy for a new homeworld in exchange for espionage and technology described as "ancient secrets that the Orions know". Now maybe it's just me, but I think it was better for the Orions to go with the Klingons than the Breen, with Klingons at least you get to see the face of the one you're cutting a deal with.
    Point worth to remember is that the Trade Union of the Federation, due to increased raids made by the Orions, were pressuring Nan Bacco to deal with the Syndicate raids swiftly and promptly or they'll stop hauling cargo for Starfleet, something that the Federation on the brink of war with the Klingon Empire could not afford. They may be peace lovers, but believe me, you don't want Starfleet on your case, that won't end well.
    So, as a response, Melanie D'ian makes an accord with J'mpok that brings the Orions into the Empire as allies and provides them with Ter'jas Mor - a new homeworld. It's basically a win-win for them. Why? The Empire has no strict rules. In times of war, the Orions will be called upon when needed, but other than that every captain is free to do what he/she wants. They can organize raids, attack everything that does not carry an Empire transponder, take hostages, organize slavery or whatever shady business Orions are up to these days. And after a raid, when Orions are chased back by a federation fleet they can fall back in the safety of the Empire, knowing that Starfleet will not continue the possy to Ter'jas Mor, having to face the big bad Klingon fleet at the border of Klingon space.
    lordgyor wrote: »
    Actually I'd love to know why and how the Orions lost control of the Syndicate in the first place and how the Orions governed themselves in that time. What kind of government do the Orions have? Who paves the roads, makes sure the trains arrive on time, feeds the poor, makes sure everyone gets a basic education, and so on. I mean we know the Jade Empress Melani D'ian rules things now, but what about before, who was ruling the Orion Homeworld.

    *Points at the isle of Tortuga from the Pirates of the Caribbean movies* :D

    lordgyor wrote: »
    I believe the original Orion Homeworld is actually in Federation territory, but I'm not sure.

    It falls under the so called Federation territory, but because we're talking about space, and especially Federation territory (That doesn't dominate and subjugate every world under their domain like Klingons or Romulans would) it not actually "their" space in such a riggid form. It's more of a region where Fed worlds are dominant and most numerous, but there are many independent worlds with their own territories in space within that Fed. dominated space as I presume was the case with the Orions.
    Also, Nausicaa would also fall under Federation territory, it should be in Regulus.
    orionsrock wrote: »
    But anywho, as you said a good number of orions would be loyal to Melani which I take it as loyal first to her. But It makes me wonder if it was really the klingons who wanted hasaan removed or Melani herself. I know the whole nimbus thing for the klingons is not really well developed, and more of a OK selling weapons to romulans bad romulans hate klings go kill! But perhaps D'ian could have tipped hasaan off. I'd like to think of it that way, as he may have gained too much power and as the little informant by the cage says he doesnt like women telling him what to do (cept Melani) but maybe she thought that may change soon. (lol im trying). Thats the only comfort out of this I could concede to.

    One thing I picked up reading all the lore in STO tied to "The path to 2409" is that Melanie is not dumb. I believe she plays her own game and plays it rather well. Her ties are stronger with the House of J'mpok than to the Empire itself. I believe that she works closely with the Chancellor, especially on issues related to the Syndicate. She sent 1000 Orion girls to "serve" in all the Klingon Great Houses. She is the one that had Hassan the Undying assasinate Raimus. Now, probably she has decided that Hassan becomed a liability as well, so he had to go.
    Also, she might be the Emerald Empress of the Orion Syndicate that is consisted of people that live the outlaw, criminal lifestyle and are opportunists, but don't underestimate her intelligence. I assume she is fully aware that the Tal'Shiar has gone berserk and noone can guarantee that the thalaron weapons Hassan wanted to sell would not be aimed on Ter'jas Mor. After all, they are now allied with the Klingon Empire, the blood sworn enemies of the RSE. So from their perspective, the situation had to be dealt with as well.
    orionsrock wrote: »
    I would have loved to visit Ter'Jas Nor get a few missions from her directly from her maybe a side mision chain for marauding. I'd just like to be the bad girl for once. no honor no peace talks no saving federation members just unprovoked attacks, conquest, shady deals, and wild hedonism.

    A good day to die is not on our calendar!

    Hope remains that Cryptic's ever growing dev. team working on STO will continue to grow together with the game, so one day in the future they'll have enough resources at their disposal to do this and separate the different species behavior and missions based on their racial traits and tradition.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Now that presidence has been set by the Romulan Republic, I think it would be awesome to see Orions become a Klingon allied faction or subfaction.
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