Last Stand Mission now WAY to easy...such a shame

elemberq333 · June 2013

No challenge at all to the mission now....

I tried it after todays patch because they said they toned it down and boy did they ever, I never took one shot at the command ship and all of a sudden the mission commander comes on and says, "after destroying the command ship the Elachi fleet is in retreat and New Romulus will live on to see better days ahead..." Mission complete...

Such a shame they took all challenge out of the mission I guess if you want any challenge at all you need to go to higher difficulty then normal, normal I blew up two support ships and suddenly it was all over and mission compete.

First two waves stay out of the battle and stay cloaked and just hit the objective points when prompted to and then retreat to safe location on map and wait it out...then command ships warp in blow up a few ships on parameter and you will be victorious...way too easy if you ask me...:mad::(

warmaker001b · June 2013

I guess they need to make the game easier for the Faceroll Crowd.

elemberq333 · June 2013

Yeah, sorry I should have said "Devils Choice" Mission, its the mission where you are defending New Romulus, the one after blowing up the Elachi Space station...

The Last Stand is un altered from its previous state and that one is still a bit of a challenge but still pretty easy once you understand the tactics you need to employ to be successful.

jonsills · June 2013

"Normal" is supposed to be relatively easy. That's why higher difficulty settings exist.

However, I still feel the mission was fine the way it was. I'm not going to be pitching a big ol' hissy-fit because it's easier now - I understand some folks can't take having to res that many times - but next time I run the mission, I think I'll miss the old way a bit...

virusdancer · June 2013

jonsills wrote: »

"Normal" is supposed to be relatively easy. That's why higher difficulty settings exist.

Speaking of difficulty settings...

Normal
Advanced
Elite

It's one of those things, where I believe they need an additional level added.

Casual
Normal
Advanced
Elite

Would solve many things, though some folks enjoy believing they're playing on a Normal level when they're actually playing at a Casual level.

warmaker001b · June 2013

We're also talking about a crowd that doesn't even know what adjusting shield facing and distribution are.

Sleepwalk Gameplay Mode.

tsurutafan01 · June 2013

The mission was obviously broken before and only the largest kind of troglodyte could claim otherwise. The problems with it had nothing to do with difficulty, they had to do with the ludicrous time investment required. If you need that explained to you, please leave the internet.

They did tone it down too far, but that's typical around here. All nerfs only come in nuclear form. Though in this case it was more of a repair than a nerf, since there are literally 100 foundry grinders that were better missions before. Now that's down to maybe 30 or 40, so that's something.

z3ndor99 · June 2013

I see why they toned it down, i mean new players and even some existing players were finding it hard but, i personally loved it! I died yes, i adapted and won. Just play on elite at least its kinda challenging.

elemberq333 · June 2013

tsurutafan01 wrote: »

The mission was obviously broken before and only the largest kind of troglodyte could claim otherwise. The problems with it had nothing to do with difficulty, they had to do with the ludicrous time investment required. If you need that explained to you, please leave the internet.

They did tone it down too far, but that's typical around here. All nerfs only come in nuclear form. Though in this case it was more of a repair than a nerf, since there are literally 100 foundry grinders that were better missions before. Now that's down to maybe 30 or 40, so that's something.

I am not saying they did not need to take a look at the mission and perhaps tone it down a bit. However the way it is now it is the easiest mission there is in the entire Romulan storyline and that is a shame because it should be the most difficult because its the climax of the story.

The way it is now you don't need to take one shot at the command ship or blow up any ships at all. Just remain cloaked through all the incoming waves, hit the objectives when prompted to so the next wave comes in, and wait until your allies take out all the ships and even take out the command ship. No need for you, the player, to do anything at all to defend New Romulas other then go there and wait for the victory to be announced.

aftershockofcorm · June 2013

elemberq333 wrote: »

I am not saying they did not need to take a look at the mission and perhaps tone it down a bit. However the way it is now it is the easiest mission there is in the entire Romulan storyline and that is a shame because it should be the most difficult because its the climax of the story.

The way it is now you don't need to take one shot at the command ship or blow up any ships at all. Just remain cloaked through all the incoming waves, hit the objectives when prompted to so the next wave comes in, and wait until your allies take out all the ships and even take out the command ship. No need for you, the player, to do anything at all to defend New Romulas other then go there and wait for the victory to be announced.

I did this before they fixed it.

gefjon · June 2013

I was having trouble getting into this mission just before they 'fixed' it.

Then I resolved that and started the mission, expecting it to take several hours (with many deaths) and was amazed when it proved so easy.

After the incubator part of the mission, this was far too easy as the last part of the arc.

Shame really.

seitei1 · June 2013

Most of the fire that hit the Command Ship wasn't my own. So the allies followed the briefing and hit the Command ship. The previous version they just did whatever and got slaughtered for it, making the thing undoable thanks to weight of fire. I feel no need for complaints under these circumstances.

People are never happy.

elemberq333 · June 2013

seitei1 wrote: »

Most of the fire that hit the Command Ship wasn't my own. So the allies followed the briefing and hit the Command ship. The previous version they just did whatever and got slaughtered for it, making the thing undoable thanks to weight of fire. I feel no need for complaints under these circumstances.

People are never happy.

The thing is after completing the Romulan storyline and having this mission be the easiest one in the entire story, there is no real feeling of accomplishment when you achieve victory and that is the part, for me, that seems to be a real shame.

Just a note to those posting in this thread, I got the missions mixed up when I posted this and the title of this thread should have read...

"Devils Choice mission now way to easy"

The Last Stand mission has not been altered in any way and is still just as difficult and lengthy as it was before, which I see as a good thing because there are still some difficult missions in the Romulan storyline.

mikoto8472 · June 2013

No complaints here about that change so that its easier in normal mode.

That's why we have difficulty level settings.

onyxheart1 · June 2013

i played it before they fixed it, it was supremely difficult and i did die and respawn multiple times. I have a new character i'm leveling so i'll find out how much it's been nerfed.

i will say it did need nerfing, i'm a veteran player, i know how to use shield facings, time my cloak between enemy torp volleys, and i was still getting completely owned by the heavy Elachi ships. i had to wait in cloak and sit on the peripheral just to capitalize on my few invulnerable allied ships taking one of the escorts down a bit so i could take it out, then hope the dreadnoughts didn't get me. It took me well over an hour just for that final battle, nearly 2 hours for the mission as a whole.

So yes, the mission did need it in my opinion, it may have been too heavily nerfed idk, i'll find out later when i play it again.

kalvorax · June 2013

ugg -_-...they should have just split it into TWO missions instead of conjoining them into one....i would LOVE to do the defense of new romulus on Elite....but I DO NOT want to have to battle through the station ground on elite..that is suicide with under equipped boffs and player.

zdfx19 · June 2013

Let's be honest. Gaming is more casual than hard core now and most players really hate having their avatar die on screen. It makes them feel like they lost. It's more about the play experience and having fun than proving your Mr. L337. Yet to do so you still need some challenge right? So, I think STO would really benefit from a "ship disabled" mechanic that can knock you out of the fight for awhile but allow you to recover and continue without being blown up and respawning. This can be used to provide challenge in playing without leaving you feeling like you died and lost in reality. As a matter of fact it can leave you feeling more heroic in that you were knocked down but got back up and finished the fight. Make sense?

deadspacex64 · June 2013

tsurutafan01 wrote: »

The mission was obviously broken before and only the largest kind of troglodyte could claim otherwise. The problems with it had nothing to do with difficulty, they had to do with the ludicrous time investment required. If you need that explained to you, please leave the internet.

...

it wasn't broken, and troglodyte to you must mean someone capable of formulating a strategy, applying logic to a situation, and following through eh? no more time consuming than other missions, and less than a few.

ran through it with 2 of my roms (pre nerf hammer), zero deaths...all it required was strategy, and applying what was learned from previous encounters with the elachi. i liked the mission pre-nerf, it wasn't the typical faceroll pew pew fest every other mission is.

which was the problem for people who can't think i suppose.

i outlined the strat pre nerf to a few doing the mission, and they succeeded. it wasn't hard to beat it. the final wave dreads had a huge weakness to exploit...and it seems very few even noticed it.

want those that didn't find it as hard as you to leave the internet? how about you leave eh? you casual faceroll to victory 'gamers' ruin challenging content for real gamers. i realize pwe/cryptic tend to cater to the lowest common denominator, since it garners them more players and more cash flow...but that mission they worked on, gave you a way to do it, subtle but there...and the overwhelming response to that planning was 'it's too hard nerf plz'

pathetic.

forumrako · June 2013

The mission was actually broken. It was doable, yes and didn't need a "nerf". The problem was the AI. Your allies were worthless and just died instantly making it far harder than intended, this isn't really up for debate, it's fact. The Elachi OBLITERATED the Rommies and their allies with no effort.

All it needed was just a small tweak so your allies didn't die instantly and it was fine. Unfortunately we are not blessed with problem solvers but "LETS NERF EVERYTHING!"

The problem is that basically everyone is right. It was doable and didn't need a nerf, but it was also not working as intended and made it way too difficult for players expecting a large scale battle and instead were getting a massacre that required a little bit of forethought.

TL;DR: Nerf wasn't necessary, AI fix was needed but what we got was a nerf to cater to I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY FACE!

phoenicius · June 2013

deadspacex64 wrote: »

it wasn't broken, and troglodyte to you must mean someone capable of formulating a strategy, applying logic to a situation, and following through eh? no more time consuming than other missions, and less than a few.

ran through it with 2 of my roms (pre nerf hammer), zero deaths...all it required was strategy, and applying what was learned from previous encounters with the elachi. i liked the mission pre-nerf, it wasn't the typical faceroll pew pew fest every other mission is.

which was the problem for people who can't think i suppose.

i outlined the strat pre nerf to a few doing the mission, and they succeeded. it wasn't hard to beat it. the final wave dreads had a huge weakness to exploit...and it seems very few even noticed it.

want those that didn't find it as hard as you to leave the internet? how about you leave eh? you casual faceroll to victory 'gamers' ruin challenging content for real gamers. i realize pwe/cryptic tend to cater to the lowest common denominator, since it garners them more players and more cash flow...but that mission they worked on, gave you a way to do it, subtle but there...and the overwhelming response to that planning was 'it's too hard nerf plz'

pathetic.

kinda hard to exploit that when you're getting hit through multiple sides, and disabled at the same time, really the only way to easily beat that mission before was either constant suicidal attacks on the command ship(which is ridiculous gameplay wise) or managing to somehow lure it away from the main fleet(which was pretty hard and depended somewhat on luck).

also if you think that having the ENTIRE romulan fleet get blown up in a few seconds, and have your FED/KDF allies basically be set to a constant state of repair due to the heavy damage they suffer made any sense i don't even know how to answer that.

elemberq333 · June 2013

When I started this thread I was not saying that the defense of New Romulas was working as intended. I am NOT a hard core gamer, however I do like a little bit of a challenge especially in the mission that is the climax to a long string of missions like the Romulan expansion gave us in STO.

The way Cryptic nerfed Devils Choice the defense of New Romulas, makes it so there is ZERO challenge and quite frankly all that shows me is this development team has no idea how to tweak a mission other then to nerf it so bad it is now the easiest mission in the entire Romulan storyline.

There is a whole host of things they could have done...

Simply making it so the ally ships did not take so much damage would have been far better then making it so you, the player, does not even have to engage the Command Ship to achieve victory. That type of fix shows me that this development team has no backbone about making a mission like this be a challenge, and instead all they do is nerf it so much that all the complaints go away and now everything is perfect.

There are so many things they could have done to tweak this mission so it was still a challenge and not a mission that you can win while watching an episode of Star Trek on TV at the same time, because now that's exactly what it is...:rolleyes:

southernskies · June 2013

I didn't get up to this mission until after they changed it... its bad enough now.

Sci/D'Deredix approx L36 at the time and it took me nearly two hours of grinding to work through the combat on Normal.
45 minutes for the first wave (2 deaths), thinking "finally done... next wave should be easier"... it wasn't. ~40 minutes for the second wave (no deaths) and then another ~40 minutes for the third wave.

Started playing around 10.30pm and didn't finish until after 1am. The episodes are normally more managable than that, and for the time investment I'd already made I just had to grind through (no save points). Really cut into my sleep time as I had work the next day.

There is no way I'll be replaying this mission unless I'm desperate. I don't mind a mission being hard, but the time investment was no fun at all.

gavinruneblade · June 2013

elemberq333 wrote: »

The way Cryptic nerfed Devils Choice the defense of New Romulas, makes it so there is ZERO challenge and quite frankly all that shows me is this development team has no idea how to tweak a mission other then to nerf it so bad it is now the easiest mission in the entire Romulan storyline.

Hyperbole much or do you just enjoy lying to make your point? There's a few missions that are just talking with no combat.

Also try sitting out waves one and two. Your allies won't win those for you. This is still far from being the easiest mission.

I personally feel that the Helix is the easiest of the ones that includes combat.

And quite honestly I found this a very fun mission post change. None of the other fleet-battle missions (end of The 2800, Sela's Capture, the earlier fight with Hakeev's borgified ship) have waves. This one is more than just killing the command ship. You can ignore or gloss over that bit if you like, but doesn't make it any less true.

There's still a mission here, it's now fun where before it was grind. Grind is not the same as a challenge. Also it is now pretty much perfectly in line with the trope. When the cavalry charge in, the fight ends almost immediately in every genre in every movie. that's the whole point of having them charge in.

Think about the siege in the climax of season 2 of Game of Thrones. They didn't show a big drawn out fight between Twin's forces and Stannis. Tyrian held the line, the cavalry showed up, boom fight is over. Or when Aragorn showed up with the army of ghosts at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields. Boom, fight over in moments. If you want I can go and get you a good dozen more examples of this from various bits of literature.

tl/dr
It's not the easiest, go back and play Helix then try that claim again.
Enjoy waves 1 and 2 and pretend 3 is a cutscene

Last Stand Mission now WAY to easy...such a shame

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