I just got the DD and I must say I am rather impressed by it. It turns like it should and boy can the thing tank with just common gear, and I am using mostly fluff universal consoles. It has an identical turn rate to the Bortasqu if I recall so fly it like one and you should be fine, plus it has the added goodie of a battlecloak which can allow for some interesting combinations.
I'm certainly having my Reman Science officer flying the Retrofit when he hits endgame.
There are definite ways on making slow ships maneuver better, as you said. The funny part with all the complaints is that LOR actually makes that task far, far, FAR easier than it ever was before.
The problem really isn't the D'Deridex itself, even the Commander level one.
The problem I discovered when trying to help people is that players absolutely refuse to adapt, change anything. They refuse to even buy a single, cheap RCS console that costs 20k EC on the Exchange, or not bother with the several instances the Romulan Campaign REWARDS players with RCS Consoles.
To make the D'Deridex handle better is ridiculously easy, most especially with the RCS / turn rate buffing fixes due to LOR.
The problem is players trying the ship without any adjustment whatsoever, become shocked, and complain on Zone chat and never try to learn how to make something work better. I've wasted enough time giving pointers to make the ship function better so that the player can easily proceed to the next rank and different ships. I've wasted enough time with players that absolutely refuse to alter anything. When I suggested to one idiot to go buy an RCS Console off the exchange for 20k EC, he was outraged and b**ched, "Why should I have to buy something to make this ship better?"
:rolleyes:
Never mind he probably deleted his Mission Reward RCS consoles long ago.
I've taken my Romulan ENG's Cmdr level D'Deridex all the way to Lv 50. I didn't bother switching to the next tier of Flying Romulan Genital Ships. I had the D'Deridex fitted, and functioning just fine. When I took the character to 50, I was impressed with the ship enough that I got the Fleet D'Deridex.
Again, the problem isn't the D'Deridex, esp. the T5 variants. The problem are fools that refuse to learn and adapt. They're the ones that are trying to fit a star shaped puzzle piece into a square shaped one, and trying to hammer it in with their face, and wonder why it's not working.
I have to agree, too many escort players in this game. I used to be one of them, now only one character that I rarely use (it's a Fed side character go figure) uses an escort. All others use cruisers of some sort, and I love it. As a KDF player you really have to be a cruiser Captain as it's our only strong point due to the vast advantage Fed ships have over the KDF. BOP outdated, Raptor screwed up pivot point and no 5 tac console ship, so a lot of KDF players know how to use a cruiser thanks to the Bortasqu.
Cryptic really needs to move away from the escort and DPS focused gameplay they have here and focus more on science ships and cruisers, tanking, drawing aggro and crowd control.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Couldn't agree more. The current D'Deridex is horrendous and UNACCEPTABLE!
I did some balancing of my own and some research on the game's itemization budget for ship setups, and this is the ONLY ACCEPTABLE SETUP that the D'Deridex can have (imo):
ANYTHING ELSE IS UNACCEPTABLE! I've crunched the numbers. I've looked at the other ships in the game. And the layout I present here is the only layout that works for the D'Deridex.
It's also cannon. If you watch Sacrifice of Angels or really ANY of DS9's last season, you'll see the D'Deridex PWNing the heck out of the combined forces of the Cardassians and the Dominion. Which is why the above setup is the ONLY setup that can work for the most iconic, most awesomest, most bestest, most popularity Romulan ship ever created.
If all of you are upset with the D'D, I can't wait to hear the crying when they put in the much demanded Scimitar. That thing is going to turn like a pregnant yak.
Still going on about this? Like I said somewhere else, it makes me laugh because some people don't have the skill to fly slower turning ships so they automatically say the ship sucks.
Just because you can't handle something that doesn't have double digit turning doesn't mean it sucks.
I don't think I'll have many problems with the D'D honestly. I prefer cruisers on my Federation character. With the right setup engi/cruisers can be absolute beasts.
You do realize Snoggymack was being sarcastic. That is the exact stats the Jemhadar attack ship gets. He was just trying to point out the absurdity of this discussion on how everyone thinks a ship needs to be an escort or it sucks.
The D'Deridex is just fine, might be a little OP. I am having no problems using DHC on it in PVP and PVE and frequently top in dps. Using the sci consoles to increase plasma and particle genrator damage helps a lot to bring this 3 tac console ships dps in line enough with escorts, it just needs some practice, skill and the right build to pilot a big ship.
I'm not a fan of the Double D, I just don't like the design, but it works fine if you know what you are doing, it's a huge TRIBBLE cruiser and it's gonna fly like one, but if you use it right it's a nasty piece of work. Playing Romulan is a bit different than the other factions where ships are concerned. I do hope that they eventually increase the variety of classes available as time goes on because the current arrangement almost seems like a gimmick to sell repec tokens.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Oh, 'H' 'E' double hockey sticks..yeah. That was exactly MY reaction.
Even with a console to increase the turn rate and the skill that increases turn rate (maxed) - I have been in bathtubs that were more maneuverable. Definitely NOT the time to add cannons - with their >extremely< limited firing arcs. I know from experience. Didn't get blown up - but did take 90 minutes for one battle.
It does not help that the larger ships are <generally> a lot less nimble. The D'd takes that to a whole new level of lame. You might as well strip the engines, turn them into small starbases and tow them wherever you want them to go.
Still going on about this? Like I said somewhere else, it makes me laugh because some people don't have the skill to fly slower turning ships so they automatically say the ship sucks.
Just because you can't handle something that doesn't have double digit turning doesn't mean it sucks.
Or here is an idea, why not actually take time to learn the ship instead of giving up already?
If I can use DHC with all versions of the D'Deridex, even the level 30 version and still have stuff in my firing arc almost all the time I want it to so can anyone. I am far from the best pilot and have no problems with this ship. Just practice more and spec and equip for manuverability. There is no reason any battle should take 90 min in STO. Even the defense of new romulus pre nerf was easy to solo fast and without dying in a D'Deridex.
I'm enjoying my D'd (retrofit), actually, but then again I'm used to flying big ships. With 3 beams + torp fore and aft I have good coverage, a 6 beam broadside and either a barrage of plasma torps from the front of a Breen transphasic cluster from the aft. Once I get my Romulan rep up I'll be speccing into some of that.
One thing I have learned to do with the D'D is to be flexible on what I'm targeting. If you are in a situation where you are facing down one ship, cloaking is your answer. If there are multiple ships, then just cycle targets as they come into range, or learn to tank effectively.
I agree with those who have said that just because a player is not adept with slower ships does not mean the ship itself sucks. The D'D is a fine ship in the right hands.
while i agree that the turning rate has been frustrating at times, this ship has actually been fun.
i have had to adjust my playstyle as i am not used to playing that size of ship and even though some battles have been taking longer this hasnt been the nightmare people were warning me of.
maybe its playable like the gal-x dreadnought? and by that i mean, excessive use of single canons (for the bigger arc) and turrets and hyt1, rapidfire1 and 1 or 2 torps for a high peak dmg.
i got to try that out.
/edit.
tried it out in SB24, with the regular canons, 1 torp and turrets in the back - its pretty nasty actually, shields drop like instantly, torp hit -> dead. if it doesnt kill it, next wave will. im curious how well it works in STFs and fleet actions, since theres masses of oponents with bigger shields n hull.
I love the D'D! As someone whose primary is a Fed engineer that has flown a lot of cruisers with their abysmal turn rate, the D'D is insanely maneuverable IF YOU USE THE CLOAK. So cloak the damn thing! If you do that, you can have some of the best aspects of a tactical ship and an engineering ship rolled into one, DPS and survivability, without losing maneuverability.
The D'D is generally more geared towards beam boats, but I loaded it with all dual heavy cannons in front, turrets in back, and my engineer BOFFs setup in an aux to battery fashion. Threw in cannon scatter volleys and rapid fires, and the DPS is insane. The setup was fairly cheap, so I had more than enough EC built up from selling mission drops. Cloak, get behind the enemy, uncloak, activate BOFF powers and watch the enemy melt. I was getting extremely high DPS considering my low level weapons, and was successfully tanking borg in sector invasions while dishing out more damage than many of my level 50 Fed and Klink counterparts.
I agree that it is different than the previous level Romulan ships, and it's not going to work out of the box with your previous setup. This might be bad for new players, but for someone with experience with different ship types and builds from other characters, the D'D can be a monumental force to contend with if setup right.
DD is first and foremost a Cruiser. Stop trying to use it like an Escort. If you have ever used Cruisers you will notice that it is screaming out for an Aux2Bat build.
If all of you are upset with the D'D, I can't wait to hear the crying when they put in the much demanded Scimitar. That thing is going to turn like a pregnant yak.
buy your life preservers now cause the tears will flow like rivers
This enormous fixation on turn rate stems from the DHC issue - Dual Heavy Cannons do so much damage when compared to all other weapons that anything but them is deemed useless.
Maybe the devs will fix the DHC issue, and then, things will not be as one-dimensional on the forums any more, and a ship that is not a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship will be accepted.
I like this idea , look ive been a eng and always will be so I will say as ive said many a time to tacs stay out of my cruisers and you will be fine and if you read and listen you tacs should know that your days are growing short the devs have already admitted that "they messed up and let escorts get way to tanky" (actual statement from podcast)
so I suspect while you will keep you zomg damage they are working on a way to make you pre F2p squishy as you should be
It would be nice if the D'D didn't take a whole freakin' light year to turn around.
It would be nice if players read any of the many, many posts throughout this thread and others in this subforum on how to get by the turn rate.
But reading to solve a problem is overrated I guess. If you cannot get past the problem in game by smashing harder on a key, then something must be wrong with the ship, and never the player.
This is my first post on the forums and I felt obligated to make it instead of just continuing to lurk. Now I'm going to be honest, I didn't sit here and read the whole thread so this may be addressed, and I'm not claiming to be any kind of expert when it comes to the game either. All I can do is tell you what worked for me and my advice will probably only be good for other tactical officers or people who have bought into some C-Store ships and/or are Fed-aligned.
First off, my weapon layout for my d'ridthau (c-store d'deridex for those who don't know) was two aft turrets, one aft DHC, one aft torpedo launcher and 1 fore beam array, one fore mines and one fore torp launcher (A lot of people might criticize this lay out, I don't know, I'm not big on metagaming, especially when I'm not even max level.)
Other things that might have helped me: valdore unique console (2.5% chance to heal shields for 200% of weapon damage), and point defense system which is just great for fighters and frigates, mines and torps.
Whenever I would go into combat with my d'ridthau I would use attack settings with weapons above 100, shields at or above 50, and due to skills buffs my engines/aux would be around 30, I'm not sure how relevant this is so I'm listing this anyways.
However the way I fought in my d'deridex was to turtle. Remain stationary and keep one shield facing on the enemies and keep pumping power into it, using shield heals and hull heals when needed, especially quantum absorption which is just about the only singularity power anyone should be using imo. I would do my best to keep front facing on my enemies (using evasive maneuvers/alpha strike or anything to boost turn rate when needed).
Another good strategy I would use because I had the d'ridthau console was to phase shift then cloak, turn to face enemies, remove phase shift, decloak and fire all weapons. I kept myself constantly surrounded by mines as well.
Like I said, I am by no means an expert and I really didn't do a lot of space stuff in my d'ridthau as at that point in the game I was on nimbus 3 and that's almost entirely ground mission stuff.
Though hopefully this helps, and if not...Maybe someone can tell me where I went wrong.
I miss a Ship with a Tac Commander, Tac LT. COm and 4 Tac consoles like on fed or on kdf side. Btw as an "allie" why cant i fly the VA ship of the Fed or the KDF? I can use all other of their ship by paying them with Dilithium
I'm confused. Did you totally miss the Ha'feh?
Also, you can't fly ally T5 or higher ships because a vocal group in the player base got up in arms and the devs took the suggestion.
buy your life preservers now cause the tears will flow like rivers
I like this idea , look ive been a eng and always will be so I will say as ive said many a time to tacs stay out of my cruisers and you will be fine and if you read and listen you tacs should know that your days are growing short the devs have already admitted that "they messed up and let escorts get way to tanky" (actual statement from podcast)
so I suspect while you will keep you zomg damage they are working on a way to make you pre F2p squishy as you should be
Well I am a Tac Rommie flying the Ha'aakona and I am having NO problems with the turn rate and using DHCs (I use 2, Torp , Dual Beam / Beam Array Torp, 2 Turrets).
I'm not exactly experienced on how to maximize damage etc, but I have no problems using my Big Cruiser (which is akin to the DD) and I hardly use the special unless I really do want that extra fire power or am having difficulty with a rather fast ship.
They just need to learn to battlecloak.
Sidenote: I do have the experience of being a Fed Eng.
Ouch so I got to level 30 recently and got my new D'Deridex and all, and I did a mission and I noticed a HUGE drop in performance from my Mogai. So bad that im actually going back to my level 20 ship again...
Anyone else feel like this?
You are doing it wrong. I equipped my D'deredix with an experimental build, and pretty much chewed enemies to pieces. With RCS, Auxiliary to Dampeners, and some intelligent play, I found, of all things, a single cannon build to be really efficient. They have a 180* arc, and fire off the nose.. which is why I experimented with them. They fire from canon positions (pardon the terrible pun).
I can easily get within that front arc, and CRF or CSV, it's like a chaingun of disruptor death firing off the nose. It chewed enemies to pieces.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I use RCS consoles, the two set piece from the DD that increases turn rate, Aux to Damp and intelligent use of the battle cloak which if you haven't figured out by now is essential to use in any Rom ship.
Guess what? Turn rate no longer a problem. I use a DHC layout and chew things to pieces. Alpha strike things to death, use battlecloak to get in a position to chew up another ship and before you know it the only thing left is debris around you.
I agree that I wish the inertia and turn rate was slightly higher but there are definitely ways to make the DD turn good enough for any weapon layout.
After snagging the retrofit, and laying down the zen on the t4 refit, I have to say, the console set makes all the difference. Instead of percentage based turn increase, you get a flat number, so you aren't getting a gimped bonus from your low base. This bonus brings it in line with moat federation cruisers in handling. Not the excelsior, but it's on par with star and assault cruisers.
Comments
I'm certainly having my Reman Science officer flying the Retrofit when he hits endgame.
I have to agree, too many escort players in this game. I used to be one of them, now only one character that I rarely use (it's a Fed side character go figure) uses an escort. All others use cruisers of some sort, and I love it. As a KDF player you really have to be a cruiser Captain as it's our only strong point due to the vast advantage Fed ships have over the KDF. BOP outdated, Raptor screwed up pivot point and no 5 tac console ship, so a lot of KDF players know how to use a cruiser thanks to the Bortasqu.
Cryptic really needs to move away from the escort and DPS focused gameplay they have here and focus more on science ships and cruisers, tanking, drawing aggro and crowd control.
Levelling on elite isn't very efficient.
ye, lets make all the the rommie ship escorts.
they need a cruiser. and that hapax adv, blah.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Fleet_D'deridex_Warbird_Battle_Cruiser_Retrofit
at least a improve in turn rate would help. but completly modifing it , no
More like a planetoid lol
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Just because you can't handle something that doesn't have double digit turning doesn't mean it sucks.
You do realize Snoggymack was being sarcastic. That is the exact stats the Jemhadar attack ship gets. He was just trying to point out the absurdity of this discussion on how everyone thinks a ship needs to be an escort or it sucks.
The D'Deridex is just fine, might be a little OP. I am having no problems using DHC on it in PVP and PVE and frequently top in dps. Using the sci consoles to increase plasma and particle genrator damage helps a lot to bring this 3 tac console ships dps in line enough with escorts, it just needs some practice, skill and the right build to pilot a big ship.
Even with a console to increase the turn rate and the skill that increases turn rate (maxed) - I have been in bathtubs that were more maneuverable. Definitely NOT the time to add cannons - with their >extremely< limited firing arcs. I know from experience. Didn't get blown up - but did take 90 minutes for one battle.
It does not help that the larger ships are <generally> a lot less nimble. The D'd takes that to a whole new level of lame. You might as well strip the engines, turn them into small starbases and tow them wherever you want them to go.
this on all slow turning ships 100x ^^^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
If I can use DHC with all versions of the D'Deridex, even the level 30 version and still have stuff in my firing arc almost all the time I want it to so can anyone. I am far from the best pilot and have no problems with this ship. Just practice more and spec and equip for manuverability. There is no reason any battle should take 90 min in STO. Even the defense of new romulus pre nerf was easy to solo fast and without dying in a D'Deridex.
I agree with those who have said that just because a player is not adept with slower ships does not mean the ship itself sucks. The D'D is a fine ship in the right hands.
i have had to adjust my playstyle as i am not used to playing that size of ship and even though some battles have been taking longer this hasnt been the nightmare people were warning me of.
maybe its playable like the gal-x dreadnought? and by that i mean, excessive use of single canons (for the bigger arc) and turrets and hyt1, rapidfire1 and 1 or 2 torps for a high peak dmg.
i got to try that out.
/edit.
tried it out in SB24, with the regular canons, 1 torp and turrets in the back - its pretty nasty actually, shields drop like instantly, torp hit -> dead. if it doesnt kill it, next wave will. im curious how well it works in STFs and fleet actions, since theres masses of oponents with bigger shields n hull.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
um, a lightyear is a measurement of distance not time...
The D'D is generally more geared towards beam boats, but I loaded it with all dual heavy cannons in front, turrets in back, and my engineer BOFFs setup in an aux to battery fashion. Threw in cannon scatter volleys and rapid fires, and the DPS is insane. The setup was fairly cheap, so I had more than enough EC built up from selling mission drops. Cloak, get behind the enemy, uncloak, activate BOFF powers and watch the enemy melt. I was getting extremely high DPS considering my low level weapons, and was successfully tanking borg in sector invasions while dishing out more damage than many of my level 50 Fed and Klink counterparts.
I agree that it is different than the previous level Romulan ships, and it's not going to work out of the box with your previous setup. This might be bad for new players, but for someone with experience with different ship types and builds from other characters, the D'D can be a monumental force to contend with if setup right.
soooo true but you cant tell the tac jockeys that
buy your life preservers now cause the tears will flow like rivers
I like this idea , look ive been a eng and always will be so I will say as ive said many a time to tacs stay out of my cruisers and you will be fine and if you read and listen you tacs should know that your days are growing short the devs have already admitted that "they messed up and let escorts get way to tanky" (actual statement from podcast)
so I suspect while you will keep you zomg damage they are working on a way to make you pre F2p squishy as you should be
It would be nice if players read any of the many, many posts throughout this thread and others in this subforum on how to get by the turn rate.
But reading to solve a problem is overrated I guess. If you cannot get past the problem in game by smashing harder on a key, then something must be wrong with the ship, and never the player.
First off, my weapon layout for my d'ridthau (c-store d'deridex for those who don't know) was two aft turrets, one aft DHC, one aft torpedo launcher and 1 fore beam array, one fore mines and one fore torp launcher (A lot of people might criticize this lay out, I don't know, I'm not big on metagaming, especially when I'm not even max level.)
Other things that might have helped me: valdore unique console (2.5% chance to heal shields for 200% of weapon damage), and point defense system which is just great for fighters and frigates, mines and torps.
Whenever I would go into combat with my d'ridthau I would use attack settings with weapons above 100, shields at or above 50, and due to skills buffs my engines/aux would be around 30, I'm not sure how relevant this is so I'm listing this anyways.
However the way I fought in my d'deridex was to turtle. Remain stationary and keep one shield facing on the enemies and keep pumping power into it, using shield heals and hull heals when needed, especially quantum absorption which is just about the only singularity power anyone should be using imo. I would do my best to keep front facing on my enemies (using evasive maneuvers/alpha strike or anything to boost turn rate when needed).
Another good strategy I would use because I had the d'ridthau console was to phase shift then cloak, turn to face enemies, remove phase shift, decloak and fire all weapons. I kept myself constantly surrounded by mines as well.
Like I said, I am by no means an expert and I really didn't do a lot of space stuff in my d'ridthau as at that point in the game I was on nimbus 3 and that's almost entirely ground mission stuff.
Though hopefully this helps, and if not...Maybe someone can tell me where I went wrong.
I'm confused. Did you totally miss the Ha'feh?
Also, you can't fly ally T5 or higher ships because a vocal group in the player base got up in arms and the devs took the suggestion.
Well I am a Tac Rommie flying the Ha'aakona and I am having NO problems with the turn rate and using DHCs (I use 2, Torp , Dual Beam / Beam Array Torp, 2 Turrets).
I'm not exactly experienced on how to maximize damage etc, but I have no problems using my Big Cruiser (which is akin to the DD) and I hardly use the special unless I really do want that extra fire power or am having difficulty with a rather fast ship.
They just need to learn to battlecloak.
Sidenote: I do have the experience of being a Fed Eng.
Vice Admiral T'vix RRW Talon (Scimitar Drednought)
General S'tal IKS Q'vat (Bortasq' Battle Cruiser)
You are doing it wrong. I equipped my D'deredix with an experimental build, and pretty much chewed enemies to pieces. With RCS, Auxiliary to Dampeners, and some intelligent play, I found, of all things, a single cannon build to be really efficient. They have a 180* arc, and fire off the nose.. which is why I experimented with them. They fire from canon positions (pardon the terrible pun).
I can easily get within that front arc, and CRF or CSV, it's like a chaingun of disruptor death firing off the nose. It chewed enemies to pieces.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Guess what? Turn rate no longer a problem. I use a DHC layout and chew things to pieces. Alpha strike things to death, use battlecloak to get in a position to chew up another ship and before you know it the only thing left is debris around you.
I agree that I wish the inertia and turn rate was slightly higher but there are definitely ways to make the DD turn good enough for any weapon layout.
Forgot to add: I'm a sci officer to boot.