test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser as a Surrogate Science Vessel?
miri2
Member Posts: 112 Arc User
So, I've been flying a Varanus Support Vessel with my KDF sci for quite some time now, and as much fun as it is to play underdog with it, I'm considering looking into other possibilities to get my science fix.
I noticed that the Adapted Battlecruiser has the ability to manifest the same BOff load-out as my Varanus, and a very close spread of console slots, and that got me thinking.
Has anyone here tried using the Adapted Battlecruiser as a sort of heavy-duty science vessel? If not, anyone have any impressions on whether it would work for the job?
It's got the same aux bonus as a Varanus, a shield power bonus, a better shield multiplier, and nearly twice as much hull, but looks like it turns a little slower and lacks subsystem targeting, which looks to me to be the biggest trade-off.
I'd really like to get as many opinions as possible before I start prying open lockboxes for the lobi crystals, so thank you all in advance for your feedback!
I noticed that the Adapted Battlecruiser has the ability to manifest the same BOff load-out as my Varanus, and a very close spread of console slots, and that got me thinking.
Has anyone here tried using the Adapted Battlecruiser as a sort of heavy-duty science vessel? If not, anyone have any impressions on whether it would work for the job?
It's got the same aux bonus as a Varanus, a shield power bonus, a better shield multiplier, and nearly twice as much hull, but looks like it turns a little slower and lacks subsystem targeting, which looks to me to be the biggest trade-off.
I'd really like to get as many opinions as possible before I start prying open lockboxes for the lobi crystals, so thank you all in advance for your feedback!
True success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm.
-- Winston Churchill
-- Winston Churchill
Post edited by miri2 on
0
Comments
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=674011
I can understand your situation, I am in the same boat. My science runs the Kar'Fi which is a great ship but not really a true science ship, so she is rarely used. If I wanted to run a pure DSP build, I would just play my tactical.
Best of luck with whatever choice you make though the amount of money you're going to throw into those boxes really isn't worth it for the ship, no ship really is worth what 200 lock box keys?
4 Lobi per box X 200 boxes = 800 Lobi
1125 Zen per 10 pack of keys means you'll need to spend 22,500 Zen if I've done my maths right.
It'll probably be a while before Cryptic releases a T5 Klingon ship that can science as well as a Varanus*, so I'm willing to sink a stupid amount of zen into picking up a ship... if it's worth using for the job I want it to do*.
Also, it's not a Klingon ship-- which is good, since my KDF character can't stand Klingons. Has something to do with that whole "conquest of the Hegemony" thing...*
*: After all, Cryptic has three factions to work on now, one of whom has fewer end-game ships than even the KDF! Also, is probably more popular for the time being.
*: Just the same, if I do try this and the first 10-pack doesn't yield more than 6 lobi per box, I'll be abandoning the whole process then and there... and then selling the resulting pile of unwanted consumables on the Exchange as some sort of meager consolation prize. :P
*: And, for added points, I kinda' like how the Adapted Battlecruiser looks. It's ugly in a good way, and, unlike the Adapted Destroyer, it doesn't look like a wanna-be Tyranid. Well, not as much, anyway.:P
-- Winston Churchill
Nouveau riche LTS member
If you're hoping to maybe get the Destroyer on your way to the Battlecruiser I would say don't bother, I made that mistake when I was trying for the Recluse when it was launched, hoping for the Orb Weaver console to put on it. Got up to 800 lobi and never got a Orb Weaver...
Unfortunately, I don't know whether the Adapted Battlecruiser is even worth using for the job I want it to do: acting as a high-resilience science vessel-- a sort-of upgrade for my Varanus.
Is that even a role the Adapted Battlecruiser can proficiently fill? Is the drop in turn rate and removal of subsystem targeting cause it fall flat on it face the second I try? Or is there some other pitfall I'm missing?
-- Winston Churchill
Personally, I'd go with the Tal ship. Overall, you can probably do more direct damage with that one while hitting with science powers as well, and I prefer to go the route of science powers being the insult to my weapons injury. Alternately, if you play healer, this could well be a tripple threat, being able to tank, heal, and do damage thanks to its universal BOFF slots and aux to weapons power transfers. Again, just my opinion.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Several Sci abilities, including sub-nuc, got their arcs changed to a nice and wide 135 degrees, so the turnrate is less of an issue than it would've been pre-LoR as far as Sci abilities go (not all changed, you should check what you use regularly for their arcs). Also, how Skills and consoles affect turnrate was changed with LoR, and with a RCS and a Tachokinetic Converter I can line up DHCs on my Kar'fi (same turnrate as the TSABC) in events where it wasn't viable before.
The innate Sub-System Targeting never really did that much for me, since it's only rank I. I don't bother with it on my Vesta, equipping it with all cannons/turrets instead, and I don't miss it much. Unless you can stack Flow Caps deep enough to drain 50 power, it does little to NPCs.
There was a thread not long ago praising their TSABC as Sci ship for KDF, so you're not the first to think of it in such a light. Edit: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=712631
As far as the subsystem targeting goes, it seems to make a difference for me, since I run a hybrid heal-boat/drain-boat build with my Varanus right now. It's a reaction to my realization that no matter how hard I try, nothing's going to make 4 beam arrays and a cutting beam a viable threat on a ship with only two tactical powers.
Oddly enough, the innate subsystem targeting has made it so I can actually hurt things occasionally by dumping their shield power and boosting my weapons power to 125 with EPtW 1, ES 3, and a base 70 power setting.
But I don't have any real way of tracking what how well that works, so who knows. *Shrugs.*
-- Winston Churchill
Well look at it this way, you trade your SST and some turning for two weapon slots and 10k hull. You can give the ship a Ensign Tac and give it target shields I if you want to.
Good point, on a drain build, it does help. However, without stacking the cooldown DOffs the cooldown is so long that most stuff won't be available when you need it. That was the main problem I had with it when I ran Polarons/Polarized Disruptor on my DSSV/MDSSV for drain. Nothing like targeting the shields of a Gate, since thats the only that wasn't on cooldown.
I also remember struggling to make my Sci ship a viable threat to contribute to the team, it was so bad that I ended up putting my Fed Sci in an escort until the Vesta came out and let me have a decent measure of DPS to go with Science. The extra DPS from the two weapon slots, and if you're doing slower content (STFs), the ability to take cannons should be a big help.
I have one still in the box and am still pondering if I should unpack it onto my sci rom or kdf engy main toon.
Making it a sci build though limits it's engy boffs slots so I'm thinking I'll use it on my main kdf engy toon for the extra heal/resists engy provides. (my preferred play style)
Doing so forces me to need it to be a tanky build (captain specced into threat), so I'm thinking feedback pulse 3, APD1, GW1, TR2 or another GW1 or scramble sensors 2. The rest for heals/resists.
And with good helpings of hull and shield HP it should assist with my tanky tendencies, whilst giving me the opportunity to mess with sci skills.
Being specced into flow caps and partcle gens seems like it'll help with the new console it comes with and my intended sci skill choices.
If all else fails I can switch it to an engy or tac COM slot for an even different experience.
With an ensign uni slot, consider using it for a tac beam target ability.
Also, 4 beams? Rock it with 6 beams, plus kinetic beam and a torp.
Consider putting in Tac team 1, Attack pattern beta 1 and either a target subsystem, beam overload or FAW.
On top of that, if you use the romulan torp, experimental beam and zero point console, you get hyper flux, which is essentially another attack pattern beta.
And as the experimental beam pulls 0 power, it'll actually boost your dps output due to less power drain when firing.
This is my current build, which works alright in testing. While originally I was using target shields 1x2 in place of the BFAW, I've swapped over to FAW to deal with persistent spam issues, especially in pvp. Now, yes, this is on my fed, but the build is doable regardless of faction. That engine is actually the adapted MACO (ie: the KHG mk 12 engine).
My captain is an engineer (joined trill, if you were wondering), with all the space traits + the helmsman trait which I nabbed off the exchange for 10 mill (it's gone back up to 15 mill now).
The weird looking console in the far right engineering slot is the nukara converter- originally that slot held another armor console.
Additionally, the APO1 is an experiment- previously I was using dispersal pattern beta 2, with the tractor mines. Without it, I'm finding that they die to NPC or player attention too easily- having only three mines rather than 6 in a cluster. More importantly, three mines isn't enough tractor power to stop your average player, but six is. So I may go back.
Alternatively, I'm entertaining the idea of swapping over to tetryons, possibly the new refracting tetryons once I hit max tier in tholian rep- and probably just phased or fleet tetryons in the meantime once I get the mines.
in tribble testing, the mines are absolutely hilarious, so I'm pretty interested in trying them with the dispersal pattern- and the two piece is a +tetryon damage boost pretty much identical to the Jem'hadar's polaron boost. In the event I shift over to that, I'd probably replace my deflector/shield with either the omega (for extra shield damage), or possibly some variant of KHG engine, KHG (deflector or shields), and a piece from another set to round things out. If I did that, I'd swap the cluster torpedoes for a 'Peng, to benefit from the KHG 2 piece- not to mention that the KHG 2 piece gives like +8 aux power, which translates to more power to weapons via the warpcore, so that's a solid option.
Unfortunately you're likely going to have to wait a few lockboxes to get the regent wide angle torpedo, otherwise i'd suggest grabbing that.
Another possible option, of course, is to invest in plasma- replacing the fleet polarons with fleet plasma or rom plasma arrays + the experimental plasma array. Replace the cluster with the rom torpedo, and find room for the zero point module (perhaps dropping the borg console and the cutting beam? idk).
I haven't finished rom rep yet myself due to mark stalling, but the ship's got an ideal layout to make beam focus work, so it's definitely got some potential there.
Alternatively, you don't *have* to go tac focused- I've seen a very zippy cmdr engineering build out there, utilizing eject warp plasma 3, embassy consoles, and other boosts to max out the plasma burn damage.
only on a tactical toon,but i hope you still have something about my experience with them.
the ts destroyer is compareble with the breen ship,its a cruiser/escort hybrid.
the hull is strong enough to take a few hits,because the base hull is more compareble to a cruiser then to an escort.
it got 4/3 weapon slots.
the turn rate is just enough to use cannons on it,but beams are maybe better,depending if you use a rcs/tachyokinetic console, with 1 of those equipped, dhc's are no problem.
the 4 tactical slots are good to max out youre damage,
it got 3 engineering console's,aswell as 3 science console's.
giving you enough space to enhance youre tanking or science skills.
the bridge officers are variable
you have a lt cmdr science, a commander tactical, an ensign tactical and 2 lt universal slots.
going with the minuim for engineering, you can have both a lt cmdr and lt science active.
it got the adapted borg warpcore,aswell as the shrapnell launcher, the shrapnell is nice for the 2/3 or 3/3 set, but it got to low dps and to long cooldown to be effectieve.
2/3 set, basicly always on youre ship:
+2% hull regen each 60 seconds,+20 shield regeneration,combine this with the 2/3 borg set, and youre almost selfhealing.
the adapted cruiser is a cruiser,meaning 4/4 weapons and a big turn rate,this can also be enhanced with rcs console's,but that will take 1 or 2 slots,wich is much to make a ship turn. this also make's that you have more difficulty with applying science skills, because they are in a smaller targeting arc.
beams is the only way to go with it.
the console's,being 4/3/3 , give's you more room to use engineering console's.
it has the posebility to be a good tanker.
lt tac, lt cmdr science, lt engineer cmdr universal ( !) and ensign universal give's you much room to play with,as a science officer, you can get cmdr science and lt cmdr,but this will give you a ensign and lt tac only, meaning 2x tt 1 and a offensive power, the bare minium.
the cruiser come's with the same warpcore,and a special console, giving you a abbility to make enemy's target each other for 5 seconds, doing 100 electral damage p/s, electral damage is a type for which there are no hull plating and/or shield ressistance,making it "treu" damage.
this also give's the passive heal, 2/3 set.
i would reccomend using the destroyer, the turn rate is better, and it can load cannons,the turn rate is needed for youre science skills, and using a polaron weapons, dhc's, can be a nice drain/disable build, also use a leech console.
you will loose some science boff skills, but you gain more offensive power,aswell as a better and faster way to apply youre science skills.
they both have sensor analysis, and cloack, normal cloack like most klingon ships.
the adapted cruiser doesnt have subsystem targeting, making another point to go for the destroyer.
i know money can be a problem, but try to get both, for the following reason:
use the thal shiar destroyer, because the explanation stated above, and use all 3 console's together on the destroyer, 3/3 set is great for science officers.
3/3 bonus:
most science skills, like grav well/tractor beam/tykens rift/etc etc. do also 135 radiation damage each second, this penetrate shields, and for radiation damage there is also no armor.
this will make youre science skills much better,doing more damage.
apply a grav well with the correct doff active, and if it procs 2/3 grav wells, you apply the 3/3 effect on a giant part of the map, affecting much enemy's.
so far my experience wiht it, i must say destroyer with 3/3 set is better,it may tank a little less,and have less sci abbility's, it does turn better and has more offensive power.
good luck!
Weapons
Forward -
1 Dual beam bank, 1 Beam array, 1 Dual heavy Cannon - 1 Plasma Torp ( currently Mk XII fleet ACCx2 DMGx2
Aft
2 beam arrays, 1 Turret 1 Tractor beam mine launcher (quest reward)
Borg mkx Deflector Plasma resist shield and mx vi efffecient engines
Consoles
Eng
Neutronium armor mx x blue
1 ablative armor mx x blue
1 universal console rom faction weapon set console
1 universal console nanite thingie
Sci
shield cap console mx x blue
shield regen console mx x blue
plasmonic leech
Tact
2 plasma infusers mk x blue
1 shrapnel torp launcher
Bridge officers (I'll edit post as I can not remember exactly which skills are where)
1 Science Borg Bridge officers
1 Science Borg Bridge officer
1 Tactical Borg Bridge officer
1 Engineer Borg Bridge officer
1 Engineer Android Bridge Officer
What I am doing with this ship
I was looking to do something different with this ship and came up with the following role - With having 2 Borg science bridge officers and the built in abilities of the ship and the console set I tried out a predominently drain build on this whilst maintaining a decent tank and doing moderate dps.
This build as mentioned above works for my playstyle and works very well for it's intended purpose. Strip shield and power from the target(s)
Main abilities are Tykens Rift, tachyon beam, Energy siphon and charged particle burst.
Additional console sets to work with this build-
3 piece borg set (shield - deflector - Engines)
3 piece Romulan Weapon set (console - torp and plasma beam array)
full upgrade to romulan reputation plasma weapons
possibly 1 or 2 Embassy consoles
When the server goes back online I'll put my bo layout as soon as possible
Thanks for reading
Playing STO since Beta
Leader of S-P-Q-R
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
i always check the stats when in space, eart spacedock system.
it seems low, but there is no armor aviable to reduce it so its for 10 seconds long treu damage, wich make's it quite much,10x 135 = 1350 treu shield bypassing damage,on each science skill applyd at the target. also, if you use a gravity well and a tractor beam on them it apply's 2 time's XD
as far as i know it doesnt get affected by anything,but if you manage to ontain the 3/3 set, you will see thats far from low dps.